OU
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Shaymin-S Vote
- Thread starter Aeolus
- Start date
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Would you support a ban of Rotom (normal and appliance forms) as well, because they are banned from Nintendo tournaments?
voted uber
I agree that you gain a better understanding of a Poke through personal usage. However, I think that in some cases, such as this one, the factors pointing to Ubers are obvious enough without personal testing, and can be seen by just facing it on the ladder alone. Of course, this is just my opinion on the subject.
I still maintain that in the future, suspect ladders should be enforced again, with decently challenging voting criteria factored in. You are claiming that I'm biased because I haven't made a team with it yet, but I can say the same vice versa for many of the voters who qualified. They could have easily just spammed Skymin on the ladder to meet voting criteria, making them love the pokemon and want to keep their Skymin team. I'm talking about people who have not seen success battling until Skymin was introduced. This is why a ladder in which the pokemon in question is banned should be utilized, because then only people who are good regardless of the the suspect will be allowed to vote, and hopefully will make an unbiased decision.
I still maintain that in the future, suspect ladders should be enforced again, with decently challenging voting criteria factored in. You are claiming that I'm biased because I haven't made a team with it yet, but I can say the same vice versa for many of the voters who qualified. They could have easily just spammed Skymin on the ladder to meet voting criteria, making them love the pokemon and want to keep their Skymin team. I'm talking about people who have not seen success battling until Skymin was introduced. This is why a ladder in which the pokemon in question is banned should be utilized, because then only people who are good regardless of the the suspect will be allowed to vote, and hopefully will make an unbiased decision.
What?
Having used Skymin on numerous occasions before, I seriously found it to be underwhelming. The insane luck required to use it both effectively and consistently means that in the end there are many better pokemon for the slot.
With so many perfect counters in OU I really don't understand why people consider it to be Uber. In every previous instance, we banned something that had very few or zero proper counters: Garchomp was universally hailed as 'uncounterable', Wobbuffet had literally no counters because of its trapping ability, and Deoxys-E could set up screens and SR to its leisure by outspeeding and Taunting anything coming in to stop it.
Look at the top 4 pokemon: Heatran, Scizor, Zapdos, Blissey. Each one of them can deal with Shaymin effectively. There also exist so many other pokemon that can not only switch in with impunity, but also threaten Skymin enough to force it out. The very definition of paper counter.
Anyway, I know where my vote lies. Shaymin-S is OU.
LR.
With so many perfect counters in OU I really don't understand why people consider it to be Uber. In every previous instance, we banned something that had very few or zero proper counters: Garchomp was universally hailed as 'uncounterable', Wobbuffet had literally no counters because of its trapping ability, and Deoxys-E could set up screens and SR to its leisure by outspeeding and Taunting anything coming in to stop it.
Look at the top 4 pokemon: Heatran, Scizor, Zapdos, Blissey. Each one of them can deal with Shaymin effectively. There also exist so many other pokemon that can not only switch in with impunity, but also threaten Skymin enough to force it out. The very definition of paper counter.
Anyway, I know where my vote lies. Shaymin-S is OU.
LR.
Actually you're missing my point (EDIT- @Philip). Don't predispose it to be Uber, not use it, and then expect everybody to vote it Uber. For one, you're weighing down usage statistics (which would help your case out a bit more), and two, you could use the team to prove to *some* people you battle that it actually IS Uber.
I'm not making any generalizations about the requirement process. I have nothing to say on it, because I can't think of a viable alternative.
Regardless, this is a voting topic, not a discussion topic. I am done.
I'm not making any generalizations about the requirement process. I have nothing to say on it, because I can't think of a viable alternative.
Regardless, this is a voting topic, not a discussion topic. I am done.
I'm done as well. Time to eat an awesome chicken bake. When this thing gets voted OU, I will proceed to rape you all ^_^
Duskie
Boats n Hoes
Rape is a serious crime,sir.
I voted Uber. I don't care what anyone says Skymin leads you to use certain Pokemons like Zapdos or Crobat or Dragonite. Which decentralizes and I don't like that. Sure Skymin's Seed Flare can be stopped by things like Zapdos, (but keep in mind of SR damage and the 80% of lowering sp.def by 2 stages). It can easily destroy anything that comes in its path. Plus the 60% flinch rate is insane. You cannot compare something like Togekiss to Skymin. Never.
OU, drawing a line between Togekiss/Jirachi and Skymin is lol arbitrary, "eliminating luck" is a bogus reason because you need to have an arbitrary line of "too much luck," slippery slope etc haven't all the "Skymin is UBER!" arguments been smashed into the ground already?
Name 5 counters that can switch into seed flare, and either live and outspeed or not be KOed next turn with spec def drop
Why are 5 counters needed? Are you seriously telling me that Lucario has 5 counters? Or Salamence? Or maybe you consider them uber too.
For the record, '... counters that can switch into Seed Flare, and either live and outspeed or not be KOed next turn with spec def drop':
Crobat
Blissey
Regice
Registeel
Dragonite
Heatran
Zapdos
Scizor
Bronzong
Skarmory
For the record, '... counters that can switch into Seed Flare, and either live and outspeed or not be KOed next turn with spec def drop':
Crobat
Blissey
Regice
Registeel
Dragonite
Heatran
Zapdos
Scizor
Bronzong
Skarmory
Luck is something you DON'T use effectively. Luck happens. There is no strategic way to use luck. When you use Air Slash hoping for flinch you know your circumstances if it doesn't flinch. Same thing can be said to a Paralyzed Pokemon. Why would you use Agility with Metagross hoping for 25% Paralysis hault from Paralyzed Heatran when you know the circumstances.
I laugh at this statement.
Heatran is unable to counter Skymin as it gets totally ruined by the common Earth Power. You may be able to revenge kill Skymin with Scarf and atleast 260 speed. But notice, revenge killing is not countering.
Scizor as counter? Skymin's uses Seed Flare, you switch into Scizor. 80% chance of lowering your Sp.Def by TWO STAGES. Air Slash, you're done. Scizor is no way a Skymin counter.
Zapdos as a Skymin counter? Notice Steath Rock does 25% damage on Zapdos. Which Stealth Rock is very common. If you do calculations Specs Seed Flare on Zapdos switch lowers Sp.def by TWO STAGES and does serious damage. While Another Seed Flare ruins Zapdos. Even without that a Seed Flare on Zapdos then HP Ice ruins Zapdos. Zapdos is no way a "perfect OU counter"
Blissey gets raped by Subseeder Skymin. Simply Substitute and Leech Seed. While it leaves Blissey to have Ice Beam as a must in order to counter Skymin. Forcing something like Ice Beam on Blissey while some other moves may be more viable to your team if forcing decentralizing.
If those are your "perfect OU counters" then I wonder what your others are...
Nah, just couldn't think of any and needed one for my team =] thanks
Blissey, Skarmory, Heatran, Regice, Registeel, Bronzong, Shedinja
Edit, Oh, and Seed flare only has a 68% chance of lowering SpD two levels (.85 * .8)
Regice and Registeel can't get their Sp. Def dropped, neither can Tentacruel w/ clear body. For everyone else, the sp. def drop only happens 68% of the time, but if it does, then Zapdos, Scarf Heatran, and that makes 5 right? Skarmory really doesn't care much, Bronzong 2HKO's with Gyro Ball, and we'll toss in Scarf Gengar to make 8, which is Seed Flare's pitiful PP.
Lol, I realized i sorta sounded like i was challanging him, but to clarify, I really only wanted counters. I assume its staying, and I never bothered to build a counter to it.
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