Victini

[Mr_br_kill]

Victini

I've looked and looked, but I didn't see a uu victini thread so I'll start one.
Victini is a massive powerhouse, who should probbely be in ou. It is a fantastic stall breaker with the very overpowered V-generate. This cool new fire type will probbaly be ou or at least bl in the near future, but for now the v shaped pixie is destroying everything in uu.

Possible sets

Choice
victini @ choice band/choice scarf
Adamant/jolly
4 hp 252 atk 252 spd
V-generate
Fusion bolt
Brick break
Zen headbutt/U-turn

Trick Room
Victini life orb/leftovers
Brave
252 hp 252 atk 4 def
Trick Room
V-generate
Fusion Bolt
Brick Break/Zen Headbutt

Special
Vicitini leftovers/life orb/choice specs
Timid/Modest
4 hp 252 sp atk 252 spd
Fire blast
Thunder
focus Blast
Subsatute/physic/physhock

Life gamble
Victini @ choice scarf
jolly
252 hp 4 atk 252 spd
life gamble
u-turn
V-gerorate
fusion bolt

Support
Victini @ leftovers
bold/calm
252 hp 252 def 4 sp atk/ 252 hp 4 sp atk 252 sp def
Wilo wisp
taut
physic
focus blast

 

[Mysterious Trainer]

I think people avoided creating this discussion thread due to the major controversy it will cause. Everyone who uses Victini on their main team argues that it isn't over powered, while those who don't use Victini disagree. Garchomp all over again.

 

[Mind Controller]

OP, no offense, but I really think you need to work on your spelling.

Anyway, I haven't ever used Victini in Trick Room before, so I'm curious as to how well it works. Maybe I'll try it out tonight.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

IMO, Victini will become OU before it becomes BL. But idk if these threads are meant to discuss it's tiering or not (there's no marker at the top like there is in OU topics) so I'll refrain from talking about that anymore.

I think people avoided creating this discussion thread due to the major controversy it will cause. Everyone who uses Victini on their main team argues that it isn't over powered, while those who don't use Victini disagree. Garchomp all over again.

Confirming that this is accurate. This is exactly why we used to have Suspect EXP during these tests, because people who don't use a pokemon aren't getting the full picture. They just look at damage calcs and go "wow that thing can hit hard" without realizing the full implications of its move. If you get a kill with V-create, your opponent gets a free switchin and a free turn. With any reasonable amount of offense, this can be a death sentence for your team.

Victini can't sweep, at all. At most you're getting 2 V-creates off and then switching out. That is a huge problem on a Stealth Rock weak pokemon. Even Trick Room Victini has to waste a turn setting it up, which will kill you if you don't ohko the switchin...and a lot of notable pokemon are still slower than a -1 Victini.

Also, several hard counters to Victini exist in the tier and are not uncommon enough for people to cry about "overcentralization". Arcanine, Suicune, Slowbro/Slowking, Flareon, Milotic, Rhyperior/Rhydon, etc. Not to mention, most things can actually survive a V-create and nail it back with a move on its lowered defenses. It's not like you have to devote an entire chunk of your team to countering Victini, those pokemon are all good for other things too.

Without Drought, I don't think there's any question about Victini's place in UU. Without Victini, I don't think there's any question about Drought. I'm curious to see what the voters will do.

 

[shofly12]

how is everyone dealing with victini? CB deals absurd amounts of damage and u-turns are annoying as always.

 

[tomtom5858]

how is everyone dealing with victini? CB deals absurd amounts of damage and u-turns are annoying as always.

1. See jrrrrrrrrrrrrr's post

2. Flash Fire

 

[shofly12]

who's a good partner for victini?

 

[GTS]

Empoleon can take water dark and rock attacks aimed at Victini, and is pretty bulky. Victini can take fire and fighting for him.

 

[SJCrew]

Flash Fire is a terrible argument when you just outright OHKO Houndoom with any other move. You're taking as big a risk as the Victini user is (when you're locked into something, that is).

I think Victini's wallbreaking power and versatility are what make it a potential borderline. Not enough punishes it for getting a V-create off imo, especially when a lot of the things that want to switch into him are defensive and can't abuse his lowered speed.

I think the metagame is pretty used to him now anyway, so it's not like he's causing a huge uproar. You just have to make sure you predict better than the Victini user at all times.

 

[elchupo]

Empoleon can take water dark and rock attacks aimed at Victini, and is pretty bulky. Victini can take fire and fighting for him.

Empoleon isn't weak to fire tho, and they both share a pretty major weakness in Ground. Not a great partner IMO.

Technically Ferrothorn + Victini cover each others weaknesses very well, so if you're beat Eviolite Ferroseed does good. The trouble with Victini is it's large number and wide variety of weaknesses, so you're unlikely to find anything that covers them perfectly. Beyond that I would suggest a dedicated wall like Lickilicky or Eviolite Chansey.

 

[Shiki1335]

Cress is a great partner with vicitni.

 

[elchupo]

Cress is a great partner with vicitni.

But how? They share TWO weaknesses, Ghost and Dark, Cress doesn't resist any of Victini's other weaknesses and is immune to only Ground. Bulk alone won't stop either of them being destroyed by a decent Dark or Ghost type.

 

[Scoopapa]

Grass-type sweepers are good partners for Victini. U-turn catches bulky waters and Rhyperior and allows you the opportunity to come in and set up. It can also lure Arcanine into Stealth Rock with U-turn, allowing you to force it out and theoretically making it be at < 50% health if it wants to counter your Grass-type. Shiftry is a cool option because it also resists Ghost and Dark, allowing it to cover 4 of Victini's 5 weaknesses. It can also catch said weakened Arcanine with Nature Power (Earthquake). Any offensive Grass type would probably be fine, though.

 

[BTzz]

CB Flygon and CB Victini make an excellent scouting core. Flygon lures in steel and ice types for Victini to force out. The two also have pretty good synergy.

 

[shofly12]

how does ninjask+victini sound? this is just theorymon, but wouldnt bpassing speed boosts and sword dances to victini make it basically GG for the other person if he doesnt have strong priority or flash fire?

 

[jagged_angel]

Most teams have a phazer or something else to deal with ninjask these days, but in theory Victini would love to be BP'd some speed boosts.

My go to pokemon to switch into Victini is Arcanine as V-Create does less than 40% after Intimidate. you can then fire off a Wild Bolt as they switch to a Water type, or Flare Blitz Ground switch ins. You can even Morning Sun to heal.

Other than speed, Choice Scarf Victini doesn't have much over Scarf Darmanitan it seems! Oh, but Darm is not UU on the Smogon server.

The Special set looks like it could do with a Naive nature and V-Create, even without EV investment it is stronger than Fire Blast, and allows you to punish special wall switchins.

 

[SJCrew]

Do you normally go up against Choice Scarf Victini? Choice Band Victini does well into the 50s with V-Create and has no reason to switch. You can Morning Sun heal if your Arcanine has Leftovers (not likely, since you said it has Wild Charge), but otherwise, an experienced Victini player should know that they can easily get away with attacking again.

 

[Lady Shinki]

Why does nobody use MixTini?

Victini @ Life Orb
4 Atk/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Hasty / Victory Star

Grass Knot/Energy Ball/Psychic
Fire Blast
Thunderbolt
V-Create

Fire/Electric/Grass is almost perfect coverage, and V-Create gets a 2hko on Chansey.

 

[Pocket]

^ Have you thought of using Searing Shot over Fire Blast? With Victory Star boosting FB, it is actually a very powerful and dependable move now, but the 30% burn of Searing Shot with the good 100 BP seems too good to pass up, even on an offensive Victini.

Unless you miss out on certain OHKO / 2HKOs with Searing Shot, I feel like it is worth a try to leave a lasting mark on even resisted mons.

Not too sure if you need Thunderbolt, since Grass Knot seems to cover most Water and Rock threats. Brick Break will OHKO Houndoom 52% of the time without SR, so it's a dependable way to prevent Victini from getting revenge killed. If Electric move is necessary against light Water Types and Fire Types, than Thunder has a 62% chance of killing Houndoom with a layer of Spikes + SR (Fusion Bolt 93% of the time, although it probably wont hurt physically defensive Fire Types). HP Rock would help dispatch Arcanine more handily.

 

[SJCrew]

Thunderbolt won't do jack shit to Milotic. You should be running Thunder for the guaranteed 2HKO. Psychic already handles Arcanine, so you don't need anything silly like HP Rock (which forces you to lose speed ties with other Victini, btw).

 

[jagged_angel]

Do you normally go up against Choice Scarf Victini? Choice Band Victini does well into the 50s with V-Create and has no reason to switch. You can Morning Sun heal if your Arcanine has Leftovers (not likely, since you said it has Wild Charge), but otherwise, an experienced Victini player should know that they can easily get away with attacking again.

Actually I run 252 HP EVs on my Arcanine which means Choice Band Victini does 41.9% - 49.5% after Intimidate with V-Generate. Since the speed drop means BandVictini can't outspeed, then even if I had Stealth Rock damage I can sponge the attack with Morning Sun. Scarftini is more dangerous since it can get in 2 hits before I can heal, doing 28.1% - 33.1% with each hit. For my calcs I used Adamant for both pokemon.

I normally face Scarftini though, it's much better and that's reflected in its higher usage since even in UU, so much outspeeds unboosted base 100s.

To illustrate, on my team I have 5 checks to the Choice Band set, but only one solid and one shaky check to the Scarftini set.

 

[SJCrew]

It would be a shame for Arcanine to have to lose that recovery option in Sand or Hail, but UU isn't exactly weather-dominated, so I see your point.

Your points about Scarf being better and Victini's speed issues are incorrect. Base 100 is the speed tier in UU, with Victini, Celebi, Shaymin, Mew, Flygon, and Zapdos taking residence and not fearing a damn thing faster than them outside of a couple of key Scarfers. Most of Victini's checks rely on walling it, like Slowbro, Milotic, and Blastoise, all of which can take V-create for days, and anything else besides an Electric attack. Choice Band is first in the UU analysis and for good reason: it is the most fearsome Victini set there is because it isn't as easy to wall or check as Choice Scarf, and there are plenty defensive and slower offensive Pokemon Victini can come in on and force your opponent into a checkmate.

 

[Sung-Hyun Jin]

How about using searing shot over fire blast? it has 30%chance of burn and reliable accuracy. Might give it full defense and make it a quiverpass recipient...

 

[UncleFinger]

How about using searing shot over fire blast? it has 30%chance of burn and reliable accuracy. Might give it full defense and make it a quiverpass recipient...

It mostly depends on what it misses out with Searing Shot as opposed to Fire Blast.

 

[Benny in a Jet]

Searing Shot has 100% accuracy against Fire Blast's 93.5%, as well as a 30% burn rate against Fire Blast's 10%. Fire Blast has 20 more base power. SS is probably generally more useful, like a beefed up Lava Plume.