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Research Week #4: The Sixth Sense
- Thread starter Furai
- Start date
- Status
I'm not actually participating in this research week but I have used Mew before. It's far and far worse than last generation, where it was arguably the best Baton Passer (with a set of something like Rock Polish / Swords Dance / Taunt / Baton Pass, with Taunt blocking any attempts of phazing and status and Rock Polish and Swords Dance boosting for a Groudon / Rayquaza sweep. Unfortunately that is far worse than last generation: Dragon Tail works through Taunt. If you decide to use Substitute to block Dragon Tail you get ruined by Roar. Roar of your own might work to block both, but you'll leave yourself open to status.
Another big thing is Shell Smash. Mew is no longer the best quickpasser in the game, Smeargle and Gorebyss are. Smeargle has Spore and only needs one turn to set up for a devestating sweep, where Mew needs a lot more.
As for Celebi, has anyone tried a Perish Song variant? It seems pretty good on stall teams to me, being the Perish Song user which prevents you from being taken down by last Pokemon setuppers such as Cro-Ogre and Bulk Up Dialga, while also being able to rack up entry hazard damage quite nicely.
Another big thing is Shell Smash. Mew is no longer the best quickpasser in the game, Smeargle and Gorebyss are. Smeargle has Spore and only needs one turn to set up for a devestating sweep, where Mew needs a lot more.
As for Celebi, has anyone tried a Perish Song variant? It seems pretty good on stall teams to me, being the Perish Song user which prevents you from being taken down by last Pokemon setuppers such as Cro-Ogre and Bulk Up Dialga, while also being able to rack up entry hazard damage quite nicely.
After seeing shrang's post about celebi, I've been testing specially defensive celebi with p song / recover / stealth rock / leaf storm. It's very good on rain stall with the proper support.
Jirachi seems like it could be a good partner for arceus-fighting, since it can STOMP its main counter: Mewtwo
Lastly, Mew seems to be pretty underwhelming, judging from the posts in this thread.
i've been using sub / sd / baton pass / seed bomb celebi with a sp.def spread. passes to zekrom / extremekiller. set up a sub on the switch to ferrothorn and then pass to zekrom. or pass from any dragon tail gira-a / lugia to arceus :D.
Team: http://pastebin.com/Fmp4USqD
I was surprisingly pleased with Choice Scarf Jirachi: its typing is really helpful for taking Swords Dance Rayquaza Extremespeed, Mewtwo Psystrike, to capitalise on Dragon-type Pokémon locked in on Outrage. Jirachi's also in the oh-so important base 100 Speed tier, outspeeding +1 Rayquaza, Darkrai, Deoxys-A, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo among others. If that wasn't enough, it has a ton of moves to work with: Iron Head for flinching, Ice Punch for Dragons, Fire Punch for Steels (mostly Ferrothorn), U-turn to keep the momentum on your side, and even Trick to hamper stall. Its low base 100 Attack by Ubers standards can be a bit off-putting, but its qualities more than make up for that.
Pokemon Researched: Celebi - Gold Class Achieved
Overview:
When I first tested Celebi, I was of the opinion that it was terrible. This was because there were other grass types such as Shaymin-S, Grass Arceus, and Ferrothorn which arguably outclassed it in many roles such as sub-seeding, walling, hazards, etc. This was especially true as I ran a sun team at first, a poor choice on my part. After some battles with the sun team where Celebi was next to useless, I decided to switch to Rain-Stall.
Surprisingly, Celebi went beyond my expectations as it fulfilled a certain niche. For one, Celebi has Recover and a 2X weakness to fire rather than Ferrothorn’s 4X weakness, allowing it to wall certain Palkia sets much better. Natural Cure was very useful in absorbing status. Celebi also thunder-waved some common leads such as Darkrai, crippling them to support my team. By using Celebi, a different Arceus form rather than Grass Arceus was used. Overall, Celebi though not the greatest is viable in Ubers though it requires a team that takes advantage of its strengths.
Original Overview:
Set:
My Celebi set for both Sun and Rain-Stall teams:
Celebi @ Lum Berry
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 220 SDef / 16 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
As of yet I have not tried Baton Pass Celebi. I deliberately tested a Specially Defensive Lead Set to see if it was viable.
Ranking:
I have achieved Gold Class with the Rain-Stall team. NOTE: Will update ranking if it gets higher.
I have achieved Bronze Class with the Sun team. NOTE: Peak was higher for this team, forgot to take the rank.
Pastebin:
Replays/Logs:
Overview:
When I first tested Celebi, I was of the opinion that it was terrible. This was because there were other grass types such as Shaymin-S, Grass Arceus, and Ferrothorn which arguably outclassed it in many roles such as sub-seeding, walling, hazards, etc. This was especially true as I ran a sun team at first, a poor choice on my part. After some battles with the sun team where Celebi was next to useless, I decided to switch to Rain-Stall.
Surprisingly, Celebi went beyond my expectations as it fulfilled a certain niche. For one, Celebi has Recover and a 2X weakness to fire rather than Ferrothorn’s 4X weakness, allowing it to wall certain Palkia sets much better. Natural Cure was very useful in absorbing status. Celebi also thunder-waved some common leads such as Darkrai, crippling them to support my team. By using Celebi, a different Arceus form rather than Grass Arceus was used. Overall, Celebi though not the greatest is viable in Ubers though it requires a team that takes advantage of its strengths.
Original Overview:
It sucks. Badly. Waste of a team member. Use Ferrothorn instead if you are not using Baton Pass. Even then, why not use some other Pokémon like Smeargle for Baton Passing?
I am not exactly pleased with the current performance of Celebi. Although I have attained Bronze Class (With the use of a sun team), Celebi was mostly dead weight. At times, it did turn out a bit useful such as somewhat walling certain Palkia sets under rain (Also under sun if it has no Fire Blast) and thunder-waving some common leads such as Darkrai. Nonetheless, I felt like I was playing with five rather than six team members most of the time. Natural Cure was pretty useful though.
I am not exactly pleased with the current performance of Celebi. Although I have attained Bronze Class (With the use of a sun team), Celebi was mostly dead weight. At times, it did turn out a bit useful such as somewhat walling certain Palkia sets under rain (Also under sun if it has no Fire Blast) and thunder-waving some common leads such as Darkrai. Nonetheless, I felt like I was playing with five rather than six team members most of the time. Natural Cure was pretty useful though.
Set:
My Celebi set for both Sun and Rain-Stall teams:
Celebi @ Lum Berry
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 220 SDef / 16 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
As of yet I have not tried Baton Pass Celebi. I deliberately tested a Specially Defensive Lead Set to see if it was viable.
Ranking:
I have achieved Gold Class with the Rain-Stall team. NOTE: Will update ranking if it gets higher.
I have achieved Bronze Class with the Sun team. NOTE: Peak was higher for this team, forgot to take the rank.
Pastebin:
Rain-Stall team that achieved Gold Class: http://pastebin.com/sAYByfpi
Sun team that achieved Bronze Class: http://pastebin.com/heAKDAXv
NOTE: Xatu and Specially Defensive Forretress are interchangeable on the Sun team.
Sun team that achieved Bronze Class: http://pastebin.com/heAKDAXv
NOTE: Xatu and Specially Defensive Forretress are interchangeable on the Sun team.
Replays/Logs:
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-BOOM-ITS-MDK-vs-Rising-Onion--2012-05-12-private702264630 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi took out Ground Arceus, paralyzed Scarfed Kyogre, and set up Stealth Rock.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Great-Sage-vs-Rising-Onion--2012-05-12-private1376103185 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi set up Stealth Rock, helped "stall" a bit, and won me the game by breaking Lugia's substitute.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Rising-Onion-vs-Woah-Dude--2012-05-11-private436398762 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi paralyzed Darkrai, Dialga, and Kyogre, set up Stealth Rock, walled Dialga, and knocked out Darkrai and Kyogre.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Rising-Weed-vs-A-Wild-IRS-Agent--2012-05-01-private2087672120 - Using Sun Team - Note: Testing on PO with a different alt.
- Celebi paralyzed Ferrothorn (Actually bad), took hits from Mono-Attacker Kyogre, and damaged Extreme Killer Arceus.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Rising-Onion-vs-iNLoVeWiThKeNeShA--2012-05-12-private495871992 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi set up Stealth Rock. It also walled, paralyzed, and knocked out Palkia.
More will be added possibly if time permits.
- Celebi took out Ground Arceus, paralyzed Scarfed Kyogre, and set up Stealth Rock.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Great-Sage-vs-Rising-Onion--2012-05-12-private1376103185 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi set up Stealth Rock, helped "stall" a bit, and won me the game by breaking Lugia's substitute.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Rising-Onion-vs-Woah-Dude--2012-05-11-private436398762 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi paralyzed Darkrai, Dialga, and Kyogre, set up Stealth Rock, walled Dialga, and knocked out Darkrai and Kyogre.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Rising-Weed-vs-A-Wild-IRS-Agent--2012-05-01-private2087672120 - Using Sun Team - Note: Testing on PO with a different alt.
- Celebi paralyzed Ferrothorn (Actually bad), took hits from Mono-Attacker Kyogre, and damaged Extreme Killer Arceus.
http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Rising-Onion-vs-iNLoVeWiThKeNeShA--2012-05-12-private495871992 - Using Rain-Stall Team
- Celebi set up Stealth Rock. It also walled, paralyzed, and knocked out Palkia.
More will be added possibly if time permits.
Final Remarks
Celebi is a decent pokemon to use in Ubers providing you give it proper support.
Conclusion:
Jirachi is for noobs, :naughty:
Celebi is a boss,
And Mew? It's forever alone.
Celebi is a decent pokemon to use in Ubers providing you give it proper support.
Conclusion:
Jirachi is for noobs, :naughty:
Celebi is a boss,
And Mew? It's forever alone.
looks like fun :D
ill be using mew
alt: doctorgenius
EDIT
im done
team: http://pastebin.com/EisNEQC2
Originally, Mew was to be used as a fighting arceus counter. I never once ran into one :\, he is still a decent stall breaker and lead though.
I'll raise my rank if I have enough time/can be bothered
EDIT2
nvm just realised this is the last day haha
ill be using mew
alt: doctorgenius
EDIT
im done
team: http://pastebin.com/EisNEQC2
Originally, Mew was to be used as a fighting arceus counter. I never once ran into one :\, he is still a decent stall breaker and lead though.
I'll raise my rank if I have enough time/can be bothered
EDIT2
nvm just realised this is the last day haha
- Status