-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Black and White Kyurem
- Thread starter shrang
- Start date
I suppose that once you discover the set, you should be fine. Specs are checked by Palkia and Steel-types, Mixed by Chansey and a Steel-type. Also, keeping Stealth Rock up is a key when facing these beasts; 25% each turn is not enjoyable at all, and with the Draco Meteor spam they are likely to switch out a lot.
95x2 = 190.
140 + 70 = 210.
Actually, thats wrong... Draco Meteor is stronger. Unless you meant it against Ferrothorn... Then even a single ice beam is stronger than Draco Meteor.
I agree with you, though. Ice Beam is a must on Choice Sets. Wouldnt be bad even if you used it only for Ferrothorn.
Except Draco meteor gets stab as well, making it 315...
I do think ice beam should remain a staple on choice scarf and specs, however. On scarf, it provides kyurem the ability to revenge ice weak arcei and not getting walled by lugia. On specs, ice beam acts as both kyurem's sustained move and it provides similar, yet crucially different coverage. Unlike dragon pulse, it hits skarmory, Excadrill, and most importantly, ferrothorn neutral. Like dragon pulse, it is not resisted by much, making it a solid move to just throw out there.
I do think ice beam should remain a staple on choice scarf and specs, however. On scarf, it provides kyurem the ability to revenge ice weak arcei and not getting walled by lugia. On specs, ice beam acts as both kyurem's sustained move and it provides similar, yet crucially different coverage. Unlike dragon pulse, it hits skarmory, Excadrill, and most importantly, ferrothorn neutral. Like dragon pulse, it is not resisted by much, making it a solid move to just throw out there.
I have to agree with Jibaku, Ice Beam is a must on choiced sets. Its essentially the same thing as running Draco Meteor + Dragon Pulse on the other choiced dragons except Ice Beam is stronger than Dragon Pulse, hits a majority of steels for neutral damage(!!!), and has that random freeze chance at the cost of losing damage on a few pokes. Most of the pokes Ice Beam does less damage than Dragon Pulse on are only coming in as revenge killers anyway, Palkia takes 76% minimum from Timid Specs Ice Beam, more than enough to keep Palkia from directly switching into you.
Now for something completely different: Modest versus Timid
I'll start by saying the Scarf set needs to be Timid to outspeed the scarfed base 90s that's a given.
For non-scarfed sets, Modest gives you more power while abusing the fact that most base 90 pokemon don't run max speed without a scarf, Reshiram being the only poke that seems to do so. Timid obviously lets you outspeed/speed tie other Kyurem and unboosted Rayquaza, but I don't think that outweighs the extra power from Modest. Timid 170 only gives 1 more SpAtk than Modest 150(Dialga/Reshiram) before and after applying Choice Specs. Essentially, you're trading Bulk, a SR resistance, and a better move pool for Speed, a better ability, and an SR Weakness in the case of Dialga. In the case of Reshiram, you're trading Fire STAB for Speed and better SE coverage. You can still outspeed everything important as Modest, but you also gain a bit of bulk and do noticeably more damage than Modest 150s.
Now for something completely different: Modest versus Timid
I'll start by saying the Scarf set needs to be Timid to outspeed the scarfed base 90s that's a given.
For non-scarfed sets, Modest gives you more power while abusing the fact that most base 90 pokemon don't run max speed without a scarf, Reshiram being the only poke that seems to do so. Timid obviously lets you outspeed/speed tie other Kyurem and unboosted Rayquaza, but I don't think that outweighs the extra power from Modest. Timid 170 only gives 1 more SpAtk than Modest 150(Dialga/Reshiram) before and after applying Choice Specs. Essentially, you're trading Bulk, a SR resistance, and a better move pool for Speed, a better ability, and an SR Weakness in the case of Dialga. In the case of Reshiram, you're trading Fire STAB for Speed and better SE coverage. You can still outspeed everything important as Modest, but you also gain a bit of bulk and do noticeably more damage than Modest 150s.
If sandstorm is up, Arceus-Rock can deal with any type of White Kyurem quite well. If it runs a 252HP / 90 Sp.D / 168 Spd EV spread with a calm nature, it only takes 57.65 - 68.01% from Modest 252 Sp.A Choice Specs Kyurem's Focus Blast (52.25 - 61.71% from Timid). In return, it will always outspeed unscarfed Kyurem-W and deal 77.23 - 91.04% with Judgement, guaranteeing an OHKO if the White Kyurem takes Stealth Rock damage switching in. The only other set White Kyurem can run that has a guaranteed 2KO is a Modest Life Orb set, which it still outspeeds and has a 53% chance to OHKO even without Stealth Rock, due to Life Orb recoil and sandstorm damage (though relying on sandstorm damage allows the White Kyurem a chance to attack, which could be a problem if Arceus took damage switching in).
Of course, this relies on sandstorm and Stealth Rock being up, but it would be a good way for Sandstorm teams to effectively deal with White Kyurem.
Of course, this relies on sandstorm and Stealth Rock being up, but it would be a good way for Sandstorm teams to effectively deal with White Kyurem.
Hey, I have a few questions about these guys.
1. Can you merge a Kyurem from Black or White with a Reshiram or Zekrom from Black or White?
2. Can you merge any Kyurem with any Reshiram or Zekrom? (To simplify question #1)
3. Can you merge Kyurem with a Reshiram from a different game in Black 2 or merge Kyurem with a Zekrom from a different game in White 2 (and so get Black or White Kyurem in a different version?
In fact, coyld someone just explain the whole merging thing, please?
1. Can you merge a Kyurem from Black or White with a Reshiram or Zekrom from Black or White?
2. Can you merge any Kyurem with any Reshiram or Zekrom? (To simplify question #1)
3. Can you merge Kyurem with a Reshiram from a different game in Black 2 or merge Kyurem with a Zekrom from a different game in White 2 (and so get Black or White Kyurem in a different version?
In fact, coyld someone just explain the whole merging thing, please?
Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Outrage
- Hone Claws
heres wat ive been using
similar to sub claw zek the main difference is that groudon will not enjoy trying to stop this (not that any groudon ever switches in)
it cant stop gyro ball ferro which can be problematic
the other main problem is that its only physical move forces zekrom to lock itself in
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Outrage
- Hone Claws
heres wat ive been using
similar to sub claw zek the main difference is that groudon will not enjoy trying to stop this (not that any groudon ever switches in)
it cant stop gyro ball ferro which can be problematic
the other main problem is that its only physical move forces zekrom to lock itself in
Um all heatran can do is take the draco meteor/dragon claw, have its balloon popped, and then proceed to be completely useless for the rest of the match. If kyruem isn't choiced, and puts up a sub on the switch then heatran is dead meat. What can heatran do offensivley to threaten the other team except some gimmicky crap. It'll just set up rocks and die. p
Chansey can stop kyruem-W, at the very least it locks it into outrage and you can switch to a steel.
I never said that heatran could check the sub kyreum W set. It can, however continually switch into choiced draco meteors/ice beams. As of the life orb set, heatran requires wish support if kyreum is running earth power, which is where Blissey/chansey come in.
Hyourinmaru (Kyurem-W) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Fusion Flare
- Ice Beam
This is... ultimate power. Being able to easily demolish Dialga, Kyogre, Groudon, Forretress and Tyranitar, which are all common leads, I can safely say that Choice Specs Kyurem-W is one of the greatest anti-leads in existence. Its ability to completely bypass Lugia's Multiscale with its Turboblaze-enhanced, Same Type Attack Bonus super effective Ice Beam is also absolutely amazing.
I never comment usually but I just wanna say that I'm pretty happy the title of strongest outrage no longer belongs to an NFE... I mean come on! With crap like rayquaza and zekrom running around in ubers it was still zweilous way down in NU that got the title?
BTW if someone has already said this I will commit cyber-suicide....
BTW if someone has already said this I will commit cyber-suicide....
Modest specs kyurem-w does 41.2%-48.4% with dmeteor... meaning heatran cannot repeatedly switch in...
It can switch in twice to a modest specs draco meteor from a 170sp.att stat. Thats pretty good considering. Pair heatran up with chansey/blissey with wish support and heatran can switch in all day to draco meteor and fusion flare. Chansey is, however the best check to the specs set. I would say heatran best counters the mixed set.
ElectivireRocks
Banned deucer.
Power Herb Freeze Shock Kyurem-B is actually decent.
I was expecting an Outrage or Fusion Bolt, so I switched my Ferrothorn in, only to be swiftly KO'd by Freeze Shock (SR and 1 layer of Spikes were on the field though).
I was expecting an Outrage or Fusion Bolt, so I switched my Ferrothorn in, only to be swiftly KO'd by Freeze Shock (SR and 1 layer of Spikes were on the field though).
Wait.... a one time STAB Ice move is decent? That's actually pretty terrible, considering that Freeze Shock then becomes a wasted move slot afterwards.
Anyways, I'm not sure if anybody else has said this, but for all the base 95 speed dragons, Rayquaza is the best. It can actually run a mixed set, and KO basically any wall in it's way. Honestly, these two dragons were a bit of a disappointment...
...not in the presence of Multiscale Lugia. That completely walls Rayquaza, whereas Kyurem-W at the very least destroys it effortlessly.
You know it only works if you keep hazards off the field right. +1 Outrage 2HKOs Lugia w/ Rocks, so it doesn't really wall Rayquaza
Then keep hazards off the field. Why not do so when Multiscale Lugia walls almost the entire tier with Stealth Rock off the field?
Err perhaps focus could be reverted back to the Kyurem stuff?
You DO make a funny point though, in my experience of seeing others use Kyurem, it appears that it either A, gets hit with Stealth Rock, reveals its choiced item, then gets forced to switch, and does that the whole match and ends up doing nothing, or B, dents something then gets promptly revenge killed. I think there was honestly too much hype about the Kyurem forms now..., anyone else find them a bit disappointing after testing them out?
You DO make a funny point though, in my experience of seeing others use Kyurem, it appears that it either A, gets hit with Stealth Rock, reveals its choiced item, then gets forced to switch, and does that the whole match and ends up doing nothing, or B, dents something then gets promptly revenge killed. I think there was honestly too much hype about the Kyurem forms now..., anyone else find them a bit disappointing after testing them out?
Just saying, but its near impossible to keep Rocks off the field. The spinblockers (gira-a / o, Arceus Ghost) will prevent spinning for almost all the match and most of the common SR users (dialga, ttar, groudon) are more then capable of muscling through Xatu and Espeon. Well unless Groudon's running support don set and Xatu has reflect. Also the idea of using a magic bounce poke with Kyurem is actually quite interesting, but what bothers me is the terrible synergy issues created with it. Psychic Flying and Dragon Ice, offer few valuable useful resistance when used in conjunction (barring Ground, and Kyurem's defenses aren't exactly high enough to stomach hits without tons of investment)... A spinner might work and it offers better synergy but considering how (un)reliable spinning is...
There are no good rapid spinners.
Rayquaza still has the strongest Outrage since Zekrom Kyurem can't boost.
Freeze Shock is Useless
It's essential 70 Base Power with 95 accuracy since you have to waste two turns. No use considering ice beam already hits Lugi and Ferrothorn good. Freeze Shock is useless against walls.
Off topic, but now that Mold Breaker is released, Excadrill can just nail Giratina-O with Earthquake since it does more damage considering STAB.
Earthquake = 100*1.5 = 150
Shadow Claw = 2* 70 = 140 :p
Anyone considered a Sub+Hone Claws set? With Roost, I can use it as a fairly annoying set-up sweeper, and usually knock off as many foes from the opponents team as turns outrage keeps going.
Mono-Attacker:
Kyurem-Z @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP/252 Atk/16 Def/188 Spe
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-Substitute
-Hone Claws
-Roost/Fusion Bolt
-Outrage
I find this set surprisingly effective. Due to Kyurem-Z's tendency to force switches, it's surprisingly easy to set up a Sub in your opponents face. In my experience, a lot of foes tend to try to counter Kyurem-Z with status, so if you're lucky you can get another switch in there. From there, set up Hone Claws until you feel no longer safe (If the foe is faster than you and about to destroy your Sub, or they're slower and they have destroyed it) and maul them with Outrage. Roost works best in tandem with Lum Berry, but is still a great choice with Leftovers. However, Fusion Bolt is an option if you don't want to get confused, but should usually be used with Leftovers. 52 HP EVs allow Kyurem-Z to set up 101 HP Substitutes, while 252 Attack EVs maximize offensive potency. 188 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature allow you to outpace neutral-nature base 100s such as Adamant Choice Band Victini, but a bulkier spread of 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Def with an Adamant nature is an option for more power and bulk. The rest of the EVs are thrown into defense to maximize durability.
Mono-Attacker:
Kyurem-Z @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP/252 Atk/16 Def/188 Spe
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-Substitute
-Hone Claws
-Roost/Fusion Bolt
-Outrage
I find this set surprisingly effective. Due to Kyurem-Z's tendency to force switches, it's surprisingly easy to set up a Sub in your opponents face. In my experience, a lot of foes tend to try to counter Kyurem-Z with status, so if you're lucky you can get another switch in there. From there, set up Hone Claws until you feel no longer safe (If the foe is faster than you and about to destroy your Sub, or they're slower and they have destroyed it) and maul them with Outrage. Roost works best in tandem with Lum Berry, but is still a great choice with Leftovers. However, Fusion Bolt is an option if you don't want to get confused, but should usually be used with Leftovers. 52 HP EVs allow Kyurem-Z to set up 101 HP Substitutes, while 252 Attack EVs maximize offensive potency. 188 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature allow you to outpace neutral-nature base 100s such as Adamant Choice Band Victini, but a bulkier spread of 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Def with an Adamant nature is an option for more power and bulk. The rest of the EVs are thrown into defense to maximize durability.
Black Kyurem Freeze Shock won't even scatch Ferrothorn
Excadrill needs sand to win and Tyranitar is uncommon. The last thing Kyurem forms want is more residual damage. Excadrill will get destroyed with any of the Giratinas. Shadow Claw has like 70 BP. A neutral earthquake does more damage.