Latias (Placeholder)

[Kevin Garrett]

Latias

Here are some sets I am planning on doing:

• Offensive Calm Mind
• Defensive Calm Mind
• Choice Specs
• Choice Scarf
• Life Orb + Three Attacks
• Bait Latias
• Substitute + Calm Mind
• Support
• Dual Screen

[SET]
name: Offensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Surf
move 4: Recover / Hidden Power Fire / Grass Knot
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]


[SET]
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Recover
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Refresh / Hidden Power Fire / Roar / Reflect
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]


[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Psycho Shock / Dragon Pulse
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Pulse
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Life Orb + Three Attacks
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Psycho Shock / Grass Knot
move 4: Recover
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Bait Latias
move 1: Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Surf
move 4: Thunderbolt / Grass Knot
item: Expert Belt
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 6 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Substitute + Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Recover / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Dragon Pulse
move 2: Recover / Wish
move 3: Roar / Protect
move 4: Reflect / Thunder Wave
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Wish
move 4: Roar / Dragon Pulse / Safeguard
item: Light Clay
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

 

[Megan_Fox]

I could see refresh CM and Sub cm getting merged together as they are pretty similar so I would consider it. Another option could also be putting refresh and sub as slashes/options on the defensive cm set but that might be giving that set too many options.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

I could see refresh CM and Sub cm getting merged together as they are pretty similar so I would consider it. Another option could also be putting refresh and sub as slashes/options on the defensive cm set but that might be giving that set too many options.

I would just prefer to merge the Refresh and Substitute Calm Mind sets since they are generally mono attackers, at most two attacks with no recovery. Defensive Calm Mind has many options and the former two sets require a seperate description in my opinion.

 

[MajorGambit]

Latias is one of my favorite pokes. I really love it and have been using in on my teams.

On the defensive CM mind set, I'd like you to point out, if you can, what do these EVs accomplish. I've been using this set fairly well but the only flaw I've noticed is the EVs distribution.

Also, I think its important to mention the IVs loss when using HP Fire (my case).

 

[panamaxis]

I don't think Modest should get a slash on any set, there are way too many important pokes sitting just below latias nowadays that need to be outsped (especially with all the 108 base speed introductions).

 

[Wafflez]

Hp Fire and Psycho Shock are pretty good options on Scarf/Specs/LO 3 Attacks due to their ability to take down Natteori and beat blissey respectively.And agreeing with Pana Modest isn't worth being slashed in.

 

[MajorGambit]

I don't think Modest should get a slash on any set, there are way too many important pokes sitting just below latias nowadays that need to be outsped (especially with all the 108 base speed introductions).

Really? I've been using Modest and it seems fine. I mean, I can't remember right now the pokes you're mentioning, but if they are hitting for Satk damage, Latias can deal with it and still invest on her own Satk, don't you think so?

 

[Shnoogle]

Really? I've been using Modest and it seems fine. I mean, I can't remember right now the pokes you're mentioning, but if they are hitting for Satk damage, Latias can deal with it and still invest on her own Satk, don't you think so?

Latias misses out on the 4 musketeer horse things, infernape, Garchomp, and that's about it when she runs Modest.

Considering that Latias walls the Grass/Fighting, and Water/Fighting musketeers, as well as Infernape, Modest should deserve a slash as you only really miss out on the Rock/Fighting and Steel/Fighting musketeers, as well as Garchomp. Plus, the Rock/Fighting one usually runs Rock Polish, so you won't be able to outspeed anyways, and Garchomp usually is Scarfed.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

I would personally like to see psycho shock and hidden power (fire) on the life orb + three attacks set.

I don't really see what thunderbolt hits, while there are plenty of fightings this gen to hit with psycho shock.

Hidden power is solely for nattorei.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

I wasn't finished refining the sets yet. As you can tell I don't even have any descriptions. Let's see what you guys had to say, though.

Latias is one of my favorite pokes. I really love it and have been using in on my teams.

On the defensive CM mind set, I'd like you to point out, if you can, what do these EVs accomplish. I've been using this set fairly well but the only flaw I've noticed is the EVs distribution.

Also, I think its important to mention the IVs loss when using HP Fire (my case).

I have been using 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with success. I changed it to that.

I don't think Modest should get a slash on any set, there are way too many important pokes sitting just below latias nowadays that need to be outsped (especially with all the 108 base speed introductions).

Makes sense.

I added Hidden Power Fire and Psycho Shock to a bunch of sets.

 

[Sir Azelf]

Is Roar worth it as a mention on the defensive CM set in the last slot (so CM/Roar/Pulse/Recover) ? I seem to remember quite a few people using this last gen.

Its should still work great since you can CM up along side things like Rankurusu, Jirachi and Suicune etc and then Roar them away. It also racks up entry hazard damage vs Blissey and other counters.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

Is Roar worth it as a mention on the defensive CM set in the last slot (so CM/Roar/Pulse/Recover) ? I seem to remember quite a few people using this last gen.

Its should still work great since you can CM up along side things like Rankurusu, Jirachi and Suicune etc and then Roar them away. It also racks up entry hazard damage vs Blissey and other counters.

Yes, that's worth a slash.

I'm wondering about Reflect on the Defensive Calm Mind set. Opinions on if it should stay?

 

[panamaxis]

Yeah Reflect is good on the defensive CM set, I don't mind whether we slash it or mention it AC though, whatever you think is best is fine with me KG.

Really? I've been using Modest and it seems fine. I mean, I can't remember right now the pokes you're mentioning, but if they are hitting for Satk damage, Latias can deal with it and still invest on her own Satk, don't you think so?

Just off the top of my head.
Bug/Electric Pokemon
Kojondo (though to be fair you can spam recover against it as only nothing bar U-turn will 2HKO I think but its nice to be able to take a fake out and KO back instead of it getting the u-turn against you)
Legendary fighting Trio
Infernape (Though you do wall it, the only thing you'd really care about is CB u-turn but infernape would be ballsy to try it on latias unless it's forced to)
Gengar
Garchomp
Salamence
Zapdos
Celebi
Ononokusu (would probably run adamant in most cases though)
Sazandora (would probably run modest in most cases though)
Randorosu
Ugusomethingsomething (the fire moth thing)

If we use Modest Scarf then we lose to:
Jolly Scarf Ono or +1 DDed Jolly Ono (though tbh I'm not sure if people run jolly or adamant for this)
+Spe Scarf Latias and Latios (instead of getting the 50/50 chance)
Jolly Scarfchomp
Jolly Scarf Randorosu
Jolly Scarf Jirachi
+1 Jolly DD Mence

yeah timid is a lot better than modest.

 

[zapper22001]

Although it would likely be outclassed by Latios, Latias deserves to have Thunder mentioned in Optional Changes and maybe in the Life Orb + Three Attack set as it lets Latias work well on a rain or put up a fight against rain teams if it gets in safely. The first role is easily outclassed by Latios, but the latter role is well-suited for Latias with her great Special Defense. Thunder has that great paralyse chance, which can put a stop to a sweeper if they are stricken by this status. Overall, it's worthy of a mention.

 

[RaikouLover]

over half of these sets are outclassed by Latios? I mean I understand that each pokemon should have its own set, but Latios / Latias are so similar they are called Lati@s. I see no reason to use Offensive Calm Mind, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, or pure Life Orb Latias when there is Latios... Also, even Dual Screen Screen Latios outclasses it thanks to Momento. In the same vein, I see no reason to use Defensive Calm Mind on Latios. Granted, they both can have comments saying "Lati@s can do the same as its counter part for surprise value, but is less efficient."

 

[Togefan]

Why are there Life Orb, Expert Belt and Choice Specs sets but no Soul Dew? Soul Dew is the superior option because it gives the Special Attack the same boost as a Choice Specs, it doesn't lock you into a move, it doesn't reduce you HP each time you attack and it also boosts the Sp.Def by 50%. So why bother with any of the other options? Leftovers is still a good item for Latias so if you want to survive longer you can use that over Soul Dew. But seriously use Soul Dew over the other items because unlike Life Orb, Expert Belt, and Choice Specs Soul Dew has no drawbacks.

 

[supermarth64]

Why are there Life Orb, Expert Belt and Choice Specs sets but no Soul Dew? Soul Dew is the superior option because it gives the Special Attack the same boost as a Choice Specs, it doesn't lock you into a move, it doesn't reduce you HP each time you attack and it also boosts the Sp.Def by 50%. So why bother with any of the other options? Leftovers is still a good item for Latias so if you want to survive longer you can use that over Soul Dew.

Soul Dew isn't available in Black/White (yet).

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Why are there Life Orb, Expert Belt and Choice Specs sets but no Soul Dew? Soul Dew is the superior option because it gives the Special Attack the same boost as a Choice Specs, it doesn't lock you into a move, it doesn't reduce you HP each time you attack and it also boosts the Sp.Def by 50%. So why bother with any of the other options? Leftovers is still a good item for Latias so if you want to survive longer you can use that over Soul Dew.

Soul Dew has not been released yet. There is no confirmation yet if it's obtainable and usable in the game by legitimate means. If it had been, the twins would have been dominating a long time ago.

*EDIT*

Soul Dew isn't available in Black/White (yet).

Ha, beat me to it as I was typing.

 

[Togefan]

I don't know how the whole transfering from 4th Gen to 5th Gen works but can't you just give Latias the Soul Dew so when it transfers over to black and white you get both Latias and the Soul Dew?

 

[Togefan]

over half of these sets are outclassed by Latios? I mean I understand that each pokemon should have its own set, but Latios / Latias are so similar they are called Lati@s. I see no reason to use Offensive Calm Mind, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, or pure Life Orb Latias when there is Latios... Also, even Dual Screen Screen Latios outclasses it thanks to Momento. In the same vein, I see no reason to use Defensive Calm Mind on Latios. Granted, they both can have comments saying "Lati@s can do the same as its counter part for surprise value, but is less efficient."

Actually I think Latias beats Latios at Dual Screening because she is bulkier and when Latios uses memento he KO's himself meaning there goes your only Dual Screener. Which is bad if your opponent has a Pkmn with Brick Break. And even if they don't you only have 7 turns to use your screens and the battle is most likely going to take much longer than that so you might want to have your Dual Screener around to be ready to set up the screens again should they be removed or just wear off. Besides they can just switch out after Latios uses memento and come back after the dual screens wear off.

 

[supermarth64]

I don't know how the whole transfering from 4th Gen to 5th Gen works but can't you just give Latias the Soul Dew so when it transfers over to black and white you get both Latias and the Soul Dew?

You can't transfer over items when transferring from 4th to 5th gen.

 

[IcyMan28]

over half of these sets are outclassed by Latios? I mean I understand that each pokemon should have its own set, but Latios / Latias are so similar they are called Lati@s. I see no reason to use Offensive Calm Mind, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, or pure Life Orb Latias when there is Latios... Also, even Dual Screen Screen Latios outclasses it thanks to Momento. In the same vein, I see no reason to use Defensive Calm Mind on Latios. Granted, they both can have comments saying "Lati@s can do the same as its counter part for surprise value, but is less efficient."

Agreeing with nearly all of this. Latias should be using her greater bulk to distinguish herself from Latios, which effectively means Defensive CM, SubCM, Support, and Dual Screen (she has Wish over Latios' Memento).

Latios is simply superior at Specs, Scarf, Offensive CM, and pure LO. Even the Bait set is somewhat outdone since Latios puts more pressure on the opponent. These sets deserve other options mention should Latias' bulk be absolutely required by a particular team, and that's it, IMO.

 

[Rakan]

I have been testing out a new set and it works wonders if you can eliminate steel types.
The set I have been using is a mono-attack set:

Latias@Leftovers
Nature: Timid
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Refresh
-Dragon Pulse
Evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Speed

This set also works really well with Toxic Spikes support and can outstall a fair few things with Refresh and Recover. Refresh provides a handy solution to problematic status. To give an idea of its usefulness, I had 3 calm minds up and then a manaphy came in with rain up. It proceeded to tail glow twice while I continued to calm mind up. By that time I was at +6/+6 and its +6 ice beam did less than 40%. Dragon pulse smashed it into the ground and I swept the rest of his team with just Dragon Pulse.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

I already had that.

 

[Rakan]

Woops my bad, the slashes confused me. Sorry bout that.