Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[verbatim]

It's somewhat disappointing that this got 4 pages long before someone mentioned that marowak gets priority stab earthquake (when using prankster nature power) coming off 568 attack without life orb recoil or being locked with a choice item.

Slaking won't kill with Extreme Speed, but if you're opponent packs Fake out you're in trouble. There's also the issue of you dealing a measly 40.47 - 47.81% to Slaking in retaliation. Heck even Hi Jump Kick does 70.23 - 82.93%. In a metagame where the revenge killers have attack stats over 1000, Marowak needs to be careful. That being said you could turn Marowak into an amazing Baton Pass counter with some combination of Magic Coat/Nature Power/Taunt/Heart Swap/Copycat/Whirlwind.

 

[Imanalt]

Did you add Pure Power ability to the mix and how were you able to come up with a 140 base power Fire pokemon? I just did the calc w/o pure power and came up with about the same answer. Also weird I just did the calc again with pure power and it said it was a OHKO on 252/252 giratina. O_o

oh yep i missed pure power, so double mine xD

 

[AasTmO]

I've liked Simple Cosmic/Stored Power Lugia a lot, too.. with 2 fillers (Recover, Baton Pass) you can set something up hugely, or do huge damage yourself.

 

[Imanalt]

I've liked Simple Cosmic/Stored Power Lugia a lot, too.. with 2 fillers (Recover, Baton Pass) you can set something up hugely, or do huge damage yourself.

youre gonna be better off with magic bounce, as random spores/whirlwinds will screw you up while you set up...

 

[Arcticblast]

Stored Power is the very reason I'm using a Tyranitar now. With Unaware, it has decent bulk (in Sand) and counters setup Pokemon nicely.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Impish Nature
- Crunch
- Recover
- Heart Swap
- Magic Coat

General utility moves, mostly. Crunch for a nice attack, Recover for healing, Lum/Coat for status troubles (and reflecting hazards) and Heart Swap to steal the boosts that the opponent isn't really enjoying anymore. (This used to be lolSpiritomb)

I also put Draco Meteor on my MB Giratina. You can really only hit one thing hard, but 210 BP after STAB will hurt pretty much anything. Registeel and Ferrothorn are still somewhat rare in Hackmons, so the only common Steel-type (Dialga) is still hit hard.

 

[Zarel]

It's somewhat disappointing that this got 4 pages long before someone mentioned that marowak gets priority stab earthquake (when using prankster nature power) coming off 568 attack without life orb recoil or being locked with a choice item.

I tried one for like two battles, back when Hackmons first started, and Balanced Hackmons hadn't been invented yet.

It gets outsped by Slaking/Regigigas's ESpeed, and outsped by nearly all Prankster users, and its Earthquake isn't strong enough to do significant damage to most common BH mons. I don't really see the point.

Prankster Groudon's Nature Power is only a bit weaker, but otherwise outclasses it, with actual bulk to speak of, not to mention a free item slot.

 

[M BLADE]

Aerodactyl @ whatever
Trait: Pure Power
Jolly Nature

-Spore
-Belly Drum / Shell Break
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake/Extremespeed

Well, you're fast enough, resists Extremespeed and it's immune to Prankster Nature Power, so maybe this could be useful.

Another one just for fun:

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
Bold Nature

-Quiver Dance
-Stored Power
-Bug Buzz/Aura Sphere/ Cotton Guard
-Recover

Cresselia is weak, but lack of power doesn't matter when using Stored Power (after only 2 Quiver Dances, Stored Power is as powerful as Psycho Boost). Use Cotton Guard if you're sure enough there's no dark poke around...

 

[SuperHydreigon1996]

Honestly, we need some actual OU/UU, etc tiers for Hackmons. I know Hackmonz is unbalanced like the actual Ubers, but that exact unbalance makes a few of the Pokemons unviable in Hackmonz despite being able to learn every move. Any thoughts?

On the other hand, this still looks like a very fun tier. I might play this in a few moments.

 

[NTT]

Honestly, we need some actual OU/UU, etc tiers for Hackmons. I know Hackmonz is unbalanced like the actual Ubers, but that exact unbalance makes a few of the Pokemons unviable in Hackmonz despite being able to learn every move. Any thoughts?

On the other hand, this still looks like a very fun tier. I might play this in a few moments.

I'd love to see this get looked into further. Even in a meta this unpredictable and new, we're already starting to see a distinct set of pokemon that things are getting centralised around. Would be great to see what people could come up with without having the major threats breathing down their necks.

 

[Imanalt]

I dont see how making tier lists of pokes woudl do anythign, as lower tiers woudl use same sets on differentpokes.

 

[DDRMaster]

I dont see how making tier lists of pokes woudl do anythign, as lower tiers woudl use same sets on differentpokes.

Well it's the same thing in regular Singles. Before Deoxys-S was banned, it was the main hazard lead in OU. Deoxys-D was its replacement in UU, Uxie in RU, and Mesprit in NU. They're all Psychic-types that can use Stealth Rock, Reflect, Light Screen, and a move to prevent the opponent from setting up.

 

[DTC]

I appreciate all the enthusiasm, but let's not get too ahead of ourselves; we don't need a UU/RU/NU/etc for every single side-tier... it'd just split the playerbase up and we don't even have usage stats on PS! (yet).

Anyways, I've been seeing a lot of Heart Swap Pokemon lately. I'm a bit weary about using set-up sweepers that aren't Slaking/Regigias right now because of all of that. Imposter Blissey is also annoying for set-up sweepers.

Has anyone here created a successful (more than just a few matches) rain/sun team that'd be willing to share it? I think weather should be explored more, and I'm interested to see what Pokemon can actually abuse it well.

 

[Imanalt]

well i ran rain out of necessity on my stall team cause sand teams were killing my sturdinja, but i havent seen a team dedicated to rain fully thats been successful, ill probably take a stab at building one today

 

[phoopes]

I played Hackmons a bunch before, but I've pretty much retired from the tier after getting bored with it. However, one thing that I would like to say that helped me go 106-8-1 was Prankster Gastro Acid. I had that on Deoxys-S and it could absolutely ruin an opponent's strategy. Sturdy Shedinja is no more. Pure Power on anything is gone. So is Speed Boost. However, it's been a while since I've played, so I forget if Gastro Acid is reflectable or not. If it is, then you have to watch out for Magic Bounce, since a large percentage of Pokemon in the tier have that as their ability, and you could become a victim of your own strategy.

So that's my two cents on the tier for now.

 

[Imanalt]

Just to clarify, gastro acid shoudl be reflected by magic bounce, but i dont believe it currently is programmed to

 

[Arcticblast]

Actually, the other day I had Gastro Acid reflect back to me (I was using ImposterBliss at the time) so I believe it's implemented.

 

[verbatim]

Honestly, we need some actual OU/UU, etc tiers for Hackmons. I know Hackmonz is unbalanced like the actual Ubers, but that exact unbalance makes a few of the Pokemons unviable in Hackmonz despite being able to learn every move. Any thoughts?

On the other hand, this still looks like a very fun tier. I might play this in a few moments.

As cool as it would sound, tiers aren't going to be the most effective thing for Hackmons right now. We just don't have the player base to have a bunch of effective tiers as is (try finding a RU match on PS). One thing we COULD do is consider adding/removing bans to Balanced Hackmons while leaving Pure Hackmons pure, but we'd need to set up procedures governing the changes to the banlist. That being said, please leave the conversation concerning how we would set up banlists OUT OF THIS THREAD. If you have an idea, the best way to find myself and more importantly Aesoft (the person who would actually be able to implement such policies) would be at #showdown on synirc. #Showdown is also a good place to hang out if your a fan of Balanced Hackmons because of the high concentration of Hackmon players already there.


That being said, on to business.

Aerodactyl @ whatever
Trait: Pure Power
Jolly Nature

-Spore
-Belly Drum / Shell Break
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake/Extremespeed

This will handle Slaking if you run Life Orb or an adamant nature and get to +6 before he switches in, but it will get you outright massacred if you're opponent grabs it with a Blissey. Furthermore, finding time to set up a +6 seems a bit daunting as Giratina will just Spore you (if you opt to run Lum/Adamant Giratina will watch you Belly Drum and priority Spore you again. You could run Shadow Sneak, but you would not be coming anywhere near close to killing Giratina, even at +6).

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
Bold Nature

-Quiver Dance
-Stored Power
-Bug Buzz/Aura Sphere/ Cotton Guard
-Recover

Cresselia is weak, but lack of power doesn't matter when using Stored Power (after only 2 Quiver Dances, Stored Power is as powerful as Psycho Boost). Use Cotton Guard if you're sure enough there's no dark poke around...

Lugia does this slightly better. You may also wish to swap out Magic Guard for Magic Bounce.

 

[jamashawalker]

has anyone had any fun with illusion? Ive had some success with it running illusion on a couple pokes and shedinja as the "illusion". Slaking + Illusion I would probably say more dangerous than pure power. It gives slaking an opportunity to set up Belly Drum and (if not attacked) cant be copied by blissey

 

[Byrn Dragonstone]

Unaware Shuckle is mean. So is Registeel.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I've used Trick Scarfing for some success. Most Pokemon in the tier hate, HATE being stuck on one move and have their item taken away.

Anyone else tried this for some success?

 

[M BLADE]

Escavalier @ Leftovers/ Metronome
Trait: Flash Fire/ Magic Bounce
Nature: choose one

-Cosmic Power
-Recover
-Minimize
-Fury Cutter

lol

Delibird @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
Adamant nature
-Ice Ball
-Defense Curl
-Minimize
-Howl

You'll be defeated by a howling Delibird and there's nothing you can do about it!!! muahahahaha

now, a slightly serious one:

Arceus @ Lum Berry/ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
Timid nature
-Mind Reader
-Sheer Cold
-Substitute
-Minimize

Yes, i like Minimize

 

[Groudon ex]

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere

Giratina has many advantages over other Quiver Dance sweepers in the metagame. It's primary advantage is an immunity to Extremespeed, which makes revenge killing much more difficult. It also has fantastic bulk, which allows it to easily get a Sub up and start boosting with QD; this is why I have been using Giratina over Gengar or Chandelure, whom have superior offensive stats. Giratina still possesses a very respectable Base 100 Sp. Attack, which can reach frightening levels after a few QDs. This set can be very difficult to deal with as many things are unable to break its subs without a boost. Magic Bounce blocks Spore and Whirlwind. With the exception of Mold Breaker Spore, this is essentially immune to status, so I'm running Leftovers for useful longetivity. Obviously Shedinja and Heart Swap users are a problem, but those are threats that every team using a setup sweeper has to work around.

 

[Stallion]

Okay so slightly off topic, but I just got two losses in balanced hackmons when I was ranked FIRST on the ladder due to forefits on my part where I forefited in A DIFFERENT BATTLE TO THAT ONE, both were matches I was about to win. I know it's still getting kinks sorted out but I'm quite unhappy about that lets be honest because I'm a competitive bastard haha.....aside from that I'm really digging this new metagame and this beta server. So many creative sets :). It'd be fun to have implemented on PO tbh.

 

[AasTmO]

#1: Don't forfeit ;D
and @ Mblade: OHKO moves are illegal.
Having that said, knowing how Moody Pokémon were capable of sweeping Uber teams, where is this set?
Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
Nature: *cue defensive nature here*
- Substitute
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Magic Coat/Quiver Dance/Cosmic Power

Of course, can be executed by any defensive pokemon. Set up, get a sub, BP to Magic Coat mon (or suction cups for da trolls), proceed to sweep with humongous stats. Take 5 of these for increased chance of success.

EDIT: Take 5 of these, and to be specific, Deo-S as lead, along with Blissey, Registeel, Giratina, and Arceus. Baton Pass to something like a Slaking, or an Infernape, or whatever you feel like, just make sure it has Magic Bounce as ability and Baton Pass along the moves. Make sure you have SR in there somewhere as well, as Sheddy is an arse. Enjoy being Moody.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Gonna share my list of Things To Test Sometime to see if anyone has any thoughts / experience.

• Prankster Encore
• Moody
• Full Baton Pass
• Breaking Species Clause
• Illusion
• Rain