Manaphy uber?

[evolutia]

Manaphy is my favorite pokemon of the (Little Legendary) class. Regardless of how much I like Manaphy I can see how 101 Subs + Tail Glow could be a little hard to handle as well as it using Hydrorest raising it's lastablity.

EDIT: The 101 Sub Manaphy kinda reminds me of the Sub/CM/Thunderbolt/Psychic Jirachi in ADV except better. However like that Jirachi set you can only bring it in so often because it has no form of recovery with the set.

 

[Forsety]

Also I don't entirely think Jirachi should be left out of this conversation. As it stands its faster than Togekiss with the equally haxy trait and a typing that makes the large majority of the game cry.

Celebi is always up for debate but I'm still of opinion it edges towards 00ber's, it is still by far the most near unkillable cleric/support as it gets in, does its thing and gets out faster than you can whip out your counter plus packs an impressive arsenal of moves.

Shaymin however I can completely agree on letting into standards, its movepool is just too....pitiful to be considered as anything more than Bellosom on steroids.

In fact its stats make it more or less comparable to a faster Meganium.

I think Bellosom still has the better moves too...since it actually has something it can use with Swords Dance....

 

[Luck]

Counters for Manaphy

Basically you are looking stuff that can Survive one tail glow surf,ice beam,Grass or Knot then is a threat to ohko it or take 2 tail glowed surf,ice beam,grass knots in row and ohko with a move.

Celebi,Shaymin,Raikou,Ludicolo,Meganium.Celebi and Shaymin are the same speed as Manaphy so unless you are running cs set you could be in trouble.Meganuim barely survives the the second icebeam.Raikou will probaly run into Manaphy best friend Electivire.The only true counter i can see Ludicolo who loves the rain just as much Manaphy.

They are many situational counters for Manaphy basically blissey or cresselia t-wave it,they switch in counter or sacrifice a pokemon and hit it hard with special attacker.You could run some focus sash sets for Manaphy to i guess too.Like certain other D/P poke who hit every hard and has very few really counters and was suppose to bring the end of pokemon as we know it,Manaphy will need alot of testing in the metagame itself before banned it.

 

[evolutia]

Well I think another argument is, what can Manaphy come in on and have a set up turn?. It doesn't have the resistances that Jirachi has. (Regarding the subbing set of course.)

 

[gengod]

The subbing set wont be that common it doesn't beat much that the regular tail glow user doesn't
the only benefit i see from it is that it only allows it to not be statused by blissey and similar pokemon

 

[Glen ^^]

Of course you must sustain some damage while dealing with Manaphy, but he's not invencible like a Mewtwo is. He always has the same sets, so you can easily know what he's gonna do. Also, Energy Ball is there for this, just don't use Grass Knot on eveything that learns it.
If you want to counter everything in this game without barely taking damage, I think you should go play Advance.

 

[Synre]

This topic is a pretty good example of why the meaningful version of this debate is happening in areas with restricted posting I think!





I don't have a lot to add here since I posted in the aforementioned other topics and chaos c/ped the meaningful part of the invisible one of those, but frankly I'd be stunned if Manaphy doesn't end up in the uber tier.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Everybody, raise your Internet hand if you will let Manaphy Tail Glow up!!!



Yeah, I didn't think so. Manaphy is another one of those Pokemon that suffer from "4 moveslot syndrome".

Manaphy
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
@ Leftovers/Damp Rock


Maybe next generation, eh? But as it stands, Manaphy cannot do everything it can at once. That's right, no 6 moveslots. It's defenses are also worse then that of Suicune, who was deemed to be much worse this generation due to no instant healing move. Now who does this remind me of? Hmmm.

If your using Rain/Rest/Tail Glow, your only leaving room for one attacking move, which could easily be resisted, not to mention that this requires a bit of setup. So cross that off.

After that, it seems you only have two options left. Rain/Rest/Surf and Ice Beam or Grass Knot is one. Bulky, but not likely to kill anything.

Tail Glow/Surf/IB/Grass Knot could make for a good sweeper, but paralysis/sleep+hard hitter could knock you out of the ring.

 

[Mr.E]

Well, Synre, I can't post on that one so... ;(

Manaphy does not have to use Rain Dance itself to take advantage of Hydration. Rain Dance lasts 8 turns with a Damp Rock, so you can easily set it up with any number of other pokemon, taking a turn or two after that before switching out to Manaphy, and then still having 4-5 turns of Rain Dance for souped-up Surfs and Hydration abuse; T-Tar/Hippowdon are nothing to Rain Dance teams, so it's not like they're a huge threat to the strategy in general.

 

[Firestorm]

I don't see Tail Glow making Manaphy Uber.... How's it different from any other relatively fast Pokemon getting Swords Dance or Nasty Plot? 100 Base Speed is "borderline" sweeper after all. 100 Base usually needs a speed boost to sweep more effectively. Jolly CB Garchomp Outrage would likely hurt Manaphy. Or a Starmie's/Jolteon's TBolt. Choice Scarf Pokemon...

Rest + Dehydration is bullshit though >_>

 

[Isotope]

This topic is a pretty good example of why the meaningful version of this debate is happening in areas with restricted posting I think!





I don't have a lot to add here since I posted in the aforementioned other topics and chaos c/ped the meaningful part of the invisible one of those, but frankly I'd be stunned if Manaphy doesn't end up in the uber tier.

Thank you for posting for no other reason than to inform us that we are ignorant and that you the almight Synre got to post in the GODLY ELITE SECRET THREAD OF DOOM. We all think you are so l337 now and yearn to sit at the feet of the master whilst you dispense pearls of pokemon wisdom. And perhaps if we spend enough time with you, the unquestioned Dali Lhama of pokemon, we can ascend to a higher level of enightenment and ourselves receive entry into the INNER CIRCLE OF AMAZING METAGAME SHAPING POWER AND WISDOM. Stroke your ego much?

 

[alex]

Thank you for posting for no other reason than to inform us that we are ignorant and that you the almight Synre got to post in the GODLY ELITE SECRET THREAD OF DOOM. We all think you are so l337 now and yearn to sit at the feet of the master whilst you dispense pearls of pokemon wisdom. And perhaps if we spend enough time with you, the unquestioned Dali Lhama of pokemon, we can ascend to a higher level of enightenment and ourselves receive entry into the INNER CIRCLE OF AMAZING METAGAME SHAPING POWER AND WISDOM. Stroke your ego much?

He posted to inform you that Manaphy ending up in the uber tier is very likely. He knows this information because of the aforementioned thread he took part in. Calm down.

 

[Firestorm]

Thank you for posting for no other reason than to inform us that we are ignorant and that you the almight Synre got to post in the GODLY ELITE SECRET THREAD OF DOOM. We all think you are so l337 now and yearn to sit at the feet of the master whilst you dispense pearls of pokemon wisdom. And perhaps if we spend enough time with you, the unquestioned Dali Lhama of pokemon, we can ascend to a higher level of enightenment and ourselves receive entry into the INNER CIRCLE OF AMAZING METAGAME SHAPING POWER AND WISDOM. Stroke your ego much?

At least he didn't just lock the thread. Maybe he realizes there's an odd chance something intelligent will come out? Not defending his comment though.

It's hard to expect much when the game's audience's average age is probably 12.

 

[Isotope]

His original post is amazingly condescending. If you don't see that I guess your starting the line for the pearls of wisdom.

 

[lilyhollow]

His original post is amazingly condescending. If you don't see that I guess your starting the line for the pearls of wisdom.

Whether or not it was condescending is rather irrelevant because it was also true. A lot of the discussion going on in this thread has already been addressed just in the small bits of post that chaos showed us. At least half of the posts, for example, seem to be about Tail Glow Manaphy when it was made clear almost immediately that Hydration is far scarier than people give it credit for, enough so that it is probably the main reason for putting Manaphy in ubers.

 

[gengod]

if you have a problem with synre then simply ignore him, i didnt particularly like what he posted simply because of the way he posted it but replying like you did simply may just prove his point, so can you just let it go so that can we just get on with the discussion peacefully

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Well, Synre, I can't post on that one so... ;(

Manaphy does not have to use Rain Dance itself to take advantage of Hydration. Rain Dance lasts 8 turns with a Damp Rock, so you can easily set it up with any number of other pokemon, taking a turn or two after that before switching out to Manaphy, and then still having 4-5 turns of Rain Dance for souped-up Surfs and Hydration abuse; T-Tar/Hippowdon are nothing to Rain Dance teams, so it's not like they're a huge threat to the strategy in general.

Rain Dance teams do in fact need to have special Tyranitar coverage, as the number one rule for them in not to overload on water attacks/Thunder. Swampert/Bronzong is about the best a Rain Dance team can come up with for a counter, assuming they do indeed have one of the two, which a few surprisingly don't.

I'll admit Rain Dance team+Manaphy is indeed a bit more potent then Tyranitar+Garchomp, but it's nothing that makes it deserve uber tiering.

Hydration Rest Manaphy by itself (meaning it must set up Rain itself) is nothing too scary, as Rest does have limited PP and Manaphy won't be killing much of anything without an attack boost.

 

[MegaBuddha]

I really don't like this talk of Uber Manaphy :X
I don't see how it's any worse than anything else boosting {s}attack. And ok rainrest sucks but then it's also not killing as much without being boosted.

 

[Pirate]

The jumpman blissey is 2khoed only if the opponent rolls max damage twice around so imo a blissey could wall the opposing manaphy.

A max def max sdef blissey is 3/4khoed by a tail glow (max modest) manaphy and an aromatherapy jumpman blissey (without ice beam)is 3khoed by opposing manaphy so really a t-waved manaphy dies to a blissey
but thats without 101 hp subs.

101 spells doom of blissey that aren't psych up or calm mind variants or ones that lack t-bolt.

Now you have to consider if someone on their team rain dances you have to take the precaution right at that moment. If manaphy is the one rain dancing and tail glowing then thats a 2 turn setup possibly allowing a revenge kill. If its sub tail glow then I guess it would be those Aero-dugtrio
revenge kills or something reminiscent of them.

Or you could do a blissey-dug sort of thing
a max def max hp manaphy has to have 3 tail glows to stop the Jump non ice beam cleric blissey

Manaphy comes in
Manaphy subs
Blissey Seismic tosses
Tail Glow #1
Blissey Seismic Tosses
Tail Glow #2 (Sub Breaks)
If manaphy wants to hit blissey its a 3hit so it has to go for the 2nd sub or the 3rd tail glow. Either way its a duggy kill and the next time manaphy comes in its going to die.




I personally feel the best way to deal with manaphy is to hit it. Or send in Gyar and DD up

 

[Luck]

I am to lazy to do exact math right now, Rain Dance+1 Tail Glow+Life Orb/Mystic Water+Surf,It does not take rocket scientist see that is going hurt alot.

It is fast and sturdy enough to do some sweeping and even if it was damage some time in battle,It has chance of Hydration rest itself back to full health.Give it plenty chances to set up.

I hate the banning of any pokemon but this one is very close.

 

[Isotope]

I hate to even mention this but youd do realize that assuming your other move is rest (you wouldn't carry rain dance without it) then guess what.......Vaporeon is utterly invincible vs. your manaphy. And he has other uses as well.

 

[Edux]

But if Manaphy is Modest then is easily outspeeded by Pokemon such as Gengar, Weavile, Dugtrio, Gyarados (After a DD), etc...

I know Gyarados is the only one from my list that can safely switch into a Surf but if you think it well, Manaphy can't switch into many because it lacks of resistances so that's the key =P

Life Orb Manaphy really scares me... now that I think it well

 

[Hippo]

I think Manaphy is uber.
Its just too good in OU, IMO. Hydration Rest really just pwns, not to mention, rain + stab nullifies the resistance of a poke, making it take a little more than neutral. With rain support (easily provided with Wet Rock) he can come in on any status move, then just tail glow it, or smash away with STAB Rain surfs.

Hydration Rest versions are unable to be statised, then can just heal thier HP right back up.

Hes uber, with the right team to help him, he'll destroy.
It doesn't matter if "hes not good enough for ubers", he could be with his buddy Kyogre, hes too good for OU.

Thank you for posting for no other reason than to inform us that we are ignorant and that you the almight Synre got to post in the GODLY ELITE SECRET THREAD OF DOOM. We all think you are so l337 now and yearn to sit at the feet of the master whilst you dispense pearls of pokemon wisdom. And perhaps if we spend enough time with you, the unquestioned Dali Lhama of pokemon, we can ascend to a higher level of enightenment and ourselves receive entry into the INNER CIRCLE OF AMAZING METAGAME SHAPING POWER AND WISDOM. Stroke your ego much?

I loled. Isotope does have a point though.

 

[evolutia]

Well the only way to find out if Manaphy is uber or not is though testing, not speculation. Weather this can come about from Wifi battles or Competior when it's released; only then will a true verdict come about.

 

[Lateralus]

I feel it is an Uber. RainRest is amazing with STAB Surf + Rain Dance = major damage. with a kyogre on your team, it is going to be a bitch to take down