Trick Room in the 5th Generation

[RocketSurgery]

31/31/30/30/30/2 = HP Fighting 70

I doubt the extra 2 speed points will make much difference.

Ah! I clearly haven't played around with the IVs enough. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[DDRMaster]

Siburudon is sexy tbqh. I'm looking forward to using Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Grass Knot/U-turn or Volt Change. Thunderbolt/Flamethrower destroy the Burengeru/Natorei core and Grass Knot fucks with Ground types like Hippowdon. U-turn/Volt Change is an excellent move in general, especially on Trick Room teams. My main concern with going too far down the mixed road is that he just can't handle Blissey that well. Absolute maximum Atk Life Orb Wild Bolt does an average of 52% to max/max Blissey. You'll then lose 126 HP in recoil from the attack, and 30~ HP from the Life Orb (depending on HP EVs). My other problem with going mixed is that it'll compromise his great defensive potential. 85/80/80 defenses with no weaknesses is freakin' awesome so I wanna be able to give some EV attention to those rather than maxing Atk and SpA. Just my thoughts though, there's certainly some great potential in Shiburudon so try out whatever you please and lemme know what works. ^_^

You could always run Brick Break instead of Wild Bolt. Expert Belt Brick Break has slightly more power than Life Orb Wild Bolt and you won't even be taking the recoil damage from LO. U-turn/Volt Change is still good to do damage and would function as a way to get out of counters without wasting a TR turn. In general, I'm not really sure Life Orb is neccesary. I haven't seen a calc yet that allows Shibirudon to get a OHKO/2HKO that it wouldn't get with Expert Belt.

 

[Forsety]

More experimenting around (and probably one too many losses for my liking due to still trying to work out a good synergy and experimenting more) is telling me that physical Shiburudon doesn't function too well in a TR team with a true Mixed set. Its just too weak overall and lack of Lefties kills the one thing he has going for him which is bulk.

Special Shibu however works abit better but most of the time but it seems better to not run U-Turn at all. I find both Dragon Tail and U-Turn have around the same effectiveness in a Grass Knot/Volt Change/Flamethrower set. Dragon Tail has merits in that people really really love switching in dragons into Shibu all the time for some reason and it doubles for phazing certain other setups.

More experimenting with Shubarago has finally convinced me to rethink my stance on it and can only be described as the equivilent of throwing a kryptonian death fortress at Superman. Even if he stops it hes still screwed.

Shubarago@Choice Band
-Aerial Ace
-Megahorn
-Pursuit
-Iron Head

After SR is up the only counters to the thing can literally be named as Shanderaa, Heatran, Gliscor and Skarmory. I'd only consider Shanderaa a true counter since he can trap but SR can thankfully make him abit easier to deal with as it normally takes 47% from Megahorn. Although he lacks the priority of Scizor he has way more bulk and power to compensate for it. Seriously OHKO'ing Garchomps and 2HKO'ing Nattorei is glorious.

I've noticed some more problems with TR teams however, I'm just wondering if its me...

• Bulk Up Roopushin is quite frankly a penis. Hes not that great without Bulk Up but once he has it, he functions ridiculously both in and out TR. Problem is he usually functions better against TR teams rather than with and is currently one of the top 10 most OU. More than often your only counter for this guy will be Rankurusu and he'll have to forfeit Recover or Shadowball for it. The set in question that causes so much pain is Drain Punch/Mach Punch/Payback/BulkUp.
• Trick, god Trick is a pain. Not even Magic Coat saves you from this.
• Fire is very very hot and it hurts alot. Due to the way TR teams are limited for choices it seems a very strong fire attacker can often still rip through you. You'll often only have maybe one slot for something which doesn't mind boosted fire hits, but once they go down...
• Hippowdon fat stalling turd blah blah.
• Powerful priority like DDRMaster mentioned is huge, problem is only a select few can use it effectively.
• Stealth Rock is very very hard to lay out when you're constantly working against a clock.
• Did I mention Roopushin is asshole? I feel that needs extra stressing.
• Again echoing one of DDRMasters words, a token fast sweeper can be useful. Really if Leaf Storm Jarooda shows up you're screwed, it simply doesn't mater how much bulk you do have.
• Don't discount Gallade as another potential TR starter, he is absolutely amazing as an anti-lead.
• Rankurusu is the god of Trick Room, honestly it controls the entire game and losing it is a huge blow to any TR team.

I've yet to try Erufuun but I'm a tad bit wary about that he tends to attract nukes like no tomorrow and can't really fight back much.

 

[breh]

I've been running a team modeled (I.E. Pretty much blatant copying) on DDRMaster's on PO. I just started playing on PO today and my rating jumped up to 500ish from app. 20 battles, most wins.... this is what I have so far:

Hide

Obnoxious (Celebi) @ Iron Ball
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room
- Leaf Storm
- U-turn

Hurr Durr (Dusclops) (M) @ Evolution Stone
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Night Shade
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room

Embryomon (Rankurusu) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick Room

Parkour (Roobushin) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Hammer Arm
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Mach Punch

Hydra A (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch

Raijin (Borutorosu) (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Change
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

First thing I have to say is that PO players are terrible. for god's sake, only 2 3 (if manaphy is a suspect) of the players I found used suspects...

Anyway, after only a few battles, I can safely say that Rankurusu is TR's herald this gen; it is really really good. Dusclops is surprisingly bulky, once taking a sun Hihidaruma Encourage FB and setting up TR for the win.

The other members are useful. I tried to use celebi just so I would have a lead that doesn't say "hi please taunt me" and be useful towards Hippos. It's working out okay but I'm thinking of running a more offensive spread so as to OHKO Hippo and drop the iron ball so that I can have the slowest u-turn ever.

Roopushin and Scizor provide priority for when TR goes down and the former counters Doryuuzu. I use Scizor less as a scout and more for its priority and because it offers a valued steel typing and all of the nice resistances along with it.

finally, Voltros is really cool in general. I'm thinking of replacing thunder wave (the orignial intention of which was, when I'm really screwed over by a... +2 Ononokusu or something, I use it and get it before they attack... haven't used it once lol).

A last point I want to make is that I seem to win generally by virtue of bulk on my pokemon, not speed in TR. TR certainly helps but sometimes I can just get by by abusing the fact that every one has fantastic defenses.

 

[DDRMaster]

I've been running a team modeled (I.E. Pretty much blatant copying) on DDRMaster's on PO. I just started playing on PO today and my rating jumped up to 500ish from app. 20 battles, most wins.... this is what I have so far:

Hide

Obnoxious (Celebi) @ Iron Ball
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room
- Leaf Storm
- U-turn

Hurr Durr (Dusclops) (M) @ Evolution Stone
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Night Shade
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room

Embryomon (Rankurusu) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick Room

Parkour (Roobushin) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Hammer Arm
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Mach Punch

Hydra A (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch

Raijin (Borutorosu) (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Change
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

lol I really don't mind. And the only thing that's exactly the same is Dusclops, which can't really run anything else (besides maybe Seismic Toss). If you weren't using Rankurusu, I'd probably tell you to use Rankurusu.

 

[Forsety]

A last point I want to make is that I seem to win generally by virtue of bulk on my pokemon, not speed in TR. TR certainly helps but sometimes I can just get by by abusing the fact that every one has fantastic defenses.

Have to agree, it seems generally most of the time the key to a TR teams success is more bulk than anything. It seems everytime I do run into problems its simply against something equally as or more bulky.

finally, Voltros is really cool in general. I'm thinking of replacing thunder wave (the orignial intention of which was, when I'm really screwed over by a... +2 Ononokusu or something, I use it and get it before they attack... haven't used it once lol).

Could try U-Turn like everyone else seems to do.

 

[~Yadoking~]

Would Mew be a good TR lead?
something like...

Mew @ Lefties
Synchronize
Timid/Jolly nature
252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
~Trick Room
~U-Turn/Baton Pass
~Magic Coat
~Filler (Taunt, Roost, Super Fang)

it gets a slow U-Turn/BP, and Magic Coat.
Guess it would work.

Reposting since noone answered.

(Hope I'm not being annoying tho)

 

[breh]

@ Yadoking:

It doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. I used a Celebi lead to good success so mew should be similarly good.

However, I'd suggest running Taunt (for Hippos) and SR in the last slots so that mew can do something. Rocks really aid a sweep and it seems like so much stuff is barely not OHKOed by Rankurusu's moves (for example Nattorei).

 

[Forsety]

SR in the last slot would be good since its really hard to find room for a rocks setup in a TR team and it helps alot. Super Fang would stop anything walling Mew however (cept Duskclops >.>) I don't think much of Taunt personally on that set it doesn't really do much.

 

[Ech0ez]

Hide

Porygon 2 @ Evolution Stone
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Sp.Def
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Trace
~Trick Room
~Magic Coat
~Recover
~Ice Beam

Bronzong @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 80 Def / 88 Sp.Def
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Levitate
~Trick Room
~Stealth Rock
~Earthquake
~Gyro Ball

Rankurusu @ Life Orb
EVs: 176 HP / 80 Def / 252 Sp.Atk
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magic Guard
~Trick Room
~Psycho Shock
~Shadow Ball
~Focus Blast

Roobushin @ Toxic Orb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Sp.Def
Nature: Brave
Ability: Guts
~Hammer Arm
~Mach Punch
~Payback
~Stone Edge

Scizor @ Choice Band
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Sp.Def
Nature:
Ability:
~Bullet Punch
~SuperPower
~Pursuit
~U-Turn

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk / 4 Sp.Def / 252 Speed
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
~Psycho Shock
~Thunderbolt
~Surf
~Dragon Pulse

Had a pretty good streak of success with this. So far pretty much every loss I've had has been down to misplays or in one case a misclick, the team itself flows amazingly. Only thing I can't stand is Kojondo. I'm basically forced to lead with Latios or Rankurusu once I see it since it walks all over pretty much everything else with that ridiculous HJK.

 

[~Yadoking~]

@ Yadoking:

It doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. I used a Celebi lead to good success so mew should be similarly good.

However, I'd suggest running Taunt (for Hippos) and SR in the last slots so that mew can do something. Rocks really aid a sweep and it seems like so much stuff is barely not OHKOed by Rankurusu's moves (for example Nattorei).

Ah, the rocks of course!! (forgot it was a TM in 4th gen) I will make a Trick Room team at once BW comes to Europe. (So nice we just got Mew as an event : D)

 

[Kristy Haruka]

Has anyone used Ampharos in a Trick Room team? I know its probably not as good as other slow Electrics like Magnezone and Shibirudon but I think it has its differences...

 

[breh]

Has anyone used Ampharos in a Trick Room team? I know its probably not as good as other slow Electrics like Magnezone and Shibirudon but I think it has its differences...

But why exactly? Cotton Guard is out of the question because TR is bad for setup (except maaaaybe TR Slowking) in general. At that point you're left mostly with attacking options - Thunder/bolt, Focus Blast, the Hidden Powers, and Signal Beam.

Shibirudon has a far better movepool, ability, and an only slightly lesser attacking stat, the ability to go mixed, and similar defenses.

I don't see how it's not outclassed, honestly.

 

[Forsety]

Has anyone used Ampharos in a Trick Room team? I know its probably not as good as other slow Electrics like Magnezone and Shibirudon but I think it has its differences...

You'd like to think but sadly Amphy is outclassed in the very sense of the word in a TR team. Shibirudon offers no weaknesses, similar bulk and only 10 base less s.atk. Rotom W offers unmatched support, great coverage and unique resistances. Magnezone has overkill s.atk and that dual steel typing.

 

[DDRMaster]

Reposting since noone answered.

(Hope I'm not being annoying tho)

When I tried Ubers Trick Room, I ran near max SpDef and max HP with min Speed and Trick Room/Magic Coat/Stealth Rock/U-turn and it worked well. Not much could OHKO it without a STAB SE move and it could reflect back Taunts and Dark Voids that were aimed at it. Mew often gets a free turn or two to set up both SR and TR, especially if it reflects a Taunt.

I haven't tried it in OU but it should work just as well.

 

[Kristy Haruka]

Oh no... Poor Amphy. :[

 

[~Yadoking~]

I would guess my TR team would be something like:

Mew (Lead, TR and SR setter)
Shibirudon (Mixed, perhaps SubCharge)
Rankurusu (TR renewer, Special sweeper)
Burungeru (Special wall, TR renewer)
Zuruzukin (Bulk up Physical sweeper)

Now I need a cleanup poké, I want to use Shanderaa, but that makes 4 dark/Ghost weaks so maybe YOU have an Idea?
EDIT: Warubiaru perhaps?
No, wait GIGIGEAR!!!! (yell it loud!)
Editing more (Changes Slowking to Burungeru since it provides a Bug resist)

 

[Forsety]

Shibirudon (Mixed, perhaps SubCharge)

Thats going to be too slow to get started and too weak to get necessary KO's, I run near max s.atk with +nature and the damage loss from using Volt Change is big enough I sometimes fail to score necessary KO's. Only reason I even bother with Volt Change when I do use it is because I need to keep my offense flowing. Not to mention you're running Zuru too, two stat setup Pokemon is too much for a TR room and will cause you to lose all your momentum.

Ideally for a cleanup Pokemon you need something fast with overwhelming power and/or good coverage. Neither Shanderaa or Gigigear fall into these criteria, honestly have you seen how horrendous Gigigears movepool is? Shanderaa is also slow as crap and needs to run Scarf which also gets it horrendously mauled by revenge kills.

Right now just looking at your proposed idea you're also lacking a real powerhouse who can abuse the Trick Room to its full extent. Also your dark/ghost weakness is a understatement many pokemon who pack Dark moves also pack a fighting one for coverage and Zuru isn't going to like that.

 

[Plusle]

I'm writing a article about this for the smog.

 

[Twins]

I can't believe no one really mentioned Musharna. It has excellent defenses of 116/85/95, 107 special attack, and a minimum of 63 speed. It was practically made for trick room. It gets moonlight for recovery, puts things to sleep with Hypnosis, can set up trick room, and can deal some damage with its pretty wide movepool. I think you could run a set like this:

Moonlight/Hypnosis
Trick Room
Psychic/Psycho Shock
Calm Mind/Hypnosis/ Shadow Ball/ Energy Ball

Moonlight for recovery, Trick Room for obvious reasons, Psychic or Psycho shock to do damage on either special defense or defense, and the last move for boosting, sleeping, or another attack. It would do pretty well, and last long too.

 

[~Yadoking~]

^ most likely since Rankurusu outclasses it hard.
Musharna is 1 point faster in TR tho.
oh, and a little more Def.

 

[DDRMaster]

^ most likely since Rankurusu outclasses it hard.
Musharna is 1 point faster in TR tho.
oh, and a little more Def.

This, Musharna does have slightly more bulk and less Speed than Rankurusu, but Rankurusu has higher SpAtk, Recover, Magic Guard, and Focus Blast.

 

[Twins]

This, Musharna does have slightly more bulk and less Speed than Rankurusu, but Rankurusu has higher SpAtk, Recover, Magic Guard, and Focus Blast.

Oh yeah, forgot about Rankurusu. They seem to serve the same purpose. Musharna could be used more defensively with its higher defensive stats of 116/85/95, vs Rankurusu's 110/75/85. Musharna could survive longer though, and possibly set up a couple trick rooms. Maybe someone could run a crazy drought+trick room set, making moonlight that much better. Rankurusu does get better offensive moves and stats, but Musharna has hypnosis, which disables a pokemon for a couple turns, allowing it to set up calm mind.

Both pokemon seem to be extremely similar though. Same type, near similar stats (Rankurusu has 3 more BST than Musharna), same generation, similar move pools, same purpose. Musharna is more for support and defense, while Rankurusu is more on the offense.

 

[DDRMaster]

I really don't think Musharna's higher Defenses really mean that much. Rankurusu has Magic Guard which means it can easily switch into Entry Hazards and is immune to Sandstorm damage. It also has Recover which means that it can still heal its HP effectively if Sandstorm is up. Hypnosis is really Musharna's only niche.

 

[Ech0ez]

It's also worth noting that Musharna and Rankurusu comparisons mean little when Musharna is also outclassed by Cresselia pretty badly. Musharna's best used for it's own niches like been a bulky Curse/CM passer, not an inferior Rank/Cress. Especially on Trick Room where both serve more purpose than it.