So do those repugnances extend to Golduck for doing one better, taking Rayquaza's "exclusive" ability and renaming it in its favor? Honestly, nothing is exclusive in Pokemon. Anything that was exclusive in RBY, is no longer exclusive, same with most things in GSC.
-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 7a
- Thread starter Hyra
- Start date
- Status
Don't forget this is Pokemon, where canons and scythes are part of a body. This guy isn't a mummy of a Pokemon, it's rather a mummy-Pokemon. That means it didn't get mummified at a point, but always had the bandages. So it might not look like skin, but it is in fact the outer layer of his body and therefor his skin.
Oh and I think a final poll would be fair, just like we did with the art. But picking Air Lock and moving on isn't all that unreasonable.
It is not STRICTLY BETTER. By that logic any ability would be better than no ability. Let's give it Flame Body. Let's give it Wonder Guard. Let's give it Volt Absorb. No. We are designing a Pokemon here, not a random set of abilities, moves and stats. People who voted No Ability felt that, for whatever reason, this Pokemon will be better designed with with just Shed Skin as it's only option, rather than having one of the other abilities listed. It's the reason the majority of official Pokemon only have one ability. The point that "if you don't like the second ability option you don't have to use it" is moot because this isn't the "How do you want to play this Pokemon?" project, rather the "Create a Pokemon" project. I feel, and many other people apparently feel, that giving this Pokemon no other ability is strictly better Pokemon design. Our votes shouldn't count less because they don't agree with yours.
Bolded for emphasis, since that is basically the point I was trying to make.
From a mechanical choice standpoint, I don't think anyone can argue against the fact that an ability is strictly better than no ability. If you think Shed Skin is the best mechanical ability, you can use it regardless of what this poll decides. If I think that Shed Skin is the worst ability in the game, I have no choice but to use it if there is no other ability. Thus, from a mechanical choice perspective, Air Lock is strictly better than No Ability.
From a mechanical efficiency standpoint, Air Lock is strictly better than No Ability as long as it is a weaker option than Shed Skin. I don't think anyone here is actually saying that Air Lock is broken, since it is extremely situational. Also, it allows a player to remove opposing whether effects without having to start a new one, which is currently impossible in the game. In terms of power, I repeat that Air Lock is not a broken ability. And if it proves to be broken, it will be removed! Thus, from a mechanical efficiency standpoint, Air Lock is strictly better than No Ability.
From a flavour standpoint, Air Lock is strictly better than No Ability if it fits in terms of flavour. A mummy is trapped in a Tomb for thousands of years with no fresh air at all. The air has been locked out of the mummy's life, hence Air Lock. Admittedly, this standpoint is a lot harder to prove that Air Lock is strictly better than No Ability, but the fact remains that an ability that fits should be chosen over a lack of ability.
---
In terms of assertion that "majority of official Pokemon only have one ability", 19 of the 50 OU Pokemon have a second ability. While not a majority, it is almost 40% of the top 50 used Pokemon that have a second ability.
No, Air Lock is not a strictly better choice from a mechanical standpoint. Some people may feel Air Lock would be overpowering/too centralizing on this Pokemon, and it is their right to have their opinion and vote as such. Better, here means better design, not more powerful. People may not want an OU viable Pokemon that can remove weather. Again, read my first post on the issue of "If you don't like the ability you don't have to use it." That is not a valid argument, as we are trying to make well designed Pokemon, and if somebody feels that a second ability lessens the Pokemon's design, they have every right to vote No Ability.
Regardless, this isn't just a poll of mechanics, but of flavor as well. Flavor is just as important as mechanics, if not more important, when making a well designed Pokemon, else we end up with a Ice/Dragon Doughnut Pokemon with Flame Body and Spell Tag as it's abilities with a stat distribution of 150/150/150/150/150/150, and learns every move in the game except lick. For flavor, again, many people have stated they don't feel Air Lock fits the flavor of this Pokemon. It is their opinion. Because it disagrees with yours does not make it invalid.
I'm not trying to invalidate your vote; don't try to invalidate mine. If you disagree with it, fine. But don't say all the No Ability votes are strictly inferior to the Air Lock votes. Every vote is equal.
As for the comment on the number of Pokemon that have 2 abilities, not only have you taken it out of the context that I used it in, but you added entirely new context about OU pokemon. I am talking about good Pokemon design regardless of tiers; my point was to illustrate many Pokemon are well designed with one ability, and having one ability fits those Pokemon. If having two abilities is strictly better design than having one, every Pokemon would be given two abilities. Hell, why stop there, 3 is better than 2, and 4 is better than 3, 5 is better... hey, let's just give every Pokemon every ability. After all, if you don't like the abilities you don't have to use them. :P
This is the point I was intending to make before. For me, the problem with Air Lock is not the effect but the name, and thus to use Air Lock as the second trait would not for me fit the flavor of the pokemon.
Also, Slow Start would not be strictly better than no ability.
Finally, while traits like moves and abilities that were once unique have since ceased to be so as we moved from one generation to the next, we still don't have the rights to continue to decrease uniqueness. Pokemon is the intellectual product that was created with an artistic intent. Even if the people that design pokemon destroy the old boundaries they created between pokemon and decrease uniqueness, they may still continue to respect other boundaries or trends, such as the all 600 BST dragons having 4x ice weakness.
Therefore, because we don't know the intent of the creators, it would serve us best not to infringe against possible boundaries such as traits like Air Lock that are currently unique to a legendary pokemon.
Additionally, to include such a trait (that infringes on the original purposes of the designers) on one of our created pokemon would also decrease the chances of its getting produced if we ever attempt that.
This. Stop calling No Ability votes selfish -- it is an artistic decision.
Personally, I want No Ability so that it's easier to breed for Shed Skin. ._.
I could not agree more with this post.
Two abilities are not better than one. We've already had an extremely broken ability thought up by the Create-A-Pokemon crew (Mountaineer), I don't think we need another one.
Mm, I would like a poll (b), between No Ability and Air Lock.
Yeah Gamefreak is going to disagree, especially if you expect to submit this thing realistically. Air Lock is a Legendary ability, unique to only Rayquaza. GF isn't going to take something seriously with a legendary-only ability. Even if it's only by name alone, I think it's silly to expect anyone to take a fan-made poke with a Legend unique ability seriously. They gave rayquaza that ability for obvious reasons.
Honestly, it's posts like these that make me want to give up on the CaP project all together. Using ridiculous arguments that don't apply at all is hardly a way to create a new Pokemon, and it just seems this project is full of people who put this little thought into their posts.
What are you base brokenness of mountaineer on?Brokenness implies Mountaineer is making it unstoppable which is not the case so far.
Wasn't Meteoric Swarm, AKA Draco Meteor made from a "create a move" contest?
Alright, let me elaborate. Firstly, I've probably used the word broken out of context.
Okay, I wouldn't mind this thing getting two abilities. I just feel Shed Skin fits this thing much, much more than any of the other abilities listed. Sure, I wouldn't mind any of the other abilities, just as long as this thing does not get Air Lock. The only not Uber pokemon to recieve this ability is Golduck, who does not have the capabilites to use this ability properly in standard play. "Mummy" however, has the defensive capabilities to properly use this ability. Hail teams? Gone. Sandstorm teams? Gone. This thing would mean the end of weather teams, lessening the variation in our Metagame even further.
As for Mountaineer, as soon as the typing was chosen for Syclant early on, people picked up on the x4 Stealth Rock weakness. Mountaineer didn't seem like a fitting ability to me, just a way to bypass the SR weakness, and make Syclant even more powerful than he already was.
I apologise for my previous post, as it didn't explain my opinion much at all, rather just an annoyed rant at the people voting Air Lock.
Okay, I wouldn't mind this thing getting two abilities. I just feel Shed Skin fits this thing much, much more than any of the other abilities listed. Sure, I wouldn't mind any of the other abilities, just as long as this thing does not get Air Lock. The only not Uber pokemon to recieve this ability is Golduck, who does not have the capabilites to use this ability properly in standard play. "Mummy" however, has the defensive capabilities to properly use this ability. Hail teams? Gone. Sandstorm teams? Gone. This thing would mean the end of weather teams, lessening the variation in our Metagame even further.
As for Mountaineer, as soon as the typing was chosen for Syclant early on, people picked up on the x4 Stealth Rock weakness. Mountaineer didn't seem like a fitting ability to me, just a way to bypass the SR weakness, and make Syclant even more powerful than he already was.
I apologise for my previous post, as it didn't explain my opinion much at all, rather just an annoyed rant at the people voting Air Lock.
If that's the case, was it a Nintendo/Gamefreak sponsored event, or was it like this where people just made a move and sent it to them?
Either way, a move is vastly different from an entire Pokemon. One is a small fragment of a unit, the other is an entire unit.
My vote goes to Insomnia.
I just want to point out a few things:
* Mummy doesn't ruin Hail any more than Tar, likewise for SS and Aboma.
* Air Lock only lasts as long as Mummy is out, so all it means is that wather teams would need a Mummy counter. Not too outrageous imo.
* I would think it diversifies the metagame, as it would be the only answer to Weather that doesn't create a new Weather.
---
Overall, though, I think we really need to move on. Honestly, Hyra, being a mini-mod comes with a few duties, and I think making gut calls like this is one of them. In my opinion, make a choice, and let's not stall the process.
- Status