NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

[jumpluff]

oh oops lmao I only skimread the update and thought kok was a villager. Looks like he was mafia. That changes things! Scratch my last post re. kok.

I agree that zorbees is a decent possible lynch target. An axe is what I would expect from an executioner, not a stiletto dagger. If the real vigilante is out there, they should speak up... I don't think it's the sun (@Paperblade) because of the flavour but if the sun is a crazy axeman then please speak up. If it was a vigilante it obviously wasn't aska or SoulTorrent, so a villager either false claimed to hide that they had at least one kill remaining or we have to conclude it's the wolf. This would be a good time to speak up about that.

Honestly I'm agreeing with zorbees that it sucks wrt aska and SoulTorrent, but Walrein and Spiffy have already been trying to recruit people. It pretty much makes this game a joke now imho, but there's nothing you can do since Walrein won't cancel it (fyi Walrein I was like 95% joking every time I whined at you to cancel it).

Either way, I see no need to rush through this. We should go back and look at kok's posts, since he dropped so many scumtells people were all over him all through the game, so I'm sure he's left some other kind of hint. Thus, I am not placing my vote on zorbees. I don't like the idea of voting Ace Emerald hastily with the possibility of two killers being out there. I want to vote people we believe are scum, because each village death is mattering right now. The kok kill bought us some precious time, but let's think this through.

Hosts: Day 6 I could edit it in myself but eh I rather not be accused of tampering with the OP...

PS I still note that billymills has been a driving force behind most of the mislynches. Any accusation of such I have to apply to myself though. This is the kind of false negative that arises from us just being the driving force behind EVERYTHING the village does because most others don't lead discussion. Still, I'm suspicious. We can get into this now if you like billy or we can address kok and DLC first.

 

[billymills]

I have been the driving force behind all lynches including half-assed ones because all you guys do is agree with me.

 

[jumpluff]

This is the kind of false negative that arises from us just being the driving force behind EVERYTHING the village does because most others don't lead discussion

, and I have a bad habit of second-guessing everything I think / being passive so blame falls on me too.

It's why I'm not actually pursuing this in a major way, because we have better targets who contribute far less than you, but I just want everyone to keep it in mind that neither billy nor I are 100% clean.

ETA: these posts aren't making much sense are they

sorry everyone I am stressed/tired/busy/list of excuses

I just want people to think for themselves a bit more

 

[Pallas Athena]

I think we're missing the elephant in the room here:

Pokemonrock777. Didn't come back, and this couldn't support a claim that was very, very doubtful. I don't see why he couldn't have just left his vote on someone an let us shift it around so that his claim could be tested. Furthermore, when he left he made it seem like he needed to talk with someone about how to proceed, which would only be possible if he was mafia.

While he could just be horribly incompetent, I really want to see him lynched, but believe we need as much time as possible during the days for discussion, so I propose a Quagsires-esque lynch when deadline is approaching.

Or a really, really good explanation as to why he didn't vote.

 

[jumpluff]

I believe that two mafia and a wolf remain, unless an actual vigilante is out there, but I find that unlikely. Possibilities for the mafia in descending order: Ace Emerald -> Dummy007, Dummy007, SoulTorrent, zorbees, DetroitLolcat, Pokemonrocks777, Rediamond

Dummy is listed twice because I find it likelier Ace is scum and thus Dummy is as well than Dummy is scum and Ace is martyr. I find Rediamond the least likely legitimate possibility, because kok was trying to cast aspersions on lkk and him (#1287). It's not rock solid, especially as we've seen kok was willing to protect himself through the Quagsires lynch. But it is there. I am just ignoring askaninjask entirely. zorbees, DLC, and SoulTorrent are kinda interchangeable. I know I'm more willing to lynch somebody who is useless, but I also want to lynch correctly, so I'm not 100% sure about it.

Killing Acklow was just plain bizarre, one more in a chain of inexplicable kills, but I can actually explain this one other than 'maybe he was onto something', which doesn't really apply here since he mostly posted about suspecting B_T (let me know if I missed anything important). A safeguard is nothing to fear... unless they wanted his Magic Wand and thought billymills would be protected, so instead stole the item list and killed Acklow. It is also highly possible that Acklow was killed because Dummy007 (and Ace Emerald?) is (are) mafia, and the possibility of Acklow catching onto billy's plan and safeguarding one of them, thus disproving their lies, was too dangerous.

ETA: Engineer Pikachu, can you tell us everyone you've protected and when, please?

Anyways, the only weird accusation I made was DLC, so let's explain. He's an announcer who claimed Town Crier yesterday (for billy's benefit), right? WHY AM I ACCUSING HIM??? Here's why:

DetroitLolcat is chronically unhelpful. All he has done is coasted on his claim of announcer. He has DONE NOTHING to help us. I see that as either apathetic villager or scum behaviour. It is certainly anti-town. But he expressed a lot of enthusiasm before subbing in, and, while opinions can change, has made a cursory effort to appear interested, which is the same reason MK Ultra and kingofkong both look/ed far worse than Crux. Despite apparently being terribly busy with AP subjects, he has never tried to sub out, instead managing to get his nightly dose of lolcats in pretty regularly. A townie who didn't care would be more likely to sub out or be subbed out than a secretly active mafia who just doesn't post in the thread. (I don't think I ever tried to get DLC subbed out and I don't like 'not forcibly subbed out' logic because it's meta in an easily-backfiring way, esp. with the subs being so scarce atm, but seriously...) This suggests to me that he wants to slip under the radar, and we know he has no reason to do that if he is what he says to be. He's made fourteen posts since subbing in on February the 2nd in Australian time. His posts:

I promise this isn't a tl;dr, it's just a list of the posts and a one line summary of each

• #268, acknowledging being subbed in
• #417, making an excuse about being busy three days after subbing in (and four days after wanting to sub in), promising a post that night
• #517, four days after his promise to post, wanting to lynch Quagsires (which I am beginning to take as meaningless) and Staraptor Call
• #579, where he implies deadlines were the fault Staraptor Call didn't die (HINT: it was the fault of everyone like DLC who claimed to want to lynch him but never followed through -- same applies to Quagsires, whom DLC was so fond of lynching but never actually did) and places a vote on him
• #602, where he offers another inactivity excuse and backpedals a bit on Staraptor Call and casts suspicion on Quagsires and billymills
• #694, which is exactly the same as #602, except justified as it was in response to my post about how he wanted to sub in, promptly got his wish, and then proceeded to do nothing
• #768, an explanation for not announcing
• #866, where he defends zorbees (but his next 'well, I guess people are just placing pressure!' line could be interpreted as trying to cover his tracks), casts suspicion on me, mentions Quagsires again while still not voting for him, says billymills is likely town, and goes easier on Staraptor Call
• #1018, where he lampshades the lunar theme of his announcement in context of the Moon's death
• #1027, where he decides Ace Emerald is the town's suspect and blatantly, almost self-admittedly bandwagons him
• #1187, where he doesn't follow the claim procedure correctly, reiterates he's announcer, and notes a potential scumslip of pokemonrocks777 (I replied to this fairly mockingly iirc...)
• #1224, where he claims to have the Bell
• #1227, where he claims what the Bell does and Town Crier
• #1320, which I desperately wanted to infract (but the pics were cute ^_^)

No offence, DLC, but would you seriously call this good contribution? :/

I would have lynched him days ago, had he not claimed announcer. HE. REEKS. OF. SCUM. His claimed item is terrible -- I would've been more willing to buy the Bell being an announcement item, like Jigglypuff's microphone in Pokémon Mafia. He has placed two votes in the entire game: one on Staraptor Call and one on Ace Emerald, both extremely bandwagony. His only remotely redeeming quality is that he is announcer, which is usually a village-aligned role.

@@Lynch DetroitLolcat@@

Sorry for the long post, but billy, can you sum up your information on item movement? I can go back through your posts for you if need be, but I mostly want to know if it's possible that the Magic Wand and Bell are both village-aligned items. You said awhile ago that either the Bell or the Black Cloak (ETA: Sorry, called it the Black Wand by mistake) was a village-aligned item, but the Magic Wand didn't move off Acklow as far as we can tell, so is it possible the Magic Wand is instead that item or not?

 

[Ace Emerald]

This is a mobile post, so I apologize for lack of direct quoting, shortness, spelling mistakes, and whatnot. But I (think I) have some decent contributions to post.

Pokemonrocks777: really @.@? I don't think this guy is scum, just really stupid. He's posts are so stupid I am willing to bet if he was mafia, he post have some more concrete slip ups with it. Also lack of another mayor claim, though it could be hiding somewhere, helps him out. I guess all we can do is hope he votes smart/gets subbed :/

Zorbees: One of our stronger suspects right now imo. The chance of a mafia kill being blocked the first night, by hooker or BG, is really low with all of those people. The flavor mismatch is terrible. I really think we should keep our eye on him, and I'd support a lynch on him.

Now here's where I think my contribution is sorta valuable.

Wolf: I don't think it was a vig kill last night. No other claims vig, with the only two non claimers being very inactive, I think we have a wolf on our hands, presumably converted from sun. And I think this wolf is Jumpluff. Jumpluff claimed to have held out claiming because she thought her claim was generic and mafia would steal it. However, looking back at the OP, it clearly states that mafia have safe claims. While this is not definite proof, combine that with generic vanilla 'lord claim' and the multiple other nobility vanilla claims, including lkk's true one. Now let's look at jumpluffs more recent post where she says she doesn't think the wolf is the sun, but why else would the wolf suddenly start killing? Again, by itself not anything important, but with all that other evidence I just stated? This is a flexible vote, but I want to cast my vote @@vote jumpluff@@.

 

[jumpluff]

That actually never occurred to me lol or I would've said it outright like I offered to.

Last game I had a safe claim in or saw anyone else with: This Is How We Mafia. We got two ability claims between us (there were four on my faction). You'll also note that I believe DetroitLolcat is likely mafia, which suggests that I think mafia have at least one role false claim. This is also an extremely weak defence, but you can see in the j^2 lynch I began to back off once B_T mentioned his flavour, because I remembered I, too, had some that mentioned the King.

Now let's look at jumpluffs more recent post where she says she doesn't think the wolf is the sun, but why else would the wolf suddenly start killing?

Sorry, I thought that was self-explanatory. :/ I said I didn't think the wolf was the sun because of the flavour (axe in the throat, if it was the sun wouldn't it be 'burned to cinders' or something similar?). Not to mention that it seems one of aska and SoulTorrent are the sun, but that's circular logic because if the sun were the wolf it would be anyone but them.

Anyways, your theory is interesting, but about the only thing I can point to is my behaviour, which has been pretty consistent (if sometimes circumlocutious...), as a defence of myself. If I was converted from the sun, that was on Day 5v1, so you've had two day phases and the start of this day to observe my behaviour. Do you feel that it in any way indicates I could be wolf? (Hint: there's stuff there I could totally construe as me being scum or the wolf, so I will be very, very disappointed if you back down.)

Actually, like I said, I never considered the safe claim thing, so hmm... that lends credence to the Rediamond theory. You might remember a few days ago I commented that I arbitrarily thought three of us was more likely than two. With what you pointed out in mind, it is highly possible one of Rediamond and I are scum with our false claim.

PS: I see your point on 'why does the wolf suddenly have a kill'. The only explanation I can offer is this piece of conjecture: the moon had something to do with the werewolf. *shrug* Logic seems to point at it being the sun, but, seriously, an axe?

 

[Ace Emerald]

Well @ the whole sun thing, what I ment was if the wolf is another cause, why would it suddenly start killing now? Also, a twin bereaved at his/her twin's death could easily snap and become crazy, killing people with axes, which is what I think of the flavor. And for you being scummy 5v1 and v2, I plan to look over all of your posts with this new lense, but what I remember clearly is your bid for attention when you asked why people thought of you. I didn't think much of it at the time, but you could have been searching for people who thought you were scum and what their arguments were, to counter argue or just to see if you were on any legit suspect lists. I am going to be away for a few hours, but you can bet I'll read over all your posts day 5v1/2.

 

[jumpluff]

I don't want to reveal my second reason for that bid for attention yet, but the first reason was simply just wanting to get some reactions out of people. I'd barely been talked about all game, and I both wanted to see who would go with the flow and who would speak up. I felt that this information would both prompt people into using their heads and also potentially put out some read data that wouldn't otherwise exist, due to the possibility of my death / the fact nobody was really talking about me, ever, except j^2.

I also recommend checking out my relationship with Leethoof to support or refute your hypothesis. I've made a lot of posts and the search tool can be unreliable, so I'll sum it up for you: Leethoof never said anything about Kaxtar, and Kaxtar commented once that Leethoof was a constructive poster, should post more, etc. I talked about Leethoof in my very first post, #655, overall coming to the conclusion he was an inexperienced townie. Reiterated town read in #726, found voting him to be highly pointless. After that I barely commented on him, except to ask him questions and draw people's attention to him and Crux / other idlers. Leethoof's one mention of me was to thank me for one of my review posts. You can draw your own conclusions from all this suspiciousness or click the spoiler tag.

Hide

I arrived quickly at the conclusion he was newbie town, then stopped paying much attention to him as I found nothing much remarkable about him and was busy pursuing j-squared, etc. Meanwhile, Leethoof was inactive. Yep, it's that straightforward! I'm not the Sun, just like every single other person who was like 'k Leethoof behaved strangely but it wasn't scum-motivated' and largely dismissed the issue.

Also, I understand the flavour justification for a psycho twin -- it's a legitimate possibility. But I don't know what to think about this point, except like I already said, I think it's the wolf. There's not much else that I can say in my defence, nor that I care to, except that I tried my best to keep people on track throughout Day 5v2, despite being increasingly frustrated with the game. However, I was always behaving in that same talkative, proactive manner. You'll see some interesting things if you analyse my Day 5v2 behaviour, since I began to act in a slightly erratic manner, but overall I've adhered to the same pro-discussion townie strategy. But, of course, I'm the wolf you'll need to prove that my behaviour was in some way fundamentally different, because naturally I would continue to act the same way I had always. Arguably, even more cautiously, since I would be on my own with no information and concerned about drawing attention to any different behaviour.

Interested in hearing others' thoughts, though.

 

[zorbees]

I honestly don't care about this game anymore, I can see how I am suspicious with that second kill, and my shaky claim. I do want this game to end but it is becoming somewhat of a joke to me with the 2 inactive users. My main suspects would probably be SoulTorrent, DetroitLolCat, Rediamond, and then maybe askaninjask and jumpluff. Jumpluff I only worry about because of the reasons AE mentioned, her delayed claim was a bit suspicious, I don't really see the benefit in delaying her claim. There is a tiny chance for it to find a mafia that way, but I'd think the mafia would be careful with their claims and not claim something as generic as Lord, especially if they have safeclaims. I also am starting to worry about the amount of vanillas in the game. 5 have already died, and there seem to be plenty of power roles in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if another of the current vanilla claims is scum. Askaninjask suspicions come from the fact that he disappears mysteriously at a crucial time. He obviously could have some IRL issue but the fact that it was unannounced combined with the fact that askaninjask is usually very active irks me a bit. I am inclined to believe Ace Emerald and Dummy but they also could be scum. The problem with that is I can see many scenarios being true. Ace-town and Dummy-town is very possible, as is Ace-scum and Dummy-scum. Ace-town and Dummy-scum could also happen, assuming Dummy doesn't have any role that would give Ace real results. Ace-scum and Dummy-town seems unlikely, as scum usually don't have a martyr, but any of the other three could be possible. I'm cautious to lynch either of them because of their claimed power roles, and the fact that other scummy users exist. Lastly, it'd be nice if pokemonrocks777 could prove his claim today.

 

[jumpluff]

I don't care about aska because he ditched NPL. Nobody would ditch a game they created to win a NOC mafia. If he ditched NOC, it was because NPL was pissing him off too, or because he's busy.

Also if mafia had safe claims then why did I delay my claim? The only conclusion from that you can draw is that I'm wolf or was being sincere about my intentions. FYI if nobody would falseclaim anything as generic as Lord then neither would I. I also could've claimed the Sun, especially if the flavour is 'kill with an axe'. Furthermore, I did not delay my claim, zorbees! I was the second person to claim (because billymills designated me as such), and I claimed nobility before anyone else did, while stating I would hold my name back. If I knew there was other nobility in the game then I would know their rolenames and thus be able to claim Lord outright.

Lastly, it'd be nice if pokemonrocks777 could prove his claim today.

This means risking NL, though I'm still interested in it.

So, if you don't want to lynch Ace or Dummy, who do you want to lynch? Me, DLC, or SoulTorrent?

Also, dw, I hear you on the apathy. I don't want billymills to infract me so I'm trying to win here ;_; And you fuckers are ensuring I'll survive now, THANKS A LOT.

ETA: #1137, emphasis added:

I have no ability. I am the brother of the person who used to own the turtle that belonged to one of the King's distant descendants, which apparently qualifies me to be part of his family.

 

[jumpluff]

Flamestrike and Mithril, I always see you guys lurking the thread. PLEASE sub in?

 

[billymills]

The bell or the black cloak are village items, seeing as no one has stepped up with the cloak (there is an off chance soul torrent or aska has it) I have no choice but to believe DLC is village.

That said I'm really liking the jumpiness of the past two days. Rediamond's rushed attack on pokemonrocks, jumpluff's rushed attack on DLC. I'd still rather we did an ace emerald lynch, but I also agree that PR777 should prove his role.

The only reason I am iffy on him proving his role is I'm not sure he's stable enough to keep his vote on a target for the duration of the lynch. I don't really fear a no lynch at this point because I have doubts we would actually get everyone in position to lynch anyway.


Also: with respect to jumpluff's claim. LKK's pm implies there are other nobility in the game, which he foolishly did not tell us. Kok's claim was in fact the priest, not a noble man, and he turned up being the problem.

 

[jumpluff]

Would this be a good time to mention I didn't read lkk's actual PM?

jumpluff's rushed attack on DLC.

I've been bitching at DLC for in-game days. I decided to go through every user and have an opinion on them, so after I'd re-evaluated everyone I decided to bring a user I felt was slipping under the radar to everyone's attention. Everything I said was true, though mostly because nobody can argue that DLC has been useful and that was the crux of my argument (heh). I also stated that my suspicion was semiconditional on the item. If the Magic Wand cannot be the village item that hasn't moved, then I have to conclude DLC is a useless townie or you're lying*. But he still reeks of scum, js.

@@Unvote@@, I guess...............................

Though I kinda wanna lynch DLC to stop him from posting lolcats.

*Or third option, aska or SoulTorrent have the Black Cloak...

 

[pokemonrocks777]

hi sorry i'm back was at states for TCG anyways one of my results i'm clean according to the Inspector
and also as for my role I'm telling the truth what more can you ask for? like do i need to Spell it out for you. i will

Please
Read
Inb4
keviN
Charming
diEs

@@VOTE JUMPLUFF@@

 

[jumpluff]

I'm actually speechless.

 

[pokemonrocks777]

I'm actually speechless.

Kinda have to or i will be Godkilled

 

[zorbees]

Pr777 can you try speaking english please?

EDIT: to clarify, i was talking regarding your result.

 

[Ace Emerald]

Also if mafia had safe claims then why did I delay my claim? The only conclusion from that you can draw is that I'm wolf or was being sincere about my intentions. FYI if nobody would falseclaim anything as generic as Lord then neither would I. I also could've claimed the Sun, especially if the flavour is 'kill with an axe'.

Honestly, the idea of the sun being a wolf after the moon's death is not hard to guess, I think you realized that and didn't claim the sun because of that.

But, of course, I'm the wolf you'll need to prove that my behaviour was in some way fundamentally different, because naturally I would continue to act the same way I had always. Arguably, even more cautiously, since I would be on my own with no information and concerned about drawing attention to any different behaviour.

Thank you for saving me the trouble of looking up your actions with leethoof, but I don't think you'd show too much interest in the thread for your twin, aside from trying to move the lynch away from him as softly (for lack of a better word) as you could. You wouldn't want villagers to think that you had a buddy, which would make you seem scummy, and you wouldn't want mafia to pick up on you and your twin, if they targeted you it could be disastrous. Though that argument is a pretty weak, why would you purposely link yourself to anyone. As for behavioral differences, you are a great mafia player, you wouldn't change anything about your behavior, so no one would be tipped off (I don't know if thats what the quote said, it kinda confused me). You could utilize your night kill and hide from suspicion behind your extensive and continued village contributions. In a sort of related note, many times when you post, (#1251, #1255, part of#1332, #1334) you encourage discussion of yourself as scum, which really gives the feeling that you are village. Now I'm not using this as evidence against you as the logical answer to this is that you are village, but I am saying you are good enough to use that tone and style to seem village.
I've also been thinking about the lack of other candidates for sun. The current player list:
askaninjask: been away, I doubt he's the sun.
billymills: has a decent claim that has been alluded to before the moon's death.
Ace Emerald: my POV
Crux: Though b_t's cleaning took place before the moon's death, he has a solid high nobility claim.
Engineer Pikachu: has a decent claim before the moon's death
Pokemonrocks777: see my reason I don't think hes scum
jumpluff: suspect for my reasons
DetroitLolcat: has a decent claim before the moon's death
SoulTorrent: been away
Paperblade: kind of clean in general, one of the villages only power roles
Rediamond: possible suspect
Dummy007: from my POV, hes very clean as scum would have said their alliance check went through without my interference
zorbees: possible suspect
Obviously this is my bais, but from my POV jumpluff, Rediamond, or zorbees seem to be the most likely candidates for sun.

As I said, this vote is flexible, especially in the new light of a procks persuade (??? That is what it is right?), but I'm going to keep it for now. I'd also like to know what people other than billymills and zorbees think of this.

 

[jumpluff]

oh pr777 is persuaded lol

why didn't you mention that

Well, I am obviously now opposed to using this lynch for pr777 to prove his ability...

ETA: Basically, Ace won't ever trust me because I'm good enough to be a vanilla and get others to :( My feelings are hurt. Or should I be flattered? IDK I'm too tired to carefully read that post, but I don't see how I can possibly be expected to defend myself from 'you're good enough to know how you come across and manipulate that', which, and I'm sorry to be immodest :x, you and I both know.

 

[billymills]

I like the fact Ace Emerald is looking towards village roles for the location of the wolf. I think it's very possible that the moon's death triggered something within one of the mafia, or at the very least the holder of the mask.

A number of people in Majora's Mask go crazy when they receive the mask. If I were mafia I'd be extremely suspicious of my teammates especially if the mafia had at least 6 roles to begin with. Divisions within the mafia faction would not be new in smogon noc mafia.

In other news vote ace emerald

 

[Ace Emerald]

I like the fact Ace Emerald is looking towards village roles for the location of the wolf. I think it's very possible that the moon's death triggered something within one of the mafia, or at the very least the holder of the mask.

A number of people in Majora's Mask go crazy when they receive the mask. If I were mafia I'd be extremely suspicious of my teammates especially if the mafia had at least 6 roles to begin with. Divisions within the mafia faction would not be new in smogon noc mafia.

In other news vote ace emerald

Billy has started trolling, what has this come to @.@

 

[billymills]

My apologies, I did not mean to troll:

@@vote Ace Emerald@@

is that better?

 

[Lrr]

I would be fine with either testing PR or lynching AE

 

[zorbees]

can pr777 please indicate what he means when he says his results says the inspector cleaned him?

@AE: If dummy was mafia, why would he, knowing you are a martyr and targeting him, say he wasn't redirected to you? That'd wreak of scum.

Additionally, what is everyone's opinion on lynching Rediamond? I would be for it, probably likelier than anyone else, because of his vanilla claim, general unhelpfulness, and imo lack of better targets. I still think there is a possible mafia hiding within the vanilla claims, and jumpluff is a bit more clean than Rediamond. I do count DLC as vanilla, since announcer has no impact on the game and could very well be mafia, but I think Rediamond is a bit more scummy.