CAP 14 CAP 3 - Concept Submissions

[Powergrid]

Just so you guys know...

I have adjusted my Leech concept to involve status problems as well as Health draining, and now have rewritten the questions for it, as when I looked back on them I realized how bad they were... They are now decent questions, and I clarified what my idea was, so for those who haven't seen, it's the post labeled Leech! You can find it on page 2, for now

 

[ZhengTann]

Bore Meedfack

ZhengTann: Do we have our "break-the-mold 2"? I think this would be a way successful way to approach Cape's idea.

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't think I'm up to Cape's level yet, since I basically started CAP after he was promoted to TL on CAP 2. To be honest, Cape's idea is more diverse, whereas mine specifies on statuses alone. Each to his/her/its own taste, I suppose.

I remember reading another comment somewhere (sorry that I couldn't find a quote after you took the time to share your thoughts about my ideas - THANK YOU) that it might not work because my submission implies a less-than-subtle change to the game mechanics. While I admit that it would be an easy way, I would also hope that as a community, we can find our answers by pooling our resources and coming up with lateral ingenuity. I know all too well that there are submissions similar to mine, and also that there are submissions way better than mine (more on that later). But I'm still happy that my submission garnered the attention it did, as it will help me to be a better contributor to the community in the future.

On another note, Birkal has just reminded me of something:-

... Pokemon Black 2 & White 2 are on the horizon for release this summer. If we're ever going to test the BW OU tier ...... it must be now. The move tutors and other factors presented within B2W2, plus the new added threats of Keldeo and possibly Genesect, will shake up the metagame too much for us to get accurate data on the first wave of competitive BW OU battling.

With the release of B2 and W2 so near, I suppose it might not be a good idea to CAP a concept that requires lengthy discussions, not when the metagame would be overturned so quickly. Of course, Deck_Knight and the mods team could prevent this with a firm steering, but some ideas just need a lot of intelligent communications and knowledge sharing to be truly beneficial to the CAP and the participating community as a whole. R_D's the Deceiver, BMB's Psychological Warfare MkII, Pwnemon's Switchmaster are some of the examples I can name that might not be done justice with the time-frame suggested by Birkal. Their ideas are so mind-blowing - hell, who am I to submit my own thoughts beside them? - it would be a shame if any of those ideas were rushed through, or made even partially invalid because of the sequel releases.

 

[MLaRF]

Feedbackula

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ZhengTann: I forgot to mention in my last post, that with so many diverse ideas, I think a successful CAP can be made with a multitude of concept submissions combined. For instance, even if we did head for Cape's "break-the-mold" idea, we could use your submission as the way to break the mold, and still be successful. Just because his idea is more diverse doesn't mean it's better (though I don't think I've formed an opinion on whether it is or not, so please don't interpret this as me disrespecting it), it means that we can fulfill it is more ways, one of which could be yours, and some other ways to do it were most likely stated already.

But yeah, getting back to my first statement, just because an idea isn't the one picked, if it can fill the role or compliment it, any of your guys' ideas can still be brought to light, and I would like to see the addition of people's ideas that "aren't chosen" to further improve the pokemon we create.

Lisalo: I think the idea might be neat, though I have a bit of a hard time understanding what exactly the justification means. Also, please take the time to review your spelling and grammar before posting, I have spotted several mistakes.

Master of the Six Kings: This seems like it's essentially Rampardos, Darmanitan, or Ninjask. I feel as if the idea has been done by game freak already and is generally not too functional outside the mons with good types like Haxorus.

Phoopes: I think I said that I liked a similar concept with the frail sweeper someone posted, but I kind of like this better, as it implies that it will also support teams built around the playstyle as opposed to just one user of it.

Juicebox: A broader take on the two-turn wonder thing, could also work in conjunction with mine as a good gimmick. I also really like this idea because it brings up the usage of some less-used strategies and moves.

Scorpio: I love the concept, but your delivery seems to be a bit lacking. There isn't a lot of description, and I almost thought your justification section was skipped for the questions section. I don't prominently play OU, so I can't quite say if there really is a "one pokemon dominating the metagame" to counter, but there may be issues if this is an exaggeration.

Jelliscent: I love the concept, but I feel Wobbuffet is basically this idea, and please put some kind of separation in the questions section, it's quite hard to read.

DarkBlazeR: Simple, and I love it, because it helps defensive playing. Though there are plenty similar pokes, much like the examples you gave, even if they aren't too big in the metagame.

Camisado: I especially love this because of the new Dream World abilities making a lot of pokemon partially fill this concept. Not much else to say.

DetroitLolcat: I really like this idea, because I tend to have none of the luck, none of it, so it'd be relevant to my interests. However, luck kind of plays a somewhat important role in the game, as stated here under the section "randomness," that it allows somewhat less skilled players a chance to beat more skilled ones. I know it's a card game thing, but it still applies to pokemon, because it talks about the exact same thing, balancing luck and lucklessness.

LouisCyphre: Oh yeah, I remember this! I kinda like this concept a lot, and it especially has the potential to help less-used strategies and mons depending upon how we approach this weakness.

Juicy: Though I like this, sleep clause effectively hinders it once the sleep is inflicted or received.

Bulky: I kind of don't quite understand what you're getting at. The wording is somewhat misleading, especially with the title, and I think there may have been a place where you missed a comma (though this maybe wrong).

Dragontongue: I really like this, because it has so much potential to bring back suicide leads; however, it would become way too predictable as a lead, bar the possibility of a magnificent offensive stat, and without creating a more powerful version of shadow tag it would also create a much larger emphasis on the voltturn strategy everyone seems to think is way too prominent.

Helios: Are you the one from GSSS? Anywhales, I do kinda like this one, especially since it seems like a killer of the powerful dragon sweepers.

XL*5: This may be cool, but my opinion thinks stealth rock is already too prominent and will way overcentralize the metagame.

 

[Nauris]

Name: Psycho Shifter
General Description: A pokémon that can transfer status to other pokémon using Psycho Shift.
Justification:
Many pokémon use status move to counter specific pokémons. This gives free switch in to some pokémons being immune to specific status problems while not many of them benefit more that the free switch in.
Questions To Be Answered:
- How will this affect team building?
- Will be status be less used?
- Will this open make stall less or more viable?
- Will this defensive or offensive pokémon?

Explanation: As many teams use status to gain edge over opponents team what if it used againts them? Does the pokémon need more ways to get rid of status outside rest, berries and psycho shift?

This pokémon should be able to switch in common status inducers without getting 2HKO'ed. While giving status back to its sender it could give free switch in like normal status moves like toxic.

 

[Cretacerus]

I see Psycho Shift as a too unreliable way of spreading status/getting rid of status to be commonly used

 

[Nauris]

I see Psycho Shift as a too unreliable way of spreading status/getting rid of status to be commonly used

It's has limited uses to get rid of status unless opponent has cleric in his/hers team. It can gain you momentum or give it to opponent. While it makes pokémons who you toxic stall partially useless. It can be used with rest-talk to spread sleep and other status from opponent or from orb. You could also combine it with pokémon who has heal bell or aromatherapy like blissey or celebi to make sure that your team is free from status.

 

[Nauris]

To get most of most concepts it's best to combine concepts to test how to make pokémon that fits multiple concepts. Some are viable without other concept, like sleeping beauty, but it can easily combined with other concept like my psycho shifter which is not that good concept alone or with the break the mold which also good concept alone like sleeping beauty. Combining concepts can create pokémon that is unpredicable and can do many jobs well.

 

[Jellicent]

Jelliscent: I love the concept, but I feel Wobbuffet is basically this idea, and please put some kind of separation in the questions section, it's quite hard to read.

Sorry, added hyphens >.>

Anyway, I can definitely see the comparison to Wobbuffet, but I was hoping this could play a bit differently. Wobbuffet is capable of using Counter / Mirror Coat to bring down most Pokemon, but it is not without its flaws. Physical Ghosts (Dusknoir + co), special Darks (Hydreigon, Zoroak, etc), Baton Pass (and to a lesser extent VoltTurning, Shed Shell), anything that can 2HKO it, and, most importantly, Taunt all stop it from consistently taking down any threat it chooses. Furthermore, Wobbuffet doesn't have to sacrifice its own life to remove its target, granting it the ability to continue messing around either against weaker foes or with aid from Wish / Healing Wish. Finally, thanks to Encore and Shadow Tag, it is a very effective teammate for setup sweepers.

Ideally, this CAP would be more successful than Wobbuffet at removing any one Pokemon that it needs to. Also, it would be unable to stick around afterwards, more similar to a powerful Explosion user in this aspect. Perhaps most importantly, its uses would be limited to doing just that. Encoring so a setup sweeper can easily begin its sweep is a much different type of team support that this would hopefully not be capable of. It would be a much more blunt one for one, more akin to a Perish Trapper that couldn't switch out at the last turn on the clock.

 

[Wyverii]

If people want to combine concepts for whatever reason. PM each other and discuss a collaboration. Don't fill up the thread with these requests. We're looking for concepts and feedback, not suggestions on what would make a good concept.

Powergrid, your post seriously implies hijacking the process. With terms like, "deciding multiple dual type options" and "co-create". A single person, or even two people, do not dictate how this CAP, or any CAP, is made. Watch your terminology.

Remember people, if you have a potential concept but are unsure of how viable or legal it is, head onto the #cap irc server or pm a CAP mod. If you're unsure about the process in general read up on the process onsite and lurk in the threads a while to get more comfortable.

 

[Powergrid]

If people want to combine concepts for whatever reason. PM each other and discuss a collaboration. Don't fill up the thread with these requests. We're looking for concepts and feedback, not suggestions on what would make a good concept.

Powergrid, your post seriously implies hijacking the process. With terms like, "deciding multiple dual type options" and "co-create". A single person, or even two people, do not dictate how this CAP, or any CAP, is made. Watch your terminology.

Remember people, if you have a potential concept but are unsure of how viable or legal it is, head onto the #cap irc server or pm a CAP mod. If you're unsure about the process in general read up on the process onsite and lurk in the threads a while to get more comfortable.

Sorry, sorry! I meant concept! I apologize for making it sound like I was trying to hijack the process, which I was not intending in the slightest! Again, sorry Wyverii!

 

[Juicy]

Juicy: Though I like this, sleep clause effectively hinders it once the sleep is inflicted or received.

- MLaRf

Thankyou for the feedback, I'm glad you like it! You have a good point about just the one pokemon inflicted with sleep, but then who's to say it's effectiveness ends there. A 'sleep master' could put pokemon asleep and allow extra time for a strategy to unfold. Further, and more importantly, this pokemon's usefulness will not end there if it could do both jobs and receive the sleep itself, either by its own automatic device or other, and provide a valuable status absorber perhaps with healing and phasing tactics, for example, which could turn the metagame on it's head. It's a concept to see what a competitively effective 'sleep master' could do as apposed to the gimmick sleeping pokemon or the pokemon who use sleep but not a central point to its strategic play.

Edited my concept to include this point.

 

[boo836]

Name: Centralizing Silliness.

General Description: CAP is focused on altering the metagame in an extreme way, causing massive changes in usage statistics. CAP should cause a decline in some very common Pokemon and stratagies and promote the usage of Pokemon and stratagies that are used less, but unlike the 'Decentralizer', CAP should actually try to centralize the metagame around a strategy (but not to the point of taking all the 'fun' out of the game). The strategy should not be one that is already dominating the regular metagame (Like Volt-turning or Standard Rain).

Justification: The point behind this concept is to investigate more into centralization and how the community feels about it, specifically on how far we can centralize the game around something without absolutely ruining the metagame, and whether a centralized metagame can still be a desirable metagame. I strongly believe that what we learn from this CAP can impact how we think about future CAPs and future changes to the regular metagames (tier changes).
Questions To Be Answered:

• How far can the game be centralized while still being 'fun'?
• What are the differences between the centralized CAP playtest and the regular OU metagame?
• Are those differences desirable? What about the similarities?

Explanation: While most people are shuddering at the thought of intentionally making the game unbalanced, I feel that making a CAP a centralizing force is a neat way to observe centralization. I do ask that people try to keep an open mind and remember that CAP isn't for adding Pokemon to balance the metagame, it's for learning about how certain additions affect the metagame.

 

[winterpetrel]

bugmaniacbob's looks like it would be a whole lot of fun to use. Anyway:


Name: Custom-made offense
General Description: Create a strong attacking Pokemon wih only one viable set; however, this Pokemon uses this set exceptionally well to do great offensive damage to the opponent. (Sort of an offensive version of Wobbufett)
Justification: While we can now see our opponent's entire team, Pokemon like Tyranitar and many others still have several equally dangerous sets, and we must discover what set it is using in order to properly counter it. This CAP would allow us to learn more about the metagame by letting us find out how much of a Pokemon's effectiveness comes from its set and how much comes from its innate characteristics.
Questions To Be Answered:
-Can a Pokemon be effective even if there is absolutely no mystery about what it will do?
-Can a Pokemon truly have no counters?

Explanation: At least in DPP, Wobbufett was almost guaranteed to get at least one KO, regardless of the fact that it could only run one set. This CAP would probably have high attacking stats (or at least one attacking stat) and maybe speed, but not necessarily. The main focus would be the movepool. It would probably be small and designed to fit a specific purpose: defeat the opponents team. However, so we do not create a clone of Wobbufett, I believe this CAP should use attacking moves in my opnion. We would also have to avoid just giving it 200 base attack and speed and making its movepool four 120 BP moves. I think it could be done in a way that uses the set in a specific way that works and is pulled off better by this CAP than by any other Pokemon; however, using this specific set is he only option this CAP has.

will add more when using actual keyboard instead of small laggy ipod keyboard

 

[DetroitLolcat]

Name: F BS Hax

General Description: A Pokemon that is meant to counter luck-based strategies and luck-based secondary moves. Likewise, this Pokemon will counter Pokemon and sets that rely on luck to inflict damage.

Justification: This Pokemon would have a positive effect on the metagame by reducing the amount of influence luck-based strategies have in the metagame. For example, many Pokemon, such as Jirachi and AcroBat Gliscor, rely on secondary effects of moves and abilities to fulfill their roles, which takes control of the game out of the players' hands and into the RNG's. Moves like Scald are only used in OU because of their secondary effects. This concept would also allow Pokemon who are especially susceptible to "hax" to thrive in the metagame and create a more skill-based metagame. Also, much controversy has sprouted recently about the jurisdiction of Evasion Clause and what "hax" should be covered there. Since CAP 3 would ideally be designed to counter Evasion-based strategies, we could see what the metagame would be like under a more far-reaching Evasion Clause.

Questions To Be Answered:

1. What is the role of luck in the current OU metagame?

2. Can luck, which plays a role in almost every turn of a Pokemon match, be truly contained by just one Pokemon?

3. What Pokemon are hampered and aided most by luck in the OU metagame?

4. What makes luck-based strategies so effective in the OU metagame?


Explanation: Luck manifests itself in numerous ways in the game of Pokemon, from dedicated hax Pokemon such as Jirachi or AcroScor to secondary effects of moves such as Scald, Thunder, or Lava Plume. In some cases, moves only see competitive use because of their secondary effects. This CAP project would allow the community to discuss what makes "hax" work while lessening the amount of influence it has on the metagame. The reason why I feel that F BS Hax would be a good concept is because it has exceptional depth and breadth. It allows us to analyze what a more hax-free metagame would have and what Pokemon would thrive if it weren't for moves like Scald, Lava Plume, and Discharge. We can also explore Evasion, Accuracy, and critical hits and design a Pokemon specifically tailored to deal with unexpected instances of luck.

Luck is both a evident and subtle force in the metagame because it plays a role in almost every turn of a Pokemon game. From damage rolls, which occur every turn, to 10% effects, every time you select an attack you are probably hoping for one of the rare, luck-based events that make Pokemon the great game it is.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Some replies to feedback:

The question I'd propose on this is how do we make this particular Pokemon stand out from a generic Good Pokemon that can do some of these things, like Dragonite and Reuniclus, which both have a combination of recovery and offensive prowess combined with good abilities.

As I said below, my own personal interpretation of the concept would be something that is far more defensively inclined than offensively - both of the Pokemon you mentioned above are typically classed as "good Pokemon" purely for their offensive ability, or rather, ability to stay in, threaten stuff, and occasionally steamroll the opposing team into submission. I feel that my preferred approach would be to go about this from a defensive standpoint, which gives CAP3 the capability to go either for the seemingly-invincible approach or the much lauded "lull them into a false sense of security before breaking them" sort of thing. I honestly don't think that any Pokemon that actually relies on this sort of tactic currently exists in OU, at least to any reasonable capacity; this is not to say that it shouldn't have any sort of offensive presence at all, as this is certainly necessary to present some sort of credible threat to the opponent, in addition to moves like Taunt and status that can further aggravate the opponent. I can't say that this is the only form the concept should take, just that this is my most favoured one at present. I dare say others will come up with

My only concern is just making a generally great pokemon and throwing it out there to scare people like Excadrill or Garchomp did.

In hindsight Water/Dragon was a stupid typing to suggest; on the spur of the moment it was the first one that came to mind as having good neutral STAB and few weaknesses, but I can see how it would give the impression of "overwhelmingly powerful mon". The fear factor that Garchomp and Excadrill brought could be a legitimate direction to take the concept in, but I feel it would be a waste - after all, just about any strong offensive Pokemon does that. I'm far more interested in deception stress - as in, less "this thing is going to kill my entire team" and more "what the heck do I have to do to kill this thing". As I said above, I would prefer to see this Pokemon more defensively based, but with some sort of emphasis on Speed and frustrating moves, and an ability to seem stronger than it actually is.

On another note entirely, I would also like to point out that for my concept, every stage counts competitively - including art and sprites. I'd like to think that sprites are a big part of what make some Pokemon so difficult to face, and here's an opportunity to test that... heh.

Now, some short comments on some of the concepts I'm interested in:

The Deceiver: I really do like this one. At present, I can only think of a few ways of concealing information from the opponent, which makes the cynic in me question whether there is any way this concept can succeed outside of the obvious answers like Multitype and Illusion, but the optimist in me (yes, he's there somewhere) wants to think that there is a wealth of good ideas just waiting to be tapped. Similar to my concept? Maybe in ambition, but I don't think so, really. They're both about manipulating the opponent to an extent, but that's as far as it goes. In any case, it's no issue. I'd love to see this concept go through.

Break the Mold 2: I have my reservations, but they're not enough to keep me from hoping for possibilities. Yes, perhaps most of the fun combinations are restricted to doubles, but perhaps something along the lines of Truant Entrainment Durant... two supposedly useless elements that combine to create... something... can't really think of anything at the moment, but I'm sure somebody will. One thing that makes me love a concept is having many possibilities, and this one has almost every move in the game to choose from. Actually, now that I think about it, Scyther's a decent example, what with Technician Aerial Ace and Bug Bite, and what not. Maybe something with Stall as an ability...

Checkmate: This might be a fun concept, though I can see trying to balance it so that it does what it says on the tin could be troublesome. But hey, that's an exercise we know a good deal about now. I'd like to have a bash at it, anyway.

Snow Emergency: Yes, I know I hate hail concepts. And yes, I am pretty sure that this will basically be a failure unless we make a moderately decent hail starter, otherwise we have the difficulty of "why bother using it on a hail team anyway" or "it has to be broken to make hail viable" and such like. But I can't help feeling that this is something that ought to be looked into at some point. We have all our Gravity/Trick Room/whatever concepts, but like it or not, hail is really the only actually viable underdeveloped playstyle, and I'd love the chance to try to manipulate a whole playstyle rather than a single Pokemon at some point.

Decentralizer Revisited: A Pokemon that can simultaneously check Sand, Rain, and Volt-Turn? Surely such a thing cannot exist! Well, ok, Celebi and maybe Gastrodon to an extent. But I'd love to see something more aggressively counter to these strategies, and I'd be interested to see what we could come up with. Maybe even a Snow Warning user could come into it.

There are quite a few concepts in this thread that I feel are extremely limited or don't seem to have been thought through very well, but then, I said the same thing about Necturna. We'll see.

Aaand it's now 1:00 am. Tired now.

 

[paintseagull]

Name: F BS Hax

General Description: A Pokemon that is meant to counter luck-based strategies and luck-based secondary moves. Likewise, this Pokemon will counter Pokemon and sets that rely on luck to inflict damage.

Just want to say a couple things regarding luck. If you're going to talk about it, it's important to understand a few things.
From The Theory of Poker by David Sklansky (slightly edited):

"..it is far more likely for good players to suffer bad beats, than for an average player or weak player to suffer them. If good players want to better their game and better their emotional state when playing, they should realize it's a mirage. If you are an excellent player, people are going to draw out on you a lot more than you're going to draw out on them because they're simply going to have the worst hand against you a lot more times than you have the worst hand against them.
Expert players do not rely on luck. They are at war with luck. They use their skill to minimize luck as much as possible."

I realise this analogy isn't 100% perfect, but it's worth thinking about this kind of thing: Probability over many rounds always results in the same thing. Bad beats due to crazy bad luck only happen sometimes. Nobody is more unlucky than anyone else.

edit: Not saying you weren't aware of these things, moreso that I find this is a really good way to summarize that makes it easy to think about.

 

[papainfernape95]

Name: You're Not Quite My Type

General Description: This Pokémon would attempt to avoid being typecast because of its typing, and furthermore, attempt to play as differently as possible from the typecast.

Justification: More often than not, at the release of a generation, Pokémon are immediately typecast by players and Game Freak alike based on typing, and generally such assumptions aren't really wrong or off-base. This concept would allow us to learn more about the metagame by examining just how much of an impact typing has on a Pokémon's playstyle, reminiscient of the intense analysis and speculation that ignited when the Rotom formes' new typings were released for BW. It would also help us further understand why the metagame is so biased towards certain types that play in certain ways.


Questions To Be Answered:

• What traits/niches/playstyles are associated with what types?
• To what extent can a Pokémon overcome a "bad" typing to become a top-tier threat? On the flipside, how bad can a Pokémon with a "good" typing be?
• How much is it possible to deviate from the usual expectations of a typing without becoming outclassed or irrelevant?
• How would this Pokémon's unorthodox playstyle affect its success at being used in a type-based core? Are type-based cores successful due to the combination of typings, or the associated traits/niches?
• Would Pokémon who play roles that are less traditional for their types make better teammates for this Pokémon, or would it be so different that it would require very "run-of-the-mill" teammates?

Explanation: When I say "Dragon-type", you probably think "offense". There's a reason for that. Almost all OU Dragon-types play offensively. Even those that lend themselves to defense or support, such as Latias (and arguably Dragonite as of late), are more than capable of taking the offensive route if they so choose. How did Flygon and Kingdra get to UU? They simply couldn't hold up to the standards of the powerhouse a Dragon "should" be.

I say all this to hopefully provide a clearer illustration of what I mean by the typecasting of... well, types. Currently the only OU Normal-types are Blissey and Chansey, and while Cloyster sports a gargantuan base 180 Defense, it is nearly always seen playing as a SmashSweeper, and that is the set that made it OU. Thus, this Pokémon would be successful were it to, for example, make a defensive Ice-type or an offensive Normal-type not only viable, but effective in OU. While I'm sure we could come up with something more fun and/or creative and the possibilities are limitless, this would be one way to accomplish the goal of the concept.

I also would like to point out that, while not required, I would strongly prefer for this Pokémon to be able to perform well using only one playstyle. As I said earlier, while some OU Dragons CAN be defensive, they ALL can be offensive. Were we to go with the Dragon-type for the concept (and again, I use it only for the sake of example), we would want to make it a defensive Dragon that simply cannot perform well in an offensive role but is still viable in OU. CAP 3 would need to be unable to perform roles considered typical for its type, as well as able to perform well in roles considered atypical for its type. A good way to imagine this is like if Latias had base 20 Special Attack but everything else about her remained the same.

And as sort of an afterthought, this concept, if we so chose, would also have the potential to help us to investigate the implications of dual typings on playstyle. The Rotom formes' Electric typing does quite a bit to help them play defensively (think SubSplit), as thanks to Levitate, it essentially gives them free resistances to Electric, Flying and Steel (unless negated by the secondary typing). Not exactly vital resistances, but handy nonetheless, especially with the ubiquity of Steel-types in OU. I do think, however, that it would be better to stick with a monotyped Pokémon, both because that would make the creation process less complicated, and because I think a dual-type would be less comparable to Pokémon of one type or the other due to the large influence of its secondary typing; for example, comparing a monotype like Alomomola to all Water-types instead of comparing a dual-type like Gliscor to both all Ground-types and all Flying-types. However, if the community thinks it would be to our benefit, I see no reason not to trudge on and create something dual-typed, as it would potentially allow us to learn even more.

And lastly, since I didn't really know where to put this, keep in mind that naturally, movepool is heavily affected by type, so we would probably learn a bit about the impacts of movepools that are standard and/or unorthodox as well (like how Donphan gets Ice Shard, which it is seen carrying rather consistently).

Thanks for reading! Questions and feedback welcome!

 

[Galladiator]

I only read the first couple of pages of this thread, so hopefully this isn't too similar to anything else posted.

Name: All-Around Threat

General Description: A Pokemon that can fill a wide variety of roles, from special sweeper to physical wall, depending on its EV spread and nature.

Justification: Most of the metagame is centered around certain Pokemon filling certain niches. For example, Hydreigon is a fast special sweeper, Blissey is a special wall, etc. This CAP would be able to fill all of these niches in a pinch, but not to the extent that it becomes near-omnipotent.

Questions to be Answered:

• How do we make the Pokemon a true "all-around" fighter? (Moves, base stats, etc.)
• How do we ensure that its multitasking ability doesn't break the metagame?
• How versatile is TOO versatile? (That is, how do we ensure that CAP3 has plenty of options to fool its opponents, but not enough to become a "new Mew"?)

Explanation: I've always been fascinated with the whole niche system, and I've wondered how we can break the mold and create something that nobody sees coming. I don't want this to turn into "Mew, but less so"; I'd like this to be a strong Pokemon in its own right.

 

[Deck Knight]

Just as a note, I have looked over some of the newer concepts, and most of them aren't that appealing to me. Emo Fighter reminds my of Staraptor, Psycho Shift isn't gamechanging enough to focus around (e.g. why won't foes just slaughter you instead of statusing you), Custom-made offense is a bit too one-dimensional.

Centralizing Silliness strikes me as a slightly better direction than Decentralizer Revisited, since what we learned from Arghonaut is that you usually end up Re-Centralizing rather than Decentralizing, but Birkal's questions are far and away superior to focus on.

Hyper Offense Revival interests me because it's based primarily on *supporting* Hyper Offense to make it viable, kind of like creating a Pokemon designed to be a core for Hyper Offense. While there are Dual Screeners they don't seem to go far enough anymore, and I think it would be worthwhile to study the decline of Hyper Offense and what traits a mon would have to have to break Bulky Offense.

Snow Emergency is still something I'd rather personally avoid, but it's quite well presented. In any case I made a case for my personal dislike, we'll see what the voters think.

bugmaniacbob: Would it be fair to say Ferrothorn employs some of what Psychologcial Warfare is going for, given how much it can wall and cause trouble with Leech Seed?

Current Slate:
The Deceiver
Break The Mold 2
Double Team
Snow Emergency
Checkmate
Boost Thief
Psychological Warfare MkII
Decentralizer Revisited
Hyper Offense Revival

This is also a 24 hour warning.

 

[Dragontongue195040]

bugmaniacbob's looks like it would be a whole lot of fun to use. Anyway:


Name: Custom-made offense
General Description: Create a strong attacking Pokemon wih only one viable set; however, this Pokemon uses this set exceptionally well to do great offensive damage to the opponent. (Sort of an offensive version of Wobbufett)
Justification: While we can now see our opponent's entire team, Pokemon like Tyranitar and many others still have several equally dangerous sets, and we must discover what set it is using in order to properly counter it. This CAP would allow us to learn more about the metagame by letting us find out how much of a Pokemon's effectiveness comes from its set and how much comes from its innate characteristics.
Questions To Be Answered:
-Can a Pokemon be effective even if there is absolutely no mystery about what it will do?
-Can a Pokemon truly have no counters?

Explanation: At least in DPP, Wobbufett was almost guaranteed to get at least one KO, regardless of the fact that it could only run one set. This CAP would probably have high attacking stats (or at least one attacking stat) and maybe speed, but not necessarily. The main focus would be the movepool. It would probably be small and designed to fit a specific purpose: defeat the opponents team. However, so we do not create a clone of Wobbufett, I believe this CAP should use attacking moves in my opnion. We would also have to avoid just giving it 200 base attack and speed and making its movepool four 120 BP moves. I think it could be done in a way that uses the set in a specific way that works and is pulled off better by this CAP than by any other Pokemon; however, using this specific set is he only option this CAP has.

will add more when using actual keyboard instead of small laggy ipod keyboard

I LOVE this idea. I'd love to see a pokemon that could actually pull this off successfully. The thing is, if it only has one set, it wouldn't be much fun making it, now would it? Lol. If you could find a way around that, this would definitely be #1 on my list.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Name: The Gambit

General Description: A Pokemon that can employ a variety of means to change the course of a battle in just a few turns, but which can become a severe liability if used at an inopportune moment.

Justification: The best teams in OU have a group of Pokemon working together which, cumulatively, damage and destroy the opponent's team over the course of a few dozen turns. There are few Pokemon that can substantially affect the course of a match in just one or two turns by their very nature or design, and even fewer that are then substantially less useful outside of that context. This is an unexplored niche in the metagame that can teach us a lot about the flow of battles.

Questions To Be Answered:

-What level of support / offense is acceptable before a Pokemon that may only be useful for a few turns in any given game is worth using?

-What kind of metagame shifts would be sparked by the existence of a Pokemon that can severely alter the course of a battle in just a few turns? Would Pokemon that take multiple turns to set up become less popular, for example?

-What is the best way to alter the course of a battle? By grabbing momentum? Setting up hazards? Or just outright KOing key Pokemon?

-What kind of Pokemon will best take advantage of a quick tide-turner? What kind of teammates would be most well-suited to partnering with this CAP?

Explanation: There are multiple ways this concept could go. In making it, I initially envisioned something like Arcanine in UU - a Pokemon that can do severe damage to the opponent through a combination of coverage and attack power, but is limited in the scope of the threat it poses by its weakness to hazards and the fact that all its good attacks cause heavy recoil. Despite the fact that Arcanine will usually only spend a few turns on the battlefield, it can nevertheless do more than enough damage to an opponent's core to justify a slot on a team. Making a Pokemon like that in OU would certainly fit in with this concept.
Another idea that would work is the idea of a suicide spiker, or a Pokemon with Healing Wish, or a Pokemon that uses Final Gambit in a much more efficient way than the current users of these moves...there are a variety of options that we can explore, which I feel is one of the strengths of this concept.

 

[DarkShiftry]

Name: Ultimate Lure
General Description: A Pokemon designed to bring to the field certain threats and get rid of them.
Justification: A lure is a Pokemon designed to bring in another Pokemon that would normally beat it and effectively answer to it with a not really expected move (For example, Fire Blast on a Slowbro to lure in Ferrothorn and roast it), this Pokemon would be able to make a certain threat that under regular conditions would counter it come into the field, but thanks to it's movepool and stats can actually beat them, and aid the rest of the team.
The concept of a lure is very underrated and people don't seem to use them as much, so they are not as studied in the metagame as they could be, this concept allows us to learn about this type of Pokemon, and not only about lures itself, also on counters and checks.
Questions To Be Answered:
-How does a lure work? What are their impact on the metagame?
-Can a Pokemon that would beat its normal checks and/or counters be described as unvincible?
-How can a Pokemon lure in another Pokemon even if it has certain ways to defeat it?
-Does this Pokemon's ability lo lure in a certain threat affect its viability in other subects as sweeping, walling and such?
-What is the list of counters like, if this Pokemon has the ability to defeat them? What would make a counter for this Pokemon?
Explanation: I think the Pokemons this CAP would lure in should be between the top used in OU, just because the point of a lure is to eliminate this threats so other team members can benefit of this, so something that draws out really dangerous stuff like Scizor or Dragonite should be primordial.


English is not my main language, so if anything isnt written correctly please let me know.

 

[Juicebox 001]

Emo Fighter reminds my of Staraptor.

I would just like to comment on this view. I can see where you got the idea that my submission would be too much like a Staraptor but the only ability staraptor can have is intimidate. I was thinking more along the lines of boosting damage. Sure, you can have it learn a couple of recoil moves but Staraptor is not focused around them like my concept was. That is why I was surprised. Anyway good luck to you all and I hope to see you on the other side.

 

[SgtWoodsy]

I would just like to comment on this view. I can see where you got the idea that my submission would be too much like a Staraptor but the only ability staraptor can have is intimidate. I was thinking more along the lines of boosting damage.

Staraptor also has Reckless via the Dream World.

 

[Qwilphish]

Name: Down The Drain

General Description: A Pokemon that is designed to slowly steal the opponents HP and convert to their own.

Justification:
This generation moves such as Giga Drain and Drain Punch got a boost in power and are now viable options on a move set. With the draining of HP with moves like Leech Seed and even, in the most literal sense, Sandstorm with Leftovers, stall can become an even more so threat to any team without a direct counter.

Questions To Be Answered:
-Is the healing from moves such as Drain Punch and Horn Leech enough to be able to be considered as consistent recovery?
-Would a Pokemon that can, in theory, stay alive for the entire match if played correctly be considered too strong if it were to be given an uneven statspread?
-Is the amount of moves and abilities given to drain the opponents HP be enough for an entire concept?
-Can a Pokemon that is devoted around the sucking of HP be used on a team other than stall be viable and have synergy between them?

Explanation:
While I was sleeping, a Drowzee appeared in my dream and I've had nightmares ever since. There are many Pokemon and items that have been released since Gen 4 that have boosted the viability of moves like Dream Eater such as the Big Root as the most obvious answer.
I believe that this concept dives into the question of whether a purely stallish Pokemon can be viable without the use of a consistent recovery move like Chansey's Softboiled or a Skarmory's Roost. Although it is a very straightforward topic, draining the opponent's HP can bring versatility to the metagame that hasn't been brought forward yet.