Ludicolo (UU Analysis)

Flora · Jun 30, 2010

Status: 2/2 GP Checks; may be uploaded

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ludicolo

[Overview]

Ludicolo is one of the most essential Rain Dance sweepers because of his Grass typing, which allows him to strike down the annoying Water-type Pokemon who cause havoc for Rain Dance teams. In the rain, he outruns the majority of UU Pokemon and has enough power to slay them with Energy Ball, Surf, and Ice Beam. Ludicolo also has impressive special bulk, enabling him to stay in and set up against a wide range of foes. Lastly, Ludicolo has access to Swords Dance and an adequate physical movepool, which allows him to foil foes who think he's running a special moveset.

However, Ludicolo has a couple of problems. His base 90 Special Attack is not especially impressive, even when using Surf inthe rain. Ludicolo can also be picked off easily by a number a priority moves, such as ExtremeSpeed, Fake Out, Quick Attack, and Mach Punch. Even then, Ludicolo stands out as a useful Rain Dance abuser who helps keep the offensive momentum going.

[SET]
name: UU Offensive Rain (Special)
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rain Dance / Hidden Power Psychic / Focus Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This set aims to sweep through teams once Rain Dance is present. As Ludicolo is usually paired with other Rain Dance sweepers, his main role is to remove Water-type Pokemon who may annoy them.

In the rain, Surf will be the main source of damage. If Ludicolo needs more power, then Hydro Pump is a great alternative. Energy Ball allows Ludicolo to strike down Water-type Pokemon who resist Ludicolo's Water attacks. Ice Beam hits Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria for super effective damage. Surf, Energy Ball, and Ice Beam grant Ludicolo great coverage, leaving the fourth slot open for a support move. Rain Dance lets Ludicolo set up rain to maintain offensive momentum. Hidden Power Psychic OHKOes Toxicroak, while Focus Punch can be used to hit Clefable and Chansey while they recover.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

To figure out if you need to use Surf or Hydro Pump on Ludicolo, here are some damage calculations:

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Surf vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 40.7% - 48.1% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 51.1% - 60.2% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 86.9% - 100% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 100% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Jolly Mesprit: 78.7% - 93% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Jolly Mesprit: 99.4% - 100% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 39% - 46% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 49.2% - 57.9% </li>
</ul>

As seen inthe calculations, there are several cases where Hydro Pump's increased Base Powerchanges 2HKOes into OHKOes. If you're not worried about such Pokemon or have Stealth Rock on your team, then you should use Surf.

When using Focus Punch, you should change the nature to Mild and move the HP EVs to Attack. Grass Knot is also an option over Energy Ball for increased damage on Milotic, but Energy Ball is sufficient enough to 2HKO Milotic EVed in Defense. Energy Ball also deals more damage to Lanturn and Azumarill, with a high chance of OHKOing the latter with Stealth Rock damage.

The EV spread provides Ludicolo with maximum power and enough Speed to outrun most of the UU metagame. 224 Speed EVs put Ludicolo at 464 Speed in the rain, allowing him to outrun Timid Choice Scarf Rotom by two points. The remaining Speed EVs are placed into HP for additional bulk. You can also move the HP EVs into Speed if you want to at worst Speed tie withother Ludicolo.

It should also be noted that Ludicolo can perform on a standard team despite the lack of Rain Dance abusers present on his side. This may seem odd, but using Rain Dance is essentially using Agility, but with the added bonus of increasing the power of Surf.

Pokemon who can survive an attack from Ludicolo and paralyze him, such as Registeel, Clefable, and Lanturn, are a general annoyance. Although Registeel and Lanturn may die the next turn after they use Thunder Wave, Ludicolo will be helpless when the next Pokemon appears. Also, Clefable can stall the rain turns out by using Softboiled repeatedly, waiting for Ludicolo to be fully paralyzed. Rain Dance Lanturn can help against Registeel, absorbing the Thunder Wave and striking back with boosted Surfs or Hydro Pumps. Lum Berry Toxicroak can switch in on Clefable and threaten with Cross Chop. Against Lanturn, Quagsire could be used to absorb Electric-type moves and attack with Earthquake. Dugtrio can be used to trap and eliminate Lanturn, Registeel, and Clefable. Using a Registeel yourself would also be usefu since it can Explode on Clefable or Lanturn.

Chansey is a big problem for this Ludicolo since she is only 5HKOed (with Leftovers factored in) by Hydro Pump, while she can cripple Ludicolo with either Thunder Wave or Toxic. Again, Lum Berry Toxicroak can be helpful against Chansey by absorbing a Thunder Wave or Toxic and striking back with Cross Chop. Dugtrio can also switch in on a Thunder Wave and strike Chansey down with two Earthquakes.

[SET]
name: UU Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant
evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

While Ludicolo is generally seen as a special sweeper, this set can surprise opponents who switch in their special walls on Ludicolo. With a Swords Dance set up, Ludicolo reaches 524 Attack, which is deadly factoring in rain, which improves Waterfall's damage and Ludicolo's Speed, Life Orb, and great coverage.

Swords Dance is the purpose of this set, allowing Ludicolo to boost his pitiful Attack stat to greater levels. Waterfall gives Ludicolo a strong STAB attack in the rain while also having a 20% chance to flinch lethal targets. Seed Bomb uses Ludicolo's secondary STAB to strike down Water-type Pokemon. Ice Punch rounds the set off by hitting Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Adamant and max Attack is needed to give Ludicolo's base 70 Attack as much power as possible. The Speed EVs, like those on the special set, are geared to outrunning Timid Choice Scarf Rotom. Lastly, the remainingEVs are dumped into HP for additional bulk.

In the last slot, Ice Punch is generally the preferred option for striking down Grass-types and Altaria, but Zen Headbutt can be used for eliminating Toxicroak while still hitting Venusaur.

Ludicolo appreciates other Rain Dance sweepers who can wear down the opposing team so Ludicolo can finish off the rest. Kabutops and Qwilfish can pair up with Ludicolo as additional Swords Dance sweepers to further break down the opponent's team. Omastar and Gorebyss can aid Ludicolo by attacking on the special side.

Pokemon who can set up Rain Dance are beneficial to Ludicolo's ability to sweep. Uxie, Rotom, and Lanturn can all back up Ludicolo well, with Rotom and Lanturn covering Ludicolo's Flying weakness. Rotom also covers Ludicolo's Bug weakness as a bonus.

[Team Options]

Stealth Rock is necessary to obtain multiple OHKOs that Ludicolo could not obtain withoutHydro Pump. Regardless, the chip damage is useful overallin aiding Ludicolo and his team to deal as much damage as possible. Stealth Rock also punishes Pokemon attempting to repeatedly switch out to stall the rain turns.

Ludicolo appreciates Rain Dance being set up early in the game. Electrode, Ambipom, and Uxie are able to do this impressively, with the former two having Taunt and the latter having impressive bulk. Electrode and Uxie both have the option of sacrificing themselves to let Ludicolo come in freely.

For backup, Ludicolo usually wants a handful of other Swift Swim Pokemon to aid in the sweeping. Since Ludicolo is usually able to destroy the enemy's Water-type Pokemon who annoy the other Swift Swimmers, the other Rain Dance sweepers should be able to freely run down the remaining Pokemon. Kabutops, Qwilfish, Omastar, and Gorebyss are great sweepers to consider alongside Ludicolo, with the first two being able to use Swords Dance and the last two being powerful special attackers.

Lastly, a defensive Rain Dance user should be considered in case Ludicolo needs to fall back, either because the rain has subsided or because Ludicolo cannot break through the enemy. Pokemon such as Registeel, Lanturn, and Rotom are great users of Rain Dance with their bulk and typing. Registeel is able to withstand a multitude of attacks, negate its Fire weakness with Rain Dance, and give a free switch-in for Ludicolo with Explosion. It can also set up the helpful Stealth Rock. Lanturn and Rotom are able to fire off 100% accurate Thunders in the rain, with Lanturn having an added bonus of having his Water-type STAB attacks boosted. All three also cover Ludicolo's Flying-type weakness, with Registeel coveringLudicolo's Bug- and Poison-type weakness as a bonus.

[Optional Changes]

There aren't many other moves to use other than the ones already mentioned. Synthesis has potential outside of Rain Dance for restoring Life Orb recoil or just healing HP in general. Fake Out could potentially be useful on a Ludicolo who switches out frequently for chip damage, but it won't deal much damage. Icy Wind has its use for lowering the foe's Speed, but Ludicolo will likely already have his Speed boosted via rain. Return on the Swords Dance sweeper could work for overall neutral coverage, but the lack of super effective moves will hinder Ludicolo against specific foes.

A Substitute + Leech Seed combination looks fine at first sight, but it is actually mediocre. Ludicolo will become walled by Grass-types (excluding standard Leafeon or Tangrowth) because his Ice Beam will be weakened as a result of pumping EVs into HP and Special Defense and running a defensive nature. It also doesn't help that Ludicolo takes neutral damage from Grass-type moves.

[Counters]

Chansey can switch into a Life Orb rain-boosted Surf without taking too much damage from Ludicolo and Thunder Wave or Toxic him. Then, Chansey can stall out the rain with repeated Softboileds or wear Ludicolo down with Seismic Toss. Clefable can do the same, but she must be wary of switching into Surf or Hydro Pump as it will 2HKO her. Both of these Pokemon must beware of the Swords Dance set, however. Toxicroak is a viable counter to any set without a Psychic-type attack due to his Dry Skin ability and resistance to Grass-type attacks.

Against the Swords Dance set, physically defensive Tangrowth and Leafeon can survive an Ice Punch and threaten back with Sleep Powder or Leaf Blade. Any Hitmontop can threaten physical Ludicolo with either impressive physical bulk and Intimidate or Technician plus Fake Out and Mach Punch. Uxie can usually survive an assault and paralyze Ludicolo with Thunder Wave, but it will end up crippled.

Switching to Pokemon on a predicted attack to outstall the rain is usually the best idea. For example, you can switch in Milotic on a Surf or Ice Beam and then switch to Registeel to take the incoming Energy Ball, and repeat. Doing this also lets Ludicolo take in more Life Orb recoil so you can finally pick it off with a priority move such as Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed, Hitmontop's Mach Punch, or Scyther's Quick Attack. Pokemon already under a Substitute or with Protect are also great at stalling out Ludicolo's rain.

If all else fails, the best strategy is to let your least important Pokemon faint and then switch in the Pokemon who takes the least amount of damage from all of Ludicolo's attacks.

eric the espeon · Jul 1, 2010

For reference, I've grabbed the old "UU" (it was actually almost entirely OU) analysis from SCMS:

[Overview]
<h4>UU</h4>

Ludicolo is often an underrated Pokémon. It does an efficient job of handling Starmie and performs adequately against any Gyarados without Stone Edge. It can switch with ease into all other standard Water Pokémon, in particular Swampert, but beware of Milotic's Hypnosis. Overall, Ludicolo is a solid choice on most teams, capable of providing good support and even makes a surprisingly decent sweeper.

[SET]
name: Rain Support
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Surf / Grass Knot
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Leech Seed
item: Leftovers
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Calm
EVs: 204 HP / 76 SpA / 124 SpD / 104 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
If you desire weather support, Ludicolo is a fine choice to provide it. He can scare off Hippowdon, hurt Tyranitar with his STAB moves (although switching in directly is risky) and sponge Abomasnow's Blizzard very well. Surf will help against Heracross and is boosted by the Rain, while Grass Knot lets you hurt other Waters.

The EV spread generates just enough Special Attack to guarantee an OHKO on minimum HP Salamence (who fails to OHKO with Choice Specs Draco Meteor), and just enough HP for the highest possible Leftovers threshold.

[SET]
name: Offensive Rain (Special)
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rain Dance / Focus Punch
item: Life Orb / Damp Rock
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Although Ludicolo is usually looked upon as a defensive Pokémon capable of taking special hits, it does have the ability to sweep due to its 90 base Special Attack, Swift Swim, and powerful STAB options. Surf allows Ludicolo to function more efficiently as a late game sweeper because it does not need to rely on Hydro Pump's 80% accuracy. Hydro Pump in rain OHKOs 4 HP Metagross (hitting those Metagross with max HP for a minimum of 90%) and some Machamp while dealing 92% minimum to 252 HP / 100 SpD Bold Rotom-Appliance. Grass Knot guarantees a 2HKO against bulky Gyarados with Life Orb and has a 67% chance to OHKO offensive Life Orb Suicune; meaning that if Suicune attacks, it will faint. Energy Ball is mainly used so Vaporeon does not stall with Protect and Wish, causing Ludicolo to faint from Life Orb recoil. It should also be mentioned that Energy Ball only 2HKOs Bulky Gyarados with Stealth Rock support. Ice Beam nets a quick OHKO against Salamence and Dragonite who resist Water and Grass. Rain Dance can be used in the last slot if the team needs additional support or if Ludicolo wishes to be a self-sufficient sweeper. If Ludicolo already has Rain Dance support from an outside source, Hidden Power Bug is a decent option because of its ability to OHKO Celebi with Stealth Rock 74% of the time. With 120 Atk EVs, Focus Punch can be used to hit standard Blissey hard, dealing upwards of 74% damage to 0 HP / 252 Def variants. Surf, in rain, inflicts lethal damage when combined with the damage dealt by Focus Punch.

With the specified EVs and nature, Ludicolo reaches 478 Speed after Rain Dance and ties with max Speed Pokémon with base 70 Speed. This allows Ludicolo to outspeed Pokémon with 105 base Speed, a positive nature, and Choice Scarf in rain. Maximum Special Attack is a given on a set with such an offensive focus. With an odd numbered HP, Ludicolo can switch into Stealth Rock an extra turn without fainting. When using Focus Punch, a spread of 120 Atk / 252 SpA / 136 Spe is recommended, allowing Ludicolo to KO standard Blissey with Focus Punch and Surf. With 136 Spe EVs, Ludicolo outspeeds +1 neutral base 85 Pokémon in rain.

Life Orb is the preferred item on this set because it secures KOs against many foes with Surf, Hydro Pump, Grass Knot, and Energy Ball. Without Life Orb, Ludicolo loses the guaranteed 2HKO against bulky Gyarados with Grass Knot. Damp Rock boosts the duration of rain and thus the number of turns that Ludicolo benefits from it.

<h3>Grass Knot or Energy Ball?</h3>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Grass Knot vs. max HP Milotic 76 - 89%</li>
<li>Energy Ball vs. max HP Milotic: 59 - 71%</li>
<li>Grass Knot vs. 4 HP Suicune: 93 - 111%</li>
<li>Energy Ball vs. 4 HP Suicune: 75 - 89%</li>
<li>Grass Knot vs. 216 HP Gyarados: 56 - 66%</li>
<li>Energy Ball vs. 216 HP Gyarados: 37 - 44%</li>
<li>Grass Knot vs. 188 HP Vaporeon: 51 - 60%</li>
<li>Energy Ball vs. 188 HP Vaporeon: 67 - 79%</li>
</ul>

[SET]
name: Stall
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Surf / Grass Knot
move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Hit your enemies with Leech Seed and Protect to regain HP, while theirs is slowly drained. Either STAB move is useful. Surf hurts Steels like Skarmory and helps to wear down an incoming Heracross. Grass Knot does decent damage to Gyarados, in case he hits Ludicolo with Taunt. Toxic makes Ludicolo an even bigger pain, just beware of hitting Heracross with it, although you do have Protect to scout what it is planning to do next. Ice Beam hits other Grass-types, but it won't really threaten the likes of Celebi and Venusaur. Still, it never hurts to have something to batter Salamence with. This set works even better with support from Toxic Spikes.

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Surf
move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hydro Pump / Focus Punch
item: Choice Specs
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Ludicolo's 90 SpA isn't the reason to use it over other Choice Specs candidates, as those generally have higher values. Instead, it should emphasize on the fact that it is still relatively bulky and has a large number of resistances that allow it to come in on a number of common threats, as well as a unique dual STAB combination which can make switching in a daunting prospect. Surf is your main STAB attack that should be used commonly for your Water attack. Grass Knot is generally a better choice than Energy Ball as the vast majority of Pokémon you will be using it on are rather heavy and so take more damage from Grass Knot. However, locking yourself into Grass Knot allows lighter Pokémon such as Gengar and Azelf to come in much more easily than they would do otherwise. Energy Ball also allows you to OHKO Vaporeon; however, Vaporeon is 2HKOed by Grass Knot, so it is a worthwhile consideration.

Ice Beam provides coverage against foes such as Salamence, Celebi and Dragonite, all of whom can come in very easily otherwise and set up on Ludicolo. Focus Punch is a decent filler option doing around 43% minimum to the most defensive Blissey possible. Hydro Pump is a useful STAB Water move that can still be punishing more bulkier opponents with the immediate power despite the low PP and the accuracy. Although not mentioned Hidden Power Bug can eliminate Celebi from stopping your sweep though keep in mind that Ice Beam is already a 2HKO. This set, when Rain Dance is in play, will allow Ludicolo to outpace any neutral natured Salamence before a Dragon Dance, and OHKO even the bulkiest variants with Ice Beam.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Ice Punch
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Physical Ludicolo is bound to take your opponent off guard, expecting a purely special version or SubSeeder. With Ludicolo's great typing, it can easily come in on a wide variety of threats and force them out, netting Ludicolo a free Swords Dance. From there, Ludicolo can sweep with boosted Seed Bombs and Waterfalls. Ice Punch is included on this set to counter bulky Grass Pokémon and Dragons.

This set is best used on a Rain Dance team where Swift Swim will allow Ludicolo to outrun almost everything, aiding in its sweep. It should be noted that this set also works fabulously in Ubers. With the omnipotence of Kyogre, Ludicolo can be supplied with infinite rain and can abuse this to its full potential. When using Swords Dance Ludicolo in Ubers, Jolly is the best nature to use, as it allows Ludicolo to outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp in the rain (and thus OHKO it with Ice Punch), and to outspeed most Rock Polish Groudon before they boost their Speed. Brick Break is also a reasonable option on Swords Dance Ludicolo in Ubers due to its ability to 2HKO Dialga after one Swords Dance (only with Life Orb).

Rain Dance can be used over Ice Punch if you want to activate Swift Swim yourself, but Salamence and Celebi switch in for free then.

Life Orb is the preferred option since Ludicolo's Attack stat isn't the most impressive, but Leftovers can be used for greater survivability.

[Optional Changes]

<h4>UU</h4>

Seismic Toss gives you consistent damage against everything barring Ghosts, and helps against the likes of Calm Mind/Sub Raikou. Hidden Power Electric is an option if you really fear Gyarados, although Grass Knot already puts nice dent in him, ThunderPunch for those who cannot manipulate Hidden Power at will. Giga Drain and Energy Ball make alternative Grass attacks to Grass Knot, but in standard play most things you'd use them against are heavy enough to make Grass Knot worth it—think Tyranitar and Milotic—while things you wouldn't want to be stuck with Grass Knot against such as Porygon-Z and Azelf can be taken care of with Surf.

Rest is a recovery option for Ludicolo and removes other status for all it's worth, you'll want to back it up with Aromatherapy or Ludicolo can become a liability.

Zen Headbutt can be used on the Swords Dance set if you for some odd reason fear Toxicroak. Fake Out is there if you want it (only realistically viable in 2v2 play). Rain Dish is rarely a better choice than Swift Swim.

202 speed should be a minimum on Rain Dance sets, so you can outrun Choice Scarf Heracross. You don't really need any more Speed than that, although bumping Ludicolo up to 222 to outrun Adamant Tyranitar isn't a bad idea. You can add a few more EVs to hit an initial Speed of 228, which outruns most Gliscor before you set up, and Choice Scarf Salamence after Rain Dance is active. Maximum Speed is never a bad choice as well.

76 Special Attack EVs lets you OHKO most Salamence. On all defensive sets, focus on HP is recommended before working on Special Defense. Without Leftovers, make Special Defense and HP as equal as possible (with the odd point in HP).

[Counters]

<h4>UU</h4>

Without Surf, Heracross is switching into Ludicolo every time. Even with Surf, it is as good an opportunity as any. Toxicroak absorbs Surf and shrugs off Grass Knot, and is also immune to Toxic. Tentacruel takes Surf and Ice Beam like a pro, turns Leech Seed against you with Liquid Ooze, is immune to Toxic and can massacre Ludicolo with STABed Poison Jabs or Sludge Bombs. Celebi can stall Ludicolo and set up Calm Minds, and it nearly always survives two Ice Beams. He might eat a critical hit in the long run though. If Ludicolo leaves the house without Ice Beam, it is set-up fodder for Salamence and Dragonite. Blissey and Snorlax shrugs off his attacks, but both of them will hate Leech Seed.

For the Swords Dance set, Skarmory can easily take it on either Whirlwinding any Swords Dances it has netted or just killing it off with STAB Flying attacks. Cresselia can wear it down with Ice Beam and sponge its hits by setting up a Reflect. Dusknoir and Spiritomb are bulky enough to handle a Swords Danced Waterfall and can burn it with Will-O-Wisp.

Quite funny that a UU Pokemon has an OU and an Ubers analysis without a UU one.. Would be good to have this up before too long.

kd24 · Jul 1, 2010

[SET]
name: UU Offensive Rain (Special)
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rain Dance
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Aids Swift Swim sweepers by eliminating troublesome Water-types
-Deals enough damage to be threatening and can reset the rain

Additional Comments:
-Max Speed

Teammates and Counters:
-Wants Rain Dance sweepers such as Kabutops, Omastar, and Qwilfish
-Wants defensive Rain Dancers such as Lanturn, Registeel, and Claydol
-Chansey, Registeel, Clefable counter by outstalling rain and using Thunder Wave

You have to mention why Hydro Pump would be used, let alone recommended over Surf as the number 1 option. If there are calcs to back up the claim of using Hydro Pump, you definitely should post them, as giving away free turns from missing is like number 1 on what you don't want to do on a rain dance team. I would also suggest slashing Rain Dance in the last slot with Focus Punch to hit Chansey switch-ins or at least very special clefables.

Also, why not use max Speed, unless those HP EVs do something important? Getting the jump on other Ludicolo in Rain (which is pretty unlikely but could at least happen), seems more important than 8 extra points in HP. yeah "lo number" but Ludicolo is a Pokemon who could always use the extra speed (especially with a lot of scarfers hanging around).

[SET]
name: UU Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant
evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Unexpected
-Aids Swift Swim sweepers by eliminating troublesome Water-types
-Beats a different set of Pokemon (Chansey and Clefable)

Additional Comments:
-Max Speed
-Zen Headbutt hits Toxicroak while also hitting Venusaur but loses coverage on Tangrowth
-Can use Rain Dance in last slot in exchange for less coverage

Teammates and Counters:
-Wants Rain Dance sweepers such as Kabutops, Omastar, and Qwilfish
-Wants defensive Rain Dancers such as Lanturn, Registeel, and Claydol
-Physically-defensive Tangrowth survives a boosted Ice Punch and can Sleep Powder, Leafeon survives Ice Punch and can Wish+Protect stall or Leaf Blade/Roar, Hitmontop Intimidates or can deal massive damage with its TechniTop set, Uxie lives +2 Waterfall and can TWave back, and Toxicroak if no Zen Headbutt

uh, if everything ice punch is used for is surviving it, I think zen headbutt should be option number 1 to hit rains biggest threat in my opinion, Toxicroak (dry skin/priority). keep ice punch mentioned though, because you forgot that it also hits altaria for a ohko which is nice. once again, i prefer just 4 hp 252 atk 252 spe on analysis but to each his own.

[SET]
name: UU SubSeeder
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Surf
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Leftovers
ability: Rain Dish
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
-Bulky and annoying
-Has the advantage of striking down Grass-types with Ice Beam
-Does good against some of the usual counters, such as Chansey, Hitmontop (somewhat), and Registeel

Additional Comments:
-Timid max Speed can be used outside of rain
-Swift Swim in rain to outspeed status users or Pokemon that can OHKO Ludicolo while repeatedly using Substitute

Teammates and Counters:
-Wants Rain Dance sweepers such as Kabutops, Omastar, and Qwilfish
-Wants defensive Rain Dancers such as Lanturn, Registeel, and Claydol; Rotom is also good here
-Clefable, specially-defensive Venusaur, Encore users (Alakazam mostly), Taunt

you definitely need a better universal counter to these last few pokemon, pursuit/sucker punch/fire blast/dark pulse houndoom is definitely a good pokemon worthy of consideration for taking out venusaur and alakazam but im sure there are plenty of choices you could use. mention toxic spikes support for late game, as well as toxicroak being another big counter for it because of dry skin / speed / attack / toxic spikes absorbtion.

[Team Options]
-Stealth Rock can change some 2HKOs to OHKOs on offensive sets
-Kabutops, Omastar, Qwilfish, Gorebyss as SS sweepers
-Lanturn, Registeel, Claydol, Rotom as backbone RD supporters
-Uxie, Electrode, Ambipom as RD leads

[Optional Changes]
-Synthesis outside of rain
-Substitute + Focus Punch or Focus Punch in general

[Counters]
-Listed in each individual set
-Predicted switches to stall rain

i would never use synthesis outside of rain because then you are just becoming a worse venusaur, which is dumb. i would mention focus punch in the first set though.

EDIT: would like to say sub/beat up/earthquake lo/soft sand dugtrio is a good teammate to set number 1 because it can trap and ko chansey with beat up, sub and then eq toxicroak, and beat registeel.

Flora · Jul 1, 2010

Thanks ete!

kd24 said:
You have to mention why Hydro Pump would be used, let alone recommended over Surf as the number 1 option. If there are calcs to back up the claim of using Hydro Pump, you definitely should post them, as giving away free turns from missing is like number 1 on what you don't want to do on a rain dance team. I would also suggest slashing Rain Dance in the last slot with Focus Punch to hit Chansey switch-ins or at least very special clefables.

Yeah, Hydro Pump does do several cool stuff (all in the rain, max SAtk, LO):

Surf vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 40.7% - 48.1%
Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 51.1% - 60.2%
Surf vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 86.9% - 100% (not too common)
Hydro Pump vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 100%
Surf vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Timid Mesprit: 78.7% - 93%
Hydro Pump vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Timid Mesprit: 99.4% - 100%
Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 39% - 46%
Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 49.2% - 57.9%

And sorry that they only reach 100%; I already did the calcs from the past.

If those aren't convincing, I'll put Surf back to first priority.

kd24 said:
Also, why not use max Speed, unless those HP EVs do something important? Getting the jump on other Ludicolo in Rain (which is pretty unlikely but could at least happen), seems more important than 8 extra points in HP. yeah "lo number" but Ludicolo is a Pokemon who could always use the extra speed (especially with a lot of scarfers hanging around).

Yeah, that's it. Seeing other Ludicolo wasn't really common enough for me. The Speed EVs allows Ludicolo to outrun Timid Scarf Rotom, which I think is big enough. I think the HP EVs could help a bit against random priority moves (Aqua Jetting Azumarill when you're really low, etc), but that's situational.

kd24 said:
uh, if everything ice punch is used for is surviving it, I think zen headbutt should be option number 1 to hit rains biggest threat in my opinion, Toxicroak (dry skin/priority). keep ice punch mentioned though, because you forgot that it also hits altaria for a ohko which is nice. once again, i prefer just 4 hp 252 atk 252 spe on analysis but to each his own.

Oh, yeah, forgot about Altaria (barely see her though >.<). Sure, I'll bump Zen Headbutt up.

kd24 said:
you definitely need a better universal counter to these last few pokemon, pursuit/sucker punch/fire blast/dark pulse houndoom is definitely a good pokemon worthy of consideration for taking out venusaur and alakazam but im sure there are plenty of choices you could use. mention toxic spikes support for late game, as well as toxicroak being another big counter for it because of dry skin / speed / attack / toxic spikes absorbtion.

Sure, I'll add in the counters in. I'm so-so on Toxic Spikes because of the common Poison-types in UU. I might just talk about Toxic Spikes anyways.

kd24 said:
i would never use synthesis outside of rain because then you are just becoming a worse venusaur, which is dumb. i would mention focus punch in the first set though.

Ludicolo does get STAB Surf + Ice Beam, which differs him from Venusaur. I would more compare Ludicolo to an offensive Milotic, where Ludicolo gets STAB Energy Ball but that's basically it. Synthesis (through testing) was an alright move though for Optional Changes.

Focus Punch would just be for Chansey, right? It does 73.6% - 86.7% (going Rash) to the standard Chansey so I guess that's sorta cool, but it turns into a dud moveslot afterward, which I don't like. I'll mention in Additional Comments though.

kd24 said:
EDIT: would like to say sub/beat up/earthquake lo/soft sand dugtrio is a good teammate to set number 1 because it can trap and ko chansey with beat up, sub and then eq toxicroak, and beat registeel.

Dugtrio sounds good, thanks!

EDIT: Okay RL, I'll set Surf back to first.

RaikouLover · Jul 1, 2010

Surf is the safer option generally, that is why it is preferred. A little residual damage secures those 1-2HKOs with Surf.

YaM · Jul 3, 2010

kd24 said:
uh, if everything ice punch is used for is surviving it, I think zen headbutt should be option number 1 to hit rains biggest threat in my opinion, Toxicroak (dry skin/priority). keep ice punch mentioned though, because you forgot that it also hits altaria for a ohko which is nice. once again, i prefer just 4 hp 252 atk 252 spe on analysis but to each his own.

Ice Punch hits Sceptile too~

Defensive Rain Dancers that could be mentioned are Uxie and Altaria. Fast Rain Dancers like Electrode and Ambipom could be briefly mentioned too.

Flora · Jul 3, 2010

YaM said:
Ice Punch hits Sceptile too~

Defensive Rain Dancers that could be mentioned are Uxie and Altaria. Fast Rain Dancers like Electrode and Ambipom could be briefly mentioned too.

I never liked Altaria because she doesn't really abuse the rain that well (and can't kill herself) despite resisting the Swift Swimmer's weaknesses. I'd rather use Rotom.

I forgot about Uxie though. Uxie's great.

Yeah, I'm already covering Electrode and Ambipom in Team Options.

Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, I already mentioned Uxie for a lead spot.

RaikouLover · Jul 9, 2010

Just make sure when you do this you mention Ludicolo's utility in OU and Ubers on the Rain offensive sets. Because it is just as effective in other tiers (well not Ubers, the Swords Dancer works better there but you get the idea).

Eo Ut Mortus · Jul 9, 2010

The OU and Ubers sets are already on-site; their functions are irrelevant to the content of this thread.

Special Sweeper set: Looks fine; Grass Knot is worthy of mention in Set Comments or else Milotic can Recover stall your rain turns for a bit. Also, Focus Punch has utility not only for predicting Chansey switch-ins, but also for predicting Softboileds (same applies to Clefable)

Swords Dance: Looks fine.

Leech Seed: Not too sure about this. For one, you're probably better using off a sweeping set under rain. Weather aside, you are shut down by Venusaur, who, incidentally, seems like a better candidate for the set.

So basically, I'll approve this once the Leech Seed set is taken off, unless it has certain selling points that I missed.

ForTheSwarm · Jul 9, 2010

Just a note: Leafeon can't wish+protect stall against SD Ludicolo because
A) +2 Ice Punch does more damage than wish+leftovers can heal
and
B) He can SD on the protect, guaranteeing the kill.

Flora · Jul 9, 2010

ForTheSwarm said:
Just a note: Leafeon can't wish+protect stall against SD Ludicolo because
A) +2 Ice Punch does more damage than wish+leftovers can heal
and
B) He can SD on the protect, guaranteeing the kill.

Yeah, I agree. I changed it to just Roar now. Thanks!

Oh, it could just Leaf Blade, lol.

Flora · Jul 20, 2010

Eo Ut Mortus said:
Special Sweeper set: Looks fine; Grass Knot is worthy of mention in Set Comments or else Milotic can Recover stall your rain turns for a bit. Also, Focus Punch has utility not only for predicting Chansey switch-ins, but also for predicting Softboileds (same applies to Clefable).

Leech Seed: Not too sure about this. For one, you're probably better using off a sweeping set under rain. Weather aside, you are shut down by Venusaur, who, incidentally, seems like a better candidate for the set.

So basically, I'll approve this once the Leech Seed set is taken off, unless it has certain selling points that I missed.

Okay, I've put Grass Knot in. Should it be Energy Ball / Grass Knot or Grass Knot / Energy Ball? I've only really been using Energy Ball atm so I'm not sure how much better/worse Grass Knot is.

I've also changed the last slot on the special sweeper to Rain Dance / HP Psychic / Focus Punch. If HP Psychic seems too odd (or if Flare decides it's worse than it is), I'll take it off.

EDIT: There seems to be a lot of slashes going on now on the special set. Should I just put Hydro Pump and Grass Knot or Energy Ball in AC?

I'll wait for Flare on Leech Seed. If he's still not convinced that Leech Seed is decent, I'll remove it.

EDIT: I also updated the Optional Changes part. It seemed too barren and there are other possible moves that could be considerable.

Flora · Jul 28, 2010

Despite Flare not making a final QC decision post, I'm fully removing SubSeed and moving it into OC.

Thund91 · Jul 28, 2010

Maybe mention in the AC of the special set (maybe physical too!) that Ludicolo can work as a stand-alone sweeper outside of rain teams to open up holes for teams. I'm sure Houndoom, Moltres, etc. would love bulky waters out of the way; stuff like that.

Flora · Jul 28, 2010

Thund91 said:
Maybe mention in the AC of the special set (maybe physical too!) that Ludicolo can work as a stand-alone sweeper outside of rain teams to open up holes for teams. I'm sure Houndoom, Moltres, etc. would love bulky waters out of the way; stuff like that.

I think the Swords Dance version would be too slow to work well (unless you're vsing a stall team I guess but I think there's better Pokemon for that like Leafeon or Venusaur). However, for the special version, perhaps with mentions of Synthesis (which I already put as OC) it could work out.

Thanks Thund!

Thund91 · Jul 28, 2010

AromaFlora said:
I think the Swords Dance version would be too slow to work well (unless you're vsing a stall team I guess but I think there's better Pokemon for that like Leafeon or Venusaur). However, for the special version, perhaps with mentions of Synthesis (which I already put as OC) it could work out.

Thanks Thund!

Oh no. What I meant was something like Rain Dance/Surf/Energy Ball/Ice Beam on a regular run-of-the-mill team. Usually when people see this they'll sack something like Rhyperior or have a weakened Milotic just to waste turns of rain. This way your other Pokemon have an easier time to sweep. :P

Flora · Jul 28, 2010

Thund91 said:
Oh no. What I meant was something like Rain Dance/Surf/Energy Ball/Ice Beam on a regular run-of-the-mill team. Usually when people see this they'll sack something like Rhyperior or have a weakened Milotic just to waste turns of rain. This way your other Pokemon have an easier time to sweep. :P

Oh, just stuffing that in? I guess that sounds like using double dance Kingdra in OU except this is Ludicolo, lol. Okay, I'll mention that, thanks!

YaM · Aug 13, 2010

Looks great already :) Could include in the overview that the Grass typing is useful on Rain teams to beat bulky waters like Milotic, unique typing also offers a 4x resistance to Water and a 2x resistance to Ground... (which other Rain sweepers Kabutops/Qwilfish attracts)

ToF · Aug 13, 2010

I approve both rain sets. Focus Punch should be slashed on the special set, and Ice Punch should be the primary option on the physical set because of the added benefit of hitting things like Tangrowth for much more damage. Toxicroak is gonna Sucker Punch you anyway, why the hell does it matter what attack you're using to kill it?

Flora · Aug 16, 2010

Twist of Fate said:
I approve both rain sets. Focus Punch should be slashed on the special set, and Ice Punch should be the primary option on the physical set because of the added benefit of hitting things like Tangrowth for much more damage. Toxicroak is gonna Sucker Punch you anyway, why the hell does it matter what attack you're using to kill it?

Focus Punch's slashed.

For Ice Punch, it only does 36.2% - 42.7% to a 0/0 Toxicroak while Toxicroak does 46.9% - 55.3% back with Sucker Punch. Ludicolo could potentially have enough HP even from LO damage to OHKO Toxicroak.

I'll let others weigh on this though for Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch or Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt.

EDIT: @YaM, yeah, I'm going to talk about that when I write it.

Thund91 · Aug 16, 2010

In my opinion Zen Headbutt should come first. It has the added benefit of also hitting Venusaur for more damage, and I'd rather OHKO Toxicroak (who is one of the biggest threats to RD), than hit other Grass-types for more damage. Sceptile already can't switch into anything without being KOed the next turn, and Tangrowth + Leafeon won't switch in until your set is revealed (and probably already got a SD).

whistle · Aug 16, 2010

the first set has so many slashes... can we remove some of them?

first of all here are the relevant calcs against milotic (1) azumarill (18) and lanturn (44, lol it was 40 in suspect). slowbro, slowking, feraligatr, and blastoise take equal damage from both. gk has 100 bp vs milotic, 60 bp vs azumarill, and 40 bp vs lanturn.

gk vs azu 65.8% - 77.8%
eb vs azu 86.8% - 102.2%
gk vs lanturn 31.4% - 37.4%
eb vs lanturn 61.8% - 73.3%
gk vs bold milotic 76.3% - 90.1%
eb vs bold milotic 60.1% - 71.8%
gk vs calm 56 milotic 65.6% - 77.9%
eb vs calm 56 milotic 53.4% - 63.1%

| Milotic | Nature | Bold | 58.7 |
| Milotic | Nature | Calm | 20.5 |

basically i think it should be energy ball because the ability to more or less ohko azumarill and touch lanturn is more important than the small chance a calm milotic will choose to stay in and stall you out. i will admit that ive sometimes stalled out ludicolo with toxic sdef milotic so i can definitely see the opposing argument; if someone has a really really strong opinion on gk being the main option, my stance is not an extreme one.

we also don't need to slash the secondary option, since it is either "use eball but gk is ok for milotic only" or "use gk but eball is useful for azumarill and lanturn only". that's enough to be mentioned in AC.

i like hydro pump in the first slot much more than surf, since even though surf has the accuracy going for it, hydro pump is just so much more useful in getting 2hkos vs very bulky pokemon and 2hkos with ice beam/gk/eball on pokemon that resist water. yeah i don't have calcs because i don't feel like going through every uu pokemon and seeing where surf/hydro pump makes a difference... the idea is "more power in all cases" anyways. its kind of like hydro pump vs surf on lo starmie.

idea: what about slashing it with ice beam, ala ice punch/zhb on the physical set?

i don't really like the focus punch slash too much since it's just for one pokemon (although hp psychic is also for one pokemon, that one pokemon is a massive threat to rain)... but w/e

ludicolo @ life orb (modest)
32 hp / 252 satk / 224 spe
- hydro pump / surf
- energy ball
- ice beam (maybe hp psychic here instead?)
- rain dance / hp psychic / focus punch

moving to uu also

Flora · Aug 16, 2010

Thank you whistle. I made a post concerning that the first set had too many slashes, but I don't think it got attention.

I think the majority called for the reliability that Surf gave since Stealth Rock was able to secure those 2HKOs into OHKOs.

I'll remove Grass Knot though. I never really liked it when I used it as well.

I'll hopefully start writing this tomorrow.

EDIT: Oh, about the Surf/Hydro Pump/Energy Ball/extra move part. I don't think it would help much as it leaves Ludicolo walled entirely by Grass-types and Altaria (albeit not common). IDK, it just doesn't look good. On HP Psychic taking Ice Beam's slot, it might actually work but I'll test some of it out tomorrow to see.

And... I guess I'll swap Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt back again.

Flora · Aug 16, 2010

Okay, I've written it (I actually already did this back then, but I did some polishing). I've added in some calculations for Surf vs Hydro Pump because I think it could be useful if someone doesn't want to use Stealth Rock.

Is the special set too long? There was a good amount of comments to add on for it so IDK.

Also, should the other moves/slashes be mentioned in Set Comments or Additional Comments? Right now, they're in Additional Comments.

And, this wants GP checks in the meantime. Thanks!

whistle · Aug 25, 2010

when you use focus punch you definitely need to change the evs/nature. i forget what ev spread i used but for starters (at the very least) move the 32 extra evs into attack and use a mild nature. focus punch probably does less than surf to clefable (i have no idea what "standard clefable" is), which defeats the purpose since it means you won't be able to 2hko it. i also definitely don't see focus punch + surf 2hkoing chansey, which means you have to depend on winning a few guessing games to kill it.

grass knot doesn't do pitiful damage to azumarill/lanturn; energy ball just does more.

i deleted lots of unnecessary sentences/awkward phrasing

[Overview]

Ludicolo is one of the most essential Rain Dance sweepers because of his Grass-type, which allows him to strike down the annoying Water-type Pokemon who cause havoc for Rain Dance teams. In the rain, he outruns the majority of UU Pokemon and has enough power to slay them with Energy Ball, Surf, and Ice Beam. Ludicolo also has impressive special bulk, enabling him to stay in and set up against a wide range of foes. Lastly, Ludicolo has access to Swords Dance and an adequate physical movepool, which allows him to foil foes who think he's running a special moveset.

However, Ludicolo has a couple of problems. His base 90 Special Attack is not quite impressive, even when using Surf under the rain. Ludicolo can also be picked off easily by a number a priority moves, such as ExtremeSpeed, Fake Out, Quick Attack, and Mach Punch. Even then, Ludicolo stands out as a useful Rain Dance abuser who helps keep the offensive momentum going.

[SET]
name: UU Offensive Rain (Special)
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rain Dance / Hidden Power Psychic / Focus Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This set aims to sweep through teams once Rain Dance is present. As Ludicolo is usually paired with other Rain Dance sweepers, his main role is to remove Water-type Pokemon who may annoy them.

In the rain, Surf will be the main source of damage. If Ludicolo needs more power, then Hydro Pump is a great alternative. Energy Ball allows Ludicolo to strike down Water-type Pokemon who resist Ludicolo's Water attacks. Ice Beam hits Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria for super effective damage. Surf, Energy Ball, and Ice Beam grant Ludicolo great coverage, leaving the fourth slot open for a support move. Rain Dance lets Ludicolo set up rain to maintain offensive momentum. Hidden Power Psychic OHKOes Toxicroak, while Focus Punch can be used to hit Clefable and Chansey while they recover.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

To figure out if you need to use Surf or Hydro Pump on Ludicolo, here are some damage calculations:

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Surf vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 40.7% - 48.1% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 51.1% - 60.2% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 86.9% - 100% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 100% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Jolly Mesprit: 78.7% - 93% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Jolly Mesprit: 99.4% - 100% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 39% - 46% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 49.2% - 57.9% </li>
</ul>

As seen by the calculations, there are several cases where Hydro Pump's increased base power changes 2HKOes into OHKOes. If you're not worried about such Pokemon or have Stealth Rock on your team, then you should use Surf.

When using Focus Punch, you do not need to use a different nature or move EVs to attack because it deals 51.3% - 60.4% to standard Clefable and 63.3% - 74.6% to standard Chansey. Grass Knot is also an option over Energy Ball for increased damage on Milotic, but Energy Ball is sufficient to 2HKO Milotic EVed in Defense. Energy Ball also deals more damage to Lanturn and Azumarill, with a high chance of OHKOing the latter with Stealth Rock damage.

The EV spread provides Ludicolo with maximum power and enough Speed to outrun most of the UU metagame. 224 Speed EVs put Ludicolo at 464 Speed in the rain, allowing him to outrun Timid Choice Scarf Rotom by two points. The remaining Speed EVs are placed into HP for additional bulk. You can also move the HP EVs into Speed if you want to at worst Speed tie other Ludicolo.

It should also be noted that Ludicolo can perform on a standard team regardless of no Rain Dance abusers present on his side. This may seem odd, but using Rain Dance is essentially using an Agility with bonuses.

Pokemon who can survive an attack from Ludicolo and paralyze him back, such as Registeel, Clefable, and Lanturn, are a general annoyance. Although Registeel and Lanturn may die the next turn after they use Thunder Wave, Ludicolo will be helpless when the next Pokemon appears. Also, Clefable can outstall the rain with repeated Softboiled while waiting for Ludicolo to be fully paralyzed. Rain Dance Lanturn can help against Registeel, absorbing the Thunder Wave and striking back with boosted Surfs or Hydro Pumps. Lum Berry Toxicroak can switch in on Clefable and threaten with Cross Chop. Against Lanturn, Quagsire could be used to absorb Electric-type moves and attack with Earthquake. Dugtrio can be used to trap and eliminate Lanturn, Registeel, and Clefable. Using a Registeel yourself would also be useful to use Explosion on Clefable or Lanturn.

Chansey is a big problem for this Ludicolo since she is only 5HKOed (with Leftovers factored in) by Hydro Pump, while she can cripple Ludicolo with either Thunder Wave or Toxic. Again, Lum Berry Toxicroak can be helpful against Chansey by absorbing a Thunder Wave or Toxic and striking back with Cross Chop. Dugtrio can also switch in on a Thunder Wave and strike Chansey down with two Earthquakes.

[SET]
name: UU Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant
evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

While Ludicolo is generally seen as a special sweeper, this set can surprise opponents who switch in their special walls on Ludicolo. With a Swords Dance set up, Ludicolo reaches 524 Attack, which is deadly factoring in rain for improving Waterfall's damage and Ludicolo's Speed, Life Orb, and great coverage.

Swords Dance is the purpose of this set, allowing Ludicolo to boost his pitiful Attack stat to greater levels. Waterfall gives Ludicolo a strong STAB attack in the rain while also having a 20% chance to flinch lethal targets. Seed Bomb uses Ludicolo's secondary STAB to strike down Water-type Pokemon. Ice Punch rounds the set off by hitting Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Adamant and max Attack is needed to give Ludicolo's base 70 Attack as much power as possible. The Speed EVs, like the special set, are geared to outrunning Timid Choice Scarf Rotom. Lastly, the EVs are dumped into HP for additional bulk.

On the last slot, Ice Punch is generally the preferred option for striking down Grass-types and Altaria, but Zen Headbutt can be used for eliminating Toxicroak while still hitting Venusaur (and Zen Headbutt has five more base power than Ice Punch against Venusaur).

Ludicolo appreciates other Rain Dance sweepers who can wear down the opposing team so Ludicolo can finish off the rest. Kabutops and Qwilfish can pair up with Ludicolo as additional Swords Dance sweepers to further break down the opponent's team. Omastar and Gorebyss can aid Ludicolo by attacking on the special side.

Pokemon who can set up Rain Dance are beneficial to Ludicolo's ability to sweep. Uxie, Rotom, and Lanturn can all back up Ludicolo well, with Rotom and Lanturn resisting Ludicolo's Flying weakness. Rotom also resists Ludicolo's Bug weakness as a bonus.

[Team Options]

Stealth Rock is necessary to obtain multiple OHKOs that Ludicolo could not obtain if Hydro Pump is not present on the first set. Regardless, the chip damage is overall useful in aiding Ludicolo and his team to deal as much damage as possible.

Ludicolo appreciates a fast Rain Dance set up at early-game. Electrode, Ambipom, and Uxie are able to do this impressively, with the former two having Taunt and the latter having impressive bulk. Electrode and Uxie both have the option of suiciding themselves to let Ludicolo come in cleaner. With Rain Dance up, Ludicolo should usually be in the sweeping condition.

For backup, Ludicolo usually wants a handful of other Swift Swim Pokemon to aid in the sweeping. Since Ludicolo is usually able to destroy the enemy's Water-type Pokemon who annoy the other Swift Swimmers, the other Rain Dance sweepers should be able to freely run down the remaining Pokemon. Kabutops, Qwilfish, Omastar, and Gorebyss are great sweepers to consider alongside Ludicolo, with the first two being able to use Swords Dance and the last two being powerful special attackers.

Lastly, a defensive Rain Dance user should be considered in case Ludicolo needs to fall back, either because the rain has subsided or because Ludicolo cannot break through the enemy. Pokemon such as Registeel, Lanturn, and Rotom are great users of Rain Dance with their bulk and typing. Registeel is able to withstand a multitude of attacks, negate its Fire weakness with Rain Dance, and give a free switch-in for Ludicolo with Explosion. It can also set up the helpful Stealth Rock. Lanturn and Rotom are able to fire off 100% accurate Thunders in the rain, with Lanturn having an added bonus of having his Water-type STAB attacks boosted. All three also resist Ludicolo's Flying-type weakness, with Registeel resisting and being immune to Ludicolo's Bug- and Poison-type weakness respectively as a bonus.

[Optional Changes]

There aren't many other moves to use other then the ones already mentioned. Synthesis has potential outside of Rain Dance for restoring Life Orb recoil or just healing HP in general. Fake Out could potentially be useful on a Ludicolo who switches out frequently for chip damage, but it won't deal much damage. Icy Wind has its use for lowering the foe's Speed, but Ludicolo will likely already have his Speed boosted via rain. Return on the Swords Dance sweeper could work for overall neutral coverage, but the lack of super effective moves will hinder Ludicolo against specific foes.

A Substitute + Leech Seed combination looks fine at first sight, but it is actually mediocre. Ludicolo will become walled by Grass-types (excluding standard Leafeon or Tangrowth) because his Ice Beam will be weakened as a result from pumping HP and Special Defense EVs and a defensive nature. It also doesn't help that Ludicolo takes neutral damage from Grass-type moves.

[Counters]

Chansey can switch into a Life Orb rain-boosted Surf without taking too much damage from Ludicolo and Thunder Wave or Toxic him. Then, Chansey can stall out the rain with repeated Softboileds or wear Ludicolo down with Seismic Tosses. Clefable can do the same, but she must be wary of switching into Surf or Hydro Pump as it will 2HKO her. As a bonus, Clefable can use Encore against the SubSeeder and is immune to Leech Seed (this shouldn't be a concern). Both of these Pokemon must beware of the Swords Dancer set, however. Toxicroak is a viable counter to any set without a Psychic-type attack due to his Dry Skin ability and resistance to Grass-type attacks.

Against the Swords Dance set, physically-defensive Tangrowth and Leafeon can survive an Ice Punch and threaten back with Sleep Powder or Leaf Blade. Any Hitmontop can threaten physical Ludicolo with either impressive physical bulk and Intimidate or Technician plus Fake Out and Mach Punch. Uxie can usually survive an assault and paralyze Ludicolo with Thunder Wave, but it will end up crippled.

Switching to Pokemon on a predicted attack to outstall the rain is usually the best idea. For example, you can switch in Milotic on a Surf or Ice Beam and then switch to Registeel to take the incoming Energy Ball, and repeat. Doing this also lets Ludicolo take in more Life Orb recoil so you can finally pick it off with a priority move such as Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed, Hitmontop's Mach Punch, or Scyther's Quick Attack. Pokemon already under a Substitute or with Protect are also great at stalling out Ludicolo's rain.

If all else fails, the best strategy is to let your least important Pokemon faint and then switch in the Pokemon who takes the least amount of damage from all of Ludicolo's attacks.

[Overview]

Ludicolo is one of the most essential Rain Dance sweepers ~~particularly~~ because of his Grass-type, which allows him to strike down the annoying Water-type Pokemon who cause havoc for Rain Dance teams ~~havoc~~. In the rain, he ~~has just enough Speed to outrun a~~outruns the majority of UU Pokemon and has ~~good~~ enough power to slay them ~~down~~ with Energy Ball, Surf, and Ice Beam. Ludicolo also has impressive special bulk, enabling him to stay in ~~more easily and set up~~and set up against a wide range of foes. Lastly, Ludicolo has access to Swords Dance and a ~~just good enough~~n adequate physical movepool, which allows him to foil ~~his~~ foes ~~with a physical moveset~~ who think he's running a special moveset.

However, Ludicolo has a couple of problems. His base 90 Special Attack is not quite impressive, even when using Surf under the rain. Ludicolo can also be picked off easily by a number a priority moves, such as ExtremeSpeed, Fake Out, Quick Attack, and Mach Punch. Even then, Ludicolo stands out as a useful Rain Dance abuser who helps keep the offensive momentum going.

[SET]
name: UU Offensive Rain (Special)
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Rain Dance / Hidden Power Psychic / Focus Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This set aims to sweep through teams once Rain Dance is present. As Ludicolo is usually paired with other Rain Dance sweepers, his main role is to remove Water-type Pokemon who may annoy them.

~~Surf or Hydro Pump, Energy Ball, and Ice Beam grant Ludicolo great coverage, leaving the fourth slot open for a support move.~~ In the rain, Surf will be the main source of damage. If Ludicolo needs more power, then Hydro Pump is a great alternative. Energy Ball allows Ludicolo to strike down Water-type Pokemon who resist Ludicolo's Water attacks. Ice Beam hits Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria for super effective damage. ~~Lastly,~~Surf, Energy Ball, and Ice Beam grant Ludicolo great coverage, leaving the fourth slot open for a support move. Rain Dance ~~help~~lets Ludicolo set up ~~the~~ rain ~~in case the rain runs out of turns~~to maintain offensive momentum. Hidden Power Psychic OHKOes Toxicroak, while Focus Punch can be used to hit Clefable and Chansey while they recover.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

To figure out if you need to use Surf or Hydro Pump on Ludicolo, here are some damage calculations:

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Surf vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 40.7% - 48.1% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 156 SDef Careful Registeel: 51.1% - 60.2% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 86.9% - 100% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 80 HP / 0 SDef Impish Hariyama: 100% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Jolly Mesprit: 78.7% - 93% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 52 HP / 0 SDef Jolly Mesprit: 99.4% - 100% </li>
<li>Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 39% - 46% </li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SDef Bold Uxie: 49.2% - 57.9% </li>
</ul>

As seen by the calculations, there are several cases where Hydro Pump's increased Bbase Ppower chan ~~be useful, changing~~ges 2HKOes into OHKOes. If you ~~don'~~'re not worryied about such Pokemon or have Stealth Rock on your team, then ~~Surf~~you should be your primary option.

If your team has problems with Toxicroak, you should opt for Hidden Power Psychic on the last slot to OHKO Toxicroak. Ludicolo will lose the ability to set up the rain or Focus Punch Clefable or Chansey, but getting rid of the rain-annoying Toxicroak is a great trade-back. When using Focus Punch, you do not need to use a different nature or move EVs to attack because it deals 51.3% - 60.4% to standard Clefable and 63.3% - 74.6% to standard Chansey. Grass Knot is also an option over Energy Ball for increased damage on Milotic, but most Milotic tend to run Bold and Defense EVs and as such, Energy Ball does enough damage to 2HKO her. With Grass Knot, Ludicolo will do pitiful damage to Lanturn and Azumarilluse Surf.

When using Focus Punch, you do not need to use a different nature or move EVs to attack because it deals 51.3% - 60.4% to standard Clefable and 63.3% - 74.6% to standard Chansey. Grass Knot is also an option over Energy Ball for increased damage on Milotic, but Energy Ball is sufficient to 2HKO Milotic EVed in Defense. Energy Ball also deals more damage to Lanturn and Azumarill, with a high chance of OHKOing the latter with Stealth Rock damage.

The EV spread provides Ludicolo with maximum ~~damage~~power and enough Speed to outrun most of the UU metagame. 224 Speed EVs put Ludicolo at 464 Speed in the rain, allowing him to outrun Timid Choice Scarf Rotom by two points. The remaining Speed EVs are placed into HP for additional bulk. You can also move the HP EVs into Speed if you want to ~~outspeed or~~at worst Speed tie other Ludicolo.

It should also be noted that Ludicolo can perform on a standard team regardless of no Rain Dance abusers present on his side. This may seem odd, but using Rain Dance is essentially using an Agility with bonuses.

Pokemon who can survive an attack from Ludicolo and paralyze him back, such as Registeel, Clefable, and Lanturn, are an general annoyance. Although Registeel and Lanturn may die the next turn after they use Thunder Wave, Ludicolo will ~~turn rather helpless afterward~~be helpless when the next Pokemon appears. Also, Clefable can outstall the rain with repeated Softboiled while waiting for Ludicolo to be fully paralyzed. Rain Dance Lanturn can help against Registeel, absorbing the Thunder Wave and striking back with boosted Surfs or Hydro Pumps. Lum Berry Toxicroak can switch in on Clefable and threaten with Cross Chop. Against Lanturn, Quagsire could be used to absorb Electric-type moves and attack with Earthquake. Dugtrio can be used to trap and eliminate Lanturn, Registeel, and Clefable. Using a Registeel yourself would also be useful to use Explosion on Clefable or Lanturn.

Chansey is a big problem for this Ludicolo since she is only 5HKOed (with Leftovers factored in) by Hydro Pump, while ~~potentially carrying~~she can cripple Ludicolo with either Thunder Wave or Toxic. Again, Lum Berry Toxicroak can be helpful against Chansey by absorbing a Thunder Wave or Toxic ~~(regardless of the Berry)~~ and striking back with Cross Chop. Dugtrio can also switch in on a Thunder Wave and strike Chansey down with two Earthquakes.

[SET]
name: UU Swords Dancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Seed Bomb
move 4: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant
evs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

While Ludicolo is generally seen as a special sweeper, this set can surprise opponents who switch in their special walls on Ludicolo. With a Swords Dance set up, Ludicolo reaches 524 Attack, which is deadly factoring in rain for improving Waterfall's damage and Ludicolo's Speed, Life Orb, and great coverage.

Swords Dance is the purpose of this set, allowing Ludicolo to boost his pitiful Attack stat to greater levels. Waterfall gives Ludicolo a strong STAB attack in the rain while also having a 20% chance to flinch lethal targets. Seed Bomb uses Ludicolo's secondary STAB to strike down Water-type Pokemon. Ice Punch rounds the set off by hitting Grass-type Pokemon and Altaria.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Adamant and max Attack is needed to give Ludicolo's base 70 Attack as much power as possible. The Speed EVs, like the special set, are geared to outrunning Timid Choice Scarf Rotom. Lastly, the EVs are dumped into HP for additional bulk.

On the last slot, Ice Punch is generally the preferred option for striking down Grass-types and Altaria, but Zen Headbutt can be used for eliminating Toxicroak while still hitting Venusaur (and Zen Headbutt has five more Bbase Ppower than Ice Punch against Venusaur).

Ludicolo appreciates other Rain Dance sweepers who can wear down the opposing team so Ludicolo can finish off the rest. Kabutops and Qwilfish can pair up with Ludicolo as additional Swords Dance sweepers to further break down the opponent's team. Omastar and Gorebyss can aid Ludicolo by attacking on the special side.

Pokemon who can set up Rain Dance are beneficial to Ludicolo's ability to sweep. Uxie, Rotom, and Lanturn can all back up Ludicolo well, with Rotom and Lanturn resisting Ludicolo's Flying weakness. Rotom also resists Ludicolo's Bug weakness as a bonus.

[Team Options]

Stealth Rock is necessary to obtain multiple OHKOs that Ludicolo could not obtain if Hydro Pump is not present on the first set. Regardless, the chip damage is overall useful in aiding Ludicolo and his team to deal as much damage as possible.

Ludicolo appreciates a fast Rain Dance set up at early-game. Electrode, Ambipom, and Uxie are able to do this impressively, with the former two having Taunt and the latter having impressive bulk. Electrode and Uxie both have the option of suiciding themselves to let Ludicolo come in cleaner. With Rain Dance up, Ludicolo should usually be in the sweeping condition.

For backup, Ludicolo usually wants a handful of other Swift Swim Pokemon to aid in the sweeping. Since Ludicolo is usually able to destroy the enemy's Water-type Pokemon who annoy the other Swift Swimmers, the other Rain Dance sweepers should be able to freely run down the remaining Pokemon. Kabutops, Qwilfish, Omastar, and Gorebyss are great sweepers to consider alongside Ludicolo, with the first two being able to use Swords Dance and the last two being powerful special attackers.

Lastly, a defensive Rain Dance user should be considered in case Ludicolo needs to fall back, either because the rain has ~~or is about to~~ subsided or because Ludicolo cannot ~~strike~~break through the enemy. Pokemon such as Registeel, Lanturn, and Rotom are great users of Rain Dance with their ~~great defense~~bulk and typing. Registeel is able to withstand a multitude of attacks, negate its Fire weakness with Rain Dance, and give a free switch-in for Ludicolo with Explosion. It can also set up the helpful Stealth Rock. Lanturn and Rotom are able to fire off 100% accurate Thunders in the rain, with Lanturn having an added bonus of having his Water-type STAB attacks boosted. All three also resist Ludicolo's Flying-type weakness, with Registeel resisting and being immune to Ludicolo's Bug- and Poison-type weakness respectively as a bonus.

[Optional Changes]

There ~~isn't much~~aren't many other moves to use other then the ones already ~~being us~~mentioned. Synthesis has potential outside of Rain Dance for restoring Life Orb recoil or just healing HP in general. Fake Out could potentially be useful on a Ludicolo who switches out frequently for chip damage, but it won't deal much damage. Icy Wind has its use for lowering the foe's Speed, but Ludicolo will likely already have his Speed boosted via rain. Return on the Swords Dance sweeper could work for overall neutral coverage, but the lack of super effective moves will hinder Ludicolo against specific foes.

A Substitute + Leech Seed combination looks fine at first sight, but it is actually mediocre. Ludicolo will become walled by Grass-types (excluding standard Leafeon or Tangrowth) because of his ~~pitiful~~ Ice Beam will be weakened as a result from pumping in HP and Special Defense EVs ~~plus~~and a defensive nature. It also doesn't help that Ludicolo takes neutral damage from Grass-type moves.

[Counters]

Chansey can switch into a Life Orb rain-boosted Surf without taking too much damage from Ludicolo and Thunder Wave ~~him. By t~~or Toxic him. Then, Chansey can stall out the rain with repeated Softboileds or wear Ludicolo down with Seismic Tosses. Clefable can do the same, but she must be wary of switching into Surf or Hydro Pump as it will 2HKO her. As a bonus, Clefable can use Encore against the SubSeeder and is immune to Leech Seed (this shouldn't be a concern). Both of these Pokemon must beware of the Swords Dancer set, however. Toxicroak is a viable counter to any set without a Psychic-type attack due to his Dry Skin ability and resistance to Grass-type attacks.

Against the Swords Dance set, physically-defensive Tangrowth and Leafeon can survive an Ice Punch and threaten back with Sleep Powder or Leaf Blade. Any Hitmontop can ~~usually~~ threaten physical Ludicolo with either impressive physical bulk and Intimidate or Technician plus Fake Out and Mach Punch. Uxie can usually survive an assault and paralyze Ludicolo ~~back~~with Thunder Wave, but it will beend up crippled ~~damage-wise~~.

Switching to Pokemon on a predicted attack to outstall the rain is usually ~~a good idea to do~~the best idea. For example, you can switch in Milotic on a Surf or Ice Beam and then switch to Registeel to take the incoming Energy Ball, and repeat. Doing this also lets Ludicolo take in more Life Orb recoil so you can finally pick it off with a priority move such as Arcanine's ExtremeSpeed, Hitmontop's Mach Punch, or Scyther's Quick Attack. Pokemon already under a Substitute or ~~have~~with Protect are also great at stalling out Ludicolo's rain.

If all else fails, the best strategy ~~to do is~~is to let your least important Pokemon faint and then switch in the Pokemon who takes the least amount of damage from all of Ludicolo's attacks ~~to attack~~.

GP Check 1/2

Ludicolo (UU Analysis)

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood

kd24

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

RaikouLover

YaM

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

RaikouLover

Eo Ut Mortus

Elodin Smells

ForTheSwarm

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

Thund91

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

Thund91

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

YaM

ToF

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

Thund91

whistle

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!

whistle

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