Latias (Life Orb Tank)

[RaikouLover]

[SET]
Name: Life Orb Tank
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Recover
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Refresh
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 152 HP / 176 SpA / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While most conventional Latias sets attempt to support or sweep over a long period of time, this set turns Latias into an immediate offensive threat. This Latias will still provide a useful defensive pivot while maintaining offensive momentum. Draco Meteor is the main weapon in Latias' arsenal, dealing heavy damage to anything that does not resist it. Surf provides excellent neutral coverage alongside Draco Meteor, and is a safe opening move that won't lower your special attack. It should be noted that the combination of Surf followed up with Draco Meteor can help with Latias's Pursuit weakness, as it will always 2HKO a 248 HP Scizor after Stealth Rock. Recover allows Latias to switch in multiple times during the course of a match and mitigates Life Orb recoil.</p>

<p>The final slot can be tailored to fit each team's needs by providing either better coverage or team support. Hidden Power Fire is a primary option because it cleanly OHKOs all forms of Scizor. Because Latias is such a safe Rotom switch in, Latias can be used to break U-turn / Volt Switch chains because Rotom will almost always switch to Scizor. Hidden Power Fire also allows Latias to avoid being completely walled by Ferrothorn, provided it is not raining. Hidden Power Fighting can 2HKO most Tyranitar and can also hit Ferrothorn regardless of weather conditions, but misses out on OHKOing Scizor. Thunderbolt adds more neutral coverage and allows Latias to better handle Skarmory, Gyarados, and other bulky waters. Refresh and Psycho Shift are good options if your team needs something to absorb status. Refresh is generally more reliable, but Psycho Shift can inflict a poison, burn, or paralysis onto a troublesome foe. Wish, Reflect, Roar, and Thunder Wave can help fulfill additional team support.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EV spread optimizes Latias's role as a bulky, hard hitting tank. 152 EVs yields 339 HP, providing a healthy amount of bulk at an optimal Life Orb number. The 180 Speed EVs allow Latias to reach a speed of 300 with Hidden Power Fire, which is just enough to outspeed neutral nature base 100s. For those worried about Salamence or tying Latios and other Latias, a Timid nature can be used with either the same spread or a standard 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe build. However, this spread will sacrifice either power or bulk.</p>

<p>Because this Latias is more offensively orientated, it requires different team support to maximize its effectiveness. Like most special attackers, Latias has no way of breaking through the fat pink blobs, Blissey and Chansey. Anything that can lure out and defeat them such as Trickers, Psycho Shock users, or Fighting-pokemon that can shrug off status make great teammates for this set. With Hidden Power Fire, most Steel-types are less of an issue, but Latias is still hard pressed to do any kind of damage to Special Defensive Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong. These are all trapped relatively easily by Magnezone, or defeated by Earthquake wielding Dragon Dancers like Salamence, Haxorus, and Gyarados.</p>

 

[Pocket]

Innovative set as always, RaikouLover! This Latias fixes the problem the standard CM tank has - lack of immediate power. The loss of Speed is huge, though, not letting it check as many things as the CM tank. I guess I should think of this Latias as a slightly bulkier, less deadlier, and a slower variant of LO Latios?

Although this Latias can certainly fight back against TTar, it wont be breaking it. LO Surf + Draco Meteor with SR against the standard Tyranitar does ~73%, which is quite impressive but falls short.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Tyranitar will always cause problems for the Lati twins no matter what. If you're really desperate to get rid of it, you could always use HP Fighting:

Latias' 176 SpA Modest Life Orb HP Fighting vs. 252 HP / 76 SDef Sassy Tyranitar: 51.5% - 61.4% (easy 2HKO)

 

[shrang]

Personally, I think this is better:

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Surf / Hidden Power Fire
- Psyshock
- Recover

With this spread, you can easily revenge kill Virizion, Terrakion and Mienshao with Psyshock and Landorus with Surf, while still outspeeding Hydreigon, unboosted Salamence and Haxorus. Unlike the Calm Minder on site, you still have plenty of power, while unlike the Specs set, Latias can still easily switch into rain and use Recover.

 

[RaikouLover]

I'll be sure to mention 4 / 252 / 252 Spread in AC, but at that point I'd rather use Latios to be honest. You'd be surprised at how much those HP EVs help. Latias is pretty bulky with a just little HP buff. Psyshock and HP Fighting will definitely be mentioned. Really Draco Meteor and Surf are all that is set in stone. The third attack has infinite possibilities!

I will try to emphasize why you would try not to make this a carbon copy of offensive LO Latios. Recover and some bulk is really the main reason. Latias can still switch into a few things without losing half its HP like its brother.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I think, by using this set, Latias is no longer pressured into using moves that would render it useless in certain situations. Another benefit of this is that Latias attains a good mix of immediate power and bulk, which benefits it in a metagame full of rain stall and VolSwitch-related Hyper Offense (how retarded...).

I'll be sure to test this out. The only issue I'm worried about is the inability to outrun Naive Salamence, though to be fair, half the metagame has issues with this, lol.

 

[Pocket]

Yea, there is also SubCM Jirachi and VOLCARONA that Latias would prefer to outrun. Although Latias can't outright kill any of these mons with a Timid Nature, it does deal a heavy blow on them to limit their set up sweep. Jirachi takes ~43% damage from a Rain-boosted Surf before it can Calm Mind, for instance.

I am talking about this alternative spread

152 HP / 168 SAtk / 188 Spe | Timid

I kept the same HP EVs to keep the bulk intact; I simply played around with the Speed and the Special Atk EVs, but ultimately it ended up similar to yours (except for the Nature). It still consistently takes out -1 Lucario with Draco Meteor. Although it misses out on SR + Surf + DM KO on Scizor, the combination does do 96% to the bug, which may be worth the speed boost.

The damage output against TTar is noticeably lower - it does 67% versus Modest Latias's 73% with SR + Surf + DM, but ultimately they both lose against TTar without HP Fighting. Unfortunately, Timid Latias falls short in scoring a 2HKO with HP Fighting to the standard 252 HP / 192 SDef Ttar, doing ~93% after rocks :/.

The speed EVs lets it beat up to Jolly Landorus.

PS - another advantage that I found for Modest Latias - it can threaten to 3HKO (w/ Rocks) specially-defensive Jirachi in the Rain after very little residual damage. I am beginning to wonder which variant is better, Timid or Modest :x

EDIT: Thanks, Seth Vilo.

 

[Seth Vilo]

If you're running HP Fire, Pocket's spread changes to 152 HP / 168 SpA / 188 Spe to still accomplish hitting the 332 Speed benchmark and outrunning Landorus (331).

 

[NatGeo]

imo, sub should go in ac to help tank random attacks and take status from rotom-w if you don't have refresh or psycho shift

 

[RaikouLover]

I'll have to test out Timid. I never fooled around with it because Latias doesn't have that great 130 SpA stat that Latios does.

I think, by using this set, Latias is no longer pressured into using moves that would render it useless in certain situations. Another benefit of this is that Latias attains a good mix of immediate power and bulk, which benefits it in a metagame full of rain stall and VolSwitch-related Hyper Offense (how retarded...).

I actually found this set to single handily dismantle those teams. Scizor is OHKOed by HP Fire, you can Recover off volt switches and Landorus' U-turn all day, and you flat out wall Rotom and the occasional Jolteon.

Whatever we decide, I really think the bulk needs to be stressed:

Adamant +2 LO Lucario Extremespeed: 71-84% <--- No room for error! 100% survival with SR
Choice Scarf Landorus U-turn: 48-57%
Choice Scarf Terrakion X-Scissor: 57-67%

You wall Heatran, Rotom, Rain dudes all day either way, just because Latias is a boss. No point in calcs because the extra bulk is just "takes them better" I'll figure some offensive calcs for here for things Latias is being used to Check.

LO Latias Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr - 85-101% (43.75% chance to OHKO with SR)
LO Latias Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor (SD Glisc) - 89-105% (100% OHKO with SR)
LO Latias Draco Meteor vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W - 96-114% (100% OHKO with SR)
LO Latias Surf vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor - 43-51%, 65-76% (Rain)
LO Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor - 48-57%
LO Latias HP Fire vs. 252 HP / 248 SpD Ferrothorn - 68-80%
LO Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terakion - 92.5-108% (87.5% chance to OHKO with SR)
LO Latias Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory - 50-59% (100% 2HKO with SR)
LO Latias HP Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory - 73-86%
LO Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD+ Skarmory - 67-79%

Ohhh, your best bet against Jirachi is HP Fire in the Sun, lol, which manages 49-58%. Without Sun, or Surf with Rain is still at best a 3HKO with residual damage. Damn Jirachi.

 

[Seth Vilo]

One thing though about your EV's too, RL, is that if you use HP Fire on the Modest 152 HP / 176 SpA / 180 Spe spread, you actually don't hit that 330 jump point thanks to the 30 SpA IV required for said Hidden Power, leaving you at 328. You'd need 180 SpA to do that, and you can't take that last point from Speed or HP, as both those are more important numbers to be hitting.

 

[PK Gaming]

This is a v. cool set, though I think Pocket's spread should be the main one (not sure, more testing needs to be done)

QC APPROVED (1/3)

 

[Pocket]

If one goes with the Timid route, one might want to bump down Latias's HP another 10 or 20 points to invest into SAtk (or even more Speed to beat Mienshao / Terrakion).

72 HP Latias
Adamant +2 LO Lucario Extremespeed: 75-89%
-19% room for error / death with SR
Choice Scarf Landorus U-turn: 51-60%
Choice Scarf Terrakion X-Scissor: 60-70%

112 HP Latias
Adamant +2 LO Lucario Extremespeed: 73-86%
-no death with SR
Choice Scarf Landorus U-turn: 49-58%
Choice Scarf Terrakion X-Scissor: 58-68%

 

[RaikouLover]

One thing with lowering the HP though, means your more likely to tank the hit and die with Lucario (if it matters, lol) from orb damage. But having 1 HP of death fodder is always useful :)

 

[Setsuna]

I'm cool with this set. Make sure to highlight Timid and everything that comes with it in your additional comments.

QC APPROVED (2/3)

 

[Iconic]

QC Approved 3/3

 

[RaikouLover]

So, what is the consensus of the primary spread?

Timid needs a tad more SpA because its weaker.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I believe Setsuna said to mention the Timid nature (and alternative EV Spreads and benefits) in the AC. You may make the Modest nature (and all EV spreads that go with it) primary, with Timid either as a slash or just a mention.

 

[Bloo]

Putting this in copy editing since it's been QC approved. Let's see this written up!

 

[RaikouLover]

Added the comments. The Damage calculator I normally use is down at the moment so I couldn't do the calcs yet!

 

[Shame That]

Amateur GP Check!
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[Set]
Name: Life Orb Tank
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Recover
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Refresh
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 152 HP / 176 SpA / 180 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>While most conventional Latias sets attempt to support or sweep over a long period of time, this set provides turns Latias into [To be crystal clear] an immediate offensive threat. This Latias will still provide a useful defensive pivot while still maintaining offensive momentum. Draco Meteor is the main weapon in Latias' arsenal, dealing heavy damage to anything that does not resist it. Surf provides excellent neutral coverage alongside Draco Meteor, and is a safe opening move that won't lower your special attack. It should be noted that the combination of Surf followed up with Draco Meteor is fairly resistant to Pursuit can help with Latias's Pursuit weakness [Fairly resistant sounds like the moves resist Pursuit @.@], as it is good for does a minimum of (insert Scizor / Tyranitar calc). Recover allows Latias to switch in multiple times during the course of a match and mitigates Life Orb recoil.</p>

<p>The final slot can be tailored to fit each team's support or coverage needs,[Add Comma] providing either better coverage or team support. Hidden Power Fire adds additional utility in being able allows Latias to break U-turn / Volt Switch chains with relative ease, as Latias she is a good perfectly able to switch into Rotom.[Add Period] Rotom will then almost always switch to Scizor, who will be swiftly that will almost always lure out and subsequently OHKOed Scizor[Sorry for the sentence rewrite, but it was just too long with no breaks. It Hidden Power Fire also allows Latias to avoid being completely walled by Ferrothorn,[Add Comma] provided it is not raining. Hidden Power Fighting can 2HKO most Tyranitar and can also hit Ferrothorn regardless of weather conditions,[Add Comma] but misses out on OHKOing Scizor [Just a quick mention of the downsides]. Thunderbolt adds more neutral coverage and allows Latias to better handle Skarmory, Gyarados, and other bulky waters. Refresh and Psycho Shift are good options if your team needs something to absorb status. Refresh is generally more reliable, but Psycho Shift can pass inflict a poison or burn onto a useful target a troublesome foe. Wish, Reflect, Roar, and Thunder Wave can also find some use depending on the team's (tense? [Huh?]) needs.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>The EV spread optimizes Latias' role as a bulky,[Add Comma] hard hitting tank. 152 EVs yields 339 HP,[Add Comma] for a providing healthy amount of bulk at an optimal Life Orb number. The 180 Speed EVs allow Latias to reach a speed of 300 with Hidden Power Fire, which is just enough to outspeed neutral nature base 100s. For those worried about Salamence or speed tying other Lati@s Latias [Lati@s isnt allowed; mention Latios too though if you want, a Timid nature can be used with the same spread,[Add Comma] or a standard 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. However, this spread will have to sacrifice either power or bulk.</p>

[Team Options]
<p>Because this Latias is more offensively orientated, it looks to different team support to maximize its effectiveness. Like most special attackers, Latias has no way of breaking through the fat pink blobs,[Add Comma] Chansey and Blissey [Newbies use the analyses too :3]. Anything that can lure out and defeat them such as Trickers, Psycho Shock users, or and Fighting-[Add Hyphen]pokemon that can shrug off that ignore status all make great teammates for this set. With Hidden Power Fire, most Steel-[Add Hyphen]types are less of an issue, but Latias is still hard pressed to do any kind of damage to Special Defensive Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong. These are all trapped relatively easily by Magnezone,[Add Comma] or defeated by Dragon Dance users like Salamence and Gyarados.</p>

Excellent work, Raikou! :)

 

[hamiltonion]

This still needs the <p></p> tags, dont know how everyone missed them.

 

[sandshrewz]

Lol. And should be [SET] [SET COMMENTS] [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]. Team options is under AC, do remove that tag as well.

 

[Shame That]

Oh. Good calls guys. Feelin' stupid @.@

 

[Jellicent]

DI, try not to leave amateur GP check placeholders when it already had an amateur check earlier that day... Anyways, I'm going to stamp Shame That's check, just a few nitpicks...

Add those <p> </p> tags, bro.
The third sentence to the second paragraph in SC only needs "who" once.
In Team Options, make it Fighting-type Pokemon and Steel-types. You need to capitalize and add that hyphen.

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