the reason i rng over pokesav now
1) my AR can't connect with AR code manager because i'm stuck on vista 64-bit
2) i feel accomplished for doing rng stuff
i personally don't mind people using SAV but some people do, and it's their choice to do so
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Differences in Competitive Play between WiFi and Shoddy
- Thread starter kokoloko
- Start date
1) my AR can't connect with AR code manager because i'm stuck on vista 64-bit
2) i feel accomplished for doing rng stuff
i personally don't mind people using SAV but some people do, and it's their choice to do so
All I can say is "eh".
There are those who complain that they "don't have enough time to breed/ catch good Pokemon", and to me, that's a horrible argument, but whatever.
I breed all of my own Pokemon, and only use legitimately acquired Pokemon in wifi battles. I guess it's a matter of "Well I worked hard to get these Pokemon, so why should I battle someone who just created them on a program?".
I don't hack, but I don't mind playing against people who do as long as they disclose it. ps: Berating people for playing legitimately is kind of a dick thing to do.
Too many hackers are careless anyway, making things like impossible move/Pokeball combinations or illegal Hidden Power spreads or what have you. I'd prefer to not have to worry about stuff like that.
I really have no problem with hacking, but if you're going to hack then why not play shoddy? :) I've used hacked pokemon plenty of times before just to play or test teams, but its very satisfying to build legitimate teams and pokemon and battle them. Its part of the experience of the game that a lot of Shoddy battlers miss out on.
I don't really mind pokesaved pokemon, its just when people create what they call 'legit hacks' when they create a flawless wish blissey, celebi and whatnot. Thats what gets annoying, I mean you can't exactly find a usable wish bliss without completely hacking it, yet they can. Also That I worked hard for my pokemon, I don't RNG either, I dislike how anyone can have equal or marginally better pokemon by just creating a pokemon >.>
Pretty much agree with the rest of the people here. For me, Shoddy gives me more variety in sets I can use, like Wish Salamence, and HP Fire Celebi (Both very hard to get in the wi-fier world). Shoddy also lends me a helping hand in that when I hover over a pokeball, I can immediately know what my opponent still has, not having to keep track, like on wi-fi. Just mainly a few small details.
I actually don't sav non rng but I have a pretty good record in wifi battling, I agree though I don't like poke sav since well the people who work hard to rng can't top poke sav while poke savers can make the same pokemon in minutes while the people who work hard would take hours.
I like to look at it the other way. RNG abuse allows you to match what hackers can do without hacking. If it weren't for the discovery of RNG abuse, hackers would have a much greater time advantage in battling.
I wouldn't call RNG abuse not hacking, its pretty much borderline hacking, I mean RNG is ok, but it also kind of means that pokemon pre RNG are basically useless, I guess I was lucky to make sure most of my guys were high standard, otherwise I would get no trades in todays wifi section.
They only become useless if you're talking about trading lol. People will obviously want the best bang for their buck in a trade. Non-RNG bred Pokemon with solid but imperfect IVs can more than hold their own in a battle.
Yes, there is always a minute possibility that those 3-4 fewer HP IVs on your sweeper could be the difference between a win and a loss. But since you're probably not getting in hundreds of Wifi battles (unlike the Shoddy ladder), you might not even be in a situation where those few IVs might matter.
Hidden Power would be the exception because having that extra type coverage move affects the outcome of a battle a whole lot more.
I think that one diference is the qualty of pokemon you use. sure there is pokésave, but if you don't use it, it is nearly imposble to max ivs in one stat, never mind 6. In some ways I like the animations a lot. there is also more noobs who don't ev train.
The OP hit the point I was going to make about not using stallish teams, because with the battle animations and Sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery, battles can take up to an hour when they'd only take 15 or 20 minutes on Shoddy.
And I'm sure this was mentioned, but outside of AR (or RNG), it's really hard to get a good nature plus good IVs plus egg moves. So unless you are versing some Pokesav person, you won't really see WishBliss all too often.
And I'm sure this was mentioned, but outside of AR (or RNG), it's really hard to get a good nature plus good IVs plus egg moves. So unless you are versing some Pokesav person, you won't really see WishBliss all too often.
I hack. Its fun. Other than my kickass Raikou anything I've ever hacked is 100% legit. Just don't have time to be doing all that breeding and shit (it really is a time thing for me.. working full time and engineering school and shit). I don't see what's wrong with hacking anyway. I'd be happy to hack a pokemon for you.
As long as my opponent's pokemon don't prevent me from uploading videos on GTS, it's all good.
Anyway, I can't seem to get a wifi battle that doesn't involve UU pokes (or lower) in standard. Also, I have never seen so many electivire on shoddy (due to the ladder system, I know electivire actually gets a lot of usage there too).
edit: I never realized my team had such a weakness to lead sandslash.
Anyway, I can't seem to get a wifi battle that doesn't involve UU pokes (or lower) in standard. Also, I have never seen so many electivire on shoddy (due to the ladder system, I know electivire actually gets a lot of usage there too).
edit: I never realized my team had such a weakness to lead sandslash.
It would be amazing for a single NU like Sandslash to weaken, let alone take out, an entire standard OU team like yours!
We set up rocks together, I switched out as it spun them, then it super fanged me. Later on it haxed me with sand veil and killed my infernape (who was going to revenge-finish it with CC).
I was not a happy camper.
I was not a happy camper.
There really isn't a big difference anymore as there's an influx of douchebag cheaters.
Controversial topic, tbqh. My stance is that as long as your hacks are legit (if you take the time to check legal nature-IV combos and keep a 510 EV limit), I could care less. I just don't use Pokesav because those damn codes broke my first AR. Note, kiddies, never try savving a Pure Power Regigigas. Arceus will find you and break your AR.
This is probably a really invalid point and I'll get twenty replies telling me I'm an idiot, but you see a lot more "dumb" people on WiFi as opposed to Shoddy. For the most part, people who know about Shoddy go on Smogon, and again for the most part, people on Smogon are relatively smart when it comes to competitive battling. On WiFi, you can really feign as a complete idiot and bring a team of Ho-oh and stuff, and all you need is a wifi point to do so. :/
I've also been a lurker for a long time. Played a bit on shoddy and a bit on wifi, never too brilliantly, but oh, well.
First of all i want to make clear that when i refer to wifi and the wifi metagame, i don't go with "joined randompokechat, asked for a battle, go with it" but with a high level play, as smogon, tournaments on big forums/sites, etc.
I don't really think that the wi-fi metagame develops slower than the shoddy metagame, but, as it has been pointed before, just differently. Not being able of playing with rotom-a means way more than one less poke. Things like SDLuke now can use ice punch / Stone edge as superior options to Crunch because of less chance of a ghost appearing (and gengar failing to resist any of them anyway). As some people have already pointed out, stall is way less useable on wifi, and i don't think it's because of the unpredictability of the metagame, but more of the time factor; playing for one hour is boring even for the stall player. The wi-fi problems adds to this factor, more time for match means more chance of a connection error. I don't think it develops slower as a bunch of players are from smogon, and probably use similar tactics and pokes to shoddy/smogon analysis, but just adapting them to a more fast-paced and rotom-a-less metagame. Heracross is probably better as some of its counters dissapear. Spinners can be more useful as the main spinblocker is also gone.
As a different point, even competitively, people are probably playing more pokemon that they like. If you just wanna play to win/be-the-very-best without caring about what you use (providing it's legal), you have shoddy. More battles in the same amount of time means more chances to win, a way easier and faster method for changing/creating/fixing teams and test them. In Wi-fi, you have to see them for 15-30 mins each combat, and you have probably put some effort on them (unless you sav/ar).
On the other hand we know how shoddy is. Fast battles (even stall wars last for less time than a full offensive battle on wifi), fast teambuilding, fast editing, every option available. Maybe you can even think a bit less and play "test and error", just adding things you consider good and then change them as you test them.
Those points and some more i'm probably missing define a slightly different metagame. If you think different when you are teambuilding, you are obviously getting different results. That directs to a different final metagame. The similarities between them are probably due to smogon's famous tiering system affecting almost every player/forum/site and an obvious quality layer for some pokes.
Going a bit off-topic to the AR/sav discussion, for common battles i just think that saving/editing isn't even logical. If what you want is speed, go for shoddy. You can make your team even faster than with sav. If what you want is nice battles, you don't need the perfect IVs, and EV training with pkrus and the power items doesn't last more than an hour. The only option i see viable is for a tournament, ok, you don't have time to build a full team and train them, but for tournaments, i don't see as an option to allow sav/AR as people who don't own an AR or a flashcard are in direct disadvantage.
First of all i want to make clear that when i refer to wifi and the wifi metagame, i don't go with "joined randompokechat, asked for a battle, go with it" but with a high level play, as smogon, tournaments on big forums/sites, etc.
I don't really think that the wi-fi metagame develops slower than the shoddy metagame, but, as it has been pointed before, just differently. Not being able of playing with rotom-a means way more than one less poke. Things like SDLuke now can use ice punch / Stone edge as superior options to Crunch because of less chance of a ghost appearing (and gengar failing to resist any of them anyway). As some people have already pointed out, stall is way less useable on wifi, and i don't think it's because of the unpredictability of the metagame, but more of the time factor; playing for one hour is boring even for the stall player. The wi-fi problems adds to this factor, more time for match means more chance of a connection error. I don't think it develops slower as a bunch of players are from smogon, and probably use similar tactics and pokes to shoddy/smogon analysis, but just adapting them to a more fast-paced and rotom-a-less metagame. Heracross is probably better as some of its counters dissapear. Spinners can be more useful as the main spinblocker is also gone.
As a different point, even competitively, people are probably playing more pokemon that they like. If you just wanna play to win/be-the-very-best without caring about what you use (providing it's legal), you have shoddy. More battles in the same amount of time means more chances to win, a way easier and faster method for changing/creating/fixing teams and test them. In Wi-fi, you have to see them for 15-30 mins each combat, and you have probably put some effort on them (unless you sav/ar).
On the other hand we know how shoddy is. Fast battles (even stall wars last for less time than a full offensive battle on wifi), fast teambuilding, fast editing, every option available. Maybe you can even think a bit less and play "test and error", just adding things you consider good and then change them as you test them.
Those points and some more i'm probably missing define a slightly different metagame. If you think different when you are teambuilding, you are obviously getting different results. That directs to a different final metagame. The similarities between them are probably due to smogon's famous tiering system affecting almost every player/forum/site and an obvious quality layer for some pokes.
Going a bit off-topic to the AR/sav discussion, for common battles i just think that saving/editing isn't even logical. If what you want is speed, go for shoddy. You can make your team even faster than with sav. If what you want is nice battles, you don't need the perfect IVs, and EV training with pkrus and the power items doesn't last more than an hour. The only option i see viable is for a tournament, ok, you don't have time to build a full team and train them, but for tournaments, i don't see as an option to allow sav/AR as people who don't own an AR or a flashcard are in direct disadvantage.
So why is the wifi forum filled with hex flawless Pokemon?
Of course people care about IV's on wifi.
