CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 14b - Complete Movepool Poll 3

[cyberzero]

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Cyclohm
Type: Electric / Dragon
Style Bias: Somewhat Defensive
Build Bias: Mixed, possibly Special
Ability: Shield Dust/Static
Stats: 108 HP/60 Atk/118 Def/112 Sp Atk/70 Sp Def/80 Spe

All the members selected in the Complete Movepool Submission thread should make a final submission to the TL. These submissions should be listed in the OP of the poll thread and voted on by the community. No alterations, edits, or conditional votes will be accepted. By the time the final movepool is polled, all competitive movepool aspects have already been decided. Therefore, the final movepool is really a vote of individual preference on what best fits the flavor of the pokemon.

This is a clicky poll. Although this is mostly flavor-based, it does have an extremely huge impact on the playtesting, so take the time to read through the movepools and make intelligent choices.

This is the king baby, tennis basically said I came up with it so I can submit it as my own. Thanks for offering help though.

Final Submission:

[B]Level-Up:[/B]

H. Weather Ball
H. Gravity
1. Thundershock
1. Leer
4. Thunder Wave
7. Tackle
11. Charge
15. Spark
19. Stun Spore
22. Double-Hit
25. Discharge
29. Slack Off
33. Tri-Attack 
38. Dragon Dance
45. Volt Tackle
54. Hyper Beam

[B]Egg: (Dragon/Monster)[/B]
Yawn
Dragonbreath
Hydro Pump
Overheat
Curse
Fire Fang
Thunder Fang
Dragon Rush
Haze
Block

[B]TM:[/B]

TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM30 – Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM58 - Endure
TM59 - Dragon Pulse
TM62 - Silver Wind
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM78 – Captivate
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash

[B]Tutor Moves:[/B]
Draco Meteor

Air Cutter
Fire Punch
Knock Off
Ominous Wind
ThunderPunch
Vacuum Wave
Magnet Rise
Snore
Swift
Ancientpower
Aqua Tail
Outrage
Signal Beam
Twister

Highlights:

Stun Spore, Slack Off, Discharge, Volt Tackle, Hydro Pump, Overheat.

Legal Egg Combos:

Yawn + Curse (Slowbro)
Yawn + Hydro Pump (Blastoise, Kingdra)
Yawn + Block (Slowbro)
Yawn + Curse + Block (Slowbro)
Yawn + Haze (Blastoise)
Yawn + Haze + Hydro Pump (Blastoise)
Curse + Hydro Pump (Lapras)
Curse + Block (Bastiodon)
Haze + Fangs (Arbok)
Haze + Dragon Rush (Dragonite)
Haze + Dragonbreath + Dragon Rush (Dragonite)
Overheat + Dragon Rush (Charizard)
Overheat + Fire Fang + Dragon Rush (Charizard)
Fire Fang + Dragon Rush: Garchomp
Fangs + Hydro Pump + Dragon Rush (Salamence)

So basically you can't have support moves or Hydro Pump with Overheat. Otherwise everything is possible.

Other notes: No Fire Blast, No Stealth Rock, Uses Light Screen and Safeguard but not Reflect, has Roar, Taunt, Trick Room, Gravity. Has Vacuum Wave.

Random crap:
Double Hit, Tri-Attack, Payback.

I wasn't completely satisfied with the current sets, so I put one together. I took a sort of "everything" approach, so mine has considerably more viable options than most of the others.

Level-up list

 H - Weather Ball
 H - Tri Attack
 1 - Thundershock
 1 - Bite
 6 - Twister
 13 - Spark
 18 - Haze
 23 - Sonicboom
 31 - [B]Discharge[/B]
 39 - Dragonbreath
 47 - Thunder Fang
 53 - [B]Mist Ball[/B]
 58 - Dragon Claw
 66 - Zap Cannon
 72 - [B]Volt Tackle[/B]
 75 - Thunder

Includes Volt Tackle and Zap Cannon, for those who like alternative Electric moves. For artistic reasons, I was annoyed that none of the other sets got Sonicboom, so there it is.

Egg moves
Group: Dragon/Monster

 [B]Dragon Dance[/B]
 Dragon Rush
 [B]Hydro Pump[/B]
 Fire Fang
 Crunch
 Gust
 [B]Yawn[/B]
 [B]Growth[/B]

There's Dragon Dance for novelty physical sweepers, and Hydro Pump for the same reasons Salamence gets it as an egg move. Most of the moves can be obtained from Salamence, Gust and Growth can come from Tropius, and Yawn comes from Kingdra.

TMs/HMs

 TM02 - Dragon Claw
 TM03 - Water Pulse
 [B]TM05 - Roar[/B]
 [B]TM06 - Toxic[/B]
 TM07 - Hail
 TM10 - Hidden Power
 TM11 - Sunny Day
 [B]TM12 - Taunt[/B]
 [B]TM14 - Blizzard[/B]
 TM15 - Hyper Beam
 [B]TM16 - Light Screen[/B]
 TM17 - Protect
 TM18 - Rain Dance
 TM21 - Frustration
 [B]TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder[/B]
 TM26 - Earthquake
 TM27 - Return
 [B]TM30 - Shadow Ball[/B]
 TM32 - Double Team
 [B]TM33 - Reflect[/B]
 TM34 - Shock Wave
 [B]TM35 - Flamethrower[/B]
 TM37 - Sandstorm
 [B]TM38 - Fire Blast[/B]
 TM42 - Facade
 TM43 - Secret Power
 TM44 - Rest
 TM45 - Attract
 [B]TM50 - Overheat[/B]
 [B]TM51 - Roost[/B]
 [B]TM57 - Charge Beam[/B]
 TM58 - Endure
 [B]TM59 - Dragon Pulse[/B]
 TM62 - Silver Wind
 TM68 - Giga Impact
 TM70 - Flash
 TM72 - Avalanche
 [B]TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM76 - Stealth Rock[/B]
 TM78 - Captivate
 TM82 - Sleep Talk
 TM83 - Natural Gift
 TM90 - Substitute
 TM91 - Flash Cannon
 HM01 - Cut
 HM02 - Fly
 [B]HM03 - Surf[/B]
 HM05 - Defog

Why Stealth Rock? Well, I ask you: Why not? It's a decent filler on any set, but it's not like it's going to be used much. Roost is a solid healing move. Blizzard wasn't on the allowed/unallowed list, but nobody's going to use it with all the Dragon moves anyway, and it's weather-related, so I included it for artistic reasons. I included the screens because that's the way the vote went. Vacuum Wave was always a move I wanted and the three Fire moves are because I didn't want to give it just one.

Move Tutors

 Air cutter
 Icy Wind
 Ominous Wind
 [B]Vacuum Wave[/B]
 Bounce
 [B]Outrage[/B]
 [B]Signal Beam[/B]
 Twister
 [B]Draco Meteor[/B]
 Zen Headbutt
 Magnet Rise
 [B]Knock Off[/B]
 [B]Heat Wave[/B]

Obviously, I was looking for weather-related moves.

Note: Okay, by now, Cyzir's helped me so much that it's practically a joint submission.

 

[Matthew]

Deck Knight. His movespool is extremely thought out and he obviously didn't give the pokemon anything that could be considered "broken". Vacuum Wave also is a key move IMO. Fighting-type is alright as an attacking type, it's better defensivly so this priority will help CAP8, but not given it a huge advantage. Light Screen but not Reflect makes this already physically bulky pokemon be able to make some use of its average Special Defense. Last notes are Dragon Dance is a point of interest with me, as is Volt Tackle.

What I have against Dan's is that he gives it many Fire-type attacks, which can go on almost any set. At least when I look at Deck Knight's I know that I cannot have a supporter with a Fire-type attack. Not only that but Double Screen just seems a bit superfluous on this pokemon, he has a very good Defense and HP stat, why do we want to boost that by allowing him Reflect? I also do want to say I never have seen why everyone wants Mist Ball allowed on this pokemon, but that is just me. I also do not like how Stealth Rocks was placed on it, it doesn't hurt anything, but we might as well not make Stealth Rock any more dominant in a metagame than it already is.

 

[Deck Knight]

May the best man win UD, good luck.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

First off I wanted to point out the lack of Fire Blast and instead Overheat. I really can't see a lightning bolt shooting out flames but I can see it super heating the atmosphere around it with it's lightning bolts (in case you didnt know they are about the same temperature as the sun).

DK and UB have Flamethrower within their submission and FT is just a lesser Fire Blast so it's not farfeteched to see it use Fire Blast. We also have to understand how Overheat is even done which still bothers me to this day. Is it a stream of super hot fire, an explosion of superheated air, or something else?

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Hm, at this point it's coming down to specific moves and who has em. I'll be casting the vote in a lil bit after a few more minutes of analysis. It won't be easy to choose though. Good luck to both of you.

 

[SEO]

Im still sticking with Deck Knight. I dont like that Umbreon Dan's submission has access to Fire Blast, I think that Over Heat is flavorwise nicer, and competitevly more balanced.

 

[Staraptor Call]

I'm going with Deck Knight's submission. In don't want Cyclohm to have Stealth Rock, becuase the rocks are already too dominant. Umbreon Dan gives Cyclohm Fire Blast, and that would make it too much of an offensive threat. I like how the Deck Knight movepool makes you choose between fire and support.

 

[Lord Blood]

For the same reasons that are already stated, I'll go with Deck Knight. Seems like his is overall, more thought out. Vacuum Wave is a great benefit, and I don't think Dual Screens is necessary.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Umbreon Dan gives Cyclohm Fire Blast, and that would make it too much of an offensive threat.

So it's ok for Salamence to have Fire Blast, but not Cyclohm...? I can underststand some flavor reasoning at this point, but saying that move will be completely unbalanced isn't true.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

May the best man win UD, good luck.

Actually, I'm quite pleased with myself as it is. This is easily the farthest I've ever gotten in any CAP poll. You're a good man, DK, and it looks like you're going to win, so I congratulate you.

Though I do wish you had given your submission Zap Cannon :(

 

[zach the great]

Going with Deck Knight, but one thing. How can Cyclohm punch? I've seen Ghastly though, so not a surprise.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

See, now that it's been narrowed down to only two candidates rather than 7488932170312 million, I can actually vote instead of abstaining, because I know that any vote I make without thoroughly examining each submission would be ultimately arbitrary and uninformed. That's why I haven't been voting in the move polls.

But yes, Deck Knight it is! I just don't want this thing to have Stealth Rock. And this Punching >>> Kitsunoh punching, anyway.... It's only moderately less legitimate than Metagross anyway. (I know that this does not matter. I believe that Kitsunoh should have ThunderPunch. I just wish that Doug's design had won, so that the flavor hadn't ended up being so off with the mechanical blueprint to which we had to adhere, a'ight! :))

 

[Deck Knight]

See, now that it's been narrowed down to only two candidates rather than 7488932170312 million, I can actually vote instead of abstaining, because I know that any vote I make without thoroughly examining each submission would be ultimately arbitrary and uninformed. That's why I haven't been voting in the move polls.

But yes, Deck Knight it is! I just don't want this thing to have Stealth Rock. And this Punching >>> Kitsunoh punching, anyway.... It's only moderately less legitimate than Metagross anyway. (I know that this does not matter. I believe that Kitsunoh should have ThunderPunch. I just wish that Doug's design had won, so that the flavor hadn't ended up being so off with the mechanical blueprint to which we had to adhere, a'ight! :))

To be honest my thoughts on design is that this is 90% cloud and is thus effectively amorphous and can transform into the shape of a giant cloud fist. It doesn't really have organs so much as it can make them appear to be so by restructuring itself.

When it is in a bad mood it withdraws its heads and just rains on a random trainer, ala The Munsters house.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

giant cloud fist.

Pierce the heavens with your almighty power.

I would like to mention that one should check both movepools thoroughly before voting and/or making a comment about them. You have a good 24-48 hours of thinking time to make an decision so they're no rush. Vote for the one you think best fulfilled your desires the most, not who's the most well-known and any other weird reason.

Overheat as a flavor move still bugs me though

 

[cyberzero]

See, now that it's been narrowed down to only two candidates rather than 7488932170312 million, I can actually vote instead of abstaining, because I know that any vote I make without thoroughly examining each submission would be ultimately arbitrary and uninformed. That's why I haven't been voting in the move polls.

But yes, Deck Knight it is! I just don't want this thing to have Stealth Rock. And this Punching >>> Kitsunoh punching, anyway.... It's only moderately less legitimate than Metagross anyway. (I know that this does not matter. I believe that Kitsunoh should have ThunderPunch. I just wish that Doug's design had won, so that the flavor hadn't ended up being so off with the mechanical blueprint to which we had to adhere, a'ight! :))

Please, going over the past and disagreeing with previous polls is not the goal here. Once again, it's always a negative connotation. Also, if you did not want to go through the submissions from the previous polls, how do you know that the best possible movepool made it here? There are inevitably a large number of random and arbitrary votes here.

 

[Depressio]

It's actually really close for me, but I'm going with Umbreon Dan. What really did it for me was Growth, not to mention the multitude of moves for flavor that I thought were cool. I thought Curse was a good idea, but I really liked the idea of boosting SpA in a non-broken way.

 

[WarriorPrince]

Why does get just overheat by egg and not by TM as well.

I like both of them actually. I see no major differences accept that the second set offers more support moves, and Fireblast.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Why does get just overheat by egg and not by TM as well.

DK wanted to use Ninetales/Energy Ball logic on you kiddies because it's a clever way of saying "I didn't want this move but want it to pull the crowd in" and maybe a balancing issue though would anyone use DM&Overheat together? Personally I always found that somewhat double standardish to me. People complain about X can't learn Y because of Z reasoning(s) despite the fact they're exceptions to X and Y, but then we suddenly agree on another exception without thinking that doing so give off mix messages. This probably can apply to flavor issues as well since they're plauged with exceptions.

 

[Deck Knight]

DK wanted to use Ninetales/Energy Ball logic on you kiddies because it's a clever way of saying "I didn't want this move but want it to pull the crowd in" and maybe a balancing issue though would anyone use DM&Overheat together?

The Breed Moves was about separating Overheat from Hydro Pump. Either of them can be used with Draco Meteor. My thought process would be that allowing Overheat and Hydro Pump on a Specs set together would be overkill. Specsmence is already a menace and it doesn't have an awesome second STAB attack to put on the set. To be blunt, I thought Thunderbolt/Draco Meteor/Overheat/Hydro Pump @ Choice Specs would be too overpowering.

"Blissey" yeah, and if that's gone?

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I don't think it makes much difference. I would use Surf over Hydro Pump even if I had a choice. Also, Vacuum Wave deserves mention on a Specs set.

 

[diinbong]

Went with Deck Night's submission, but fantastic job both of you!

 

[Chomz]

Just a quick question: why do the sets have Dragon Dance? I find it distracts Cyclohm from its main purpose (as a Special-inclined tank), and instead promotes gimmicky Physical Sweeper sets which, considering its pretty crappy Attack, aren't going to be exploring its maximum potential.

 

[Matthew]

Just a quick question: why do the sets have Dragon Dance? I find it distracts Cyclohm from its main purpose (as a Special-inclined tank), and instead promotes gimmicky Physical Sweeper sets which, considering its pretty crappy Attack, aren't going to be exploring its maximum potential.

The movepools have Dragon Dance because the creators decided that it would be in there, for their specific reasons then you'll need to PM them. I don't think that many people would try a very poor gimmick Dragon Dance set when using this pokemon as tank would be much more helpful. But in the world of pokemon a lot of moves are on pokemon which can be used as "gimmicks" like Magnet Rise on Dialga or Tail Glow on illumise.

 

[Objection]

I don't think it makes much difference. I would use Surf over Hydro Pump even if I had a choice.

What if Hydro Pump nets a few OHKOs or 2HKOs that Surf doesn't? Assuming Leftovers.

 

[fullmetal]

I've been following this how pokemon since it started, more or less lurked it. Never really got into posting until now (hopefully I can be more involved in the next CaP). Anyway getting down to the point, I'm voting for Deck Knight due to the fact that its more rounded and on a sense more "fairer". That's why he got my vote.

Forgot to mention, good job to the both of you. Let the best set win haha.