Naruto (Spoilers ITT)

[Ninahaza]

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This thread is going to do severe damage to my goal of not hitting 1k posts this year, believe it!

Opening note

This has to be the thread i've gone back and forth the most about wanting to create. I've always wanted a Naruto thread, and some recent threads just made it unbearable for me to not make this thread. I Just couldnt hold out any longer, please forgive me.

Naruto, in the anime world, is like World of Warcraft in the gaming world. WoW was the game that everyone had heard of, it did not matter if you played it or even if you were a gamer, when the name "world of Warcraft" was dropped in a conversation, people knew or at least had an idea what that was. Naruto is much the same, its one of the "big name animes", and as a giant in the anime world, you see it everywhere that there's something anime related going on.

Naruto is a show(anime) that has been running for over 12 years now, and almost everyone, whether they actually follow it or not, have heard of Naruto. Personally, My favorite Anime is FullMetal Alchemist, and Avatar the last airbender ranks high on my list, definitley in top 4, but Naruto is closer to my heart, and is more loved. It's weird to say that i love it that much and just not give Naruto the title of my favorite anime, but that's just how it is, even i don't get why i am this way about it.
I have been following the naruto anime and reading the manga long enough that i cannot even pin point when i started to. I know this is going to sound odd, but i have actually found, and taken a lot of inspiration from Naruto Uzumaki, the character himself. I think that's part of the reason why the anime has a special place in my heart.

"Discussion no-Jutsu": (God, i know right? terrible, haha)
The anime is at an interesting place right now, and it gives a lot to chat about. i think there's enough discussion to go around even if the show wasn't so intense right now. But just to provide some sort of direction at the beginning, i'll post a few things i think would be great to discuss about, or that i myself would just love to read about from the smogon users.

Current Events: (if it becomes a problem, use "spoiler" tags)
There's a lot to talk about just under this topic. i mean, there's a freaken WAR GOING ON FFS. What do you think Itachi will do? Do you think Kabuto is out of the game(war) now? what will ultimately happen to him do you think? did you feel anything for him after his story/flashbacks?

Naruto, kakashi, Gai, and the 8-tails vs tobi. whats up in this bitch? will Sasuke JOIN IN DO YOU THINK?

And finally, madara vs the 5 kages, if you read the latest manga, you'll know that not only is shit about to get real, its about to be splattered all over the bathroom wall. what do you think will happen? what do you hope will happen? do you see any deaths coming from the 5 kages?

Your favorite characters: (lets limit it to 3 max, so your top 3)
omg, tell me PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.
no but seriously, make sure to include your reasons why. This will perhaps be what i am looking forward to reading the most. Naruto does an excellent job at developing the characters. it doesn't just focus on Naruto himself, and over the last 12 years of the show, a lot of characters have been introduced and developed.

I will include my favorites in my response post, not the OP.

Any real Fan has thought about this:

i will say which side i am on in my post

So i am curious, which side you are on...on this matter. now, shipping is nothing new in the anime world, but this is more than that, this takes it to a new level.

Naruhina:

or

narusaku:

so tell me, and don't forget to explain why. its always more fun when people give their reasoning behind things.

BUT PLEASE DONT RESTRICT YOURSELF TO THE ABOVE
feel free to share which are your favorite couples in the anime, and also fee free to do some shipping of your own :).

so yeah, that should get things started, get a nice chat going. Though i am sure, and expecting, this will go its own direction. Dont feel like you only have to stick to the suggestions above. This is a discussion about everything naruto

You can talk about anything thats on your mind, or that has bothered you. you can talk about things like who do you think tobi is? and "what will happen to sasuke?". will he help naruto? help tobi? or betray Tobi, but stick with his plans for konoha? you know, work for himself and continue to be emo.

what about that scroll that was found in orochimaru's secret lab/library place or whatever a few chapters back?

secrets scrolls and labs, love it.

 

[vonFiedler]

I need to get caught up some time, I prefer Naruto in binges.

But I seriously fucking love Naruto. The first two episodes sold me and they are probably the two worst non-filler episodes. Naruto was me as a kid, and in Shippuden he's been turning into me growing up. There's just a ton of good character development too, and great flavor to all super powers in the show.

Shipping is always a pretty dumb practice. It's just another example of using characters as projections and acquaintances instead of tools. I'll admit the writer definitely wavers between Hinata and Sakura, which is pretty annoying given that after everything it was Hinata's "death" that caused him crank his fox tails up to 11. Also Sakura fans are a bit rapey "Naruto always gets what he wants, that is his ninja way".

 

[Tobes]

please for the love of god remove believe it from the title

anyway

I think Naruto takes a lot of unnecessary shit. Yes, it does have its weak points, and those weak points are often glaring, but it also has plenty of strengths. Some very interesting characters and interactions, some great fight scenes, and a surprising number of touching moments. Not the greatest series, but it can carry its weight.

Also allow me to go on a completely unrelated and random tangent and note that the way Kishimoto shaded the animated Gedo statue's light was very reminiscent of how Miyazaki shaded Ohma's light.

Waits for three people to go "oh he's right" while the rest scratch their heads in bafflement.

Also I'm personally betting that Tobi is Madara's brother.

 

[Ninahaza]

please for the love of god remove believe it from the title

anyway

I think Naruto takes a lot of unnecessary shit. Yes, it does have its weak points, and those weak points are often glaring, but it also has plenty of strengths. Some very interesting characters and interactions, some great fight scenes, and a surprising number of touching moments. Not the greatest series, but it can carry its weight.

Also allow me to go on a completely unrelated and random tangent and note that the way Kishimoto shaded the animated Gedo statue's light was very reminiscent of how Miyazaki shaded Ohma's light.

haha, its there as a joke from the good ol days. this is pretty much the reaction i expected (same goes for the "discussion no jutsu" joke). it wont last long dont worry

 

[vonFiedler]

Naruto is the best shonen, there's really no good argument otherwise. It has all of shonen's flaws, but it has the best character development and generally fights are resolved through clever means. Instead of just telling us that characters are all powerful and talented, it builds up situations where the characters triumph through very smart tactics. It's always a rare case of child characters being child characters instead of grown-ups in kid bodies (or should I say grown-ups in grown-up bodies that we have to be told are 14 in anime's case).

 

[mattj]

I started watching the anime in Japanese on Hulu waaaaaaaaaay back when they first put it on. I was freaking hooked. Even though I couldn't read Japanese, the voice acting was so freaking emotional and spot on, the story was great and the action was over the top. I watched around the first 100 episodes, then they dumped another 100 episodes. I skipped to the last episode they had (200 something??) just to take a peek (terriblie, horrible idea). What I found was that all of the characters I'd followed so closely were all completely different and I didn't understand anything that was going on.

For whatever reason, that, coupled with just how many episodes there were at that time, just gave me this sense of "... dang... do i really want to keep up with this?"

I stopped watching Naruto that day.

My question for those of you who got over that 100ish episode hump is, should I pick it back up? Is it worth it? I've watched 2 of the movies on Netflix and they were spot on. But I don't know, i just don't know yet if the anime is worth getting back into again. I was really, really hooked there at first, but when I saw that everything had changed, idunno, it just really turned me off.

 

[vonFiedler]

If you watched episode 200 you watched a filler episode. Naruto is kind of infamous for about a year's worth of awful filler starting at episode 136. I don't think it's a huge leap in conjecture to say that the filler got Naruto canceled on Cartoon Network, which led to Toonami getting canceled. Don't watch any of that, just pick up where you left off, watch up to 135, then start Shippuden.

 

[Darkaxis]

I stopped watching Shippuden once the before-war fillers started going out. I don't know how good is it now, but since Ninhaza says it's ''FUCKING AMAZING'' I'll watch it. Any suggestions where I should pick it up from?


Oh yeah top 3 characters!

1. Shikamaru

He kind of resembles me. Lazy as fuck, but with a great intellect, and great strategist. I like how he is so swell even when the going get's tough.

Spoilers

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2. Jiraiya.

My heart broke when he died. No seriosuly like a tear came up in my eye as soon as Pein killed him. ;-; Such a great, funny charcter.

3. Kakashi.

He can create fuckin lighting out of his hands. That's all. Also the way Naruto cares about his sensei, is kinda way I envison mine, respect, and a good pun every now and then.

 

[v]

If you think Naruto is the best shounen read One Piece

 

[Furosuto]

I don't read much Naruto, but it's actually not as bad as some people flame it to be. Not my favourite manga out of all of them (bleach forever), but it's still pretty cool. Mainly the only reason I read some of it is to see Kiba and Killer Bee in action.

 

[TheValkyries]

I love Naruto, and I'm up late every Tuesday night waiting for the new release of the Manga, which I caught up on from 1 to 550 in about three days with 4 hours of sleep and 4 two liter bottles of Mountain Dew. I love all of the characters and the fights are fantastically brilliant in that they are won by intelligence and will power over just pure strength.

I don't watch the Anime so I have no idea what stage it's at.

Current Events:
With the War, I don't think the Kage's are gonna die considering the Edo Tensei was just released, so Madara will probably go away now. I could've sworn the Tsuchikage was gonna die, but I guess he's gonna be just fine. It's a great part about Naruto that deaths aren't just thrown around willy nilly, and are always highly serious and grave events. I'm still waiting to go back to the Naruto Tobi fight, because Naruto's fights are always great, but I'm worried about what's going to happen, because someone could very easily die there.

I also feel that the Sasuke Zombie Itachi fight with Kabuto went longer than it should've but I think it concluded well. And by well, I mean the end was crap but it left the character's in very different places then where they were going into it, and that's great.


Favorite Characters:
Hinata: Shy person, who greatly values perseverance, hard-work, and will-power. Literally this is my exact personality. Like, the moment Hinata came on screen and her character was described I would always just connect with her. Which is weird BECAUSE I NEVER DO THAT WITH ANY SHOW. EVER. I'm literally emotionally attached to her character, as weird/childish/stupid as that sounds.

Shikamaru: His struggles with leadership are always interesting, and his tactical prowess is immensely entertaining whenever he fights. He's just great all around.

Gaara: A) He's a complete motherfucking badass.
B) He's had a completely shitty life and I feel bad for him
C) He has a villian who became hero character arc via the power friendship WHICH IS SO GODDAMN CHEESY THAT I LOVE IT.

Those are my top three. After that Naruto is obvious, and I love Killer Bee because he's hilarious, and also Kurama for the lulz. Tobi when he was a troll, not an evil overlord was brilliant. All of the characters are great actually, but these are just my favorite.


Shipping:
I never ship. As long as the relationship is well written, I'm good with it, and I don't care who the main character ends up with. That being said, for reasons stated above, I ship a pair of characters in Naruto. I can't stop myself. In honesty, it's not even that I care about who Naruto end's up with...

Hide

I only care who Hinata ends up with.

I honestly don't know what I'd do or say if it's any other way. I'm just so emotionally attached to this idea that I can't see any other reality being remotely possible.



/nerd

 

[Ninahaza]

Let's please use hide tags and say spoilers or something when we talk about major events, like what Darkaxis says about Jiraya. Please keep in mind that some people are not as far as you are, don't ruin it for them

Darkaxis, please make the changes

 

[Darkaxis]

Done. Shipping for me it's Hinata and Naruto forever. Sakura can go suck Sasuke's emo dick.

 

[TheFourthChaser]

If you think Naruto is the best shounen read One Piece

I cannot agree more, it has better... everything.

Jiraiya, Itachi, Shikamura, and Rock Lee were the interesting characters. The perverted master, the darker older brother, the lazy genius, the freakin ninja who can only fight physically, how awesome right? Too bad Jiraiya and Itachi won't be getting anymore real time in, Rock Lee hasn't had a fight since before time skip, and Shikamura just won't be shown enough. Sasuke was interesting before time skip but now he's a little emo bitch who I wish was just not shown. Honestly I think that the chapters where Sasuke and Naruto aren't shown are better, they always have some kind of irrelevant flashback or talk.

 

[smashlloyd20]

Just saying right now that Kabuto is definitely not done. He was built up as far too important as an antagonist to just be dead once

Hide

a dead guy

looks at him.

Hide

Itachi

did his job, and I really liked the fight. But like he said, the new generation has to ultimately deal with Kabuto in some way or another.

 

[King Serperior]

1). It's Naruto + Hinata.

2). Here are my top 3 characters:

A). Shikamaru
B). Kakishi
C). Toby (Yes Toby and not the other guy in the mask). His antics are awesome!!

 

[Jebus McAzn]

If you think Naruto is the best shounen read One Piece

god i don't even know what's going on with one piece anymore
it just seems all over the place and it's basically just halfway done

naruto is so much more cohesive and progresses faster and cleaner than OP, although OP does have some pretty awesome fight sequences

anyway personally i'm just waiting for the naruto/sasuke fight but everything seems to be drawing to an inevitable close with the most recent chapter

 

[Pernicious]

i really fucking love naruto, it's possible i read it when i was too young and impressionable but it's probably elicited the most emotion out of me out of any manga/anime i've read (i don't really watch the anime though, mostly out of laziness and liking listening to music while reading).

i could go on forever but i won't. basically, the interpersonal relationships among the characters are really interesting and well-defined, naruto and sasuke have such an emotionally fraught and intense relationship and it makes absolutely no sense but also perfect sense in the way that they love and hate and relate to one another. the fight scenes are (in my opinion) near-masterpieces of drama and fuck it all i like the jutsus+summonings+cool shit going down. it's also an incredibly touching shounen in the way that it doesn't simply throw fighting and death at the reader -- you feel like principles are on the line.

i haven't read the most recent 20 chapters or so so i can't comment on current events but basically.

1. neither pair is realistically likely to happen and wouldn't make sense considering the characters and their relationships. it's possible naruto could end up with hinata but i don't realistically see it as being an important plot point in his development and fsr their relationship doesn't make sense to me. i wouldn't be upset if it came to pass but i think rampantly shipping it kinda detracts from the major arcs + themes of the series. as for naruto and sakura, i don't feel like that would make sense given their relationship and the snow scene (scene where sakura

Hide

tried to (falsely) confess her love to naruto in order to bolster his spirits/stop him from going after sasuke

) ... it's odd to say but i think they understand each other too well in order to have a serious relationship.

as for other pairs, shikamaru and temari would be a nice couple. they fit rather well together.

2. naruto, shikamaru, kakashi. it's odd for me to say that i like the "main" character most of all but I honestly do at this point -- despite his pigheadedness and early arrogance the depth of his emotional journey is inspiring and the massive burden of caring he places on himself is really terrible to behold (the scene where he started hyperventilating in the land of iron after worrying about sasuke was really touching imo -- some people may see it as overdramatized but i tend to disagree, i understand where that's coming from though). shikamaru is of course amazing and a really interesting + complex "slacker with a heart of gold" type guy. and of course kakashi -- the moment where he

Hide

basically sacrificed his life (twice) during the pein invasion to protect the townspeople

showed his true mettle in a inspiring way. a real leader.

as for one piece...i've really made a concerted effort to read and appreciate it (i had finished everything up till the newest release around 2 months ago). in a lot of ways it's very complex but in my opinion it's a bit sprawling and it's hard to latch onto the emotion. that said there are some really excellent parts, like

Hide

when bellemere elected to die at the hands of arlong so her children could be proud of being her daughters

and

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ace's death

were incredibly heartwrenching and a testament to how great shounen can really get.

 

[Ninahaza]

Guess i'll start responding to some of the questions in the OP.

My top 3 favorite characters

For a anime i've followed for so long, my top 3 favorite characters are quite simple and probably wont surprise anyone, but i have my reasons for picking them, and i'll lay them out. I wont rank them, this is in no particular order.

Rock lee:

Rock lee is a character i fell in love with fast. i did not have to wait for much character development, and my feelings have not changed over the years.
I think what attracted me most to this character was his determination, his will power. I dont think i've seen anyone else work so hard. His mental toughness baffles me; he takes the phrase "mind over matter" to a level which the rest of us can only dream of. Rock lee could run for a week straight, despite knowing it will fuck his legs up and put him in crutches for a period of time afterwards. Rock lee is the type that, once he decides to achieve something, he will give his all and fight for it. he will fight until the last breath leaves his body, and let me tell you, he will beat you. His disadvantage of only being able to use Taijutsu as a ninja became the greatest testament to his achievements and the great ninja he grew up to become, and he isn't even done yet lol.

i know its just an anime, but Whenever i see Rock lee, i see a representation of one thing, and that is: You only need the two hands that were given to you to achieve what you want in life. Some people may be born better, stronger and more skilled, but that just means you'll have to work harder for what you want than some people in this world, and if you are willing to put in that hard work, despite how tremendous it may be, you can achieve and even surpass those other guys. The only person that dictates what you can and cannot achieve is you. How hard you are willing to work for whatever you want in life.


Naruto:

Yes, naruto himself, haha. Just like rock lee, it was Naruto's will power and determination that attracted me the most to him (lol, do you see a trend here?). What i love about naruto is his ability to never back down from any fight or situation, even if he was to be facing an undefeatable GOD-LIKE Ninja. he is stubborn, head strong and would lay his life down without hesitation, even for someone he just met, literally (i say this going off some of the movies and episodes/fillers i've seen). If i were to be a weak, poor soul being attacked by some douche bag ninja, there wouldn't be anyone else i'd want in my corner to save me. I think this is part of the reason why he is able to change people's hearts and have such a profound impact on those that he comes across. His determination is only outweighed by his kindness, his acceptance of others without being judgmental. I'm sure if you met Naruto(i know its just anime), you would never forget him for as long as you lived. he is just one of those people, and i think i strive to be like him. i want to have the kind of heart he has, to have such will power and determination, but also to never let kindness leave your heart, and to be able to balance it all with humility.

also this isn't something they focus on much, but damn, he is a pretty smart guy. haha

Jiraiya:

WARNING: SPOILERS.
Jiraiya is just a great character over all. he is funny, serious and incredible strong, no surprise as he is one of the 3 legendary sannin. Also in Jiraiya we have a connection between pain, the 4th hokage and naruto among others. I'm trying to pin point what exactly makes me like him so much, but i'm having a hard time. Maybe it is because he was such a great father figure to naruto (among others, again. he was just so great). I think there isnt one or two significant reasons i could point to and use to explain why Jiraiya is among my top 3. I think what it is, is that, instead of a few significant reasons, there are simply many, many small reasons that, when added up, come to be great and wonderful enough for him to have won me over and made the list.

The day that Jiraiya died, i was dealt a heavy blow. the sadness was immense. his death is perhaps one of the biggest and hardest to have ever hit me as far as anime, TV shows, books, and movies go.

Sakura vs Hinata + thoughts on Naruto shipping

I've never been big on shipping in general. If a love story is well written and implemented into the anime, i'll go with it and be satisfied. I don't usually go looking for romance where its not and make my own couples or wish couple.

as far as Naruto goes, i am 100% Naruto and hinata, and i think that is what will happen in the end. I think if naruto doesnt end up with Hinata, many, MANY fans will flip tables and commit heinous acts. Based on what has happened so far, many people would feel misled if Naruto and sakura happened instead of naruto and Hinata (or if Naruto+ Hinata did not happen in general)

Also I'm personally betting that Tobi is Madara's brother.

Thats interesting Tobes, i havent heard that one yet. I've heard other theories such as: Tobi is a zetsu ( i think it was black zetsu), and that Tobi is the main tailed beast itself. The second theory ties into why he was colleting all the tailed beasts. both the theories i've given sound stupid unless you read the original post detailing each theory, But even then it still didnt convince me.

i am with you howver, i think he is going to be an uchiha from the past..........haha, that's as far as I've gotten. I'll have to complete my own theory by the time we start heavily getting into current events taking place right now.

also haha, anyone remember this? i couldnt find one in english, but that moment stood out on its own without english translation.

 

[CommanderTow]

All of the people here who think Naruto is by far one of the best animes out there, you should probably go check out Full Metal Alchemist, Steins Gate, Code Geass, etc.

 

[vonFiedler]

I said shonen and the OP said Full Metal Alchemist was his favorite anime. I mean Naruto doesn't hold a stick to the pure glory of G Gundam but what does?

 

[Shinryu]

I only read the manga (though I'll give the fan subbed anime a try if a good fight comes along), so most of my stuff would be in spoiler tags to likely not butthurt people who can't avert their eyes (which I'm too lazy to do). So I'll just go off generalities.

Suffice to say though, Itachi did his part well, though what's to stop Kabuto from re-initiating the technique again is beyond me; maybe Sasuke will barbeque him. Regardless, there's now only 2 major fights left to do; finish up Tobi/Naruto, then move onto the long-awaiting Naruto/Sasuke, in which I think Naruto is going to tear him a new hole personally. I mean, sure Sasuke has the eternal eyes, but Naruto now has full control over his tailed beast form as well as sage mode to even fall back on. Sasuke is fucked pretty much. I think they put way too much use into Susano personally, it went from being a defensive technique with some offensive capabilities into pretty much the only Uchiha fallback now; if something moves, Susano it. I personally wish they'd get back more into the fire jutsu.

As for Tobi, I'm more in the theory that he's a split soul (somehow) from the original Madara, much as how invisible man could use the one technique to split himself, though obviously in Tobi/Madara's case, it would be done differently, perhaps some yet to be named eye technique.

 

[smashlloyd20]

I only read the manga (though I'll give the fan subbed anime a try if a good fight comes along), so most of my stuff would be in spoiler tags to likely not butthurt people who can't avert their eyes (which I'm too lazy to do). So I'll just go off generalities.

Suffice to say though, Itachi did his part well, though what's to stop Kabuto from re-initiating the technique again is beyond me; maybe Sasuke will barbeque him. Regardless, there's now only 2 major fights left to do; finish up Tobi/Naruto, then move onto the long-awaiting Naruto/Sasuke, in which I think Naruto is going to tear him a new hole personally. I mean, sure Sasuke has the eternal eyes, but Naruto now has full control over his tailed beast form as well as sage mode to even fall back on. Sasuke is fucked pretty much. I think they put way too much use into Susano personally, it went from being a defensive technique with some offensive capabilities into pretty much the only Uchiha fallback now; if something moves, Susano it. I personally wish they'd get back more into the fire jutsu.

As for Tobi, I'm more in the theory that he's a split soul (somehow) from the original Madara, much as how invisible man could use the one technique to split himself, though obviously in Tobi/Madara's case, it would be done differently, perhaps some yet to be named eye technique.

I'm just gonna put this whole damn thing in hide tags...

Hide

I don't think Kabuto can do the edo tensei again with the same people atm...iirc it needs a part of the dead person or something in order to perform and I don't think he just has those available...especially with Sasuke breathing down his neck.

What about Madara/Kages as far as major fights go? Yeah the edo tensei got released but something makes me feel like Madara is somehow going to stay and fight. Also I agree that Susanoo is getting kind of overdone by now...but Sasuke isn't anywhere near as weak against Naruto as you make him out to be. Right now he is, but I get the feeling that soon Sasuke is going to learn the broken ass complete Susanoo, as well as one of the Izana_i jutsus; meanwhile, Naruto probably has just about everything he's going to get imo.

 

[Shinryu]

I'm just gonna put this whole damn thing in hide tags...

Hide

I don't think Kabuto can do the edo tensei again with the same people atm...iirc it needs a part of the dead person or something in order to perform and I don't think he just has those available...especially with Sasuke breathing down his neck.

What about Madara/Kages as far as major fights go? Yeah the edo tensei got released but something makes me feel like Madara is somehow going to stay and fight. Also I agree that Susanoo is getting kind of overdone by now...but Sasuke isn't anywhere near as weak against Naruto as you make him out to be. Right now he is, but I get the feeling that soon Sasuke is going to learn the broken ass complete Susanoo, as well as one of the Izana_i jutsus; meanwhile, Naruto probably has just about everything he's going to get imo.

You bring up a point about the bodies and needing some fresh ones, but considering he's still in Sage mode, it can't seriously be that hard to flee and find some, as he was doing a respectable job of fighting the both of them in the first place. Or who knows, maybe he'll turn...well not good, maybe less evil? Who knows what full effects of that Izanami were...

Personally I think Sasuke is more hype than anything, if he wasn't the token bad boy pretty boy, wish he would have died off long ago. His whole story is becoming one big broken record of "I wanna kill and have my revenge", despite Itachi making it pretty clear that's not what he wants him to do. I mean, sure he has the eternal sharingan, but consider he sucks at genjutsu (which wouldn't work much on Naruto as a person in control of their tail beast is essentially immune to it) and really has nothing going for him besides the whole chidori thing and a pretty tired use of susano now, I don't see him competing even if he can somehow summon the giant one Madara was; now if he can evolve his eyes further to become the rinnengan, well then that's a different story as the whole chakra absorption aspect is fairly broken, along with the giant meteor summoning.

 

[TheValkyries]

I think whatever Suigets found in Orichimaru's labs (Panel in OP) is going to be a huge easy power up to Sasuke that'll make the Sasuke Naruto a little more even. As it stands, I don't think much can beat Naruto outside of Tobi's ability to simply be a troll and dodge everything with Time-Space Jutsu.