Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Are there any new toys for the Pikachu family to play with?

Signal Beam, so couple that with Nasty Plot and... I really feel bad for Celebi.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1476739&postcount=530 <- This has a bit more than the first page of this thread

Up until just this moment; I largely assumed that Rock resisted Bug >.<

This is why Heracross has always been a Juggernaut of OU.

 

[sims796]

@Sim-- Big Deal, I never liked Flying Barney anyway. It always annoyed me how such a cool pokemon like dragonair turned out so . . . wrong . . .

but this is the competitive thread so I'll shut up about that.

Anyway, Dragonite doesn't have enough bulk or speed (speed better really) to truly take advantage of Super Power. When you have to set up Substitute or DD in order to really be threatening, you shouldn't be using moves that lower your offensive stats.

MixMence has the speed to go on the offensive without necessarily needing to set up, and the special attack to abuse Super Power without remorse.

And? It is still a move that differents the dragon's abilities. I feel sets will be built around Dragonite's usage of Super Power. I never said Mence wouldn't like it more, but Dragonite needed a move that he could call his own. Dragonwise, that is. He lost Outrage to Mence, but gained Super Power as the only dragon to keep it, as far as I can tell. He needed that as something to make him useful. Now we'll see what unfolds.

Besides, Mence's Sp.Atk is only a few points higher. He has speed, I'll give you that.

I'm glad someone else sees him as Barney...or Baloney, if you watch Animaniacs.

 

[hinode]

Err... are we really sure about Salamence not getting Superpower just yet? Just searched the thread and didn't see Stellar checking Salamence's tutor compatibility yet. We know it doesn't have it in any of its movesets in the Battle Frontier, but that's hardly proof that it never gets it.

 

[False [old]]

He's definitely more of a Baloney. Same color and all that.

It kind of miffs me that now everyone is abandoning Dragonite, but I guess that's to be expected.

 

[Kristy Haruka]

Ampharos gets Swift. o_O That doesn't really help.. >_<

If anyone knows the tutors of these Pokemon, please tell! ^_^

Floatzel, Lapras, Rapidash, Ampharos.

Flareon and Lopunny and Delcatty, too, if possible! <3

 

[sims796]

He did. He says it isn't compatable.

 

[MegaMewtwo]

Signal Beam, so couple that with Nasty Plot and... I really feel bad for Celebi.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1476739&postcount=530 <- This has a bit more than the first page of this thread

Weird. Could be helpful on PBR Chus. Grass resists electricity and Surf, but now they have a bug move to look out for.

I've noticed a complete lack of news on Helping Hand. Any interesting new users? Any XD Pokemon rendered useless?

 

[Syberia]

XD Tangela is rendered useless thanks to Synthesis tutor.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Dragonite still has focus punch, which in my opinion, still suits it better.

Without the speed to stay in with most situations, it becomes a move to use on switches. Focus Punch is better.

Like you said though, we won't know until we see. Personally though, I don't see Dragonite's popularity boosting that much.

Though frankly, I'm don't see myself running Outrage Salamence much either. Especially with DD. Uhg. Viva Draco Meteor Mixmence! xD

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Though frankly, I'm don't see myself running Outrage Salamence much either. Especially with DD. Uhg. Viva Draco Meteor Mixmence! xD

Isn't DD Outrage one of the reasons why Rayquaza is even relevant in the uber tier (Air Lock ability being the other)?

 

[Syberia]

I see myself running a Scarf Mence, with Outrage/Meteor/EQ/Fire Blast. Though with DD, I think I'd still be more likely to run Dragon Claw.

 

[sims796]

And that's a shame, he probably won't be used more. I really feel Nite has much untapped potential, but no one will give him a chance.

Ah well. I never cared too much for Nite anyway, I'm a Flygon kind of guy. Still, I'm interested to see what these changes will do to the metagaemz.

Especially to Vileplume.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I've never played Ubers so I would not know. But I personally rather use Salamence in the early game rather than late. Resistance/Immunities + Intimidate give him lots of switch-in opportunities, while Stealth Rock hurts his overall-survivability. Because of this mentality I like to use when using Mence, taking a turn to set up DD and then locking yourself into a move that'll confuse yourself in 2-3 turns does not seem appealing.

edit: Going to agree with Syb that I think Outrage will be most viable on Scarf/Band set. Especially Scarf.

 

[MegaMewtwo]

XD Tangela is rendered useless thanks to Synthesis tutor.

I meant Helping Handers, although others would be interesting to know as well. I'd already read about Tangela though.

 

[Anti]

I'm looking forward to CB Mence with max Attack/Speed and Outrage/Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Fire Blast. STAB Outrage off of ~610 Attack will be killer. Good shot at 2HKOing max/max Cress.

 

[Syberia]

I imagine the newly-acquired Aqua Tail would also have a place on that same CB Mence.

Outrage/Aqua Tail/Fire Blast/Earthquake looks like a decent set to me. Or since Aqua Tail takes care of Heatran and Fire Blast takes care of all other Steels, perhaps Dragon Claw in that slot for those times when you don't want to lock yourself into an Outrage.

 

[Anti]

Why? The bulky grounds are hit for the same with Aqua Tail (it's 90 BP right?) as they are with Outrage. Aqua Tail only goes so well on Tyranitar 'cause they resist it's strongest STAB move.

To wear them down before Outraging? Good type coverage, at least.

What can safely switch into Outrage / Dragon Claw or Aqua Tail / Fire Blast / Earthquake CB Mence?

 

[Syberia]

Yeah, you're right. Outrage/Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Fire Blast would probably still be the best set.

I thought Aqua Tail was 100 BP.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Aquatail is most likely to take Earthquake's place on some sets. People who don't like being stuck in Earthquake will use it to deal with Heatran. My opinion anyway.

also: Too bad mence didn't get Seed Bomb. While maybe not the best move for mence, I'd personally like another way to deal with Vappy. I hate Vappy. >.>

 

[JohtoPro]

Hey looking for a check for Typhlosion. :crosses fingers for Earth Power and/or Superpower:

Don't forget Nite can always run a special set (I know lower base Sp.Atk)...acess to Bolt-Beam/Meteor/FireBlast

 

[Deck Knight]

I hate to be a burden, but I find knowing the full Tutor Move list fairly important for these pokemon:

Poliwrath, Victreebel, Rampardos, Persian, Claydol (pretty much in this order)

 

[dbolt]

I skipped the snowpoint move tutor for all of these.

I would like to know what moves my favorite poke Vileplume gets through tutors,if it not any trouble.

Vileplume: Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb

Are there any new toys for the Pikachu family to play with?

Raichu: ThunderPunch, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Rollout, Signal Beam

only signal beam and knock off

If anyone knows the tutors of these Pokemon, please tell! ^_^

Floatzel, Lapras, Rapidash, Ampharos.

Flareon and Lopunny and Delcatty, too, if possible! <3

Floatzel: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Mud-slap, Aqua Tail
Lapras: Dive, Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Ancientpower, Signal Beam
Rapidash: Bounce, Heat Wave
Ampharos: Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Outrage, Signal Beam
Flareon: Mud-slap, Superpower, Heat Wave
Lopunny: Fury Cutter, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Mud-slap, Endeavor, Bounce
Delcatty: Icy Wind, Zen Headbutt, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap, Rollout

Hey looking for a check for Typhlosion. :crosses fingers for Earth Power:

Typhlosion: Fury Cutter, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Mud-slap, Rollout, Heat Wave

I hate to be a burden, but I find knowing the full Tutor Move list fairly important for these pokemon:

Poliwrath, Victreebel, Rampardos, Persian, Claydol (pretty much in this order)

Poliwrath: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Vacuum Wave, Mud-slap
Victreebel: Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb
Rampardos: ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Mud-slap, Superpower, Iron Head, Endeavor, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power
Persian: Icy Wind, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb
Claydol: Mud-slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Zen Headbutt, Trick

and a few others i've checked too.

Abomasnow: Ice Punch, Icy Wind, Mud-slap, Outrage, Seed Bomb
Aerodactyl: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Twister, Heat Wave
Arceus: Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Mud-slap, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Earth Power, Twister, Iron Defense, Heat Wave
Aggron: Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, Mud-slap, Rollout, Superpower, Iron Head, Aqua Tail, Endeavor, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense
Alakazam: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off, Signal Beam
Ambipom: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Bounce
Arbok: Aqua Tail, Gastro Acid, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb
Ariados: Sucker Punch, Signal Beam, Bounce
Armaldo: Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense
Articuno: Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Mud-slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Twister
Azumarill: Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Mud-slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail
Bastiodon: Mud-slap, Iron Head, Outrage, Ancientpower, Earth Power, Iron Defense
Beautifly: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Signal Beam, Twister
Beedrill: Endeavor, Fury Cutter, Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off
Bellossom: Gastro Acid, Seed Bomb
Bibarel: Mud-slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail, Dive, Fury Cutter, Icy Wind
Blastoise: Mud-slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Signal Beam, Iron Defense, Dive, Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt
Blaziken: Mud-slap, Superpower, Bounce, Heat Wave, Fury Cutter, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Vacuum Wave, Knock Off
Blissey: Mud-slap, Rollout, Endeavor, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt
Breloom: Fury Cutter, ThunderPunch, Vacuum Wave, Mud-slap, Superpower, Seed Bomb

 

[Anti]

Those are great dbolt, thanks a lot!

Looks like we got confirmation of Aqua Jet/Superpower/Ice Punch Azumarill. Very cool. Outrage Arceus is going to really hurt.

Seriously not finding a safe switch in for CB Outrage/Earthquake/Fire Blast Salamence.

Could you check Machamp, Tyranitar and Zapdos?

 

[Syberia]

I'm surprised Persian doesn't get Swift, since it did in R/S/E.

I'm glad Azumarill can now have Ice Punch with Aqua Jet legally.

 

[gec]

Ooh, Superpower Blaziken sounds interesting :).