(MC) Middle Cup Tier

[R4GEKILL]

Hi, I'm R4GEKILL, but many people know me as the Middle Cup Guy.​

What is Middle Cup?
Middle Cup is a (currently) unofficial tier consisting of a very select range of Pokemon. It is similar to Little Cup except the stipulations are more.
It was an extremely ignored metagame created on Smogon in Gen4. This thread was created because I WANT TO BRING IT BACK!!! Between the New Dream World abilities, The lack of any permanent weather starters, and the introduction of the Evolite, I think that Middle Cup could actually be a Serious competitive metagame in gen 5.
Where can I play Middle Cup?
On Pokemon Online, on the Smogon server, there is a channel called "Unofficial Metagames".
You should look there for battles, or just PM/VM anyone that posts on this thread regularly.
The Rules of Middle Cup are as follows:
-All Pokemon must be Level 50
-All Pokemon must have evolved from something (even if from a Baby)
-All Pokemon must be able to evolve into something
A LINK TO THE SEREBIIFORUM THREAD (If you're interested in the cases other people have made before I put this on smogon):
http://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=536140
A LIST OF ALL THE CURRENT POKES ALLOWED IN MIDDLE CUP:
http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?evolution_position=middle
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THREATLIST:
(THANKS MELVINI)​

The 78 Pokemon in the Tier, Divided by Type

Normal – Pidgeotto, Clefairy, Jigglypuff, Chansey, Porygon2, Togetic, Vigoroth, Loudred, Staravia, Herdier, Tranquill
Fighting – Machoke, Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Gurdurr
Flying – Pidgeotto, Golbat, Togetic, Skiploom, Staravia, Tranquill
Poison – Ivysaur, Kakuna, Nidorina, Nidorino, Golbat, Gloom, Weepinbell, Haunter, Roselia, Whirlipede
Ground – Graveler, Rhydon, Piloswine, Pupitar, Marshtomp, Vibrava, Gabite, Palpitoad, Krokorok
Rock – Graveler, Rhydon, Pupitar, Lairon, Boldore
Bug – Metapod, Kakuna, Silcoon, Cascoon, Swadloon, Whirlipede
Ghost – Haunter, Dusclops, Lampent
Steel – Magneton, Lairon, Metang, Klang
Fire – Charmeleon, Magmar, Quilava, Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Lampent
Water – Wartortle, Poliwhirl, Seadra, Croconaw, Marill, Marshtomp, Lombre, Sealeo, Prinplup, Dewott, Palpitoad
Grass – Ivysaur, Gloom, Weepinbell, Bayleef, Skiploom, Grovyle, Lombre, Nuzleaf, Roselia, Grotle, Servine, Swadloon
Electric – Pikachu, Magneton, Electabuzz, Flaaffy, Luxio, Eelektrik
Psychic – Kadabra, Kirlia, Metang, Gothorita, Duosion
Ice – Piloswine, Sealeo, Vanillish
Dragon – Dragonair, Vibrava, Shelgon, Gabite, Fraxure, Zweilous
Dark – Nuzleaf, Krokorok, Zweilous

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest HP in the Tier

Top – Chansey (250), Jigglypuff (115), Rhydon (105), Piloswine (100), Pignite/Sealeo (90), Porygon2/Gurdurr (85), Loudred (84), Vigoroth/Machoke (80)
Bottom – Pikachu (35), Kirlia (38), Kadabra/Dusclops/Whirlipede (40), Haunter/Kakuna (45), Grovyle/Magneton/Cascoon/Silcoon/Metapod/Vibrava/Roselia (50)

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Attack in the Tier

Top – Rhydon (130), Fraxure (117), Gurdurr/Boldore (105), Piloswine/Machoke (100), Magmar/Shelgon/Graveler (95), Pignite (93)
Bottom – Chansey (5), Metapod/Marill (20), Kakuna (25), Kirlia/Kadabra/Cascoon/Silcoon (35), Togetic/Lampent/Duosion (40)

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Defense in the Tier

Top – Lairon (140), Dusclops (130), Rhydon (120), Graveler (115), Boldore (105), Shelgon/Metang (100) Whirlipede (99), Klang/Seadra/Magneton (95)
Bottom – Chansey (5), Jigglypuff (20), Kadabra/Pikachu (30), Kirlia (35), Nuzleaf (40), Loudred (43), Haunter/Roselia/Grovyle/Krokorok (45)

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Special Attack in the Tier

Top – Duosion (125), Magneton/Kadabra (120), Haunter (115), Porygon2 (105), Magmar/Roselia (100), Seadra/Lampent/Electabuzz (95)
Bottom – Marill (20), Kakuna/Metapod/Cascoon/Silcoon (25), Chansey/Herdier (35), Staravia/Fraxure/Gurdurr/Whirlipede (40)

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Special Defense in the Tier

Top – Dusclops (130), Togetic/Chansey (105), Porygon2 (95), Magmar/Electabuzz/Gothorita/Klang (85), Roselia/Ivysaur/Wartortle/Bayleef/Metang/Swadloon (80)
Bottom – Kakuna/Metapod/Cascoon/Silcoon/Jigglypuff (25), Staravia/Pikachu/Boldore/Nuzleaf (40), Tranquill (42)

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Speed in the Tier

Top – Electabuzz/Kadabra (105), Grovyle/Haunter (95), Magmar (93), Golbat/Vigoroth/Poliwhirl/Pikachu (90), Seadra (85)
Bottom – Cascoon/Silcoon (15), Jigglypuff/Boldore (20), Dusclops (25), Metapod/Duosion (30), Kakuna/Graveler/Clefairy (35)

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Stat Totals in the Tier

Top – Porygon2 (515), Magmar (495), Electabuzz (490), Rhydon (485), Magneton (465), Golbat/Dusclops (455), Chansey/Piloswine (450), Vigoroth/Seadra/Klang (440)
Bottom – Cascoon/Silcoon/Metapod/Kakuna (205), Marill (250), Jigglypuff (270), Kirlia (278), Pikachu (300), Clefairy (323), Lombre/Nuzleaf/Vibrava/Staravia/Skiploom (340)

 

[Jaetheho]

oh gosh. dusclops and chansey are gunna be SOOOOO BROKEN. not to mention porygon-2.

 

[Percussionist]

I remember this. Somebody want to post some fun sets? Off the top of my head, I remember Machoke acting as a mini-Machamp. Eviolite will go a long way to making him last longer. I'd be willing to try this out if enough people start playing it.

 

[R4GEKILL]

I actually tested this on PO with some people from serebii...
It was pretty kick ass. It's a psuedostall tier with no auto-weather, and a lot of viable pokes. Nothing is really "Broken" (Other then maybe Kadabra if you don't run chansey or dusclops or a dark type), But It really is fun to use things like amnesia ivysaur, nastypass togetic, Pory2, gurdurr, dusclops, roselia, SpecsDabra, ElectiBand, etc.
It's pretty damn fun. It's honestly better then OU for me JUST because of the higher amount of originality behind it, and the MUCH smaller metagame.

 

[Jaetheho]

i really wanna play. i can see the pseudo legends as some of the top tier sweepers. also combusken.

hydreigon'sprevowhosenameiforgot.
@eviolite/ adamant/ hustle
252 attack 252 hp 4 defense
outrage
dragon claw
crunch
filler

fraxure @eviolite
adamantx 252 attack 252 speed 4 hp
dragon dance
dragon claw/sub
outrage/sub
dig/rock smash

dratini
@eviolite
252 hp 252 attack 4 speed adamant
dragon dance
roost
waterfall/extremespeed
outrage

combusken
@eviolite
adamant 252 attack 252 speed
protect/shadow claw
swords dance
flare blitz
sky uppercut


with dragons running around, i see klang (i think) and metang as top walls

metang
impish
252 hp 252 defense
meteor mash
earthquake/sleep talk
toxic/hone claws
filler (rest)

 

[Percussionist]

R4GEKILL, could you fix the link in the OP? I'm getting a 404 Error. But I'm interested in trying this out, we should have a match sometime.

 

[R4GEKILL]

Honestly, offense is kinda trash in this tier. You're hitting OU defenses with RU offenses. That's why trick and knock off users are key in this tier. Lol. that's also why I win so many matches...

 

[Jaetheho]

^agreed. chansey porygon2 and dusclops are all ou viable and used a great deal, too. however pokemon like dragonair arent used. at all.

oh and i forgot gabite.
another note, weather is not present. could this be the clear skies we always wanted?

 

[Percussionist]

Honestly, offense is kinda trash in this tier. You're hitting OU defenses with RU offenses. That's why trick and knock off users are key in this tier. Lol. that's also why I win so many matches...

I imagine everything in the tier is running Eviolite, which is why it's so bulky. Interesting, a tier stall can actually be used in this Gen.
EDIT: @bluemon: I'm looking forward to that, as I can't play OU due to the amount of weather it holds. Without automatic weather, I feel this will be a fresh tier using OU's little brothers, and lots of Eviolite.

 

[alphatron]

I recall using sturdy lairon as my SR setter back when I played this. Worked pretty well. Then again, I was using a custap berry.

Yeah, so worturtle being the only rapid spinner is awful.

 

[R4GEKILL]

^agreed. chansey porygon2 and dusclops are all ou viable and used a great deal, too. however pokemon like dragonair arent used. at all.

oh and i forgot gabite.
another note, weather is not present. could this be the clear skies we always wanted?

I think so. This has absolutely no weather starters. But SOME DICK will come along and make a rain dance team... I can feel it...

I imagine everything in the tier is running Eviolite, which is why it's so bulky. Interesting, a tier stall can actually be used in this Gen.

Not EVERYTHING, some pokes run choice items. But yeah, mostly Evolites.

 

[Jaetheho]

okay. just look through middle stage pokemons... i see two more viable offensive pokemon.

maril.... ehhh. idk. could be tho with choice band. but the next pokemon can rip the whole metagame apart.
ready?



pikachu. with light ball.
95 speed is kickass in middle cup and has focus punch to handle chansey. i can see pikachu being a top top threat. it also has lightning rod now :) and nasty plot.

 

[R4GEKILL]

Lol. Kadabra and Electabuzz are the fastest in the tier, with base 105.

 

[Jaetheho]

WAIT GUYS.
this just struck me


wartortle is the only rapid spinner.....


that means toxic spikes+spikes+stealth rock spam.

ohmygosh. this is worse than UU. there are seriously no middle stage rapid spinners except wartortle.

EDIT: another strategy: trickrrom. with middlecup's horrible speed, i can see durian? (reuniclus prevo... solosis mayeb?) ripping teams to shreds with 125 special attack. plus, its immune to entry hazards.

 

[blarajan]

I recall using sturdy lairon as my SR setter back when I played this. Worked pretty well. Then again, I was using a custap berry.

Yeah, so worturtle being the only rapid spinner is awful.

WAIT GUYS.
this just struck me


wartortle is the only rapid spinner.....


that means toxic spikes+spikes+stealth rock spam.

ohmygosh. this is worse than UU. there are seriously no middle stage rapid spinners except wartortle.

he's way ahead of you =).

anyways what actually is middle tier and has access to tspikes/spikes?

 

[Jaetheho]

awwww :( i didnt see that.

as far as i know, scolipedes prevo has toxic spikes
roselia has tosic spikes...

ill look up spikes.

 

[alphatron]

Roselia gets spikes and tspikes. Thanks budew...

 

[SlimMan]

edit: ninja'ed horribly but mine is more complete so w/e

anyways what actually is middle tier and has access to tspikes/spikes?

T-Spikes: Roselia, Whirlipede, Nidorina, Nidorino
Spikes: Roselia, Whirlipede
and as alpha/blue already said...
Rapid Spin: Wartortle

not a horrible imbalance IMO
but SR will be everywhere cuz a ton of shit got it in gen4

i could get into this tier later but not now :/

 

[Jaetheho]

im definitely using whirlipede. its defenses arent too shabby either. gosh this thing is going to show up everywhere. now we have to look up magic coat users and taunt users. fast aunt is a saving grace in middle cup.

 

[SlimMan]

im definitely using whirlipede. its defenses arent too shabby either. gosh this thing is going to show up everywhere. now we have to look up magic coat users and taunt users. fast aunt is a saving grace in middle cup.

Magic Coat: Porygon2
that's it
Taunt: a shitload of things

 

[Jaetheho]

haha actually

porygon2
kadabra
magneton
bayleef
kirlia
igglybuff
togetic

they aall get magic coat.

 

[SlimMan]

haha actually

porygon2
kadabra
magneton
bayleef
kirlia
igglybuff
togetic

they aall get magic coat.

Gen4 move tutor = no Gen5 moves or DW abilities
but I think kadabra is the only one who cares about that anyway..........

 

[Jaetheho]

none of those pokes benefit from DW EXCEPT KADABRA and even then, its not released yet. and they didnt get notable moves in 5th gen and all the tms they can use so no problem.

 

[R4GEKILL]

Derp. I'm not running a spinner or even a spiker, SR setup, or T-Spike setup on my team.
But it's a great idea, and i'm pissed I didn't think of it myself O.O

 

[BurningMan]

Gen4 move tutor = no Gen5 moves or DW abilities
but I think kadabra is the only one who cares about that anyway..........

You only can`t use Gen 5 Egg moves. Tms and Level Up moves are okay (unless you learn them after Lvl 50 )