Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver - The Offical Competitive Discussion Thread

[RegalStar]

There's an Aqua Jet tutor? I'm pending on the list.

If it does, I would say it'd probably be kicked to BL because every team would be required to run a water immune (yay Quagsire getting recover) or Milotic, though they already kind of do. Aqua Jet / Belly Drum / Superpower / Ice Punch is enough to sweep teams though. Maybe Sub over Ice Punch in there. It's plenty bulky so it won't really get picked off right off the bat if it gets set up.

Yeah, I'm already considering how to fit Azumarill in OU. The problem is that it is still viable to get picked off by Dragonite E-Speed unless you run Chilan berry (lol). Also Aqua Jet can't kill anything really bulky and/or resists water (like Celebi and Suicune and stuff), and it gets outspeed by almost anything. You can run subsalac to remedy that (it now outspeeds Luke at least, though Draggy still resists Aqua Jet), but it still doesn't get enough speed against some things that resist water. You'll need plenty of support to ensure a drumjet Azu sweep.

 

[Age of Kings]

I agree that if the rumors are true, I would be looking in to using Azu in OU. With considerable bulk, it resists Bullet Punch and can certainly survive other priorities. It's a shame that common Intimidaters like Gyarados and Salamence resist water, but with Stealth Rock support it would sweep teams.

True, just pure speculation, Azumarill can run Sub / Aqua Jet / Waterfall / Belly Drum in the UU tier. A bit random but it just needs its precious STABs as even the bulkiest Gras-type (Tangrowth) won't enjoy +6 Belly Drum Waterfall dealing 56.93% max. Ice Punch is always welcome, but 2 STABs is enough.

I wouldn't run both of its STABs simply due to Water Absorbers like Poliwrath and Quagsire, both of which got considerable upgrades. I think Aqua Jet should be complimented by Ice Punch so they don't end your sweep simply due to their ability.

 

[False [old]]

just a reminder
POWER/GUARD SWAP ATTACK/DEF SWAP BUFFS WITH THE FOE NOT STATS

Power trick is what swaps the users attack and defense

That said, there ARE some pokemon that can have some fun with Power Swap now, like Tangrowth and Altaria. They can use Leaf Storm/Draco Meteor, and then transfer the SpAtk drop.

 

[viol and bass]

Guys, I think there's a pretty good chance that rather than there being fifty-two move tutors, there are fifty-two moves that one can learn from move tutors. Maverick mentioned that s/he isn't a native speaker of English so it's a good possibility. Fifty-two move tutors would just be crazy.

 

[Age of Kings]

I can't wait to hear the moves you can get. I hope some of the Emerald tutors, namely Seismic Toss and Counter, return.

Oh, and Rapid Spin. :]

Just saw Aqua Jet Qwilfish. It would be interesting to see a lead set with Aqua Jet, Spikes and Tspikes, and Explosion, maybe Counter over Explosion for better synergy with Aqua Jet or one of the spikes. That is if Counter returns as a tutored move.

 

[RBG]

Actually, this is incorrect. It will be legal due to a 'glitch' of sorts allowing Azumarill to breed and learn both moves.

Not to get off topic, but since their is another glitch in early Japan DP that allows any pokemon with mimic to learn every move, both glitches will not be allowed.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I just glanced over the list but some of the changes are going to be excellent :). ExtremeSpeed Dragonite adds even more emphasis to priority in OU, and then there are the many additions to UU Pokemon's movepools that will completely revamp the tier (alongside possible tier changes for Roserade and Rhyperior). I'm glad the new games have a competitive impact, this is just what all the metagames need to revitalise them.

Hopefully the list is complete by the weekend, I'm going to spend a lot more time going over it then.

 

[blasphemy1]

1. Aqua Jet Feraligatr will finally separate it from Gyarados and will be a potent threat in UU.

Doesn't it already do so with the ability to survive Thunderbolts, Torrent, Swords Dance, and no Stealth Rock weakness? This just makes it even more viable.

 

[Zeromus EG]

Oh God, as soon as the changes get implemented on Shoddy I'm starting up on Ubers again. Brave Bird Ho-oh and Hydro Pump Palkia :O
Double weather team me thinks, Groudon, Kyogre, Band Ho-oh, Specs Palkia, filler, filler.

Some of these changes are incredible, I was in awe reading through that thing. Recover Quagsire gets me the most excited, outside of Stockpile and Sticky Hold, what does Gastrodon have on Quagsire now?

Cheers for the info guys (Y)

 

[blasphemy1]

Oh God, as soon as the changes get implemented on Shoddy I'm starting up on Ubers again. Brave Bird Ho-oh and Hydro Pump Palkia :O
Double weather team me thinks, Groudon, Kyogre, Band Ho-oh, Specs Palkia, filler, filler.

Some of these changes are incredible, I was in awe reading through that thing. Recover Quagsire gets me the most excited, outside of Stockpile and Sticky Hold, what does Gastrodon have on Quagsire now?

Cheers for the info guys (Y)

A more suitable stat spread for a Curse set.

 

[Ondore]

It appears Ho-oh learns Brave Bird at level 15, hence it will have it when you try to catch it in Heart Gold.

That, my friends, will likely be the hardest pokemon you will ever catch,
not only because of it's INSANE power, but it can also get recoil and kill itself before you can catch it.

Don't forget, the birds are L45 in the games that they mascot. So in Ho-oh's case, it'll have Extrasensory, Sunny Day, Fire Blast and Sacred Fire when you go to catch it. Brave Bird will be scrolled off the set pending a Move Returner.

Also, for our VGC-playing compatriots note that the DPP mascot dragons now learn everything before L50 (last move for each is L46) in HG/SS. I don't know if anything missed a natural move in the last Worlds, but if they're going to be legal now...

 

[Yanma024]

Belly Drum/QuickFeet Ursaring looks like Linone. With the One turn set up and all.

Nasty Plot Mr. Mime :)

Recover Quagsire gets me the most excited, outside of Stockpile and Sticky Hold, what does Gastrodon have on Quagsire now?

Exactly What I was thinking.

EDIT- Wiht Dragon Dance Crawdaunt is now going to be used.

 

[Psykoz]

Guys, I think there's a pretty good chance that rather than there being fifty-two move tutors, there are fifty-two moves that one can learn from move tutors. Maverick mentioned that s/he isn't a native speaker of English so it's a good possibility. Fifty-two move tutors would just be crazy.

Or it could be one move per tutor, as in FR/GL. :)

 

[Ondore]

Also, Platinum had 42 tutorable moves counting Draco Meteor and the comedy elemental Hyper Beam variants.

 

[VKCA]

"Misdreavus: Nasty Plot"
*cries

 

[Maverick Hunter]

Ok, about the move tutors:

there are 14 new move tutors. 38 old tutors :P

one of them is headbutt (doh), other one is defog (HM05 is not DEFOG, probably whirlpool)

between the old ones, all pokémon learns the same tutors, except for a brand new Earth power sunflora.

between the new ones, one is learned by cute pokémon, other is learned by pokémon with fangs... we have the list of pokémon who learn, but we don't know what move they learn. the list is at first page.

 

[Age of Kings]

None of them looks to be Aqua Jet, so I guess our suspicions about Azumarill have been put to rest.

EDIT;; Oh, and an egg move that has me excited: Aromatherapy Clefable

Versatile, and now a cleric. A perfect one too, with Magic Guard. Too bad it's illegal with Softboiled.

Which may be one of the tutor moves...

 

[A.P.]

Very weird bunch, though.

Nice work, Maverick. Can't wait to find out the move names.

 

[imperfectluck]

Can you post the japanese names of the attacks here? Plenty of people here on smogon, including me, can read japanese.

 

[Age of Kings]

I would watch whatever this is. I'm betting on Softboiled or Heal Bell. Most likely the latter given that some have either learned it before, got it from XD (though Lapras and Amphy are there, but Articuno and Mightyena are absent for example), or just look like they would. Wish is another possibility though stuff like Latias is absent.

[???]
Clefairy, Clefable, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Chansey, Jynx, Lapras, Eevee, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Mew, Chinchou, Lanturn, Igglybuff, Togepi, Togetic, Mareep, Flaaffy, Ampharos, Espeon, Umbreon, Misdreavus, Snubbull, Granbull, Smoochum, Miltank, Blissey, Celebi, Gardevoir, Skitty, Delcatty, Spoink, Grumpig, Swablu, Altaria, Chimecho, Buneary, Lopunny, Mismagius, Chingling, Happiny, Togekiss, Leafeon, Glaceon, Uxie, Phione, Manaphy

 

[RegalStar]

I would watch whatever this is. I'm betting on Softboiled or Heal Bell. Most likely the latter given that some have either learned it before, got it from XD (Lapras and Amphy are there, but Articuno and Mightyena are absent though), or just look like they would.

This is indeed very much like Heal Bell.

 

[A.P.]

Heal Bell Uxie would be nice in UU.

Speaking of tutor moves, I'm guessing this is Shadow Sneak.

[ghost?]
Vulpix, Ninetales, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Grimer, Muk, Gastly, Haunter, Gengar, Koffing, Weezing, Tangela, Staryu, Starmie, Porygon, Mew, Igglybuff, Natu, Xatu, Misdreavus, Pineco, Forretress, Dunsparce, Qwilfish, Slugma, Magcargo, Porygon2, Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir, Nosepass, Sableye, Mawile, Meditite, Medicham, Gulpin, Swalot, Lunatone, Solrock, Lileep, Cradily, Shuppet, Banette, Duskull, Dusclops, Rampardos, Shellos, Gastrodon, Drifloon, Drifblim, Mismagius, Spiritomb, Tangrowth, Porygon-Z, Gallade, Probopass, Dusknoir, Froslass, Rotom, Giratina

And Encore?

Clefairy, Clefable, Vulpix, Ninetales, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Psyduck, Golduck, Mankey, Primeape, Abra, Kadabra, Alakazam, Machop, Machoke, Machamp, Gengar, Drowzee, Hypno, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Tauros, Mewtwo, Mew, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Sudowoodo, Aipom, Houndour, Houndoom, Stantler, Tyrogue, Hitmontop, Smoochum, Blaziken, Makuhita, Hariyama, Sableye, Meditite, Medicham, Spoink, Grumpig, Spinda, Cacnea, Cacturne, Kecleon, Shuppet, Banette, Absol, Latias, Deoxys, Chimchar, Monferno, Infernape, Ambipom, Bonsly, Mime Jr., Chatot, Riolu, Lucario, Croagunk, Toxicroak, Snover, Abomasnow, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Deoxys-A, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S

 

[Blackhawk11]

Here are a few guesses for the time being:

Rattata, Raticate...: Looks like some kind of biting move, as MH mentioned, Pokemon with fangs get it. Therefore, it's likely Crunch/Bite/Poison Fang.

[ghost?]: This one looks like Curse to me. Edit: Shadow Sneak is actually more probable.

[Defog?]: Yeah, probably Defog. But why on earth does Finneon/Lumineon get it?

[grass?]: Not sure, but the only two Pokemon who aren't Grass-type are Psyduck and Golduck. Any ideas?

second [???] starting with clefairy: This one looks like Zap Cannon.

Golduck, Mankey...: Mach Punch. It's gotta be. If not it's likely a fighting-type move.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Shadow Sneak? I was thinking something along the lines of Grudge or something, its a bit odd that Starmie or Tangela would shadow SNEAK their way in...

 

[Age of Kings]

Shadow Sneak Medicham? Holy shit if that's true. Huge Power and priority is fun and does compliment Medicham's current movepool to some extent.