Imminent Big Change: Keldeo

I have a small observation which isn't all that groundbreaking but is puzzling nonetheless. Why is everyone assuming Hidden Power Ghost, when Hidden Power Dark is just as powerful and hits the same things for super effective damage? Further, using Dark means you don't need to run one fewer IV for the Defense and Special Defense stats. I understand that the difference is truly negligible, but why settle for a reduction in stats if you don't need to? Off the top of my head, the only added coverage Hidden Power Ghost affords is something to hit Toxicroak neutrally with. Sure that isn't the reason everyone is opting for Ghost?
actually, that IS the reason that everyone is opting for ghost. Besides, 1 IV never hurt anyone (as long as its not Speed)
 

voodoo pimp

marco pimp
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Hitting Toxicroak and not risking a Terrakion counter-sweep seems like more than enough reason to sacrifice a negligible amount of bulk to me.
 
Covet, Bounce, Last Resort, Superpower, Icy Wind, Aqua Tail, Snore, Helping Hand, Edeavor, Sleep Talk

So Many big moves and absolutely nothing it can use. At least it can make a decent but seriously lacking physical set with Superpower and Aqua Tail.

Also, really troll freak? You gave it Icy Wind.
 

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
252 SpAtk Timid Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Salamence: 145.02% - 171.6%
252 SpAtk Timid Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Dragonite (No Multiscale): 93.26% - 109.84%

Not the destroyer of worlds, but it does let Specs Keldeo use his Hidden Power for other things like Jellicent.
 
Dragonite get's Superpower now the only reason it has not to run Multiscale is Heal Bell which Game Freak felt the need NOT to give Dragonite. (Troll Freak, why you gotta be such trolls) Also both those pokemon are 4x Weak to Ice so that's not a very good example of how good Icy Wind is XD.
 
Dragonite get's Superpower now the only reason it has not to run Multiscale is Heal Bell which Game Freak felt the need NOT to give Dragonite. (Troll Freak, why you gotta be such trolls) Also both those pokemon are 4x Weak to Ice so that's not a very good example of how good Icy Wind is XD.
It is still better than most options on the Specs set. Keldeo can get along with Icy Wind (better than without it). Didn't people use Icy Wind Gengar as a check to Chomp back in DP?

Also Multiscale with Roost+Heal Bell+DD+Dragon Claw would be impossible to take out
 

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
Dragonite get's Superpower now the only reason it has not to run Multiscale is Heal Bell which Game Freak felt the need NOT to give Dragonite. (Troll Freak, why you gotta be such trolls) Also both those pokemon are 4x Weak to Ice so that's not a very good example of how good Icy Wind is XD.
The calc is with Multiscale broken be it by hazards, sandstorm, or a foolish switch.
The only Dragons Keldeo has a problem with are the x4 weak ones so it is the perfect example.

Icy Wind deals with the Dragons that resist Secret Sword, HP Ghost deals with Jellicent and, to a lesser extent, Celebi. Bar Grass/Poisons and Toxicroak, Ice Wind does in fact solve the bulk of Specs Keldeo's issues.
 

ss234

bop.
Volcarona is not dead-it got Giga Drain to deal with Keldeo and Terrakion. Still walled to death by Heatran, but still...

Really, no Ice Beam? I suppose Icy Wind is still pretty good though-it does 2HKO Latias with Specs or a Life Orb or after a Calm Mind I suppose. He's terrifying enough frankly to get Ice Beam.
 
I think celebi would be a great check. Any grass type with high sp def shoyld do the trick. Virizion comes to mind.
Virizion gets destroyed by a +1 LO Secret Sword:
252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Keldeo (Neutral) Secret Sword vs 4HP/0Def Virizion (Neutral): 108% - 128% (352 - 417 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
 
So, I'm curious, is HP Ghost pretty much agreed by everyone to be the best Hidden Power option for Keldeo?
 
Covet, Bounce, Last Resort, Superpower, Icy Wind, Aqua Tail, Snore, Helping Hand, Edeavor, Sleep Talk

So Many big moves and absolutely nothing it can use. At least it can make a decent but seriously lacking physical set with Superpower and Aqua Tail.

Also, really troll freak? You gave it Icy Wind.
It already had Aqua Tail, and why use Superpower when it's got Close Combat?

Icy Wind is probably the only note worthy move it gained lol.
 
It really sucks that Resolution form doesn't do anything to help Keldeo, in fact it hinders him.
In DW tier Keldeo could occasionally run a Swords Dance set which, while not nearly as destructive as specially-based sets, had a form of priority (Aqua Jet) and surprise factor.

Since there is no reason not to run Secret Sword (lol Focus Blast) on standard sets, as soon as your opponent sees that Keldeo has his default sprite he'll know that you're running a physical-based set for sure, making it virtually useless.

Oh well, Keldeo is still a good pokemon. I just wish Resultion form wasn't merely aestethic.
Hmmm...could you teach Secret Sword to Keldeo in BW1 then trade it over? Kind of a hassle just to do that, but at least it'll be possible to keep it in it's normal form with Secret Sword.
 
Resist to Keldeo STAB

Ice Beam would be an amazing coverage move for Keldeo.

These, off the top of my head, are the current OU pokes that resist Keldeo's STAB options:

-Gyarados
-Jellicent
-Tentacruel
-Starmie
-Dragonite
-Salamence
-Latios
-Latias
-Celebi
-Venusaur

EDIT: I suppose Toxicroak is also a STAB resistor due to Dry Skin, forgot about that.
This is a complete list of the OU pokemon that resist its STAB moves:

Venusaur
Victreebel (Chlorophyll)
Tentacruel
Slowbro (UU, but used in OU)
Exeggutor (Recycle Stall?)
Starmie
Gyarados
Dragonite
Slowking (UU)
Celebi
Tropius (Recycle Stall?)
Salamence
Latias
Latios
Roserade
Amoonguss
Jellicent

PS: Shedinja is immune.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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are we at the point where Dragonite isn't considered a counter anymore? LO Keldeo in rain 2HKOes Dragonite with ease.

0/4 Adamant Multiscale Dragonite vs 252 LO Timid Hydro Pump in rain: 29.1 - 34.4%
0/4 Adamant Dragonite vs 252 LO Timid Hydro Pump in rain: 58.2% - 68.7%

so mid damage against standard Dragonite (not bulky, not specially defensive, STANDARD) has a pretty solid chance at OHKOing. Considering SR is easy as shit to lay down I wouldn't consider Dragonite a counter at all.
 
+1 LO Icy wind has a chance to 2HKO Amoongus. It's a VERY easy prediction to make on the switch.

how are you going to get to +1 AND hit on the switch in?

if your keldeo calm minds on the switch, and healthy amoonguss can live the icy wind and spore/giga drain/clear smog.

if you decide to icy wind on the switch, youre at +0 and you now 3hko.

oh and btw,

super effective icy wind= 55 x 2 = 110
resisted rain boosted hydro pump= 120 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 0.5 = 135

a resisted Hydro pump is stronger than a super effective icy wind
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
Only in rain, which is kind of a lame assumption to make. Although, why even pack icy wind? You have to either kill secret sword(Blissey, SPDef walls, powerful stab), hydro pump (Have fun with that?), or Hp ghost. Why not just replace HP ghost with HP ice? You really want to hit people that switch in and slow them down?
 
I'd Like to point out that Specs Tornadus-T + Keldeo completely wrecks any chance that Amoongus has of dealing with Keldeo.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
In what way? You both have regenerator, and amoong packs HP ice. With SR down, that means tornadus won't even be healing that much. Not to mention clear smog on the switch or just SPORE.
 
Clear smog won't do jack, and you wouldn't do it with a keldeo staring at you.

Spore doesn't work because specs T-T carries sleep talk.


And you assume incorrectly that you are going to be getting SR up against a proper rain team.

Good luck with that.
 
Only in rain, which is kind of a lame assumption to make. Although, why even pack icy wind? You have to either kill secret sword(Blissey, SPDef walls, powerful stab), hydro pump (Have fun with that?), or Hp ghost. Why not just replace HP ghost with HP ice? You really want to hit people that switch in and slow them down?
I think the poster mistakedly didn't point out by the +1 that he meant the specs set. Icy Wind finds itself on the specs set because it makes room for HP Ghost while still retaining the ability to 2HKO Latios on the switch (because of the speed. However even if it is Spec, Amoonguss doesn't have to stat in to be 2HKO'ed. It can recover that HP it has lost with two simple switches.

edit: lol no one uses Sleep Talk on Specs. Even if you used it, you risk your Keldeo just dying to a Giga Drain.
 

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