Gen 3 GC Research Thread (Colosseum/XD)

[Lorak]

Since we lack a thread to discuss things discovered about the Gamecube games (Pokemon Colosseum and XD), I figured I'd make one up.

First, based on damage calculations, both from and to the opponent's Pokemon, it seems their IVs are always 0 in Colosseum, with a set ability and nature. This, however, is not the case for Shadow Pokemon.

It also seems, though I'm not 100% positive, that through over 400 tests, the Mew tutor did not select two or more XD-exclusive Mew tutor moves to generate for a moveset. This does not apply to tutored moves learned in XD (Self-Destruct, Sky Attack, etc.), where one or more could be found on the movesets; rather, it is for things such as Hypnosis and Zap Cannon.

 

[Arseus]

One thing I would like to put out there is the possibility of either Shadow Pokèmon having their stats altered whilst in the possession of the AI trainer. This is probably similar to the "badge boosts" in the GBA handheld games.

The reason I bring this up is because I was soft-resetting for a fast Lugia in XD by using my Mightyena to test for speed. Now, I don't remember the specifics, as the last time I had the patience for XD was in October, but let's say I had a Mightyena with 123 Speed. Lugia moves first, so it must have at least 124, right? Well, after catching it and checking its summary, it appears that the Shadow Lugia actually has 120 Speed. Same applies for HP; I go to check the Lugia's HP with Raticate's Endeavor (let's suppose Raticate has 200 HP), and it works! However, the captured Lugia only has an HP count of 198 total. This is odd, as I don't know of any other circumstance where an invisible modifier is applied to an HP stat, then removed afterwords (Shedinja's HP is always 1, glitches notwithstanding). I can pull out the numbers later this week by soft resetting some more, but that's the gist of the situation I would like to present. It would be interesting to find out if this boost exists for all shadow Pokèmon in XD and Colosseum.

 

[Lorak]

One thing I would like to put out there is the possibility of either Shadow Pokèmon having their stats altered whilst in the possession of the AI trainer. This is probably similar to the "badge boosts" in the GBA handheld games. ... I can pull out the numbers later this week by soft resetting some more, but that's the gist of the situation I would like to present.

Interesting. I'd love to see more data on this.

I'd also present the Mew move tutor answers/moves data, but at the moment, it's somewhat incomplete and disorganized.

 

[Arseus]

I'm afraid I can't do anything concerning Mew, as I don't possess one in the third generation of games. Good luck to those who can though!

I can give you the relevant stats (ie. HP and Speed) of my Raticate and Mightyena respectively, as well as some captured Lugia (once I get them!), and I suppose we can see where to go from there. I'll just need a day or two to locate my memory card, and gather up the motivation to return to the dreaded XD resetting, haha. I should have data of some sort by Friday, since I need time to actually gather some relevant numbers (hopefully at least 5 or 6 occurrences of an "odd" Lugia). If somebody drops me a PM on Wednesday or so to make sure I haven't forgotten, that would be helpful!

 

[Lorak]

I'm afraid I can't do anything concerning Mew, as I don't possess one in the third generation of games. Good luck to those who can though!

I can give you the relevant stats (ie. HP and Speed) of my Raticate and Mightyena respectively, as well as some captured Lugia (once I get them!), and I suppose we can see where to go from there. I'll just need a day or two to locate my memory card, and gather up the motivation to return to the dreaded XD resetting, haha. I should have data of some sort by Friday, since I need time to actually gather some relevant numbers (hopefully at least 5 or 6 occurrences of an "odd" Lugia). If somebody drops me a PM on Wednesday or so to make sure I haven't forgotten, that would be helpful!

I'll be sure to send a PM your way.

For some reason, I find Colosseum's pacing and gameplay wholely and utterly uninteresting, and an overall irritation, whose only redeeming quality is the instant checking of Snags. As such, my research will mostly be dedicated to XD work.

 

[Thorns]

The stat altering of Shadow Pokemon when being controlled by the AI is likely true - same thing happened to me when catching some of the earlier Pokemon (I couldn't be bothered with Teddiursa in Pearl).

 

[Arseus]

All righty, it's Friday, and as promised, I have some results from the Lugia tests. It's by no means exhaustive, but it at least provides proof of stat altering.

Mightyena's Speed - 128
Raticate's HP - 180

HP/Att/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

False Positive - Both Checks

[B]172[/B]/109/147/99/162/[B]121[/B]

False Positive - Speed Only

168/104/148/109/163/[B]122[/B]

False Positive - HP Only

[B]171[/B]/96/142/99/169/137
[B]180[/B]/99/141/107/162/129
[B]173[/B]/99/160/104/164/130
[B]174[/B]/85/141/98/163/143
[B]179[/B]/107/144/109/148/129
[B]180[/B]/91/147/104/162/134

The lowest HP that still passed the Endeavor check was 171 - ten less than what should pass (181). 168 failed the test, meaning the HP modifier must increase HP by as much as 10-12. Speed is less conclusive; the sole false positives were 121 and 122, meaning a boost of at least 8 or 9 (it was possibly a Speed tie while the modifiers were applied).

Nothing definitive, but I'm guessing at this point it could be +10 to all stats. This likely doesn't apply to all Shadow Pokèmon; it would be broken at the beginning of the game. So I'm not 100% sure how much the boost is at this point, but I think it's confirmed that it exists.

 

[Wild Eep]

I can confirm the boosts in XD, but I'm pretty certain the boosts are not present in Colosseum. My Misdreavus's Pain Split accurately gauges the Shadow Suicune's HP every time I've caught it.

The XD Boost could be a multiplier, so it's less broken early game...

 

[Lorak]

My best guess is it could be a level/5 boost to the stats, or something of the like. I suppose more research is needed.

 

[Arseus]

Yes, I am pretty sure it would be a multiplier; for a Level 50 Lugia it's probably +10. I can try and get some more Lugia to narrow it down to the exact boost, but I'm afraid due to the point I am in XD, there's no way for me to catch any other Shadow Pokèmon at different levels to see how much their stats are boosted. Perhaps someone else would be willing to give it a shot?

I'm afraid that with the end of the winter break comes culminating assignments and exams though, so I will inevitably not be able to do too much this month. I'll try and post back here eventually with some more Lugia results though.

 

[Veedrock]

Bah, unfortunately I only have Colosseum or I would definately help get some results. That is very, very interesting indeed. Getting a definitive number would benefit checkers greatly. Why would it do that though? Just to screw with stat checks? It seems rather odd/random if you ask me.

If there's anything that needs tested Colosseum-wise, I'm your man. I graduate in 4 days so I'll have some free time after that, although just how much is still up in the air. I have access to Sapphire in order to obtain necessary pokemon or items, but that's about it unfortunately (I lost almost everything when I was kicked out).

 

[Thorns]

the reasoning behind the boosts is probably to make the Pokemon harder to catch. After all, when you've just thrown all 6 of your Pokemon at Lugia, it can't exactly be the immense demolishing machine you fought, right?

 

[Veedrock]

You know what I have to say to that....Master Ball, go! lol

But you're probably right. It must give the illusion that shadow pokemon are pumped (moreso than average pokemon), although this effect diminishes when you capture it.

First, based on damage calculations, both from and to the opponent's Pokemon, it seems their IVs are always 0 in Colosseum, with a set ability and nature. This, however, is not the case for Shadow Pokemon.

I could get definitive results using a "mule" save file and an action replay for "all pokemon are shadow pokemon." Simply catch a few pokemon a few times each and check the result. If I do get different results than you, then the action replay may be telling the game to randomize their attributes due to being shadow. Still worth a shot.

 

[Lorak]

I could get definitive results using a "mule" save file and an action replay for "all pokemon are shadow pokemon." Simply catch a few pokemon a few times each and check the result. If I do get different results than you, then the action replay may be telling the game to randomize their attributes due to being shadow. Still worth a shot.

Well, I'm a tad concerned that the AR code might affect the IV generation process, or something about the Pokemon, other than just the supposed "is this a shadow Pokemon or not" switch.

 

[Lightsabre]

I'd like to know how to get Ho-oh in Colleseum. I was trying earlier before I reset, but I could never get it

 

[Lorak]

I'd like to know how to get Ho-oh in Colleseum. I was trying earlier before I reset, but I could never get it

Beat the Mt. Battle 100 battles, using only Pokemon snagged in-game (you can transfer them off, level/EV them however, but they MUST be snagged Pokemon, Plusle, Umbreon, or Espeon). Not the in-game Mt. Battle 100 levels, the mode outside of it.

 

[Wild Eep]

Beat the Mt. Battle 100 battles, using only Pokemon snagged in-game (you can transfer them off, level/EV them however, but they MUST be snagged Pokemon, Plusle, Umbreon, or Espeon). Not the in-game Mt. Battle 100 levels, the mode outside of it.

I was able to get Ho-Oh with Pokémon I bred in Emerald. The catch is that you must complete Mt. Battle with your Story Mode save, so anything you want to use must be traded onto the Colosseum save.

 

[Veedrock]

Yeah, Wild Eep is right. You can use pokemon outside of Colosseum; they just have to be registered on your ingame team (rather than registered from an ADV game). So trade them over, save, then go register it.

One guide I read said that he swept all of Mt. Battle with a Kyogre (it died only twice, and even then he did enough damage to easily win the match).

And alright, I won't use an AR to test that theory. I'm crunched for time right now so I can't contribute much anyways.

 

[Lorak]

Anyone, any further progress?

 

[Lightsabre]

thanks for that information, and can you SR the Ho-oh? I will help if someon can tell me how I'm supposed to help(I have col)

 

[Lorak]

thanks for that information, and can you SR the Ho-oh? I will help if someon can tell me how I'm supposed to help(I have col)

I'm going to guess it's something you get at the end, and it auto-saves, preventing SRing. However, I haven't encountered it yet, so I don't know.

 

[Wild Eep]

If I remember correctly from when I obtained my first Ho-Oh, it autosaved at the end, and I was stuck with a crappy Timid Ho-Oh. I'll look more closely whenever I make my next Mt. Battle run (who knows when that'll be...?).

 

[Lightsabre]

can I repeatedly beat the Mt. Battle and get more Ho-ohs? or do I have to restart the game? this is starting to sound just as hard as SRing the XD brids :/

 

[Lorak]

can I repeatedly beat the Mt. Battle and get more Ho-ohs? or do I have to restart the game? this is starting to sound just as hard as SRing the XD brids :/

I'm going to guess it's one-a-game. And it might be harder to get a good one of these than the birds, since you have to complete the game first, and *then* do all the battling.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

You're prompted to save once you fulfill the requirements to acquire Ho-oh. If you don't save, you don't get Ho-oh (meaning you have to do the 100 battles all over again lol). One Ho-oh per game save IIRC. Navel Rock Ho-oh ftw. Legit Navel Rock Ho-oh for more win. <_<