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Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Earthquake
Hi, all. This is user: Zurich reporting for duty! Following what's been done in the RU, LC, and Uber DST sections, I think it's time that OU has its own CCAT! The CCAT, or Community Create - a - Team, is where the general populace of (in this case) OU will come together to make a competitive team, which gets a lot more players involved than going to the RMT section and looking there.
Please stay on topic - (once we get to the point where we have chosen a Pokemon, don't change the topic, and vice versa)
The process will go as such (big thanks to Heysup, c/p'd and changed from Crux's OP):
Step 1: We are going to start by picking which forgotten Pokemon (and set) we are going to be basing the team around. This does NOT mean the Pokemon has to be the late game sweeper, it means the team will be built around that Pokemon, whatever role it plays. This thread is for nominating Pokemon to be added to a poll (Pokemon that you think fit the description of a "forgotten" Pokemon). After a couple of days (probably around one-two days, until enough pokemon are in the poll (around 10)), I will select which Pokemon are going to be in the poll that will be posted after we decide on a list of Pokemon. This means you have to convince me, and others, that your Pokemon is worth being put in the vote.
Note: A "Forgotten Wonder" is something is less used then the average OU Pokemon / set, but is still powerful enough to be used in the standard metagame. So no Caterpies, Magikarp, Beldum, Etc. Thanks.
Note 2: You can suggest forgotten or underrated "sets", i.e. Bulk Up Toxicroak, considering SD is so popular. We have chosen LO Nidoking.
Step 2: We select what style of team we want to make. This will likely include something along the lines of Offense, Bulky Offense (closest form of stall..), Weather, Trick Room, and possibly more. We have chosen Balance / Bulky Offense.
Step 3: We select Pokemon that work well around our Pokemon and fit the team style and test it.We have chosen 5 teammates.
Step 4: We fine-tune the team based on our experiences in test-driving the team on the ladder! We have chosen ginganinja's proposed changes
Step 5: We finalize the team and write up a 5-star RMT!
As a final note, make sure that whatever you test is actually viable instead of theorymonning.DONE!
I got the reminder from the sprite on the OP, but Conkeldurr is a great mon to build a team around. With t-wave support it is very difficult to beat and it can set up so so easily on common mons like Ttar, Ferro, ect. It fares well against paralyzed offensive teams (especially physical dual screen teams), and stall alike. Even impish quag takes around 45% from a guts drain punch, meaning it won't really stop you if you get purposely burned. Conk also checks things like Hydreigon and Terrakion (and the late Excadrill) if needed. It's a sweeper than is effective but can also serve as a useful counter to things and hold its weight. Something like Terrakion can't counter Ferrothorn, it just sweeps some of the time lategame. Conk is all around useful.
Sounds cool, I think with the way OU is structured, we need to determine a playstyle before proceeding with picking Pokemon. Unlike the lower tiers, where its just offense, stall, and balance, OU has a plethora of viable playstyles ranging from Sun Heavy Offense to Rain Stall. After picking a playstyle, we should then proceed with voting for a "team Ace" so to speak and build around it to fulfill the playstyle.
Naw naw naw. Conkeldurr and Salamence are not forgotten wonders, they're still everywhere. I'm thinking something like DDance or Bulk Up Scrafty (preferably DDance because it's just not seen as often) or like something really wild and crazy, like SD Ferrothorn.
It would be really cool to do a Hail team since its almost never seen in OU now a days. Stall or a Blizzspam team would actually be really fun to make successful.
Another idea I was thinking of would be making the ultimate anti weather team. Creating a team that could counter Hail,Sun,Rain and Sand wouldnt be easy but it has lots of potential.
Well I was rather bored so I skimmed through the B/W Dex and started looking for things that I thought might be underrated or forgotten. If I was only supposed to pick one, then don't open the hide tags so I don't bias you. I may be biased on some because they might be "cooler" to me just because of my favorite-Pomeon-list and such. XD
-Sharpedo - Maybe not as underrated as it could be, but still not very seen and can hurt quite badly, as seen on Agamemmnon's (spelling...?) RMT somewhat recently.
-Shaymin - This poor little hedgehog is so cool, but Ferrothorn-o-ration has made everyone forget this little guy. Shaymin can co-op with other things on your team (hi Volcarona! Lemme help you with that Heatran!), absorb Electric and Water moves, and NOT die from Pursuit/weaker U-turns. Major cool points.
-Zoroark- Is it hard to use? Yes. Does Team Preview hurt its usability? Yup. Can it really mess with your opponent if played right? You betcha. There's the appeal.
-Nidoking - Question not the might of the 4-foot tall king. Another not-expected threat in the OU environment with its excellent coverage and awesome utility with immunity to Electric and Toxic, and absorbing Toxic Spikes for your walls/pivots/grounded sweepers. Not to mention it, like Shaymin, is just really cool.
-Aggron - Last generation when it got Head Smash to combine with Rock Head, Aggron was major "cool" and "commendable" points to those who could use him well enough. The Fighting abundance now won't help, but if we can unleash that deadly Head Smash it'd be a sight to see.
-Archeops - Why not let this bird live up to the hype we gave it before we knew what its ability was? All I have to say here.
-Sableye - Yeah, it's on a hype spike right now, I'm aware. And rather guilty of cranking up its usage numbers myself; I think half its usage this month is from me... But why not make people not just say "Sableye sucks" by default? Personal favoritism for my lil ghosty...
-Eelektross- Poooor sad forgotten Electric eel... But with Thundurus gone, he has a slightly bigger niche to fill on a team as an Electric STAB.
-Cloyster - I'm aware this is still on OU, but barely. And why? It can murder pretty much everything after a Shell Smash, including the great wall Ferrothorn. If I can only put in one vote, this is it. You know that feeling of fear you get every now and then deep in your gut and very soul? That's what you get when you let one of these set up in front of you and it proceeds to go to town with your team, often dying from its own Life Orb recoil because you can't touch it. And even if you can, will it do enough? Even at -1, its base 180 Defense is insane and defends from all non-Vacuum Wave priority moves, so it'll eat that Mach Punch and kill your face. It does require a good bit of support, but with the metagame being what it is with Prankster Thunder Wave Thundurus and hyper-fast Excadrill gone, as well as Dragonite and Hyper Offensive teams one the rise, both of which aren't able to well defend from Cloyster, this may be our clam's time to truly shine and destroy the world.
Those are my thoughts. If I can only nominate one, see the last one on the list.
What's the retarded clown's biggest problem? Probably 4MSS. This set gets rid of that by not using BU, missing out on Defense boosts while adding crucial coverage. The standard Durr either gets rid of one of the two punches, leaving it without recovery or priority, or they pass on Stone Edge, giving Flying types a free switch. Flame Orb is a rarity nowadays, but would you rather it asleep? No, you don't. The set is also supposed to have staying power, like most Durrs, so Toxic Orb is not recommended. It's a different way to go from the standard Durr, and definitely qualifies as a forgotten wonder.
I'd specifically love to see a team that struggles with weather, so they use Abomasnow as an offensive Pokemon that can keep the opponent on their toes. With a Choice Band or Life Orb, it has a great enough physical movepool to hit all other weather starters for super effective damage. This is a role that methinks Abomasnow could play really well, but he seems to almost always be used on a Hail team or not at all.
On another note, one of the least loved sets of Dragonite is the Parashuffler set. With the loss of Excadrill and Thundurus (and the downfall of Gliscor), this thing can cause a headache to so many teams. As we all know, Dragonite is nearly impossible to OHKO at maximum health thanks to Multiscale, and this set abuses that directly. If we picked Parashufflin' Dragonite, we could then model a team that fights well against paralyzed teams, which means tons of variety for us! Perhaps Conkeldurr or Head Smash Rampardos could join his posse. It's a greatly effective set that could really use some love AND makes a fantastic team player. The Special Defense EVs allow it to not get plowed over by random HP Ice / Ice Beam, but some could easily be distributed to Defense.
We should use Snorlax. Let the king join the fray one more time. Really one of those forgotten pokemon that people tend to just skim over just because it isn't on the OU list. Curselax still destroys late game, and Bandlax puts dents in everything. Snorlax really should be at least looked at.
I agree with this. Mence has been in OU all this time but he hasn't really been given a chance to shine in 5th gen. For the most part he's been overshadowed by other more prominent threats. Bulkymence and Specsmence are outclassed by Nite and Latios though, so if mence is chosen I think either mixed or DD are the best sets to go with. One set I haven't seen though would be something like:
I would greatly support Pockets proposel of Mteagross, but I would make a few changes. I would definitley change Earthquake for Bullet Punch just because it offers lots of utility for revenging killing, specifcally Terrakion. I also would want the Speed investment to be changed to 60 Speed EVs at the minimum to outspeed specially defensive Heatran. Now, I know this seems stupid because Metagross is also using Hammer Arm, but having that little advantage over Heatran when you havn't used Hammer Arm is indespinsable.
Leftovers
Timid
252 HP/252 Speed/4 Special Attack
Dragon Pulse
Calm Mind
Substitute
Recover
Latias is a check to many things, and in the current metagame she has many opportunities to set-up on pokemon like Politoed, Tentacruel, some forms of Ferrothorn, and many other pokemon that have been popularized by weather wars. Latias is very easy to support as she requires two things to have a successful sweep: the breakdown of steels (such as scizor) and Toxic Spikes, which will help her break common counters such as Blissy and to a certain extent Tyranitar. She has monster special defense and this set will use substitute to ease prediction and help her escape from pokemon like scizor, while also preventing the possibility of her getting critted or statused while setting up.
Shaymin is an extremely overlooked threat in this meta, and while it doesn't really have the capability to sweep through teams, it can be an excellent supporter and part of a core.
I don't think we've really seen a definitive team with Shaymin on it this gen, so this will bring something fresh to the table and give the team a unique flavor.
It also pairs well with a lot of pokes (namely things that like to switch into Dragon or Fire types, depending on the fourth move) so it'll give us flexibility over the course of the project as well.
And yes I have tested Shaymin and it works really well without crippling misses e.e
Supporting Metaboss, though I don't think Agiligross is the way to go. I used one with Meteor Mash/Earthquake/Pursuit/Bullet Punch, Adamant 128HP/252ATK/128SDEF (given those EV's are pretty arbitrary) and LO with great effect. Really underrated in this meta.
I think Agiligross got enough love in OU last gen. If I had to nominate something, I would nominate Curse Ferrothorn. As stupid as it sounds, it's actually really good with the right team support. After a few Curses, it's damn hard to get rid of lol. If you're looking for really unorthodox, Curse Ferrothorn is your best bet :)
Something that this thread seems to be lacking in comparison to other CCAPs is continual discussion about the sets people are posting. So while I highly encourage users to keep on posting sets, I'm just going to provide some of my initial thoughts on the suggestions and see if I can help get the discussion ball rolling!
Note: Any suggestions that I make are up to reinterpretation. EVs, natures, and moves can all be easily swapped in and out.
As I posted earlier, Abomasnow is a great Pokemon that really isn't getting a lot of love. It has the ability to severely dent all other weather starters AND fire off Base 120 Dual STABs. Hail Stall could be another route that we take, but I'd prefer focus on a more offensive set. While I absolutely love Choice Band sets (and Life Orb to a degree), I think I'd personally recommend a Choice Scarf with the following set:
These EVs allow it to outspeed Base 111 Speed Pokemon (Tornadus), which is quite impressive. Choice Scarf allows Abomasnow to abuse both ends of the spectrum; Blizzard and Wood Hammer hit for some impressive damage. Ninetales absolutely hates taking Earthquake on the switch and can usually be 2HKO'd by it since it will likely stay in against Abomasnow (watch out for Loontales). Abomasnow is a great threat that can really hit hard in today's metagame when left to its own devices. I'd be in support of an Abomasnow set!
Sharpedo - Maybe not as underrated as it could be, but still not very seen and can hurt quite badly, as seen on Agamemmnon's (spelling...?) RMT somewhat recently.
-Zoroark- Is it hard to use? Yes. Does Team Preview hurt its usability? Yup. Can it really mess with your opponent if played right? You betcha. There's the appeal.
-Nidoking - Question not the might of the 4-foot tall king. Another not-expected threat in the OU environment with its excellent coverage and awesome utility with immunity to Electric and Toxic, and absorbing Toxic Spikes for your walls/pivots/grounded sweepers. Not to mention it, like Shaymin, is just really cool.
-Aggron - Last generation when it got Head Smash to combine with Rock Head, Aggron was major "cool" and "commendable" points to those who could use him well enough. The Fighting abundance now won't help, but if we can unleash that deadly Head Smash it'd be a sight to see.
-Archeops - Why not let this bird live up to the hype we gave it before we knew what its ability was? All I have to say here.
-Sableye - Yeah, it's on a hype spike right now, I'm aware. And rather guilty of cranking up its usage numbers myself; I think half its usage this month is from me... But why not make people not just say "Sableye sucks" by default? Personal favoritism for my lil ghosty...
-Eelektross- Poooor sad forgotten Electric eel... But with Thundurus gone, he has a slightly bigger niche to fill on a team as an Electric STAB.
-Cloyster - I'm aware this is still on OU, but barely. And why? It can murder pretty much everything after a Shell Smash, including the great wall Ferrothorn. If I can only put in one vote, this is it. You know that feeling of fear you get every now and then deep in your gut and very soul? That's what you get when you let one of these set up in front of you and it proceeds to go to town with your team, often dying from its own Life Orb recoil because you can't touch it. And even if you can, will it do enough? Even at -1, its base 180 Defense is insane and defends from all non-Vacuum Wave priority moves, so it'll eat that Mach Punch and kill your face. It does require a good bit of support, but with the metagame being what it is with Prankster Thunder Wave Thundurus and hyper-fast Excadrill gone, as well as Dragonite and Hyper Offensive teams one the rise, both of which aren't able to well defend from Cloyster, this may be our clam's time to truly shine and destroy the world.
While Sharpedo is a great asset in today's metagame, its weakness to priority and Jolteon set it back. Furthermore, Politoed is almost required, which would limit out teammate pool considerably. Zoroark would be interesting to have discussion on which Pokemon its going to attempt to pass off as its Illusion, so I wouldn't be opposed to this outcome. Nidoking is an awesome Pokemon but I often don't see it as the center-piece of a team. Its sets (to me) are rather predictable; however, the ability to pick up T-Spikes is fun! Do you have any ideas on how Nidoking could potentially be a set-up sweeper? Its immunity to both Toxic and Thunder Wave could make things interesting. Aggron is a straight up baller that would be pretty difficult to build a team around. But if we could pull it off... Rock Head-based Head Smash is one of the coolest deals out there. Archeops frightens me because it needs LOTS of support (Wish / Heal Bell / Rapid Spin) to work, and in my opinion, the payback is relatively low in comparison to the support required. Sableye is in the same boat as Nidoking, in my opinion. A great support Pokemon that I wouldn't necessarily center a team around. Eelektross is pretty darn weak, in my opinion, but maybe my experiences with it have just been lackluster. If I saw a great set with some stats I might be swayed!
Now Cloyster I could definitely see working with. Shell Smash + Skill Link is an absolute monster to deal with in today's metagame. Furthermore, we could try a Utility set (check out some of yee's calcs on how bulky this thing is (yet still OHKO's Dragonite). When given the right support, Cloyster can be an absolute monster. Its standard set would do:
Cloyster @ White Herb
Nature: Jolly
EVs: HP 40 / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
What's the retarded clown's biggest problem? Probably 4MSS. This set gets rid of that by not using BU, missing out on Defense boosts while adding crucial coverage. The standard Durr either gets rid of one of the two punches, leaving it without recovery or priority, or they pass on Stone Edge, giving Flying types a free switch. Flame Orb is a rarity nowadays, but would you rather it asleep? No, you don't. The set is also supposed to have staying power, like most Durrs, so Toxic Orb is not recommended. It's a different way to go from the standard Durr, and definitely qualifies as a forgotten wonder.
While I am in support of Flame Orb Conkeldurr much more so than regular variations, it's still so predictable (specifically the moveset). Almost everyone knows what to expect from Conkeldurr now-a-days. It's only a matter of sending in your physical wall and stopping it/phazing it out. Furthermore, I don't really see how it would work as a "centerpiece" Pokemon. Mienshao strikes me as a more attractive idea than Conkeldurr, and that is saying something. Perhaps if there were some calcs to prove how much better Flamedurr is better than Bulkdurr, I probably wouldn't put my weight behind this set. I just don't see the vision right now.
We should use Snorlax. Let the king join the fray one more time. Really one of those forgotten pokemon that people tend to just skim over just because it isn't on the OU list. Curselax still destroys late game, and Bandlax puts dents in everything. Snorlax really should be at least looked at.
Snorlax is a cool guy. I could really see getting into one of its sets in terms of team building. It has a plausible movepool and some crazy-go-nuts stats to work with. He could function well on an offensive team, a trick room team, a sun team... The list goes on! Thick Fat is also a fun ability that is pretty under appreciated in today's metagame. I am personally partial to the OU Curselax set:
It's also pretty darn advantageous to not have to run any sort of Speed EVs since it's already too slow to outpace anything of note. This guy could really shine on an bulky offensive team.
As for my own nomination, I'd like to suggest Metagross. Many factors hinder Metagross to truly shine this gen (nerf in Explosion's power and introduction of JelliThorn in particular), an OU mon that is not really OU, lol. It has the means to succeed in OU, though, with its surprisingly versatile physical movepool and nifty support / set-up options combined with its awesome physically inclined stats.
There are a handful of interesting sets that Metagross can execute. I am more interested in its full-out offensive set, since those promise to be unexpectedly devastating imo.
Metagross @ Choice Band / Life Orb
216 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe | Adamant Nature
~ Meteor Mash
~ Hammer Arm / Agility
~ Earthquake
~ ThunderPunch / Zen Headbutt
While I like Bandgross much more than its Agility variants, I am still a bit wary about Metagross on the whole. Meteor Mash's accuracy frightens me to this day, while being locked into a Choice Steel attack is not always optimal. Furthermore, there are lots of threats in today's metagame that don't do Metagross any favors, namely Dragonite, Ninetales, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Sableye, Skarmory, Politoed... the list goes on. And while ThunderPunch might alleviate some of these issues, I question its power on Metagross (maybe some calcs could help clear things up). While Metagross wouldn't be my favorite choice, it has a surprising amount of variety in its movepool and could lead to some pretty great discussion. I would also recommend Trick as an option in the fourth moveslot; it helps against foes like Politoed, Skarmory, Blissey, Chansey, and Latios while giving Metagross the option to utilize its entire movepool. Just a thought!
I agree with this. Mence has been in OU all this time but he hasn't really been given a chance to shine in 5th gen. For the most part he's been overshadowed by other more prominent threats. Bulkymence and Specsmence are outclassed by Nite and Latios though, so if mence is chosen I think either mixed or DD are the best sets to go with. One set I haven't seen though would be something like:
I personally think that Salamence is a great Pokemon that is highly underestimated in comparison to Dragonite. What shocks me is that many people play Dragonite so poorly: they don't run Rapid Spin support OR Roost, so I don't see the appeal of Multiscale at all in those cases. But enough of my griping, haha. Salamence is a champion who is a huge threat with only one DD under its belt. If we were going with a set like yours, I would recommend Outrage over Dragon Claw. And if we happened to pick a route that utilizes a Sun-team, we could perhaps use Fire Fang! Salamence also has a huge movepool that could see a lot of love. I would be for a team built around Salamence, sure! One of my favorite sets that I've always thought would be a romping good time to build a team around is its Defensive set. People always seem to forget that Dragon-type is an awesome defensive type that can really put the opponent at odds. This kind of set on a stalling team could be a hoot:
This is just one of the MANY possibilities we could run with Salamence. There's so much untapped potential hear that DST could really rip into effectively.
Leftovers
Timid
252 HP/252 Speed/4 Special Attack
Dragon Pulse
Calm Mind
Substitute
Recover
Latias is a check to many things, and in the current metagame she has many opportunities to set-up on pokemon like Politoed, Tentacruel, some forms of Ferrothorn, and many other pokemon that have been popularized by weather wars. Latias is very easy to support as she requires two things to have a successful sweep: the breakdown of steels (such as scizor) and Toxic Spikes, which will help her break common counters such as Blissy and to a certain extent Tyranitar. She has monster special defense and this set will use substitute to ease prediction and help her escape from pokemon like scizor, while also preventing the possibility of her getting critted or statused while setting up.
Latias is an interesting choice. Its diverse movepool and unique typing allow it to fulfill a variety of roles. I would personally rather build a team with Salamence or Dragonite if we were looking for a Dragon-type candidate, but each to his own. I would love to see Roar on that set somewhere, which allows Latias to boost up alongside other threats and then send then away. Right now I guess I'm on the fence about Latias!
Shaymin is an extremely overlooked threat in this meta, and while it doesn't really have the capability to sweep through teams, it can be an excellent supporter and part of a core.
I don't think we've really seen a definitive team with Shaymin on it this gen, so this will bring something fresh to the table and give the team a unique flavor.
It also pairs well with a lot of pokes (namely things that like to switch into Dragon or Fire types, depending on the fourth move) so it'll give us flexibility over the course of the project as well.
And yes I have tested Shaymin and it works really well without crippling misses e.e
Ferrothorn still frightens the living daylights out of me if we were to use Shaymin. I would personally prefer an attacking set since it gets pretty darn good coverage. That is saying something, since I normally am a huge proponent of any set that involves Leech Seed. I just think that Shaymin as bigger and better things to do than stall around. Whimsicott and Ferrothorn outclass it in that role, in my opinion. I would love to see Shaymin hit the OU seen again thought. It really is a viable threat!
Sorry this post got so long; eek! I just hope that it can lead to some discussion rather than us posting whatever set is on our mind. Let's hear some opinions too alongside those thoughts!
I'm in support of a team around salamence, but IMO, Mixed is its best set. Pair it SD lucario and you have an amazing offencive core. I also love Protect + Leech Seed Shaymin, so I guess we could build a team around those three or something. Anyway, here's a cool mon I came across while playing some broken-ass BP teams. It's a Mawile lol, but Super Mario Bro really fucked my team up with it lol:
I would support the DD Salamence idea. It is something around which you can create a team, it IS good and fairly under-rated this gen due to D-nite. It can work in HO teams(dual screen + sweepers), bulky offense teams, balanced teams, etc. It is also a fan favorite if it matters.
I will post the set even though someone has already done it.
