Celestial Beings-- Full Trick Room

[Absolete]

Sciztar, nice eye - this team does struggle against Rain, which is a problem :x

Absolete, have you considered Celebi > Slowbro? Celebi lacks regeneration, but it does have solid bulk on both defenses to tank some fighting hits. Not to mention it provides you a check against Breloom. Celebi can tank Water and Electric hits and demolish Water-types with Leaf Storm. Fire-types like Heatran would be a bigger bitch though, making Dragonite that much more an important member.

Celebi @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
Calm Nature | 232 HP / 180 SpA / 96 SpD
~ Leaf Storm
~ HP Fire
~ Trick Room
~ Healing Wish / U-turn / Earth Power

With those SpA EVs it has a good chance to OHKO 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor after SR (83-99%) and 2HKO 252 HP / 168+ SpD Ferrothorn after SR (47-56%). If you don't care about nabbing those 2HKOs, going max HP / SpD is probably ideal for tanking those hits from SpecsToed, Thundurus-T, and Keldeo. On the flip side, you can go Modest max HP / max SpA, but it's not going to sponge water hits that well at all.

Healing Wish is the best way to bring in your Conkeldurr / Dragonite. U-turn is nice for switch-advantage, whereas Earth Power is nice for removing Heatran / offensive Jirachi.Psychic is an option to remove Thundurus-T, which is 2HKOed after SR even with 0 SpA.

PS: Thanks for enjoying my rates, Absolete and Gimmick - it means a lot..

I had that exeggutor in the team, with nearly the same move set and harvest lum berry, and with the EV spread he was comparably bulky as a full special attack Celebi. It just didn seem to carry its weight. I'll try out Celebi for a bit, but I think I'll run into similar problems as I had before-- namely sun teams and anything i'd currently remove with sleep.

Also, are those HP Fire calculations done with rain? If so I need a new calculator haha.

@Arceus that is the coolest thing ever. It won't matter too much, the damage formula hasn't changed and the majority of OU hasn't either.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Sciztar]

Here are some calculations for Celebi's Hidden Power Fire in the Rain to Scizor
Choice Band Scizor- Hidden Power Fire: 144-168 (41.98 - 48.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So with Celebi you'll be 3HKO Scizor in the rain.

The problem with Exeggutor in my opinion, is that while both Celebi and Exeggutor are KOed by every Scizor. But Celebi can sponge better special attacks better than Exeggutor and it has access to Healing Wish, which is good for your sweepers.

Also, stay with the wall breaking Dragonite. Here is where I disagree with Pocket, you see Draco Meteor is your biggest STAb and gets rid of Pokemon with weaker special defense and also you don't have to switch out just b/c you have -2, you still have Extremespeed and Superpower, but once you use Superpower and draco Meteor then you have to switch out. Also its good to have a mixed sweepers that gets rid of threats to your team, like Scizor, breloom, and Thundurus-T.

Plus drop drain punch and add Hammer Arm, the extra HP isn't worth a weaker attack. Plus if you have Celebi, you can easily use Healing Wish and bring back Conkeldurr.

 

[Absolete]

Here are some calculations for Celebi's Hidden Power Fire in the Rain to Scizor
Choice Band Scizor- Hidden Power Fire: 144-168 (41.98 - 48.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So with Celebi you'll be 3HKO Scizor in the rain.

The problem with Exeggutor in my opinion, is that while both Celebi and Exeggutor are KOed by every Scizor. But Celebi can sponge better special attacks better than Exeggutor and it has access to Healing Wish, which is good for your sweepers.

Also, stay with the wall breaking Dragonite. Here is where I disagree with Pocket, you see Draco Meteor is your biggest STAb and gets rid of Pokemon with weaker special defense and also you don't have to switch out just b/c you have -2, you still have Extremespeed and Superpower, but once you use Superpower and draco Meteor then you have to switch out. Also its good to have a mixed sweepers that gets rid of threats to your team, like Scizor, breloom, and Thundurus-T.

Plus drop drain punch and add Hammer Arm, the extra HP isn't worth a weaker attack. Plus if you have Celebi, you can easily use Healing Wish and bring back Conkeldurr.

3HKOing Scizor is nice and all, but the fact that he easily OHKOs me, and is often faster than Celebi in Trick Room, makes the 3HKO much less appealing. Celebi might be a bit better than Exeggutor, but I don't know if he'll do enough for my team to warrant replacing Slowbro, who fills many holes.

I agree here with Dragonite, and believe I'm keeping Draco Meteor. I switched to Outrage for testing, and of course Dragonite still tore shit up, I absolutely despise being locked into outrage. I'd MUCH rather switch out slightly more often after a Draco Meteor than I would keep in with outrage, do 20% to a heatran and get OHKOed or something like that. Dragonite is a HUGE asset to the team, and losing him early can often be troublesome to say the least. I think Draco Meteor is the answer, at least for now.

 

[Zant]

Thanks for posting this. I've been using it with good success. I love the pokemon, the moves, and I'm a big fan of trick room. Props on this epic team.

 

[Absolete]

Zant! Thank you, mah man. I'm glad you're enjoying, tell your friends! Explore Trick Room more and share any creative breakthroughs with me! :D

 

[Zant]

Zant! Thank you, mah man. I'm glad you're enjoying, tell your friends! Explore Trick Room more and share any creative breakthroughs with me! :D

I will, indeed! Anything I find. I might expirement with this team a bit :] I really wish the trick room strategy was on up there with weather, I find it to be very unique. Maybe there'll be a TR extending item like with screens or something some day. Good luck with your tricky, roomy endeavors.

 

[spoonfork11]

How would you lead against a rain team? I find it's hard to get momentum early on.

 

[grasswhistle]

I actually registered to post in this topic. I've been playing competitively since DPP, and I dont like seeing a team this highly rated when it is destroyed by common threats in OU.

My main critique would have to be: specially defensive nine tails, and sun as a whole, demolishes this team. Sun lead with SpDef ninetails (its most common set, regardless of whether its CM/sub varieties, or nasty plot users, etc) has no answer from you. its boosted fireblast and solar beam will destroy anything you send out. Sun teams are all over PS, especially since the ladders have been up and down and people find sun more fun than the 60%+ prevalence of rain in the meta.

I have no problem proving this to anyone by running a lead SpDef Ninetails against this team exactly as listed and will easily take 2-3 of your team out uncontested- regardless of whether you use trick room or not. When this poke is the lead of choice for sun teams against teams that have no weather inducer, it is inexcusable to have that be something that rolls your team flat.

EDIT: I'll go ahead and point out that slowbro as listed does nothing against spdef ninetails. surf under the sun doesn't 2hko while slobro is 1-2hko by solar beam. After that you have no resistance to boosted flame attacks 1hko-2hkoing your entire team by even bulkier pokemon than yours.

 

[Absolete]

I actually registered to post in this topic. I've been playing competitively since DPP, and I dont like seeing a team this highly rated when it is destroyed by common threats in OU.

My main critique would have to be: specially defensive nine tails, and sun as a whole, demolishes this team. Sun lead with SpDef ninetails (its most common set, regardless of whether its CM/sub varieties, or nasty plot users, etc) has no answer from you. its boosted fireblast and solar beam will destroy anything you send out. Sun teams are all over PS, especially since the ladders have been up and down and people find sun more fun than the 60%+ prevalence of rain in the meta.

I have no problem proving this to anyone by running a lead SpDef Ninetails against this team exactly as listed and will easily take 2-3 of your team out uncontested- regardless of whether you use trick room or not. When this poke is the lead of choice for sun teams against teams that have no weather inducer, it is inexcusable to have that be something that rolls your team flat.

EDIT: I'll go ahead and point out that slowbro as listed does nothing against spdef ninetails. surf under the sun doesn't 2hko while slobro is 1-2hko by solar beam. After that you have no resistance to boosted flame attacks 1hko-2hkoing your entire team by even bulkier pokemon than yours.

I'll take you up on that bet when I'm done with training and have some free time, as I have face plenty of sun teams and have never had an unsolvable problem. Thank you for registering and commenting though! I do appreciate it. Slowbro would certainly not be my counter to Ninetales, regardless. Super Effective Solar Beam to the weaker defense stat is no fun. It would be either Porygon 2 or Reuniclus to start, get Trick Room up, and then decide whether to switch to Dragonite or Conkeldurr (both OHKO Ninetails IIRC) or just 2HKO with Reuniclus.

EDIT: @spoonfork, it really depends on a lot of games. I don't really have a "lead" on this team, I do what seems right. Generally it's Slowbro, who uses Yawn and then sets up Trick Room and leaves.

 

[grasswhistle]

I'll take you up on that bet when I'm done with training and have some free time, as I have face plenty of sun teams and have never had an unsolvable problem. Thank you for registering and commenting though! I do appreciate it. Slowbro would certainly not be my counter to Ninetales, regardless. Super Effective Solar Beam to the weaker defense stat is no fun. It would be either Porygon 2 or Reuniclus to start, get Trick Room up, and then decide whether to switch to Dragonite or Conkeldurr (both OHKO Ninetails IIRC) or just 2HKO with Reuniclus.

EDIT: @spoonfork, it really depends on a lot of games. I don't really have a "lead" on this team, I do what seems right. Generally it's Slowbro, who uses Yawn and then sets up Trick Room and leaves.

Porygon 2 cant even hope to 2hko ninetails (thunderbolt does 35% or so), giving ninetails a free two turns (trick room then switch) which means you've now lost a pokemon (or >50% hp on two pokes).

So lets say you lead with renuc (who can 2hko the spdef orientated with psyshock). If you lead with TR, youll take a second fireblast before you get a second psyshock off (this is true whether opposing ninetails spams fireblast, or uses sub on TR). If you you lead with psyshock and ninetails fireblasts, you will die next turn with no TR set up. HOWEVER- if you psyshock and ninetails makes a sub, then you can threaten it out on turn two since you now threaten a second psyshock that has potential to kill the ninetails from its current 75% hp.

You have 1 pokemon that can go against 9tails lead, and it is a 50-50 shot at dying to it completely. If it doesnt die, then the ninetails is forced out at 75% hp with sun still up- barely even qualifying for the loss of the trade. If you ever attempt to set up TR and then swap out to dragonite or conkelderp, then you've either lost a poke, or gave up >50% hp on two pokes (except dragonite due to magic scale, but its still KO'd while ninetails sits behind its sub).

I think your best start is conkelderp which should cause 9tails to switch out since sun is up already, or attempt to trade with fireblast (which shouldnt 1hko if its spdef orientated and you are EVEd for max hp on conk) Conk also appreciates getting his status up early so he can block potential status like sleep/para later. You could start dnite, but you risk getting will-o-wisped on turn one (which doesnt shut you down your dnite completely, but will hamper half its movepool and remove its ability all at once).

I just don't see how have much game versus sun. Even ignoring the problematic start against ninetails, you dont have anything that can take repeated boosted fireblasts from pokes with even a modest spatk stat (like heatran). You also seem semi-weak to rain as well, as others have said. Any ou team weak to weather isn't. I do like TR though, and anything that people can make work that isn't more weather nonsense gets an A+ and a luvdisc in my book. I also dig the space theme. Best of luck with the team dude.

 

[Absolete]

Porygon 2 cant even hope to 2hko ninetails (thunderbolt does 35% or so), giving ninetails a free two turns (trick room then switch) which means you've now lost a pokemon (or >50% hp on two pokes).

So lets say you lead with renuc (who can 2hko the spdef orientated with psyshock). If you lead with TR, youll take a second fireblast before you get a second psyshock off (this is true whether opposing ninetails spams fireblast, or uses sub on TR). If you you lead with psyshock and ninetails fireblasts, you will die next turn with no TR set up. HOWEVER- if you psyshock and ninetails makes a sub, then you can threaten it out on turn two since you now threaten a second psyshock that has potential to kill the ninetails from its current 75% hp.

You have 1 pokemon that can go against 9tails lead, and it is a 50-50 shot at dying to it completely. If it doesnt die, then the ninetails is forced out at 75% hp with sun still up- barely even qualifying for the loss of the trade. If you ever attempt to set up TR and then swap out to dragonite or conkelderp, then you've either lost a poke, or gave up >50% hp on two pokes (except dragonite due to magic scale, but its still KO'd while ninetails sits behind its sub).

I think your best start is conkelderp which should cause 9tails to switch out since sun is up already, or attempt to trade with fireblast (which shouldnt 1hko if its spdef orientated and you are EVEd for max hp on conk) Conk also appreciates getting his status up early so he can block potential status like sleep/para later. You could start dnite, but you risk getting will-o-wisped on turn one (which doesnt shut you down your dnite completely, but will hamper half its movepool and remove its ability all at once).

I just don't see how have much game versus sun. Even ignoring the problematic start against ninetails, you dont have anything that can take repeated boosted fireblasts from pokes with even a modest spatk stat (like heatran). You also seem semi-weak to rain as well, as others have said. Any ou team weak to weather isn't. I do like TR though, and anything that people can make work that isn't more weather nonsense gets an A+ and a luvdisc in my book. I also dig the space theme. Best of luck with the team dude.

I guess I can't really explain it, but it seems to work fine. I mean, it's nothing something I can theorymon through, but I've beaten plenty of decent sun teams, rain teams, sand teams, etc., and have a more than acceptable W/L with it.

Thank you for the luv, mah man!