First of all, Dusclops makes me chuckle.
Second of all, Magneton. Great defenses with the stone combined with passable Special Attack and a decent movepool. Going to give it a try myself.
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Eviolite
- Thread starter Garganator
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Second of all, Magneton. Great defenses with the stone combined with passable Special Attack and a decent movepool. Going to give it a try myself.
The main reason for me using Vigoroth is it's speed, sleep immunity, and not having to deal with SE Air Slash against a Yanmega lead or hax-set Togekiss.
But yeah, Machoke could do it, having similar defenses, better attack, and getting STAB on Dynamicpunch alongside hax. It's only downside is the lack of speed for getting that first bulk up going. BulkUp/DPunch/Payback/RS has perfect coverage and anti skarmbliss/pory2/burunatt wallbreaking written all over it. Speaking of, Burungeru shouldn't be allowed to outspeed this x.x
Haha good point. (Sorry about the Zekrom battle BTW, I made the team and suddenly it's gone! Like actually I have no idea where it is haha.)
As for Gigear, Idunno, he's not as bulky as Porygon-2 (His defense is only a bit higher, and that's kinda offset by Gon2's relatively large HP stat) and his attack is THE SAME, he also has worse Special Attack by far. I wouldn't really bother, and his physical movepool is a joke, consisting of normal, fighting (rock smash) and steel attacks.
As for Gigear, Idunno, he's not as bulky as Porygon-2 (His defense is only a bit higher, and that's kinda offset by Gon2's relatively large HP stat) and his attack is THE SAME, he also has worse Special Attack by far. I wouldn't really bother, and his physical movepool is a joke, consisting of normal, fighting (rock smash) and steel attacks.
Completely agree with this. I'm using Stoned Porygon2 and Dusclops on my Trick Room team as set up Pokemon, and while they take attacks very well, they often don't have much time to heal their HP. Leftovers will definitely be a big issue in choices like Chansey or Blissey and Dusclops or Dusknoir.
what kind of EV's are you using that you don't have enough time to heal?
Eh, just switch Gon2 in on Burunkeru or something and snag 25% from boil over, and that's not the only situation that trace can help him heal. Hell, even without it I don't understand how you can not have time to heal, Golbat has less HP and worse defenses and I can roost up all the time, sure he's a bit faster but he doesn't take hits like Gon2 does. :/
Oftentimes I'm forced to switch in, set up Trick Room, and then immediately switch out of an SE attack. I suppose I could heal on that turn instead, but most of my team works best when Trick Room's up. Even Latios is better off in Trick Room against something like a boosted Ulgamoth. Also, Pain Split is a very poor form of recovery. It's next to useless at atleast half health and whatever Dusclops is up against is usually too low on HP to make it worthwhile.
Try putting more than one TR user on your team? That way the weight doesn't entirely fall on Gon2 to set up, giving him more options to recover.
I have 3 Trick Room users on my team, otherwise I wouldn't be able to set up on Fighting-types. As I said before, Pain Split doesn't work very well for Dusclops and Rankurusu (my other set up Pokemon) is a sweeper (and working fantastically so I'm not going to change that).
The problem isn't needing Porygon2 to come in constantly, it's that when it does come in, I usually need it to set up Trick Room immediately. I do have instances where it's the 4th turn of TR and my opponent switches in a counter to whatever's out. So I could probably send in Gon2 on the 4th turn, Recover on the 5th, and set Trick Room back up once it's down. There's still the problem of Fighting types coming in on it as it recovers, but Dusclops could set it up instead in that instance.
Wi-Fi ladder or DW? If you're on the DW one (Full-Wifi?) you should test Regeneration Slowbro over Dusclops.
As for the topic, I'm loving Porygon 2 but that's about it really. Dusclops is a decent enough spinblocker but he can't stay out long since weather, lack of Lefties and entry hazards if they're up all eat into him really fast. He's pretty good with Wish support, but once their spinner is dead and 'clops has spread burns where appropriate he's simply an extra stall tool really. Haven't tried the stone on anything else, although I've considered giving Golbat a spin.
As for the topic, I'm loving Porygon 2 but that's about it really. Dusclops is a decent enough spinblocker but he can't stay out long since weather, lack of Lefties and entry hazards if they're up all eat into him really fast. He's pretty good with Wish support, but once their spinner is dead and 'clops has spread burns where appropriate he's simply an extra stall tool really. Haven't tried the stone on anything else, although I've considered giving Golbat a spin.
Ahahaha well, that's not really an issue with Gon2 itself, but the nature of trick room teams I guess. Try using Gon2 as a lure for fighting types I guess? Dusclops is slower than alot (all?) of them and has the bulk to take any payback in that scenario, he'll enjoy Pain Splitting Rohpushin's base 105 HP too if he really needs to, otherwise, Recover with Gon2, switch to Dusknoir, TR... Idunno, I'm not that great with Trick Room haha.
@Ech0ez: Golbat's real selling point is how easy it is for him to switch in, Fighting, Grass, Bug, Ground, you name it, it's a joke to Golbat.
@Ech0ez: Golbat's real selling point is how easy it is for him to switch in, Fighting, Grass, Bug, Ground, you name it, it's a joke to Golbat.
I'm on the Wi-Fi ladder currently but I'll have to check out Regeneration Slowbro when I play on DW. The only problem I can see is that I'll have 3 Psychic types.
Scicky: I'm pretty sure I've faced you a few times and that Golbat is a bitch to kill. Immunity to Toxic and Taunt make it arguably the best Stall Breaker there is.
Porygon2 @ Prevo Stone
Sassy - 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Analyze (or Download?)
- Charge Beam
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh
Might be worth a shot paired with Shandera to take out Fighting-types. Analyze with Porygon2's low speed should give it a good boost to its reasonable base 105 SpA, and this set can serve as a good check for Dragons / Gyarados / weak attackers in general when it's not attempting to sweep. One of the first things I'd like to try out once I get reliable sim access.
Sassy - 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Analyze (or Download?)
- Charge Beam
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh
Might be worth a shot paired with Shandera to take out Fighting-types. Analyze with Porygon2's low speed should give it a good boost to its reasonable base 105 SpA, and this set can serve as a good check for Dragons / Gyarados / weak attackers in general when it's not attempting to sweep. One of the first things I'd like to try out once I get reliable sim access.
From personal experience, Poliwhirl and Vigoroth are absolute beasts (posted logs for Vigo and i can post for Whirl). Porygon2 like you said is a beast. I'm thinking that Careful Machoke/Dotekkotsu are beastly too, and they absorb status with Guts well.
I'm looking at Scyther, and not liking it much. Yes, Technician Aerial Ace is beastly, but it was just as beastly last gen. I'm conflicted because a typical Scarfer, or Sand Storm team should force Scyth out with no issue whenever it aint running Agility, and Ditto will get a few good hits in if you do run SD. And no matter what, it's only option against Skarm is Brick Break. Overhyped.
But I'm liking other things. I'm about to test Dragonair and see how well it plays in this era. It isn't a Special Attacking beast like Gen V Dragonite, but I think some DD sets will work (heck, if a Mothim can sweep, anything can).
edit: i confused careful with calm.
Oh god the immunity. <3 But yeah it's very possible. Do you play on beta or /tr/?
Apparently not. If it did, Phione would still only be a slightly bulkier Scyther (without the 4x SR weak).
Well I used Gigear with the Prevolution stone on the PO 5th gen ladder. It basically has a one to one ratio; on average, it kills one thing before it dies. Considering I'm using it in OU where neither Gigear nor Gigigear have no place to be, it will probably be even more effective in UU/NU.
I'm confirming that Careful Machoke is an absolute beast. Only Fujin, Togekiss, and any Dragonite that runs Hurricane can manage a counter unless it's Resting. Even after Resting, hax is a necessary element to actually put it down. Machamp's ok at this part, if Machoke doesn't have more than +2 Defense DynamicPunch is a 3hko.
How bulky is Machoke? It survived Jaroda's +4 Leaf Storm and smacked it around with D Punch. That bulky.
How bulky is Machoke? It survived Jaroda's +4 Leaf Storm and smacked it around with D Punch. That bulky.
This observation holds true whether the Pokemon holds the Pre-Evo Stone or not. Unless you want to focus on taking hits from only one side of the spectrum, HP is a better investment if you want to take hits in general.
If machoke can fill that sort of role, then what about Rohpushin's pre-evo? Similar? That thing is pretty bulky too.
Much less Sp.Def though from what I know.
Its SpDef is 50 compared to Machoke's 60 so it's not that much lower. Also, it has 85 HP compared to Machoke's 80 and 105 Base Atk to Machoke's 100. Overall, I think Machoke is probably better at something like this because No Guard Dynamic Punch allows it to set up easier. Dotekkotsu does get an Iron Fist boosted Mach Punch and Drain Punch but Guts is probably the better option for it, anyway.
Dotekkotsu has lower speed by 5 points and lower sp. def by 10. The 5 HP Dotekkotsu has isn't the same, because every sp. def point is *1.5. The 5 Atk points doesn't really matter since you'll be able to ohko everything if successful.
The speed is the biggest issue. This creates problems with evs, since i prefer to run 160 speed stat to keep burungeru and it's W-O-W slower than me. On a Dotekkosu i gotta run an extra 40 evs in speed, so those EVs are coming out of HP (the HP ends up dropping 40 EVs to around where Machoke is). Then, I've got a worse Machoke that gets Iron Fist (but drain punch could be worth it...).