Shedinja (QC 3/3)?

[athleteandy1]

[Overview]

-nifty idea
-LOL FINAL GAMBIT LOL
-interesting movepool
-lotta weaknesses
-not immune to any non-attacking ways of damage (hail, ss, burn, toxic, hazards)
-needs lotta team support

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: X-Scissor
move 3: Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Protect
item: Focus Sash / Lum Berry
nature: Lonely
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

-not too weak
-sd lets the ninja bug thats not accelgor kill tings
-x scissor is strongest move
-shadow sneak is stab and reliable
-sucker punch is stronger and works mediocre well with prediction
-wow spreads burn to support team
-return hits flying / normal types and provides more coverage

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-needs spinner
-lonely makes him strongest
-no reason at all to invest heavily in hp or def or spD
-the 4 in SpD makes the odd Download poke get the boost in atk
-only download poke is porygon, who is pretty much never seen
-same thing with lonely
-needs teammates to take status, like wow and toxic
-poisons or fires
-needs pokes to resist weak types
-need to resist fire, ghost, dark, flying, rock, im prob forgetting some

[SET]
name: Banded Ninja
move 1: X-Scissor
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Sucker Punch / Protect
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Band
nature: Lonely
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

-tricky to play against
-trick cuz most people switch to a wall to absorb any hit and status back
-x scissor is strongest move
-the other two for priority
-protect so you can see if the opponent plans on you switching so they lock themselves into a move that doesn't affect Shedinja (assuming Tricked)

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-band makes him strong
-lonely lowers def so download gets atk boost
-only download poke is porygon, who is pretty much never seen
-hasty outspeeds nothing noteworthy
-raise atk or spe, whichever you prefer
-invested in the two things worth investing in
-still needs spinners
-all the more needs team support for weak types and status
-poisons / steels and fires for status
-poisons absorb t-spikes
-steels have most synergy
-weak to rock, fire, dark, flying, ghost
-steels got all but fire
-if only there was a heatran in this tier...
-fires have little synergy

[Other Options]

-if you use a life orb, you're a moron
-confuse ray to troll
-gets agility, iirc
-baton pass, but illegal with sd or other cool moves
-shadow claw, but outclassed by shadow sneak and x scissor
-LOL FINAL GAMBIT LOL
-aerial ace and dig are dumb

[Checks and Counters]

-hazards
-status
-leech seed
-pursuit is best way
-fire, rock, ghost, flying, dark
-even an ember from a level 1 pignite will OHKO
-specifically, cincinno can break sash and ko and is faster and is immune to shadow sneak
-braviary and unfezant and others of the same typing are immune to shadow sneak and resist x scissor and are often faster

 

[Cherub Agent]

don't mention honchkrow as a counter, this is NU..

 

[athleteandy1]

don't mention honchkrow as a counter, this is NU..

oops...

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Personally, I'd run this set:

Shedinja @ Life Orb
Move 1: Sandstorm
Move 2: Harden
Move 3: Substitute
Move 4: Final Gambit/Double Edge
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef

This set is really good on Sandstorm teams, as it can summon Sandstorm for 5 turns. Harden to raise his already decent defenses along with as much investment in bulk as possible. It's hard to believe, but if it misses, Shedinja can actually survive a tackle from Magikarp. Pretty impressive. Final Gambit is enough to take out most of the metagame (if used in conjunction with around 300 revives) but Double-Edge is also there if you want Shedinja to do a respectable amount of damage (hits pretty hard with LO) and still die. Substitute blocks status of course (they can't burn you if there's nothing to hit). This is a great set to ladder with, and I've even managed to make it work in Ubers.

On a more serious note, there are more specific counters to Shedinja that you could list, like Emboar or many of the Normal/Flying type Pokemon down here that can resist its STAB, out-speed it, and can easily survive a Sucker Punch.
I think Agility deserves a place on a set as (other than its multiple weaknesses) Shedinja's greatest flaw is its fairly low speed. Being able to speed up might allow it to deal with specific counters that it could easily OHKO if it were faster.
Grudge is kinda gimmicky but it could help cripple the Pokemon that takes out Shedinja.
When it comes to the SpDef EV's you have on the first set for screwing with Download users, you've got the wrong idea with it. Download is going to give the opponent a boost depending on what stat is higher, not depending on the EV's that the stat has put into it. Really you should just scrap that comment altogether.
Looks like you've pretty much got everything else covered.

 

[breh]

as CM said, the EVs / nature should just be 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant. there's no sense in preparing for download when the only mon with it is Porygon (lol); the less work that players in the real game (wifi) have to do to get a usable shedinja, the better. You don't need 508 EVs.

CB set is iffy to begin with, but it should be X-Scissor/Shadow Claw/<priority move>/Trick nonetheless. I'm fairly sure that Trick should go in slot 4. Putting protect on a mon that could be banded is an awful idea and putting wisp on one is a slightly better idea but still not a good one.

 

[athleteandy1]

Personally, I'd run this set:

Shedinja @ Life Orb
Move 1: Sandstorm
Move 2: Harden
Move 3: Substitute
Move 4: Final Gambit/Double Edge
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef

This set is really good on Sandstorm teams, as it can summon Sandstorm for 5 turns. Harden to raise his already decent defenses along with as much investment in bulk as possible. It's hard to believe, but if it misses, Shedinja can actually survive a tackle from Magikarp. Pretty impressive. Final Gambit is enough to take out most of the metagame (if used in conjunction with around 300 revives) but Double-Edge is also there if you want Shedinja to do a respectable amount of damage (hits pretty hard with LO) and still die. Substitute blocks status of course (they can't burn you if there's nothing to hit). This is a great set to ladder with, and I've even managed to make it work in Ubers.

On a more serious note, there are more specific counters to Shedinja that you could list, like Emboar or many of the Normal/Flying type Pokemon down here that can resist its STAB, out-speed it, and can easily survive a Sucker Punch.
I think Agility deserves a place on a set as (other than its multiple weaknesses) Shedinja's greatest flaw is its fairly low speed. Being able to speed up might allow it to deal with specific counters that it could easily OHKO if it were faster.
Grudge is kinda gimmicky but it could help cripple the Pokemon that takes out Shedinja.
When it comes to the SpDef EV's you have on the first set for screwing with Download users, you've got the wrong idea with it. Download is going to give the opponent a boost depending on what stat is higher, not depending on the EV's that the stat has put into it. Really you should just scrap that comment altogether.
Looks like you've pretty much got everything else covered.

I mentioned agility in oo. I don't think it really warrants its own set. The stuff about the evs might not come into play ver much, but its still a possible, however unlikely event and is something to do with those extra evs. I probably should expand on the counters a bit, so ill get on that when I'm on a computer next.

as CM said, the EVs / nature should just be 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant. there's no sense in preparing for download when the only mon with it is Porygon (lol); the less work that players in the real game (wifi) have to do to get a usable shedinja, the better. You don't need 508 EVs.

CB set is iffy to begin with, but it should be X-Scissor/Shadow Claw/<priority move>/Trick nonetheless. I'm fairly sure that Trick should go in slot 4. Putting protect on a mon that could be banded is an awful idea and putting wisp on one is a slightly better idea but still not a good one.

The event of download is still a possibility and it is up to the reader to be competent and weigh the risks of it. I'll grant that a porygon switching in is not very likely, but this ev spread is perfectly designed to handle all aspects of the metagame and not to be easy to get in game. Its just a nature and iv, which is less ludicrous than some hidden powers. As for the band set, shedinja is meant to trick its band off sooner than most other choiced pokes, so trick is the first slot. Then comes the two attacking moves that shedinja will always have. Then protect allows it to scout and see if the enemy over predicted and you can stay in.it was in the 4th gen cb set, iirc.

 

[breh]

no, I mean it's a standard that trick usually goes last on most sets:

latios
jirachi (see set 4)
rotom w

in general, the format for offensive mons is something like <strongest STAB move> / <next strongest STAB move> / <setup move (if any) / coverage move> / <setup move / status move / 4th coverage move>

again, I don't feel that protect and will-o-wisp have merit on the set. shedinja should be attacking and it will not always get to (or want to) trick off its CB.

the event of download is very close to 0; if you see somebody using it, they're not good.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Ah, didn't notice the 0 Def IV's. My bad. Still, nobody's using Porygon. Not going to hurt though, so I'll drop it.
The other stuff was just suggestions.

You should try out that set ;) It's pretty overwhelming.

 

[fade5]

Uh, Naive lowers Sp. Def, which means Porygon will get the Sp. Atk. boost, I think Hasty is the correct nature.

Also, giving Shedinja access to Final Gambit is proof Gamefreak does have a sense of humor :)

 

[Rakan]

The first set should not have return slashed as it offers no further coverage. I'd like to see protect either slashed or in the ac to help predict what the opponent will use, and this making it easier for shedinja. I'm not too sure about the CB set though, I'll see what other qc members have to say.

 

[tennisace]

I don't think Hasty (+spe -def) should be slashed and should just be AC because:

With Lonely, you outspeed min Spe Base 70 mons by 3 points or so (which means all the major walls basically). With Hasty, you only tie with min Spe Base 80 mons (nothing you can beat from 71-80 that runs min speed really).

Agreeing with Omicron, Protect > Return, mention if you want a 3rd attack just run both Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch (since you can't hit Braviary/Swellow with Shadow Sneak and you could conceivably revenge kill them at lower health). Also get rid of Lum Berry why bother with that, you shouldn't stay in to take a status attack at all no matter what.

The EVs should be set up to force Porygon to get an Attack boost, its an insanely rare scenario but it could happen and what else are you going to do with them lol. 4 EVs is nothing for a Wifier...

CB looks like an OO type of set to me really since Shedinja really likes that Focus Sash.

 

[breh]

4 EVs is nothing for a wifier, but a 0 IV is a bit more difficult. its DP analysis had just 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant even though porygon2 was NU. I don't see why it should be different this time around.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

It's different this time around because the guy doing the analysis is putting more thought into it. Yeah, it's ridiculously unlikely that someone's going to send in Porygon on Shedinja (it's only moves that can hurt it are Aerial Ace, Shadow Ball, and Hidden Power), but you might as well make sure that if that situation ever occurs, the Porygon gets a useless boost.
Smogon's good at being crazy over-prepared. It's how we like to be.

 

[Style_Dota]

For the choiced set, I would make Sucker Punch the main 4th move. Protect on a choiced user seems like a waste of a move slot, even if you intend on tricking away your choice item. Sucker Punch also gives you priority against faster Pokemon like Cinccino.

Oh, mention Cinccino in the counters, as Rock Blast will break sash and KO. Cinccino is also immune to Shadow Sneak, so it will most likely be going first.

 

[athleteandy1]

So: nixed Hasty, made trick 4th moveslot, made sucker punch / protect third moveslot in band set, and replaced return with protect in sd set. I'm keeping the lum berry as a slash, tennisace, simply because it's always been second to focus sash (since last gen), but i'll make sure to emphasize how much better focus sash is. I'm also keeping the cb set because it's pretty good at revenge killing and forcing switches and it just seems to work.

 

[tennisace]

4 EVs is nothing for a wifier, but a 0 IV is a bit more difficult. its DP analysis had just 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant even though porygon2 was NU. I don't see why it should be different this time around.

I should rephase: 4 evs and a 0 iv really isn't hard at all for a wifier, RNG is stupidly easy to manipulate this generation. Having irc open, I could ask in #smogonwifi for a Shedinja exactly to the analysis specifications and have one within the day (if someone already doesn't have one ready). I know its irrelevant in 99.99% of situations, but Smogon is geared for simulator play and it should be prepared for the silliest of situations.

So: nixed Hasty, made trick 4th moveslot, made sucker punch / protect third moveslot in band set, and replaced return with protect in sd set. I'm keeping the lum berry as a slash, tennisace, simply because it's always been second to focus sash (since last gen), but i'll make sure to emphasize how much better focus sash is. I'm also keeping the cb set because it's pretty good at revenge killing and forcing switches and it just seems to work.

Ok, just add a line saying how the 4 ev/0 iv make Download get an attack boost but the only mon with download is Porygon and its never actually seen.

I disagree with getting rid of Protect on the CB set entirely, but the slash should be Sucker Punch / Protect since you are trying to Trick away your CB.

Fix up the OP for a stamp =)

 

[breh]

Ok then, you don't need to run Lonely or 4 SpD. A 0 IV in defense + Adamant suffices.

 

[athleteandy1]

I should rephase: 4 evs and a 0 iv really isn't hard at all for a wifier, RNG is stupidly easy to manipulate this generation. Having irc open, I could ask in #smogonwifi for a Shedinja exactly to the analysis specifications and have one within the day (if someone already doesn't have one ready). I know its irrelevant in 99.99% of situations, but Smogon is geared for simulator play and it should be prepared for the silliest of situations.



Ok, just add a line saying how the 4 ev/0 iv make Download get an attack boost but the only mon with download is Porygon and its never actually seen.

I disagree with getting rid of Protect on the CB set entirely, but the slash should be Sucker Punch / Protect since you are trying to Trick away your CB.

Fix up the OP for a stamp =)

Stamp please

 

[tennisace]

cool

 

[Rakan]

I'm gonna reject the CB Set for now but the other set looks fine

CB SET: QC REJECTED (1/3)

First set: QC APPROVED (2/3)

 

[breh]

again, you don't need lonely; a spread of 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant and a 0 Def IV will do what you want.

 

[Cherub Agent]

why shouldn't lum berry deserve a slash? you never know when some damn wall will WoW or Toxic you for the KO. Sure Focus Sash is superior, but Lum Berry deserves a mention for being the only other item Sheddy can run on the SD set

 

[jake]

why shouldn't lum berry deserve a slash? you never know when some damn wall will WoW or Toxic you for the KO. Sure Focus Sash is superior, but Lum Berry deserves a mention for being the only other item Sheddy can run on the SD set

Lum Berry is slashed, and apparently it already was when you posted so ?_?

again, you don't need lonely; a spread of 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant and a 0 Def IV will do what you want.

^ Fix that. aaaaand since Omi didn't approve the CB set does that make my QC 3/3 or 2/3 or fuck idek

QC APPROVED 3/3 for first set and 2/3 for CB I suppose

 

[Oglemi]

The Choice Band set is terrible. Even though you can Trick it, getting stuck into the wrong move is the last thing you want to do with Shedinja, especially considering you die to every entry hazard/light tap.

I'm rejecting that.

 

[athleteandy1]

So if two approve and two disapprove of the cb set, what do I do?