You really did yourself a disservice there.
I've tried physically defensive roserade, and I think it's pretty good. It's special bulk is already naturally high so the investment in defense doesn't really hurt its ability to give rain a hard time.
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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
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I've tried physically defensive roserade, and I think it's pretty good. It's special bulk is already naturally high so the investment in defense doesn't really hurt its ability to give rain a hard time.
Pwnmon's Roserade looks good. Never underestimate Rest+Natural Cure. Its screwed me before...
Anyways, here's my contribution.
Yanmega @ Leftovers
Speed Boost
Modest
248 HP, 252 Sp. Attack, 8 Defence
Roost
Air Slash
Bug Buzz
HP Ground
This set is a bit of a niche, tbh, but it works. Yanmega isn't used often because of its Rock weakness, but this set finds a way around it with Roost. The idea is to switch in on a resisted attack, which is easy enough, seeing as Bug/Flying packs a number of helpful resists. From there, spamming whatever attack fits best for the situation is the plan, while Roosting whenever neccesary. Yanmega has startlingly good physical bulk, and its special attack serves it well, so it can be used as a good special sweeper, and cleans up weakened teams easily. The EVs give Yanmega as much HP as possible, while allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock twice. The others go into Sp. Attack, for obvious reasons, and 8 go to Defence for a bit more bulk.
Alternatively, you could give it Tinted Lens, which turns Yanmega into more of a bulky holepuncher than a sweeper or clean up.
Anyways, here's my contribution.
Yanmega @ Leftovers
Speed Boost
Modest
248 HP, 252 Sp. Attack, 8 Defence
Roost
Air Slash
Bug Buzz
HP Ground
This set is a bit of a niche, tbh, but it works. Yanmega isn't used often because of its Rock weakness, but this set finds a way around it with Roost. The idea is to switch in on a resisted attack, which is easy enough, seeing as Bug/Flying packs a number of helpful resists. From there, spamming whatever attack fits best for the situation is the plan, while Roosting whenever neccesary. Yanmega has startlingly good physical bulk, and its special attack serves it well, so it can be used as a good special sweeper, and cleans up weakened teams easily. The EVs give Yanmega as much HP as possible, while allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock twice. The others go into Sp. Attack, for obvious reasons, and 8 go to Defence for a bit more bulk.
Alternatively, you could give it Tinted Lens, which turns Yanmega into more of a bulky holepuncher than a sweeper or clean up.
I've used Yanmega extensively but never attempted a set like that! You'll need at least two Speed Boosts before you start sweeping, though. It does seem like it would make a nice cleaner if you can get it in on their Conkeldurr when the rest of the team has been weakened.
Here's another Pokemon to add to the vast array of Rain attackers:
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Timid
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Earth Power
Thunder
Sludge Wave/Focus Blast
Surf/Water Pulse
With a handy Electric immunity, great SpA due to its ability, and high-powered moves, Nidoking could make a useful hole-puncher for Rain teams. Earth Power is a great STAB and smashes Toxicroak in particular, and Thunder 2HKOs practically any non-Ground Water-type. Sludge Wave is Nidoking's strongest attack against a select few neutral targets like Rotom-A, and also does massive damage to Grass Pokemon. Focus Blast could be used, but really only for more damage on Ferrothorn. Surf is a standard Water move which gains a pseudo-STAB boost from Rain; the weaker Water Pulse can be used for the lack of LO recoil.
Ice Beam isn't included on the set since it's a common move on Rain teams anyway, although it could find a slot on a Scarf version.
Here's another Pokemon to add to the vast array of Rain attackers:
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Timid
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
Earth Power
Thunder
Sludge Wave/Focus Blast
Surf/Water Pulse
With a handy Electric immunity, great SpA due to its ability, and high-powered moves, Nidoking could make a useful hole-puncher for Rain teams. Earth Power is a great STAB and smashes Toxicroak in particular, and Thunder 2HKOs practically any non-Ground Water-type. Sludge Wave is Nidoking's strongest attack against a select few neutral targets like Rotom-A, and also does massive damage to Grass Pokemon. Focus Blast could be used, but really only for more damage on Ferrothorn. Surf is a standard Water move which gains a pseudo-STAB boost from Rain; the weaker Water Pulse can be used for the lack of LO recoil.
Ice Beam isn't included on the set since it's a common move on Rain teams anyway, although it could find a slot on a Scarf version.
That's a pretty cool set Tenodera. It's basically the standard special attacker set for Nidoking specifically altered to fit on rain teams, and the changes you've made to the standard set are good. I especially like the Sludge Wave idea, as it gets the Sheer Force boost and can take care of Grass-type Pokemon just as well as Flamethrower. Thunderbolt might be a better choice over Thunder just in case you lose the rain and find yourself against an opposing Water-type Pokemon, but if you have the proper team support to deal with other weather starters then Thunder is just fine. Overall, nice set, I'll try it out on one of my rain teams soon!
My sincere apologies
This one is (probably more than) a bit gimmicky but could baton pass a +2 Bulk Up Leftovers Conkledurr's boosts after non-crit, no stealth rock dmg stone edge, which seems, although rather overstating the concept of a niche, a useful thing to be able to do.
Volbeat@Sitrus Berry
Nature: Bold
Ability: Prankster
-Psych Up
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Tail Glow/Thunderwave/Moonlight/Light Screen
Evs: 252 HP / 252Def / 4SpDef
According to this calculator http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html a +2 Stone Edge from Conkledurr does 74-92% after Volbeat has done Psych Up. This would activate the berry, regaining enough HP for Volbeat to survive a Mach Punch & BP out or set up a sub (I think still faster than Mach Punch) and then BP out. Other applications seem plausible at least vs. other physical attackers (without faster priority) & excluding the semi-omnipresent Terrakion (although trying to steal those boosts would be pure suicide)
Tail Glow is there if being used as a more standard Baton Passer, Thunderwave to catch things on the switch, no need for prankster there but it might (I think that's how it works) bring a priority user to a low enough speed for baton pass to get you out faster, Moonlight if you think you need to stall with more subs (very unlikely, almost impossible), and Light Screen just because it is quite useful, but unlikely it will be set up because other moves would be in use.
Those last bits are based on probably inaccurate assumptions about aspects of the game mechanics...
I imagine a specially defensive variant could be made, depending on what boosts you fear most, although the priority moves that really worry Volbeat the most are all physical so that might not be workable.
This one is (probably more than) a bit gimmicky but could baton pass a +2 Bulk Up Leftovers Conkledurr's boosts after non-crit, no stealth rock dmg stone edge, which seems, although rather overstating the concept of a niche, a useful thing to be able to do.
Volbeat@Sitrus Berry
Nature: Bold
Ability: Prankster
-Psych Up
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Tail Glow/Thunderwave/Moonlight/Light Screen
Evs: 252 HP / 252Def / 4SpDef
According to this calculator http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html a +2 Stone Edge from Conkledurr does 74-92% after Volbeat has done Psych Up. This would activate the berry, regaining enough HP for Volbeat to survive a Mach Punch & BP out or set up a sub (I think still faster than Mach Punch) and then BP out. Other applications seem plausible at least vs. other physical attackers (without faster priority) & excluding the semi-omnipresent Terrakion (although trying to steal those boosts would be pure suicide)
Tail Glow is there if being used as a more standard Baton Passer, Thunderwave to catch things on the switch, no need for prankster there but it might (I think that's how it works) bring a priority user to a low enough speed for baton pass to get you out faster, Moonlight if you think you need to stall with more subs (very unlikely, almost impossible), and Light Screen just because it is quite useful, but unlikely it will be set up because other moves would be in use.
Those last bits are based on probably inaccurate assumptions about aspects of the game mechanics...
I imagine a specially defensive variant could be made, depending on what boosts you fear most, although the priority moves that really worry Volbeat the most are all physical so that might not be workable.
More bulky Rotom-W- not very creative...
this is not too different from the builds suggested but I was told to post here despite my thinking it not to be sufficiently creative.
Rotom-W@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP 252SpAttk 4SpDef
Thunder/Discharge
Hydro Pump
Shadow Ball
Will-O-Wisp
see, not much changing here. The idea is it's a rain abuser with Thunder and the massive STAB Hydro Pump, Will-O-Wisp for burning what needs to be burned and Shadow Ball, the main difference, for hitting Celebi &Lati@s on the switch. The damage won't be massive but it will be more than they are expecting and probably enough to weaken more than would be liked. (with 252HP Celebi takes 37-44% from Shadow Ball which, adding stealth rock etc. takes off just about half it's HP, Latias 252HP takes 33-39%) it is marginally more than rain boosted hydro pump but that is still more. The chance to loose Sp. Def is too unlikely to be counting in here but should be remembered too.
Like all, even Pain Split to a degree, Rotom-W, Blissey walls this fella, but that can't be helped, other common counters are still the same with this change and the extra bulk can help make some OHKOs into 2's and 2's into 3's, factoring in physical attacker's burns in relevant cases
this is not too different from the builds suggested but I was told to post here despite my thinking it not to be sufficiently creative.
Rotom-W@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP 252SpAttk 4SpDef
Thunder/Discharge
Hydro Pump
Shadow Ball
Will-O-Wisp
see, not much changing here. The idea is it's a rain abuser with Thunder and the massive STAB Hydro Pump, Will-O-Wisp for burning what needs to be burned and Shadow Ball, the main difference, for hitting Celebi &Lati@s on the switch. The damage won't be massive but it will be more than they are expecting and probably enough to weaken more than would be liked. (with 252HP Celebi takes 37-44% from Shadow Ball which, adding stealth rock etc. takes off just about half it's HP, Latias 252HP takes 33-39%) it is marginally more than rain boosted hydro pump but that is still more. The chance to loose Sp. Def is too unlikely to be counting in here but should be remembered too.
Like all, even Pain Split to a degree, Rotom-W, Blissey walls this fella, but that can't be helped, other common counters are still the same with this change and the extra bulk can help make some OHKOs into 2's and 2's into 3's, factoring in physical attacker's burns in relevant cases
This set looks promising, but the prevalence of Blissey/Chansey would mean that Rotom is better at sticking at its awesome trick sets. Guts pokemon can also make a switch in to this set to get a burn, if they rely on situational status, though that is unlikely.
Lately, I thought of a pretty mad set, that I haven't had the chance to use:
Terrakion 252 HP/ 252 Attack/ 4 Spd @ Toxic Orb
Adamant/Impish Nature
Bulldoze
Facade
Stone Edge
Swords Dance/Close Combat
As I see it, most of Terrakion's moves have drawbacks (acc. for Stone Edge, stat reduction for Close Combat). Poison will hurt Terrakion as well, but it's a reliable hit and run strategy, for which Terrakion is pretty well suited. Facade aims to get good damage on all non-resisting types, Stone Edge for awesome STAB, and Bulldoze to ensure faster threats don't get a chance to get very far. With very little investment in Speed, this can work effectively. Swords Dance is just to boost its obscene attack to colossal levels.
Between these 3 moves, Terrakion can do plenty of damage, but poison means Terrakion will have to switch out soon, so if boosting isn't viable, Close Combat can be.
Counters:
Flying types, namely Gliscor can be pretty much finish off this Terrakion with Poison stall. All others will get a hit in, but Terrakion should survive with its decent base HP.
I really don't want to be mean but seriously have you tested that set yet and realised how non-viable it is? Sword Dance + Stone Edge are great but what on earth is Facade hitting? It's a 140 BP attack when Stone Edge is 150, while Close Combat is 180 BP! If you wanted to hit Terrakion's niche counters like Nidoking then you'd use Earthquake, or X-Scissor for (lol) Claydol. SD already takes good care of many of its switch-ins. Even HP [Ice] could have half a mention for Gliscor (although SD + Air Balloon would be much better) but honestly Facade is not only wasting a moveslot but it's wasting your item slot too with Toxic Orb. I'm not even going to comment on what you're trying to do with Bulldoze and its nature...
The Defence drops from Close Combat seem quite pleasant compared to the Toxic damage you'd be taking + the lack of damage you'd be doing without Life Orb or the immunity Air Balloon would provide, or the extra power or speed a choice item would give. Every attack and item should be doing a job for Terrakion and Facade + Toxic Orb is not doing any.
The Defence drops from Close Combat seem quite pleasant compared to the Toxic damage you'd be taking + the lack of damage you'd be doing without Life Orb or the immunity Air Balloon would provide, or the extra power or speed a choice item would give. Every attack and item should be doing a job for Terrakion and Facade + Toxic Orb is not doing any.
^No it's not at all disparaging! In fact, you probably saved me the embarrassment of going into a battle with a moveset like that. I was thinking of HP Ice + Quiet Nature + Calm Mind in Trick Room but that was pretty mad as well.
I wanted Facade because Normal has decent neutral coverage with bulldoze and SE to take out a few more flying/grounded foes (steels come to mind). Facade has no drawbacks (save for the poison, but wish passers can remedy that).
I shouldn't have attempted coming out with a moveset for a pokemon with a shallow movepool like that. Back to the drawing board.
I wanted Facade because Normal has decent neutral coverage with bulldoze and SE to take out a few more flying/grounded foes (steels come to mind). Facade has no drawbacks (save for the poison, but wish passers can remedy that).
I shouldn't have attempted coming out with a moveset for a pokemon with a shallow movepool like that. Back to the drawing board.
With my previous set being such a fail (lol Facade Terrakion), I decided to make a new set, hopefully a bit more useful than the previous one.
Presenting: A Gengar that can Beat Chansey/Blissey without Pain Split!
Gengar @ Toxic Orb
EVs: 4HP/252SAtk/252Speed
Nature: Modest
Moveset:
Venoshock
Trick
Taunt
Shadow Ball/HP Fire
This set is aimed entirely at wearing down the pink blob to death. While the Pain Split set ensures recovery, Blissey/Chansey won't enjoy this too much. Trick eliminates Blissey's feast, I mean Leftovers and Chansey's Eviolite, severely reducing her bulk. Toxic Orb ensures that even after Natural Cure, Blissey/Chansey will be poisoned once it switches back in. Venoshock reaches a colossal 195 BP (with STAB), that has the potential to 3-4KO Blissey, not even counting the poison damage. Taunt ensures that Blissey/Chansey can't heal herself, rendering her useless for most of the battle. Shadow Ball is for powerful Ghost STAB, and HP Fire ensures Gengar isn't a bait for Scizor to pursuit.
This set is much less useful if Blissey decides to run Shadow Ball, but this is uncommon on Blissey, and unlikely to happen. EVs can be put into HP, if Gengar is required to take Flamethrowers from Blissey.
Presenting: A Gengar that can Beat Chansey/Blissey without Pain Split!
Gengar @ Toxic Orb
EVs: 4HP/252SAtk/252Speed
Nature: Modest
Moveset:
Venoshock
Trick
Taunt
Shadow Ball/HP Fire
This set is aimed entirely at wearing down the pink blob to death. While the Pain Split set ensures recovery, Blissey/Chansey won't enjoy this too much. Trick eliminates Blissey's feast, I mean Leftovers and Chansey's Eviolite, severely reducing her bulk. Toxic Orb ensures that even after Natural Cure, Blissey/Chansey will be poisoned once it switches back in. Venoshock reaches a colossal 195 BP (with STAB), that has the potential to 3-4KO Blissey, not even counting the poison damage. Taunt ensures that Blissey/Chansey can't heal herself, rendering her useless for most of the battle. Shadow Ball is for powerful Ghost STAB, and HP Fire ensures Gengar isn't a bait for Scizor to pursuit.
This set is much less useful if Blissey decides to run Shadow Ball, but this is uncommon on Blissey, and unlikely to happen. EVs can be put into HP, if Gengar is required to take Flamethrowers from Blissey.
Toxic Orb does have some potential on Gengar, but I'd be looking to bluff a choice item with it, and then to let something else deal with the crippled Blissey/Chansey. Something like this:
Gengar @ Toxic Orb
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Fire
-Trick
I can't say it'd be brilliant, but it does at least offer something over the other Gengar sets.
Gengar @ Toxic Orb
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Fire
-Trick
I can't say it'd be brilliant, but it does at least offer something over the other Gengar sets.
Physical Sweeper Kingdra:
Kingdra @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Damp Rock
Adamant
Swift Swim
252 Att/128 Def/128 SpDef
-Rain Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
-Return
I don't like Special Sweeper Kingdras, you set up Rain Dance and then get walled by Blissey or Chansey. So I decided to make a Physical variant.
Once you set up Rain Dance, not much can outspeed Kingdra. Not much can survive a Rain-boosted Waterfall from Kingdra. Outrage for a bit more coverage. I've never really found a use for Return. Sadly, Kingdra's physical-movepool is awful so I had a hard time trying to pick a 4th move for Kingdra.
I chose 252 Att EVs to boost Kingra's power, making him unstoppable (except for things that resist Waterfall). I chose to split the Defenses because you MUST take a turn to setup Rain Dance, and you don't want to have to take a hard-hit in the process. But once you setup Rain Dance, anything that can survive a Waterfall, usually isn't powerful enough to do much to Kingdra.
I usually use Leftovers because while I'm setting up Rain Dance, I will take damage, but when the Rain stops, I will have a good amount of HP back so I can set it up again with no worries of getting KO'd. Damp Rock can be used to extend Rain Dance's time to 8 turns. Lum Berry can be useful when using Outrage.
This thing also counters Sun teams. They lead with Ninetails, I lead with Kingdra. Solarbeam only does ~30% HP, giving me the opportunity to Rain Dance. Waterfall 1hkos, no more Ninetails, no more Sun.
I find the only weakness of this set is Outrage+the 4th moveslot. When using Outrage, you get trapped in it and you get confused, giving the opponent the perfect chance to setup on Kingdra.
I've been using this set a lot lately, and it's really good. If I weren't such a bad team designer, I might be able to make an awesome team based around this guy.
Kingdra @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Damp Rock
Adamant
Swift Swim
252 Att/128 Def/128 SpDef
-Rain Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
-Return
I don't like Special Sweeper Kingdras, you set up Rain Dance and then get walled by Blissey or Chansey. So I decided to make a Physical variant.
Once you set up Rain Dance, not much can outspeed Kingdra. Not much can survive a Rain-boosted Waterfall from Kingdra. Outrage for a bit more coverage. I've never really found a use for Return. Sadly, Kingdra's physical-movepool is awful so I had a hard time trying to pick a 4th move for Kingdra.
I chose 252 Att EVs to boost Kingra's power, making him unstoppable (except for things that resist Waterfall). I chose to split the Defenses because you MUST take a turn to setup Rain Dance, and you don't want to have to take a hard-hit in the process. But once you setup Rain Dance, anything that can survive a Waterfall, usually isn't powerful enough to do much to Kingdra.
I usually use Leftovers because while I'm setting up Rain Dance, I will take damage, but when the Rain stops, I will have a good amount of HP back so I can set it up again with no worries of getting KO'd. Damp Rock can be used to extend Rain Dance's time to 8 turns. Lum Berry can be useful when using Outrage.
This thing also counters Sun teams. They lead with Ninetails, I lead with Kingdra. Solarbeam only does ~30% HP, giving me the opportunity to Rain Dance. Waterfall 1hkos, no more Ninetails, no more Sun.
I find the only weakness of this set is Outrage+the 4th moveslot. When using Outrage, you get trapped in it and you get confused, giving the opponent the perfect chance to setup on Kingdra.
I've been using this set a lot lately, and it's really good. If I weren't such a bad team designer, I might be able to make an awesome team based around this guy.
In the same vein of weird Gengar sets, here's another one:
Gengar @ Black Sludge
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Bold / Levitate
Will-o-wisp
Pain Split
Shadow Ball
Taunt/Perish Song
So, the idea is simple. Gengar gets almost passable physical defense with max/max and still has good speed and spatk without investment. His niche now, though, is to spread burns and stick around for a very long time. The reason to use Gengar to do this is because of its immunity to Toxic, as this helps a lot in combating stall while being immune to Earthquake. He still has utility vs. sand teams though, as he isn't 2hko'ed by scarf Landorus' Sand Force Stone Edge and has a very good chance at burning it. Same for Scizor, BP does 60% max and Pursuit will never KO if you stay in. The only reason you'd use this set over a normal Gengar (which stall has enough trouble with already) is just to be stupid, but I think it might have potential. :)
p.s. black sludge is there solely because of the additional potential payoff. it's a risk you take if you feel like it.
Gengar @ Black Sludge
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Bold / Levitate
Will-o-wisp
Pain Split
Shadow Ball
Taunt/Perish Song
So, the idea is simple. Gengar gets almost passable physical defense with max/max and still has good speed and spatk without investment. His niche now, though, is to spread burns and stick around for a very long time. The reason to use Gengar to do this is because of its immunity to Toxic, as this helps a lot in combating stall while being immune to Earthquake. He still has utility vs. sand teams though, as he isn't 2hko'ed by scarf Landorus' Sand Force Stone Edge and has a very good chance at burning it. Same for Scizor, BP does 60% max and Pursuit will never KO if you stay in. The only reason you'd use this set over a normal Gengar (which stall has enough trouble with already) is just to be stupid, but I think it might have potential. :)
p.s. black sludge is there solely because of the additional potential payoff. it's a risk you take if you feel like it.
Hmm... A bulky gengar? It seems like something like Jellicent or Cofagrigus would be more effective, and you're wasting gengar's andvantages of speed and wallbreaking power. But hey, if it works for you...
Celebi@Choice Band
Natural Cure, Adamant nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Seed Bomb
-U-Turn
-Sucker Punch/Trick
-Zen Headbutt/Trick
Celebi's actually kinda decent with a band. Sure, his coverage sucks, but it's amazing for smashing bulky waters in the face, as none of them like to take seed bombs and scald does nothing-even burn can be switched out with natural cure- and dealing with common celebi checks and counters- blissey, roserade, and hydreigon, for example, all take massive damage from u-turn, not to mention it fucks over lati@s. Sucker punch can revenge kill a lot of things that don't expect it (and ask yourself: did you even know celebi leaned sucker punch?) and hits decently hard, nearly KOing latios, and zen headbutt crushes fighting and poison types like machamp, conkeldurr, toxicroak, and tentacruel. Sure, it's a bit gimmicky, can't hit steel types, and doesn't hit as hard as a powerhouse like scizor, but it's general bulk and utility is nice and it's really fun to use as it generally takes easy KOs and confuses opponents. You can run a bulkier spread, a special coverage move, or trick to mess with walls, but personally I think vanilla CB works fine.
Celebi@Choice Band
Natural Cure, Adamant nature
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Seed Bomb
-U-Turn
-Sucker Punch/Trick
-Zen Headbutt/Trick
Celebi's actually kinda decent with a band. Sure, his coverage sucks, but it's amazing for smashing bulky waters in the face, as none of them like to take seed bombs and scald does nothing-even burn can be switched out with natural cure- and dealing with common celebi checks and counters- blissey, roserade, and hydreigon, for example, all take massive damage from u-turn, not to mention it fucks over lati@s. Sucker punch can revenge kill a lot of things that don't expect it (and ask yourself: did you even know celebi leaned sucker punch?) and hits decently hard, nearly KOing latios, and zen headbutt crushes fighting and poison types like machamp, conkeldurr, toxicroak, and tentacruel. Sure, it's a bit gimmicky, can't hit steel types, and doesn't hit as hard as a powerhouse like scizor, but it's general bulk and utility is nice and it's really fun to use as it generally takes easy KOs and confuses opponents. You can run a bulkier spread, a special coverage move, or trick to mess with walls, but personally I think vanilla CB works fine.
Here's a mixed Tornadus set I've been playing around with, it sweeps so many teams it's really awesome.
Tornadus @ Flying Gem
Prankster
Hasty Nature
56 Att / 200 SpAtt / 252 Spe
-Acrobatics
-Brick Break
-Bulk Up
-Hurricane
With those EVs in attack, you will always OHKO 252/0 Tyranitar with a +1 Brick Break after Stealth Rock damage, as well is a 50% chance to OHKO 252/252 Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock damage with a +1 Gem-boosed Acrobatics. So many of Tornadus' usual counters fall to it's physical attacks while nearly everything else falls to Hurricane. I use it on rain teams and no one sees it coming. The real reason this set is so dangerous is the use of two flying moves with Flying Gem. This allows you to choose between firing off an extremely powerful physical or special move, making Tornadus an incredible wall breaker.
Using a +Atk nature such as Naughty will net you a 100% chance to OHKO Blissey with a +1 Gem boosted Acrobatics, but ouspeeding a +Speed Base 110s is more important as there are no other important KOs that I know of. Hasty is used rather than Naive to better balance Tornadus' defenses after a Bulk Up, but a Naive Nature may be preferred to better take physical priority
Tornadus @ Flying Gem
Prankster
Hasty Nature
56 Att / 200 SpAtt / 252 Spe
-Acrobatics
-Brick Break
-Bulk Up
-Hurricane
With those EVs in attack, you will always OHKO 252/0 Tyranitar with a +1 Brick Break after Stealth Rock damage, as well is a 50% chance to OHKO 252/252 Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock damage with a +1 Gem-boosed Acrobatics. So many of Tornadus' usual counters fall to it's physical attacks while nearly everything else falls to Hurricane. I use it on rain teams and no one sees it coming. The real reason this set is so dangerous is the use of two flying moves with Flying Gem. This allows you to choose between firing off an extremely powerful physical or special move, making Tornadus an incredible wall breaker.
Using a +Atk nature such as Naughty will net you a 100% chance to OHKO Blissey with a +1 Gem boosted Acrobatics, but ouspeeding a +Speed Base 110s is more important as there are no other important KOs that I know of. Hasty is used rather than Naive to better balance Tornadus' defenses after a Bulk Up, but a Naive Nature may be preferred to better take physical priority
Wow that looks like a really fun set! Double STAB is a fantastic idea and can clean up late game too, I'll definitely be trying it. Thanks for posting. You do wish Tornadus could fit Taunt or Rain Dance somewhere but no room ;_;
I've considered dropping Bulk Up and Brick Break and running a more specially oriented set, maybe with Focus Blast and then Taunt/Rain Dance/Tailwind/Substitute all as possible fourth moveslot options.
Hasty (+Spe, -Def) =/= Hardy (+0, -0).
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
At first glance, this set might seem rather odd. However, this set has often brought me sweeps where I otherwise couldn't. Substitute and Lum Berry might seem redundant, but that's the key to this set. The goal of this set is to set up on status Pokemon. The best opportunity is to set up on something that doesn't threaten Dragonite and will guaranteed switch out (such as Landorus locked in Earthquake). Then, you Dragon Dance / Substitute while they switch to their counter. If it's a counter that relies on status to take out Dragonite, use Dragon Dance again while they burn your Lum Berry. Now, Substitute while they status again. If it's a revenge killer on their team that beats Dragonite, use Substitute first, and take it out. Now, this set can also easily set up on defensive Pokemon with status such as Will-O-Wisp. This works as the following:
- Dragon Dance while they burn your Lum Berry, or better miss.
- If status missed last turn, Dragon Dance again.
- Substitute while they try to status again.
- Now, you have a Substitute and a Dragon Dance up, so depending on the situation you can exchange that Substitute for another Dragon Dance.
The moves chosen can differ. Outrage and Earthquake are usually the best options, but Dragon Claw, Fire Punch, and Waterfall are all perfectly viable.
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
At first glance, this set might seem rather odd. However, this set has often brought me sweeps where I otherwise couldn't. Substitute and Lum Berry might seem redundant, but that's the key to this set. The goal of this set is to set up on status Pokemon. The best opportunity is to set up on something that doesn't threaten Dragonite and will guaranteed switch out (such as Landorus locked in Earthquake). Then, you Dragon Dance / Substitute while they switch to their counter. If it's a counter that relies on status to take out Dragonite, use Dragon Dance again while they burn your Lum Berry. Now, Substitute while they status again. If it's a revenge killer on their team that beats Dragonite, use Substitute first, and take it out. Now, this set can also easily set up on defensive Pokemon with status such as Will-O-Wisp. This works as the following:
- Dragon Dance while they burn your Lum Berry, or better miss.
- If status missed last turn, Dragon Dance again.
- Substitute while they try to status again.
- Now, you have a Substitute and a Dragon Dance up, so depending on the situation you can exchange that Substitute for another Dragon Dance.
The moves chosen can differ. Outrage and Earthquake are usually the best options, but Dragon Claw, Fire Punch, and Waterfall are all perfectly viable.
Not that I know of, but there are a few options for different natures. Using a +Atk nature such as Naughty nets you a 100% chance to OHKO Blissey with a +1 Gem boosted Acrobatics, but ouspeeding a +Speed Base 110s is more important as there are no other important KOs that I know of. Hasty is used rather than Naive to better balance Tornadus' defenses after a Bulk Up, but a Naive Nature may be preferred to better take physical priority which is one of the main threats to this Tornadus set. I'll edit the original post with some of this info.
Ah I misread what you said, edited for correctness.
I'd definitely want to keep Bulk Up and Brick Break because one of the biggest selling points of the set for me is to be able to lure and eliminate Tyranitar. Using Focus Blast would mean it's just another ordinary special sweeper with a one time powerful physical attack, but if it can't get past Blissey then you might as well go full special. So BU + Brick Break all the way for me.
I think signal beam might be better than shadow ball since it hits celebi harder (68,75% chance to OHKO if uninvested in defenses) while being marginally weaker vs the lati twins.
And that Tornadus looks sweet! I dont´t like the BU set on site because tornadus loses his extremely powerful hurricane but now it has it. I will try it out on my rain team
Sableye Rain Troll
Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Rain Dance
Will O Wisp/Confuse Ray
Taunt
Recover
Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Rain Dance
Will O Wisp/Confuse Ray
Taunt
Recover
Regarding other sets:
- The Dragonite is not 'creative' at all, it's well-known by everyone
- I like the mixed Tornadus, that's not a bad idea.
- Toxic Orb Gengar sounds cool too.
Now then, I have just one question for you all.
Why.
The HELL.
Don't.
More people.
Use Counter on Forretress?
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes/SR/TSpikes
- Rapid Spin
- COUNTER
And Volt Switch sucks ass. I seriously cannot comprehend why Volt Switch is so much more popular than Counter when it is so, SO much worse by comparison. Counter allows you to Spike up in Conkeldurr and pals while they BU to +6, then Counter the Drain Punch or whatever for the KO. Or, even if you're unsure about your prediction skills, you can literally just spam Counter in their face while they set up if you're not sure whether they'll wait to hit +6 or not to attack you. At best, it phazes them out, and at worst, you get into a stall war while they try to make you run out of Counter PP. Either way is an effective method of stopping setup sweepers like Conkurr. I use him in conjunction with Sub-Disable Gengar, and together the two of them take a giant steaming crap all over the likes of Gliscor, Conkeldurr, Breloom, and any other Fighting/Ground setup sweepers with only two attacks.
Also it's a hell of a lot better than Volt Switch, did I mention that yet?
- The Dragonite is not 'creative' at all, it's well-known by everyone
- I like the mixed Tornadus, that's not a bad idea.
- Toxic Orb Gengar sounds cool too.
Now then, I have just one question for you all.
Why.
The HELL.
Don't.
More people.
Use Counter on Forretress?
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes/SR/TSpikes
- Rapid Spin
- COUNTER
And Volt Switch sucks ass. I seriously cannot comprehend why Volt Switch is so much more popular than Counter when it is so, SO much worse by comparison. Counter allows you to Spike up in Conkeldurr and pals while they BU to +6, then Counter the Drain Punch or whatever for the KO. Or, even if you're unsure about your prediction skills, you can literally just spam Counter in their face while they set up if you're not sure whether they'll wait to hit +6 or not to attack you. At best, it phazes them out, and at worst, you get into a stall war while they try to make you run out of Counter PP. Either way is an effective method of stopping setup sweepers like Conkurr. I use him in conjunction with Sub-Disable Gengar, and together the two of them take a giant steaming crap all over the likes of Gliscor, Conkeldurr, Breloom, and any other Fighting/Ground setup sweepers with only two attacks.
Also it's a hell of a lot better than Volt Switch, did I mention that yet?
Volt Switch is for luring and trapping spin blockers and Magic Bouncers. That alone makes it useful. I can't really see Counter being useful myself, the time I can see it being used is on Outraging Dragons (and you're better off setting hazards in that time) or late game when your opponent is getting desperate and can only hit Forretress with physical attacks. 90% of the time, especially early game, Forretress is taking random HP [Fire]s... I'd rather keep Volt Switch and swap Gyro Ball for Counter.
- Status