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Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th
- Thread starter Firestorm
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fissure was a TM in generation 2 and machamp could learn it, i don't want to see that shit happening.
Oh god, a No Guard Fissure coming from a Machamp.. OHKO moves are banned from comp play for a reason. ._.
Ice sucks because its resistant to the following range of types:
Ice.
:S
I wish theyd do something radical someday and slightly balanced the type chart.
Imagine if Ice was resistant to Ground and Dragon. It wouldnt hurt those top offensive types too much and Ice would actually be able to come in on something. Rock would need to become crap against another type too then, otehrwise its the best offensively etc..
Im obviously not talking about BW2, but in general. Like gen 6 perhaps.
Why do people always complain about Stealth Rock exactly? Just run a freaking Rapid Spinner already, there are enough of those out there and some are good in OU without the move.
And the only TM/tutor moves I think they'll bring back are the elemental punches. Think about it - they were TMs in GSC, and tutor moves ever since.
And the only TM/tutor moves I think they'll bring back are the elemental punches. Think about it - they were TMs in GSC, and tutor moves ever since.
They haven't added TM's because previously you could trade them, thus bypassing compatibility. This gen is different because you can't trade TM's.
Also, people need to stop complaining about Stealth Rock. Without it, Volcarona and Dragonite, among others, would be hell to fight compared to the Pokemon most of you want to be "good" (even though shit like Charizard still isn't as good as Infernape, Volcarona, etc).
Yeah, no. That's a bad idea. Most Fighting-type checks are hit SE by either Rock or Ice. Lucario in particular would be problematic because things like Gliscor and Salamence would no longer be able to check it, even if it runs Crunch over Ice Punch, and it would be able to take out more fast Pokemon, such as Latias, due to the extra residual damage. Dusclops and Jellicent wouldn't mind the hazards too much, but they still don't like taking a boosted Shadow Ball or Crunch.
Not getting into the SR is bad or good discussion, but why are people stating that if it wasn't for SR Dnite and Volcarona would be broken as a reason to show that it is good for the meta?
Well guess what if they were broken we would ban them... So problem solved. And maybe some pokes that were less used because of SR would see more usage. So why are you talking only about the things that would be broken without it? Why are you looking only at one side of the coin?
Why does it matter that some Pokemon are used less? Some Pokemon are used less for a variety of reasons, not just Stealth Rock. If the Pokemon who are adversely affected by Stealth Rock are so good, then people would simply use Rapid Spinners to get rid of rocks... like they do with Dragonite / Volcarona. But they aren't very good, even without rocks, which is why people opt for other Pokemon. This isn't about what's bannable and what's not, it's about Pokemon who are viable in OU. Articuno, Charizard, stuff like that isn't top-tier anyway.
This logic that these Pokemon would be used more bothers me. Obviously putting a Pokemon in a situation where it has a better chance to compete will result in its usage increasing, but there are still better Pokemon already in use that perform their roles whether Stealth Rock is present or not.
You are losing the point. You said before that SR is good because it keeps in check threats such as Rona and Dnite.
And i asked you how is this a reason to prove that SR is good for the meta.
Excadrill checked a multitude of threats such as Thundurus, Deoxys-S, Jolteon, Infernape, Terakion and more, but was deemed unhealthy for the meta and so it was banned. Every single poke that was banned brought some pros to the table of the OU meta, but they were all banned because their cons (they were broken) out weighted their pros (checking stuff).
So saying that SR is good because it checks some threats alone, is meaningless, if you don't make a mention to his cons also. Every single aspect in the pokemon game brings pros to the table, but to see if they are good in general we have to measure these goods in comparison with the negatives.
Stealth Rock is good because it punishes switching. Punishing switching is important because it ensures the game will progress as Pokemon slowly get worn down to the point where a cleaner can come in and end it. Spikes were clearly insufficient in punishing switching, as seen by the sudden change in the metagame from Gen 2-3 to 4. Stealth Rock provided the necessary punishment that allowed for the significantly more dynamic game we see today.
In addition to this, Stealth Rock is necessary for MANY kills. How many times have you seen calculations that end in "guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock", especially in regards to revenge kills? Without Stealth Rock, it would be MUCH more difficult to deal with many of the metagame's threats, and I'm afraid that Charizard in OU would not alleviate that.
Stealth Rock, all in all, allows for a more interactive game that does not simply rely on seeing who can get a sweeper set up first, but in fact rewards people for careful, calculated long-term decision-making. What Stealth Rock does is allow good players to compound their advantage over time, as the damage from Stealth Rock slowly adds up. Sometimes they can even land a Spin, and then increase their advantage even more that way. It is a tool that improves the metagame by stopping games from getting locked in standstills. It rewards teams not in simple, automatic terms, like how setting up rain helps a team with a lot of Swift Swimmers, but rather by how much those teams choose to take advantage of it. It can reward stall teams, heavy offense teams, and pretty much everything in between (barring some niches like Baton Pass) depending on how it is used. It is a move that allows for more interesting games, and allows for more skill on the part of the player.
I'm not going to talk about SR's typing. That's really a can of worms that does not deserve to be opened.
At the very least it would be nice to have a Rapid Spin move tutor. Hazards of all kinds are everywhere and meanwhile you've got like under a dozen spinners
Why does Delibird have Rapid Spin anyway?!
Lol that's exactly where I wanted to start talking about..
Anyways, I agree with what you say, when you talk about what Stealth Rock brings in the metagame, especially strategically. BUT, and this is where you didn't want to talk about >:) , I personally think that the biggest problem about SR is not it's introduction, how many pokemon can learn it, how it should be removed from the field or anything else, but it's typing.
Because let's face it, if SR was exactly what it is now but it 'wouldn't have a type' (practically Spikes but more powerful, why not?) many Pokemon would have a shot in higher tiers/see more usage. Pokemon wouldn't be judged by their typing, but by what they can do. A neutral-typed SR (if it's possible) taking a strong chunk of health (say, 20-30%) would serve as a anti-switch for any poke, which would add nearly as much strategy and strategic approach like the current SR. Seems fair and possible to me.
Not that this discussion has a point, but still, I wanted to point that out.
Excadrill was banned for a multitude of reasons, similar to Garchomp. It simply centralized the game around sand, while also being able to get past teams that even had the best checks for it. Stealth Rock is not in a similar position. It is a common battle condition, but it does not break open the game against teams that are prepared for it.
Yes, there are cons to Stealth Rock, but that does not matter. One of the prevailing philosophies is to ban as little as possible so that the metagame can evolve without complete interference. If we banned Stealth Rock, there would be debates of more than just Volcarona and Dragonite receiving the banhammer. You don't ban a move and as a result have to ban X number of Pokemon as well merely for the metagame to suit you. There are ways around Stealth Rock, ways to get rid of it (Foresight Hitmontop is basically automatic), and ways to force your opponent to go on the offensive rather than take the turn to set it up.
As far as moves I want to become Move Tutor moves/new TMs in B2W2, they fall into three categories.
Category 1: Moves that aren't particularly useful, I just want them available as TMs/MTs because I like the moves and/or nostalgia purposes, as they are from Generation I.
Mega Punch
Mega Kick
Pay Day
Category 2: Moves that would be very, very, very useful on certain Pokémon, competitively.
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Double-Edge
ThunderPunch
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Weather Ball
Heat Wave
Close Combat
Category 3: Moves that completely suck and would be available purely for the lulz:
Splash
String Shot
Category 1: Moves that aren't particularly useful, I just want them available as TMs/MTs because I like the moves and/or nostalgia purposes, as they are from Generation I.
Mega Punch
Mega Kick
Pay Day
Category 2: Moves that would be very, very, very useful on certain Pokémon, competitively.
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Double-Edge
ThunderPunch
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Weather Ball
Heat Wave
Close Combat
Category 3: Moves that completely suck and would be available purely for the lulz:
Splash
String Shot
Okay so this SR discussion is fun and all, but lets talk about these fun little rumours from PokeJungle:
http://pokejungle.net/2012/04/06/rumor-black-2-white-2-details/
Probably, very likely, more than anything, these are fake. (But I would love for that new Ghost-type to be real). I don't really expect GameFreak to go out of there way to create a whole new region on top of a small set of auxiliary GenV Pokemon... I'd like to see an expansion of the Unova region, but a completely new set of towns and all is a reach.
So what are people expecting from CoroCoro and Pokemon Smash in a few days? What would you like to see (within reason!)? Do you predict that BW2 will be a massive departure from BW ala a real sequel, or it's just clever marketing on GameFreaks part and we're just getting 2 versions of our GenV Yellow/Emerald/Platinum?
http://pokejungle.net/2012/04/06/rumor-black-2-white-2-details/
Probably, very likely, more than anything, these are fake. (But I would love for that new Ghost-type to be real). I don't really expect GameFreak to go out of there way to create a whole new region on top of a small set of auxiliary GenV Pokemon... I'd like to see an expansion of the Unova region, but a completely new set of towns and all is a reach.
So what are people expecting from CoroCoro and Pokemon Smash in a few days? What would you like to see (within reason!)? Do you predict that BW2 will be a massive departure from BW ala a real sequel, or it's just clever marketing on GameFreaks part and we're just getting 2 versions of our GenV Yellow/Emerald/Platinum?
Those rumors are, quite frankly, insane.
I expect to see footage of our new protagonists, male and female. Perhaps we'll also see some new seasonal changes, new areas, and a few new gym layouts. Outside of that, I'm not sure we'll find out any plot info until further down the road.
Indeed. I have to say, I am impressed at whoever made these up. If these were rumours for a new generation, I would probably find it believable.
I'm thinking we're gonna to get a video montage of some redone areas maybe? I'm expecting a preview of some cosmetic changes, and probably a feature on Kyurem. Also new Hilbert/Hilda artwork.
Here's a new post from Serebii:
So basically, we get our 10 second pointless video (maybe even a real trailer?), and some ingame footage of Kyurem and some kinda info on Meloetta.
I'm going to assume CoroCoro is gonna have this, plus a little bit more.
New generation, maybe. Them adding all these new Pokémon for the same generation, unlikely. But hey, who knows.
Heatmor. Pre-evo. This alone makes me believe these rumours are real. That's clearly something Game Freak would do.
That said, the rumours do make sense if the games are sequels, but... I'd rather believe they're third versions and be content with a possible Rapid Spin tutor.
EDIT-- OH JESUS LORD THERE'S A DRAGON/FIGHTING BRUCE LEE POKÉMON, I DON'T WANT TO BAYLEEF ANYMORE
Nothing about that should be believable to anyone.
Look at all that information. Look at how it ~just so happens~ to fall in line with the OMG NEW REGION/LEADERS/POKEMON expectations, following Pokemon, OH MAN A KNIGHT POKEMON, etc
And just how much there is and how detailed it is (take a drink every time he says "classy" or some variant on it)
Meanwhile grass owl with plant on top
Look at all that information. Look at how it ~just so happens~ to fall in line with the OMG NEW REGION/LEADERS/POKEMON expectations, following Pokemon, OH MAN A KNIGHT POKEMON, etc
And just how much there is and how detailed it is (take a drink every time he says "classy" or some variant on it)
Meanwhile grass owl with plant on top
Hey look I only noticed now it's a Cottonee disguised as an ugly-ass bitch
Nothing about that should be believable to anyone.
Look at all that information. Look at how it ~just so happens~ to fall in line with the OMG NEW REGION/LEADERS/POKEMON expectations, following Pokemon, OH MAN A KNIGHT POKEMON, etc
And just how much there is and how detailed it is (take a drink every time he says "classy" or some variant on it)
Meanwhile grass owl with plant on top
That is the ugliest design I've ever seen. I'm glad it was just fake/didn't make the cut.
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