Hippowdon (Life Orb Tank)

[complete legitimacy]

Hippowdon

[SET]
name: Life Orb Tank
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Ice Fang
move 4: Slack Off
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Sand Force
nature: Adamant
evs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Another take on Hippowdon sees it functioning as a bulky tank, capable of both taking many physical attacks and dealing significant damage in return. Hippowdon's Attack is significantly boosted by both Sand Force and Life Orb, which makes it a fantastic lure for physical walls, as it is capable of beating both Gliscor and Ferrothorn. This allows common sandstorm sweepers, such as Terrakion and Landorus, to sweep. Factoring in Sand Force, Earthquake becomes a 130 Base Power STAB move, while also having perfect accuracy and no drawbacks. Along with Stone Edge, it has great coverage on nearly everything in the tier. Under sandstorm, only the most physically bulky of Pokemon will be able to take repeated hits from either move. Ice Fang is essential for breaking down Gliscor, as it takes little from Stone Edge and can Toxic Hippowdon and wear it down slowly. It also hits most Dragon-types for greater damage than Stone Edge and gets a clean OHKO on Landorus. Slack Off is a great asset for Hippowdon, since it mitigates hazard damage as well as Life Orb recoil, preventing a premature death.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Life Orb is the primary item choice, as with it, Ferrothorn is 2HKOed with Earthquake, and Gliscor is too with Ice Fang. However, Leftovers is also a viable option to bluff a defensive set, allowing the opponent to remain unsuspecting until it is too late. Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature allows Hippowdon to hit as hard as possible on different threats. 28 Speed EVs allow you to outrun 0 Speed Chansey, Donphan, and Tangrowth, allowing you to hit them hard with either Earthquake or Ice Fang before they can strike. Fire Fang is another option to hit Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor harder than Earthquake; however, it is not recommended as none of them like taking Life Orb Sand Force Earthquakes, and they can't beat Hippowdon anyway. Also, a Sand Force-boosted Stone Edge will always do the same amount of damage to Skarmory as a super-effective Fire Fang. Another option to be considered is Sand Stream, freeing up a spot on your team for something other than Tyranitar. However, you should never run both Sand Stream and Leftovers, because Hippowdon becomes very weak and you're better off using the defensive set at that point.</p>

<p>Tyranitar is a teammate you should always have when using this set, as it provides permanent Sandstorm and activates Sand Force. It can also set up Stealth Rock, which is very beneficial, as it allows Leftovers Hippowdon to always 2HKO Gliscor. Ferrothorn is another great partner, as it possesses both great synergy and the ability to lay down more hazards. It is best to pair Hippowdon up with something that can take advantage of Gliscor and Ferrothorn's absence; Terrakion and Landorus are the most notable Pokemon here. This set also appreciates paralysis support; Celebi is a good choice, as it has decent synergy.</p>

<p>Hippowdon is best dealt with by either Skarmory or Bronzong. Skarmory can take a Stone Edge, set up Spikes, and phaze. However, it must be careful when Roosting, as it will take heavy damage from Earthquake. Bronzong takes little from Hippowdon's attacks; however, it can't do much back, as its Hidden Power Ice doesn't do nearly enough. Defensive Rotom-W can switch in to anything bar Stone Edge, and can use either Will-O-Wisp to cripple it for the rest of the match or Hydro Pump to demolish it. You can also exploit the fact that Hippowdon takes damage from all forms of entry hazards. While it has recovery, it is rather slow so it can be hit hard before it has a chance to use Slack Off.</p>

 

[pie cream]

Maybe show some calcs?

 

[complete legitimacy]

Maybe show some calcs?

Good idea.

Sand Force Earthquake vs. 252/88 Relaxed Ferrothorn= 60.56%-71.24%
Guaranteed 2HKO

Ice Fang vs. 252/184 Impish Gliscor= 78.42%-92.26%
Chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Sand Force Earthquake vs. max/max Bold Slowbro= 54.41%-64.01%
Guaranteed 2HKO

 

[danilo]

Put those calcs in the whats it called... first post!

 

[-Tsunami-]

Is there any reason not to be running Stone Edge over Crunch?
EdgeQuake coverage is always extremely helpful, and Crunch hits absolutely nothing that the other moves cannot. Crunch is only 10% stronger than Earthquake on things such as Reuniclus anyway.

 

[Pocket]

If you account for Sand Force boost, EQ is actually 21% stronger than Crunch against SE mons! Crunch is still useful for nailing Latias / Latios / Celebi / Bronzong.

 

[complete legitimacy]

All right, so I've edited in the calcs to the OP.

I somehow forgot about Crunch hitting Laios and Latias for super-effective damage (thanks Pocket). But yeah, you would never run Crunch over Stone Edge since EdgeQuake will always have superior coverage.

 

[Techniloom]

Isn't Stealth Rock kind of Silly because firstly its a Choice Set and Secondly Tyranitar can do it. What about Superpower for hitting Ferrothorn, Blissey, Bronzong, Balloon Heatran, Balloon Terrakion, Scrafty, Hydreigon and Balloon Metagross.

 

[Techniloom]

You do know that he can get Superpower because it is one of Hippopotas Dream World moves right?

 

[Mynism]

What advantages does it have over Landorus ? the djinn is immune to spikes, isnt murdered by Rotoms, has acces to Uturn,.. Explain please

 

[danilo]

The only real advantage is superior bulk, but i dont think that alone makes it worthy of a set.

 

[complete legitimacy]

What advantages does it have over Landorus ? the djinn is immune to spikes, isnt murdered by Rotoms, has acces to Uturn,.. Explain please

However, Hippowdon can switch in to almost every physical attacker bar Gyarados, tank the hit, and deal huge damage in return. While Landorus isn't frail, it's not switching in to almost anything that Hippowdon can switch into.

You do know that he can get Superpower because it is one of Hippopotas Dream World moves right?

Thank you for correcting me. Superpower is indeed viable, and the only thing Hippowdon would miss out on would be Stealth Rock, which you wouldn't be using if you ran Superpower. However, a lot of things you mentioned are either not viable, not legitimate Hippowdon checks, or are 2HKOd by Hippowdon's other moves. The sole exception to this is Bronzong, which isn't going down to any of Hippowdon's moves including Superpower. While it is viable, it is generally an inferior option. I will change that in the OP when I have time.

 

[doughboy]

Unfortunately we are going to have to wait to use Superpower Hippowdon because the scripts for Rugged Mountain Pokemon haven't been updated yet

 

[Techniloom]

However, Hippowdon can switch in to almost every physical attacker bar Gyarados, tank the hit, and deal huge damage in return. While Landorus isn't frail, it's not switching in to almost anything that Hippowdon can switch into.

Thank you for correcting me. Superpower is indeed viable, and the only thing Hippowdon would miss out on would be Stealth Rock, which you wouldn't be using if you ran Superpower. However, a lot of things you mentioned are either not viable, not legitimate Hippowdon checks, or are 2HKOd by Hippowdon's other moves. The sole exception to this is Bronzong, which isn't going down to any of Hippowdon's moves including Superpower. While it is viable, it is generally an inferior option. I will change that in the OP when I have time.

Well it's defiantly better than Crunch because Lati@s and Celebi are all hit by Ice Fang while Superpower does more to Bronzong (letting you 2HKO it with a bit of prior damage) as well as doing the same damage as Crunch after the attack drop. It also lets you 1HKO Ferrothorn which is much better because you then don't have to take a Power Whip from it. Then there is Heatran who would be immune to Earthquake and resistant to Ice Fang but with Superpower you can 1HKO it so you don't take unpleasant Fire Blasts and Lava Plumes. Then Terrakion which could come in set up a Swords Dance or Rock Polish while all you could do is do a weak Ice Fang, resisted SE or switch out basicly giving a Free Turn of set-up (more if you want to break it's balloon). It also lets you 2HKO Metagross with some prior damage which would otherwise set up an agility on you.

So I really see no Reason not to use Superpower over Crunch.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Well it's defiantly better than Crunch because Lati@s and Celebi are all hit by Ice Fang while Superpower does more to Bronzong (letting you 2HKO it with a bit of prior damage) as well as doing the same damage as Crunch after the attack drop. It also lets you 1HKO Ferrothorn which is much better because you then don't have to take a Power Whip from it. Then there is Heatran who would be immune to Earthquake and resistant to Ice Fang but with Superpower you can 1HKO it so you don't take unpleasant Fire Blasts and Lava Plumes. Then Terrakion which could come in set up a Swords Dance or Rock Polish while all you could do is do a weak Ice Fang, resisted SE or switch out basicly giving a Free Turn of set-up (more if you want to break it's balloon). It also lets you 2HKO Metagross with some prior damage which would otherwise set up an agility on you.

So I really see no Reason not to use Superpower over Crunch.

Ferrothorn's Power Whip isn't doing a lot to Hippowdon. Heatran gets wrecked by Sand Force Stone Edge. Terrakion has literally no use for an Air Balloon, since it doesn't need to check Excadrill anymore, still can't beat Gliscor, and not only loses the extra power from Life Orb but gives away that you're not Banded or Scarfed. Metagross is almost nonexistent, and pretty bad anyway.

 

[Pocket]

I agree with Techniloom. Hippowdon is able to survive a +2 Close Combat from Air Balloon Terrakion and it would suck for Hippowdon not to be able to retaliate with Superpower. A surprise OHKO on the common Air Balloon Heatran on the switch is also priceless. Superpower has a 87.5% chance to OHKO Blissey, which Earthquake fails to do.

It deserves a slash over Stealth Rock at least.

 

[Snorlaxe]

The only real advantage is superior bulk, but i dont think that alone makes it worthy of a set.

i think it absolutely makes it worthy of a set. the current metagame is pretty heavily focused on a mix of bulk and power, and choice band hippowdon has both great bulk and great power. plus, absolutely nobody expects the set, so netting surprise KOs is quite easy. never underestimate the power of surprise value. but anyway, the fact that hippowdon is so much more bulky than landorus means that this set deserves a spot in the analysis imo

 

[danilo]

But I feel like the fact that Landorus is just always better because it resists close combat and other fighting moves, and it can avoid everything on the ground.

 

[Techniloom]

Why are you even arguing Legitimacy? How is 2HKO Pokemon better than 1HKO them in any way at all? You have got to admit that that the only thing that Crunch has over Superpower is hitting Lati@s and Celebi for 18.5% more damage than Ice Fang (which you should only be doing on the Switch because you should defiantly not be staying in on them) while Superpower lets you 1HKO Ferrothorn, Heatran, Blissey, Hydreigon, Terrakion, Scrafty and 2HKO Bronzong and Metagross with a bit of prior damage.

But I feel like the fact that Landorus is just always better because it resists close combat and other fighting moves, and it can avoid everything on the ground.

It just comes down to bulk vs speed really, Some teams will wont Hippowdon while some will want Landorus. There is also the fact that Hippowdon has a fighting move and is not completely walled by Bronzong. I also think that this set will be enough to bump Hippowdon back up to OU.

 

[Mynism]

Do you think a LO set with Slack Off over Crunch/Superpower is worth playing ? If this set is Im sure it is too actually. It let him be a good counter to lots of things w/ Slack Off and solve his main problem : immunities and resistance. On EQ lots of things can come. Same story for SE and Ice Fang. LO let him nails lots of mons with good prediction (and beat Skarmory 1v1)

 

[Soulous]

Stealth Rock is incompatible with Sand Force. Also, I believe that if specs gastrodon uses recover in the fourth slot, I see no reason why cb hippowdon cannot use slack off in the fourth slot.

 

[complete legitimacy]

Why are you even arguing Legitimacy? How is 2HKO Pokemon better than 1HKO them in any way at all? You have got to admit that that the only thing that Crunch has over Superpower is hitting Lati@s and Celebi for 18.5% more damage than Ice Fang (which you should only be doing on the Switch because you should defiantly not be staying in on them) while Superpower lets you 1HKO Ferrothorn, Heatran, Blissey, Hydreigon, Terrakion, Scrafty and 2HKO Bronzong and Metagross with a bit of prior damage.

Fine. I see your point. That will probably become the main choice, but for now I'm going to put Crunch first because there has been no chance to playtest with Superpower over Crunch.

Do you think a LO set with Slack Off over Crunch/Superpower is worth playing ? If this set is Im sure it is too actually. It let him be a good counter to lots of things w/ Slack Off and solve his main problem : immunities and resistance. On EQ lots of things can come. Same story for SE and Ice Fang. LO let him nails lots of mons with good prediction (and beat Skarmory 1v1)

I believe that as the metagame develops we will see that a lot more often. However, right now I feel that the Choice Band set wil be more effective simply for the fact that it hits really hard without your opponent expecting it. The Life Orb recoil will immediately give away that you're running an offensive set, and even if you don't use Earthquake your opponent still might think that it's just running a coverage move on the bulky set, especially if it's Stone Edge.

Stealth Rock is incompatible with Sand Force. Also, I believe that if specs gastrodon uses recover in the fourth slot, I see no reason why cb hippowdon cannot use slack off in the fourth slot.

Thank you and fixed. Like I said before, that is better off on a LO set, but it is already in the Addiotional Comments.

 

[alexwolf]

Complete Legitimacy,your opponent will easily understand that you are not running a defensive set if you run either item(LO or CB) because he will notice the lack of Leftovers(excpet if you are at full health) so practically both sets have the same surpirse value.

 

[Cherub Agent]

Mabye mention that Hippowdon can also pull off a great Choice Band set with Sandstream? Sure Sand Force is great, but people will know something's iffy if both Hippo and Ttar are on the same team. I think Sandstream deserves an AC mention

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm going to see if a LO + Slack Off set will be of any use. I've tried this set for a bit and as is, it's simple too slow for my liking. Sure it could take hits and dish them out, but I honestly preferred the likes of Landorus.