-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)
- Thread starter RBG
- Start date
Alright, so:
Victreebel doesn't get Gunk Shot, Poliwrath doesn't get Superpower, and Rampardos doesn't get Ice Punch. Blarg all around.
The only thing in Snowpoint that would interest me is Persian getting Swift. Although Icy Wind isn't as powerful as HP Ice 60, it could free up a slot for a better HP, and prevent faster pokemon, especially Scarfers, from being counters. Not too bad.
Claydol gets Trick. Now that's pretty darn interesting. Lot of potential to mine there. You could Trick an Iron Ball and then smack whatever you want with STAB EQ or Earth Power. Very, very cool.
Blissey getting Endeavor is lol.
Alakazam with Signal Beam eh? GG Celebi.
Blaziken gets Vacuum Wave, too. Bounce is rather meh, but unlike Brave Bird doesn't have that nasty recoil. Overall not a bad lot. Granted its SA isn't much better than Ape's but it could also run a mixed set better because its attack is much, much higher.
Not sure if Aggron can effectively use Superpower, Aqua Tail, or Outrage, but they do make the CB set a lot less predictable.
Thanks for all the checks dbolt.
Victreebel doesn't get Gunk Shot, Poliwrath doesn't get Superpower, and Rampardos doesn't get Ice Punch. Blarg all around.
The only thing in Snowpoint that would interest me is Persian getting Swift. Although Icy Wind isn't as powerful as HP Ice 60, it could free up a slot for a better HP, and prevent faster pokemon, especially Scarfers, from being counters. Not too bad.
Claydol gets Trick. Now that's pretty darn interesting. Lot of potential to mine there. You could Trick an Iron Ball and then smack whatever you want with STAB EQ or Earth Power. Very, very cool.
Blissey getting Endeavor is lol.
Alakazam with Signal Beam eh? GG Celebi.
Blaziken gets Vacuum Wave, too. Bounce is rather meh, but unlike Brave Bird doesn't have that nasty recoil. Overall not a bad lot. Granted its SA isn't much better than Ape's but it could also run a mixed set better because its attack is much, much higher.
Not sure if Aggron can effectively use Superpower, Aqua Tail, or Outrage, but they do make the CB set a lot less predictable.
Thanks for all the checks dbolt.
More importantly, everyone and their mothers seem to be crapping their pants simultaneously about Dive Ludicolo for some reason. I don't care for the concept personally, but has there been any confirmation?
Wait what? Since when?
edit: SUPERPOWERLESS POLIWRATH MAJOR GAY
I would also really like to know what moves Magmortar gets.
He (?) skipped the snowpoint tutor so persian might still get it (hope so)
EDIT: beaten =/
Poliwrath with Superpower was a hypothetical in my post. It wasn't confirmed yet, and I said as much. dbolt just checked and Poliwrath didn't learn it, so bummer. Which is weird considering lots of incredily random things got it.
Actually, the pattern at this point seems to be every pokemon with 110+ Base Attack gets Superpower.
My next list of requests, if dbolt or Stellar don't mind:
Walrein, Masquerain, Weavile, Hariyama, Exeggutor.
Welcome to 20 pages ago, buddy.It appears hypnosis' accuracy has been lowered to 60%:
That should strongly effect usage of Gengar, Yanmega and Bronzong to name a few.
yay for torkoal learning earthpower, TR specs.
Please say yes ;_;.
Ludicolo's physical movepool isn't bad and Seed Bomb would make it good. Something like Swords Dance/Waterfall/Seed Bomb/Ice or Thunder punch could work. I've used SD Ludicolo before but with Razor Leaf and it was ;_;.
I was researching to improve the LC metagame by finding out which tutor moves the LC Pokemon get... I wont list all... because I can just list the ones I caught ( the ones in Sinnoh Dex ) , this doesnt include the Swarm Pokemon, etc... I also couldnt catch Pokemon such as Hippopotas, but I think I'll post the left Pokemon soon.
Magby = Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Snore, Helping Hand, Uproar, Heat Wave, Mud Slap
Azurill = Icy Wind, Knock Off, Snore, Swift, Helping Hand, Uproar
Shellos = Icy Wind, Dive, Snore, AncientPower, Earth Power
Buizel = Icy Wind, Dive, Ice Punch, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap
Wooper = Icy Wind, Dive, Ice Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, AncientPower, Earth Power
Wingull = Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off, Ominous Wind,Snore,Swift,Uproar, Mud Slap, Twister
Tangela = Knock Off, Snore, Synthesis, AncientPower, Seed Bomb
Yanma = Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Signal Beam, AncientPower
Combee = Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Endeavor,
Psyduck = Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Dive, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Signal Beam, Aqua Tail, Mud Slap
Starly = Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Heat Wave, Twister, Endeavor
Budew = Snore, Synthesis, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb
Kricketune = Snore, Uproar, Mud Slap, Endeavor
Abra = Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch,Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off, Snore, Signal Beam
Bidoof = Icy Wind, Fury Cutter ( lol ), Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail
Shinx = Fury Cutter, Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Signal Beam, Mud Slap
Tentacool = Icy Wind, Knock Off , Dive, Snore
Togepi = Trick, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Uproar, Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam, Endeavor
Magikarp = Bounce !!!!!!!!!
Meditie = Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Vacuum Wave, Trick, Snore, Swift, Helping Hand, Mud Slap, Signal Beam
Geodude = Sucker Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, AncientPower, Earth Power
Rhyhorn = Icy Wind, Snore, Uproar, Spite, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail, AncientPower, Earth Power, Endeavor
Onix = Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Iron Head, AncientPower, Earth Power, Twister
Zubat = Air Cutter, Zen Headbutt, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Twister, Heat Wave
Ralts = Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Trick, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Helping Hand, Signal Beam, Mud Slap
Wurmple = Snore
Buneary = Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Helping Hand, Uproar, Mud Slap, Endeavor, Bounce
Drifloon = Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off, Trick, Sucker Punch, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Spite, Mud Slap, Rollout
Chingling = Icy Wind,Trick, Zen Headbutt , Knock Off, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Rollout, Signal Beam,
Hoothoot = Zen Headbutt, Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Swift, Mud Slap, Twister, Heat Wave
Gastly = Icy Wind, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Ominous Wind, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Uproar
Swinub = Snore, Mud Slap, Superpower, AncientPower, Earth Power, Endeavor
Goldeen = Icy Wind, Knock Off, Fury Cutter, Dive, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Bounce
Barboach = Dive, Icy Wind, Snore, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Earth Power, Bounce
Bronzor = Trick, Snore, Rollout, Signal Beam, AncientPower
Mantyke = Dive, Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Mud Slap, Bounce
Nosepass = ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Snore, Magnet Rise, Mud Slap, AncientPower, Rollout, Earth Power,Iron Defense
Pichu = Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Rollout
Scyther = Ominous Wind, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Swift
Gligar = Fury Cutter, Snore, Swift, Aqua Tail, Earth Power
Skorupi = Fury Cutter, Snore, Aqua Tail, Mud Slap
Gible = Fury Cutter, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Earth Power, Outrage, Iron Head, Twister
Houndour = Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Heat Wave
Lickytung = ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Icy Wind, Snore, Aqua Tail, Rollout, Mud Slap
Machop = ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Vacuum Wave, Snore, Helping Hand, Superpower, Mud Slap,
Croagunk = Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Vacuum Wave, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Mud Slap, Gunk Shot, Bounce
Remoraid = Dive, Icy Wind, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Bounce ( Wow... this guy got pretty good things ) !
Finneon = Icy Wind, Dive, Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Aqua Tail, Twister, Bounce
Snover = Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Snore, Synthesis, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb
Snorunt = Icy Wind, Snore, Spite, Rollout
Sneasel = Ice Punch, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Spite, Swift, Mud Slap
Magnemite = Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Rollout, Signal Beam, Iron Defense
Riolu = Fury Cutter, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Vacuum Wave, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise ( lol.. dun ask me why ), Swift, Iron Defense, Mud Slap
Duskull = Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Snore, Spite,
Porygon = Icy Wind, Trick, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Last Resort, Swift, Signal Beam
Elekid = Ice Punch, Fire Punch (lol.. no ThunderPunch for you ), Snore, Helping Hand,Swift, Magnet Rise, Uproar, Mud Slap, Signal Beam
Eevee = Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Mud Slap
Swablu = Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Outrage, Heat Wave, Twister
So I checked the moves of 58 Pokemon... this probably may not sound pretty much.. but there's kinda surprising things to notice ( Magikarp learnS Bounce ). I hope that I didnt list anything wrong.. I gave my best =o
So have fun with this!
Magby = Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Snore, Helping Hand, Uproar, Heat Wave, Mud Slap
Azurill = Icy Wind, Knock Off, Snore, Swift, Helping Hand, Uproar
Shellos = Icy Wind, Dive, Snore, AncientPower, Earth Power
Buizel = Icy Wind, Dive, Ice Punch, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap
Wooper = Icy Wind, Dive, Ice Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Aqua Tail, AncientPower, Earth Power
Wingull = Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off, Ominous Wind,Snore,Swift,Uproar, Mud Slap, Twister
Tangela = Knock Off, Snore, Synthesis, AncientPower, Seed Bomb
Yanma = Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Signal Beam, AncientPower
Combee = Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Endeavor,
Psyduck = Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Dive, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Signal Beam, Aqua Tail, Mud Slap
Starly = Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Heat Wave, Twister, Endeavor
Budew = Snore, Synthesis, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb
Kricketune = Snore, Uproar, Mud Slap, Endeavor
Abra = Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch,Zen Headbutt, Trick, Knock Off, Snore, Signal Beam
Bidoof = Icy Wind, Fury Cutter ( lol ), Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail
Shinx = Fury Cutter, Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Signal Beam, Mud Slap
Tentacool = Icy Wind, Knock Off , Dive, Snore
Togepi = Trick, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Uproar, Mud Slap, Rollout, Signal Beam, Endeavor
Magikarp = Bounce !!!!!!!!!
Meditie = Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Vacuum Wave, Trick, Snore, Swift, Helping Hand, Mud Slap, Signal Beam
Geodude = Sucker Punch, ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, AncientPower, Earth Power
Rhyhorn = Icy Wind, Snore, Uproar, Spite, Mud Slap, Rollout, Superpower, Aqua Tail, AncientPower, Earth Power, Endeavor
Onix = Snore, Mud Slap, Rollout, Iron Head, AncientPower, Earth Power, Twister
Zubat = Air Cutter, Zen Headbutt, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Twister, Heat Wave
Ralts = Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Trick, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Swift, Helping Hand, Signal Beam, Mud Slap
Wurmple = Snore
Buneary = Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Helping Hand, Uproar, Mud Slap, Endeavor, Bounce
Drifloon = Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Knock Off, Trick, Sucker Punch, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Spite, Mud Slap, Rollout
Chingling = Icy Wind,Trick, Zen Headbutt , Knock Off, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Rollout, Signal Beam,
Hoothoot = Zen Headbutt, Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Swift, Mud Slap, Twister, Heat Wave
Gastly = Icy Wind, Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Ominous Wind, Trick, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Uproar
Swinub = Snore, Mud Slap, Superpower, AncientPower, Earth Power, Endeavor
Goldeen = Icy Wind, Knock Off, Fury Cutter, Dive, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Bounce
Barboach = Dive, Icy Wind, Snore, Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Earth Power, Bounce
Bronzor = Trick, Snore, Rollout, Signal Beam, AncientPower
Mantyke = Dive, Icy Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Mud Slap, Bounce
Nosepass = ThunderPunch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Snore, Magnet Rise, Mud Slap, AncientPower, Rollout, Earth Power,Iron Defense
Pichu = Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Rollout
Scyther = Ominous Wind, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Swift
Gligar = Fury Cutter, Snore, Swift, Aqua Tail, Earth Power
Skorupi = Fury Cutter, Snore, Aqua Tail, Mud Slap
Gible = Fury Cutter, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Earth Power, Outrage, Iron Head, Twister
Houndour = Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Heat Wave
Lickytung = ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Icy Wind, Snore, Aqua Tail, Rollout, Mud Slap
Machop = ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Vacuum Wave, Snore, Helping Hand, Superpower, Mud Slap,
Croagunk = Fury Cutter, Icy Wind, ThunderPunch, Ice Punch, Vacuum Wave, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Snore, Spite, Mud Slap, Gunk Shot, Bounce
Remoraid = Dive, Icy Wind, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Signal Beam, Gunk Shot, Seed Bomb, Bounce ( Wow... this guy got pretty good things ) !
Finneon = Icy Wind, Dive, Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Snore, Swift, Aqua Tail, Twister, Bounce
Snover = Icy Wind, Ice Punch, Snore, Synthesis, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb
Snorunt = Icy Wind, Snore, Spite, Rollout
Sneasel = Ice Punch, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Snore, Spite, Swift, Mud Slap
Magnemite = Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Rollout, Signal Beam, Iron Defense
Riolu = Fury Cutter, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch, Zen Headbutt, Vacuum Wave, Snore, Helping Hand, Magnet Rise ( lol.. dun ask me why ), Swift, Iron Defense, Mud Slap
Duskull = Icy Wind, Ominous Wind, Snore, Spite,
Porygon = Icy Wind, Trick, Zen Headbutt, Snore, Last Resort, Swift, Signal Beam
Elekid = Ice Punch, Fire Punch (lol.. no ThunderPunch for you ), Snore, Helping Hand,Swift, Magnet Rise, Uproar, Mud Slap, Signal Beam
Eevee = Snore, Swift, Last Resort, Mud Slap
Swablu = Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Outrage, Heat Wave, Twister
So I checked the moves of 58 Pokemon... this probably may not sound pretty much.. but there's kinda surprising things to notice ( Magikarp learnS Bounce ). I hope that I didnt list anything wrong.. I gave my best =o
So have fun with this!
Well considering that the user wielding Celebi is likely to switch once Gyarados uses Bounce is already a turn-off, for me. If the opponent has Zapdos, or any other Pokemon that resists Flying-type and can cause severe damage to Gyarados, whether that be direct or in-direct, then Gyarados will immediately fall without posing much of a threat.
I suppose that the possibility of paralyzing the foe with whatever he may bring out has its benefits. But overall, knowing exactly what Gyarados will use the following turn can only help the opponent.
I suppose that the possibility of paralyzing the foe with whatever he may bring out has its benefits. But overall, knowing exactly what Gyarados will use the following turn can only help the opponent.
The problem with that of course is that should the opponent predict Bounce and send in something like Zapdos or Magnezone, Gyarados is as good as dead. It is a very risky option and I don't think it'll be as huge a boost as you're claiming.
EDIT: Yeah, what Taylor said.
In other news, Golem finally has a decent move to outrun and hit Claydol hard with in the form of Sucker Punch. Could be useful for CB sets over Double-Edge maybe? Not the biggest boost, and he still lacks a way to boost attack, but something at least.
Heat Wave Staraptor. Possibly an option on Life Orb sets to avoid being walled by Skarmory? The base stat is laughable and will probably still require some significant investment, but Skarm is no longer the 100% counter it once was.
The opponent is free to switch in their Flying resist but they'll be taking a hit and risking that 30% paralysis chance. Now, assuming that Gyarados had DD'd that earlier switch to Celebi he's probably faster than the Flying resist and can hit it hard with Earthquake or whatever or at least force a switch. LO wouldn't be reccomended but Bounce could definately be used to force switches and wear down Counters, very similarly to Dig Linoone.
Huge boost was a bit much as there is so much wrong with 2-turn attacks, but unless I've missed something this is Gyara's biggest gain in Platinum. It won't see much use but there is a little niche for it.
EDIT: Heh Magnet Rise Lucario. Can't touch this, Gliscor.
Huge boost was a bit much as there is so much wrong with 2-turn attacks, but unless I've missed something this is Gyara's biggest gain in Platinum. It won't see much use but there is a little niche for it.
EDIT: Heh Magnet Rise Lucario. Can't touch this, Gliscor.
lol bouncing Magikarp. Looks like all fish have the ability to learn Bounce.
Heat Wave Noctowl is nice.
Magnet Rise Riolu....another lol
Gastly being able to learn the punches just mocks Banette. I know it can learn them already through breeding as well but still....grrrr
Victreebel doesn't get Gunk Shot, but at least Sucker Punch is a nice addition.
Can someone check if Beldum learns Magnet Rise..and perhaps Iron Defense? lol
Someone update that Combee discussion...because it has a better Flying STAB!!!
Heat Wave Noctowl is nice.
Magnet Rise Riolu....another lol
Gastly being able to learn the punches just mocks Banette. I know it can learn them already through breeding as well but still....grrrr
Victreebel doesn't get Gunk Shot, but at least Sucker Punch is a nice addition.
Can someone check if Beldum learns Magnet Rise..and perhaps Iron Defense? lol
Someone update that Combee discussion...because it has a better Flying STAB!!!
HELLO
Just theoreymonned this out of my arse.
Staraptor @ Life Orb
Naughty / Naive
252 Attack, 176 Speed, 86 Sp. Attack
~Brave Bird
~Close Combat
~Heat Wave
~Roost / U-Turn / Pursuit / Return
280 / 308 Speed. Hits for 50% - 59% on 252 HP Skarmory with Heat Wave, an easy 2HKO with Stealth Rock and likely without. Obviously OHKOs Forretress and Scizor. With Expert Belt it does 46% - 54%, if you don't like the recoil. Roost is there because of said recoil, but it can only be really used on switches. Expert Belt isn't so good when your strongest attack is Flying type.