G-Von
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Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]
- Thread starter Nix_Hex
- Start date
Tally right now:
Temp V1's Jellicent: 1
Electrolyte's Rotom-W: 7
Ganj4lF's Magnezone: 2
G-Von's Gastrodon: 5
Everyone else didn't get any votes.
Temp V1's Jellicent: 1
Electrolyte's Rotom-W: 7
Ganj4lF's Magnezone: 2
G-Von's Gastrodon: 5
Everyone else didn't get any votes.
Thank you ganj4lF for the tally! It looks like team 2's 3rd member is none other than Rotom-W!
Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Trick
With this set we have finished Team 2's FWG core. The current team line ups are:
Team 1: Meloetta / Thundurus-T / Metagross
Team 2: Celebi / Heatran / Rotom-W
Now, it is time to pick the fourth member of Team 2. Please suggest one set including the Pokemon's name, sprite, item, Nature, Ability, Forme, EVs, IVs (if relevant), and moves. I'll post when voting is to start. Go for it!
Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Trick
With this set we have finished Team 2's FWG core. The current team line ups are:
Team 1: Meloetta / Thundurus-T / Metagross
Team 2: Celebi / Heatran / Rotom-W
Now, it is time to pick the fourth member of Team 2. Please suggest one set including the Pokemon's name, sprite, item, Nature, Ability, Forme, EVs, IVs (if relevant), and moves. I'll post when voting is to start. Go for it!
ok, it's quite obvious that we definitely need a physical hitter right now. We have three strong specials vs two strong specials and one strong physical. I did a type check on Marriland, and we have one resistance to every type except rock- which is really great. What I think we should do right now that we've got a pretty offensive core is try to eliminate as many offensive options for team 1 as possible- because the worst thing you can do to a Hyper Offense team is to, well, not include hyper offensive pokemon. Just like we are using Rotom-W to discourage team 1 from using Rain, I think we should use Mamoswine to prevent team 1 from leaning towards Dragons or other weather. Mamoswine is very anti-hyper offensive- Ice Shard hits a lot of fast paced pokemon (Salamence, Tornadus-T, Thundurus, Breloom) really hard and fast. Now, it may seem retarded to use an Ice type right now- all of team 1 can hit Mamo super effectively. However, Mamoswine has a revenge killing nature- so it's not meant to take hits very much. Also, it can be very useful bait for Metagross. Come in, bait the Bullet Punch, switch to Tran, and fry Meloetta or Thundurus with Lava Plume. Though Mamoswine does bring some weaknesses to the table, it does do one very useful thing- it cuts off a lot of offensive options for team 1. Oh, they wanted to use MoxieMence? Too bad they can't anymore. They want to use Tornadus-T? Sorry man. Landorus? Eat my ice.
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly
~Ice Shard
~Earthquake
~Icicle Spear
~Stone Edge
Flame me if you want, but I really like Icicle Spear's ability to hit through Substitute. If they decide to choose something like SubPunch Breloom (hypothetically) then Icicle Spear will be very useful. However, I'm certainly open for suggestions- because other than slower Substitute fighting types, there aren't many pokemon Spear hits harder than Crash. Mamoswine effectively closes their options while still keeping ours up.
And, of course it will be obligatory to add a fighting resist, at least somewhere down the road. Too many fighting weaknesses will definitely fail our team.
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly
~Ice Shard
~Earthquake
~Icicle Spear
~Stone Edge
Flame me if you want, but I really like Icicle Spear's ability to hit through Substitute. If they decide to choose something like SubPunch Breloom (hypothetically) then Icicle Spear will be very useful. However, I'm certainly open for suggestions- because other than slower Substitute fighting types, there aren't many pokemon Spear hits harder than Crash. Mamoswine effectively closes their options while still keeping ours up.
And, of course it will be obligatory to add a fighting resist, at least somewhere down the road. Too many fighting weaknesses will definitely fail our team.
I like Electrolyte's suggestion, Mamoswine was my first thought as well. Mamoswine prevents them to pick those Flying, Dragon and, to a lesser extent, Grass types (think Celebi or Virizion) that could cause quite a good amount of problems. Not only, but it's probably the best check to Thundurus out there, and that's quite valuable since nothing can really counter it in our team. However, I wonder why you decided to give it a Choice Band instead of a Life Orb. With LO, Mamo still OHKOs Thundurus after Stealth Rock 100% of the times; of course, you lose that pesky 25% to OHKO regardless, and that almost guaranteed KO after a round of LO recoil, but you gain the extreme flexibility that LO gives. For example, if you stick to Band, they can switch Metagross into your Ice Shard, then do some nasty things like predicting Heatran and EQ without ANY risk, while with a LO they would be somewhat forced to Bullet Punch and give a free switch to Heatran (and a bad prediction would lead to their Metagross fainting, instead). Of course, this is all mindgame territory but having LO gives us much more flexibility and unpredictability compared to a quite small loss of power.
There is another fast, physical hard-hitter that comes into my mind, and, for the sake of discussion, I'm proposing it even if I'm not sure it would do a better job that Mamoswine. Would be nice to hear your opinions.
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack
Terrakion's typing is, as Mamoswine, a mixed bag. It's incredible offensively, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively. However, we can still use it quite well, since it provides that Rock resistance that we lack, and useful resistance to Bug (U-Turn anyone?), Dark and Fire that Celebi would love (and Poison, but that's not too much relevant). Apart from that, Terrakion brings speed and a lot of raw power to our team, something that I think we lack right now. It can check Thundurus exactly as Mamoswine does, since it outspeeds and OHKO no matter what with Stone Edge, although the accuracy is a letdown as always (however, do note that Close Combat still deals 65% minimum, so if we really want a safe kill and Thundurus has some previous damage, that's an option too). And, much more than Mamoswine, in my opinion, it destroys anything that tries to switch in. A Choice Band is not that big of a problem when you're dealing over 50% damage even to what resists your STAB move of choice. For example, Meloetta is straight up OHKOd no question asked by Close Combat, and Metagross takes 64% min, not really a free switch-in. Countering Terrakion is extremely difficult for them, since an hyper offensive team simply lacks switch-ins that can take its STAB moves, thus making it a good choice to open holes into their team and prepare something else to sweep.
There is another fast, physical hard-hitter that comes into my mind, and, for the sake of discussion, I'm proposing it even if I'm not sure it would do a better job that Mamoswine. Would be nice to hear your opinions.
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack
Terrakion's typing is, as Mamoswine, a mixed bag. It's incredible offensively, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively. However, we can still use it quite well, since it provides that Rock resistance that we lack, and useful resistance to Bug (U-Turn anyone?), Dark and Fire that Celebi would love (and Poison, but that's not too much relevant). Apart from that, Terrakion brings speed and a lot of raw power to our team, something that I think we lack right now. It can check Thundurus exactly as Mamoswine does, since it outspeeds and OHKO no matter what with Stone Edge, although the accuracy is a letdown as always (however, do note that Close Combat still deals 65% minimum, so if we really want a safe kill and Thundurus has some previous damage, that's an option too). And, much more than Mamoswine, in my opinion, it destroys anything that tries to switch in. A Choice Band is not that big of a problem when you're dealing over 50% damage even to what resists your STAB move of choice. For example, Meloetta is straight up OHKOd no question asked by Close Combat, and Metagross takes 64% min, not really a free switch-in. Countering Terrakion is extremely difficult for them, since an hyper offensive team simply lacks switch-ins that can take its STAB moves, thus making it a good choice to open holes into their team and prepare something else to sweep.
Set up sweeper or all out attacker. Choiced, LO'ed. Pure physical or mixed. Definitely a fighting type though.....
These were the thoughts I had when I thought about what to suggest. My first thoughts went to Terrakion too but the Bullet Punch weakness can lead to predictability.
Gallade could be cool if only we gave him paralysis support, and although he has great Special Defense he would compound our ghost and flying weakness.
The same with Breloom, he shares too many weaknesses with Celebi.
In the end I chose a hard hitting semi-durable (YMMV) mon with a good physical repertoire and a little special magic as well:
Mienshao @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Naive Nature
Regenerator
252 Att / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Hi-Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Stone Edge
-Hidden Power [Ice]
Outspeeding everything on Team one except Meloetta-P this Kung-Fu ferret thingy can bounce in and out with LO boosted U-Turns and tag team with it's Volt Switching team mate to carry momentum. But when needed can unleash a nasty Stone Edge or Jump Kick for some serious damage and HP Ice has the potential to keep potential 4x weak pokes checked.
Choice Scarf is a viable alternative on him but so far team 1 has nothing that would demand he runs a Scarf for so I'd go with Life Orb unless they start adding DD-MoxieMence or the like.
These were the thoughts I had when I thought about what to suggest. My first thoughts went to Terrakion too but the Bullet Punch weakness can lead to predictability.
Gallade could be cool if only we gave him paralysis support, and although he has great Special Defense he would compound our ghost and flying weakness.
The same with Breloom, he shares too many weaknesses with Celebi.
In the end I chose a hard hitting semi-durable (YMMV) mon with a good physical repertoire and a little special magic as well:
Mienshao @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Naive Nature
Regenerator
252 Att / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Hi-Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Stone Edge
-Hidden Power [Ice]
Outspeeding everything on Team one except Meloetta-P this Kung-Fu ferret thingy can bounce in and out with LO boosted U-Turns and tag team with it's Volt Switching team mate to carry momentum. But when needed can unleash a nasty Stone Edge or Jump Kick for some serious damage and HP Ice has the potential to keep potential 4x weak pokes checked.
Choice Scarf is a viable alternative on him but so far team 1 has nothing that would demand he runs a Scarf for so I'd go with Life Orb unless they start adding DD-MoxieMence or the like.
Idea: Bate Metagross to go for Earthquake with Heatran then trap it with Air Balloon Magnezone!
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Charge Beam
Pretty much just set up a Sub on Metagross then boost up with Charge beams. When either Meloetta or Thundurus-T comes in, hit them with Thunderbolt or HP Ice respectively.
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Charge Beam
Pretty much just set up a Sub on Metagross then boost up with Charge beams. When either Meloetta or Thundurus-T comes in, hit them with Thunderbolt or HP Ice respectively.
Hi guys, I haven't been posting on this thread, but I've been following the posts for a little bit. What I see here is that Team 2 has been choosing more defensive pokemon in response to Team 1's advantage of being able to choose its more offensive members first.
Accordingly, we should take a more offensive approach that forces Team 1 to shy away from its offensive attitude. With that said, I suggest:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Protect
- Quick Attack
This Terrakion is both very powerful and able to continuously threaten the opposing team. With a Life Orb, Terrakion can both outspeed and cleanly 2HKO all of Team 2 thus far with its STABs. Here are the calcs:
Thundurus: Stone Edge: 564-666 (188.62 - 222.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Meloetta: Close Combat: 315-372 (92.37 - 109.09%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
Metagross: Close Combat: 202-238 (55.49 - 65.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Metagross is the only safe switch into Terrakion because it can survive a CC, then KO back with a Bullet Punch. Here, using Protect on Terrakion lets us scout Metagross to confirm it's going for the BP (otherwise we'll finish it off), then switch into either Heatran or Rotom-W. Protect is also useful for any potential scarfers that Team 1 might later choose to add in order to check Terrakion, so that it's easier to predict. Team 1 might decide to choose Scarf Politoed to set up rain, and Terrakion makes Politoed easier to deal with (while also denting it severely on switch in).
The last move, Quick Attack, is mostly filler. Swords Dance and Rock Polish are certainly viable options but this does not help against the already offensive nature of the team. Plus, with a Metagross breathing down Terrakion's neck, it won't be comfortable to set up, because it'll be forced out later anyways. Besides, Quick Attack is priority (decent damage from Terrakion) and priority is always welcome.
As for the position this choice puts Team 1 in, it is very favorable. There are three things Team 1 can do in response:
1. Find a faster pokemon to check Terrakion
2. Use a Gliscor or Slowbro
3. Use a non-Band Scizor
For option 1, Terrakion can protect on Scarfers, while naturally faster pokemon like Starmie and Latios are already checked by the pokemon we already picked.
For option 2, this puts Team 1 in a very awkward position because it reduces the offensive nature of their team. Not only that, we already have a Rotom-W that is one of the best Gliscor switch-ins, while Celebi works great against Slowbro.
For option 3, this also puts Team 1 at a disadvantage because they are doubling up on both attacking coverage and defensive weakness because they already have a Metagross. This makes their team more exploitable and also makes Heatran a much bigger threat.
Accordingly, we should take a more offensive approach that forces Team 1 to shy away from its offensive attitude. With that said, I suggest:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Protect
- Quick Attack
This Terrakion is both very powerful and able to continuously threaten the opposing team. With a Life Orb, Terrakion can both outspeed and cleanly 2HKO all of Team 2 thus far with its STABs. Here are the calcs:
Thundurus: Stone Edge: 564-666 (188.62 - 222.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Meloetta: Close Combat: 315-372 (92.37 - 109.09%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
Metagross: Close Combat: 202-238 (55.49 - 65.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Metagross is the only safe switch into Terrakion because it can survive a CC, then KO back with a Bullet Punch. Here, using Protect on Terrakion lets us scout Metagross to confirm it's going for the BP (otherwise we'll finish it off), then switch into either Heatran or Rotom-W. Protect is also useful for any potential scarfers that Team 1 might later choose to add in order to check Terrakion, so that it's easier to predict. Team 1 might decide to choose Scarf Politoed to set up rain, and Terrakion makes Politoed easier to deal with (while also denting it severely on switch in).
The last move, Quick Attack, is mostly filler. Swords Dance and Rock Polish are certainly viable options but this does not help against the already offensive nature of the team. Plus, with a Metagross breathing down Terrakion's neck, it won't be comfortable to set up, because it'll be forced out later anyways. Besides, Quick Attack is priority (decent damage from Terrakion) and priority is always welcome.
As for the position this choice puts Team 1 in, it is very favorable. There are three things Team 1 can do in response:
1. Find a faster pokemon to check Terrakion
2. Use a Gliscor or Slowbro
3. Use a non-Band Scizor
For option 1, Terrakion can protect on Scarfers, while naturally faster pokemon like Starmie and Latios are already checked by the pokemon we already picked.
For option 2, this puts Team 1 in a very awkward position because it reduces the offensive nature of their team. Not only that, we already have a Rotom-W that is one of the best Gliscor switch-ins, while Celebi works great against Slowbro.
For option 3, this also puts Team 1 at a disadvantage because they are doubling up on both attacking coverage and defensive weakness because they already have a Metagross. This makes their team more exploitable and also makes Heatran a much bigger threat.
I like all the sets posted so far, but I think that fast mons are the best solution. The Terrakion set above may not be able to outspeed Meloetta without a Scarf. As for Ganj4IF's set, I am not to sure if we have something solid to take a STAB CB Bullet Punch. Skore's Mienshao seems decent at this point, but I think Metagross will be a thorn in our side.
Both Heatran and Rotom-W dgaf about Bullet Punches; the former takes 11% max and the latter 13% max. Rotom is a completely safe switch into Metagross, since the most threatening attack it has against it is an unstabbed, 40 base power Pursuit to deal 28.92 - 34.29%, which is absolutely laughable.
To be honest, Mienshao is only slightly better than Mamo/Terrakion at taking Bullet Punches, since it still takes 60% minimum, not enjoyable at all. Of course, Regenerator and U-Turn help, but I find more valuable the raw power of Terrakion than the relative versatility of Mienshao. Especially when base 108 outspeed it, giving Team 1 the chance to pick Keldeo or Terrakion themselves...
As TyranitarAbuser said, every set posted has its own merits, and nothing is garbage right now, in my opinion. I think that using a Protect Terrakion is a bit redundant to cover Metagross since we have a completely safe switch-in (Rotom); however, I see how Protect can help us later, when they will pick something faster like a Scarf user.
And, about pieguy's suggestion, that Magnezone is basically a copypaste of my last suggestion. It can still be viable to an extent, but it would be redundant with Rotom, that already checks Metagross easily; in any case, since voters didn't like it too much last time I think it's pointless to bring out again the DragMag concept and just go for a more standard teambuilding (or just remove our Steels in another way without resorting to Zone).
Ganj4lF posted this exact set last round; so you should probably give him credit.
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Charge Beam
Aside from that - it still has the main problem of it not being able to switch into Thundurus nor Meloetta; and the fact that this is basically "trading 1 slot for another". Magnezone needs it's balloon intact to counter Metagross, so he won't come out until Metagross hits the field; and Metagross will get trapped by 'Zone as soon as he comes out, so he won't until the balloon is popped.
EDIT: Bummer, kinda wanted to suggest Mamo. I'll think of something later.
haha, I'm stealing everyone's ideas.
I don't understand that Terrakion set by mrb though- why do protect and make it that complicated when you can just do plain SubSalac? You can still bait Metagross, and you can actually set up for a sweep. In fact, their only pokemon preventing you from setting up is the pokemon you want them to send in. Just an idea.
I don't understand that Terrakion set by mrb though- why do protect and make it that complicated when you can just do plain SubSalac? You can still bait Metagross, and you can actually set up for a sweep. In fact, their only pokemon preventing you from setting up is the pokemon you want them to send in. Just an idea.
I'm disappointed to see that Gastrodon didn't make the cut, but the next best Pokémon was indeed Rotom-W. I'm going to suggest the one Pokémon who I almost always pair with my Rotom-W, Landorus-I!
Landorus-Incarnate @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power Ice
Well, what do I need to say about this Pokémon that you've not each heard a million times before? A sick stat distribution, great typing, the classic EdgeQuake combo coming off a beautiful 125 base attack, the list just goes on.
This thing is powerful. It straight OHKOs Thundurus with Stone Edge, has a high chance to OHKO Metagross after Stealth Rocks, and 2HKOs Meloetta with U-Turn and Earthquake. It outspeeds Meloetta and Metagross and speed ties with Thundurus-T, meaning it does run the risk of being OHKOd by HP-Ice. However, this Pokémon is very much a hit-run style attacker, letting off hugely powerful Earthquakes and Stone Edges, before scampering off outta there with U-Turn and should be looking to catch Thundurus on the switch to put him out of action.
This set also forms a VoltTurn combo with Rotom-W, which as you all know is a great way to obtain and maintain offensive pressure. Having VoltTurn in your team is a great way to alleviate weaknesses that would otherwise leave our team crippled. Being about to scoot away from that pesky Water/Ice user that would otherwise threaten to KO.
I was contemplating running Expert Belt, but as this is a project in which we can see the other team's sets, the potential of faking a choice item is greatly diminished. Therefore I elected Life Orb, not wanting to put another choice user on team 2.
EV choices are simple enough: 252 speed and Naive nature to ensure it outspeeds base 100 speed and below. Pumping the rest of the EVs into attack to maximise damage.
That's all for now, if I think of anything else to add, I will edit it in.
Landorus-Incarnate @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power Ice
Well, what do I need to say about this Pokémon that you've not each heard a million times before? A sick stat distribution, great typing, the classic EdgeQuake combo coming off a beautiful 125 base attack, the list just goes on.
This thing is powerful. It straight OHKOs Thundurus with Stone Edge, has a high chance to OHKO Metagross after Stealth Rocks, and 2HKOs Meloetta with U-Turn and Earthquake. It outspeeds Meloetta and Metagross and speed ties with Thundurus-T, meaning it does run the risk of being OHKOd by HP-Ice. However, this Pokémon is very much a hit-run style attacker, letting off hugely powerful Earthquakes and Stone Edges, before scampering off outta there with U-Turn and should be looking to catch Thundurus on the switch to put him out of action.
This set also forms a VoltTurn combo with Rotom-W, which as you all know is a great way to obtain and maintain offensive pressure. Having VoltTurn in your team is a great way to alleviate weaknesses that would otherwise leave our team crippled. Being about to scoot away from that pesky Water/Ice user that would otherwise threaten to KO.
I was contemplating running Expert Belt, but as this is a project in which we can see the other team's sets, the potential of faking a choice item is greatly diminished. Therefore I elected Life Orb, not wanting to put another choice user on team 2.
EV choices are simple enough: 252 speed and Naive nature to ensure it outspeeds base 100 speed and below. Pumping the rest of the EVs into attack to maximise damage.
That's all for now, if I think of anything else to add, I will edit it in.
Thanks for that, fixed.^
28 SpA EVs are only necessary for the Expert Belt set. With LO, the KO on Gliscor is guaranteed even without investment.
We already have a great switch into Meloetta-P with Celebi, so we don't need to outspeed it. Scarf Terrakion is pretty weak compared to its other sets and can be set up pretty easily on. Also, there are way more hard counters to Scarf Terrakion. Plus, Meloetta would have to use Relic Song before we bring in Terrakion, otherwise we outspeed it and can guarantee an OHKO after one LO recoil.
I can see the merit in SubSalac, but it requires more prediction. You may sub up on Thundurus-T predicting your opponent to switch out, but they can stay in and Thunderbolt, wearing away at you until Metagross can come in and revenge kill. Subbing up on Meloetta is extremely dangerous because it can break your sub with Relic Song, then proceed to outspeed and OHKO with CC. SubSalac can only work once, which is bad because you only have 1.95% chance of 2HKOing Metagross, meaning that it'll be hard to get rid of Metagross, who impedes your sweep. Finally, SubSalac allows Scarf Techniloom (underrated threat imo) to revenge you (before the boost), which would put a LOT of pressure on Celebi (who has no reliable recovery) combined with the pressure of Thundurus-T and Meloetta.
I think Protect is a surer way of keeping Terrakion alive to dish more damage and to scout Choiced pokes (like Metagross and their inevitable scarfer) so that we can switch to the appropriate pokemon.
Also, Rotom-W may be able to switch into Metagross safely, but having multiple possible switch-ins (by scouting) makes you more unpredictable so that your opponent cannot simply double switch predicting the Rotom-W switch.
Oh, sorry about that. I've only been looking at this thread a little bit so didn't see that. But yea, credit to him.
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce / Stone Edge
So I too think a strong physical attacker would benefit Team two and after a little pondering I decided on Gyarados! The Atrocious Pokemon would be able to totally set up on the enemy Metagross and cause some serious damage.
The reason for the dash on Bounce / Stone Edge is because Team One has two dashes on Thundurus-T and Meloetta designated for Thunder or Thunderbolt; Thunder hits Gyarados whilst it is Bouncing so I think its only fair that if they are able to decide on the choice of Thunder later, then we should be able to change Bounce to Stone Edge.
Actually, it requires less prediction than you'd think- of course Thundurus-T is going to switch out if you come in on a Nasty Plot, because you outspeed an can OHKO with Stone Edge without any boosts. Substitute is enough for Terrakion IMO, because it already outspeeds all of team 1 and the only situation where you'd ever have to use Protect is if Metagross comes in to revenge kill. Still, it's your submission, so you can do it however you want.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce / Stone Edge
So I too think a strong physical attacker would benefit Team two and after a little pondering I decided on Gyarados! The Atrocious Pokemon would be able to totally set up on the enemy Metagross and cause some serious damage.
The reason for the dash on Bounce / Stone Edge is because Team One has two dashes on Thundurus-T and Meloetta designated for Thunder or Thunderbolt; Thunder hits Gyarados whilst it is Bouncing so I think its only fair that if they are able to decide on the choice of Thunder later, then we should be able to change Bounce to Stone Edge.
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce / Stone Edge
So I too think a strong physical attacker would benefit Team two and after a little pondering I decided on Gyarados! The Atrocious Pokemon would be able to totally set up on the enemy Metagross and cause some serious damage.
The reason for the dash on Bounce / Stone Edge is because Team One has two dashes on Thundurus-T and Meloetta designated for Thunder or Thunderbolt; Thunder hits Gyarados whilst it is Bouncing so I think its only fair that if they are able to decide on the choice of Thunder later, then we should be able to change Bounce to Stone Edge.
Gyarados is an ok option, but I still don't like it as much as mamoswine or terrakion. It can't take a Thunderbolt from Meloetta or a Thunderbolt from Thundurus-T- the only pokemon it can handle is Metagross. Its speed is also meddling. If you're going to use Moxie, having a Scarf is probably a better option. If you're going to use Intimidate, use Landorus.
Of all offensive, physical pokes that can put pressure on Team 1, Landorus-I is the least appealing to me. Its typing is great, compared to other suggestions, but it has a good share of problems. First of all, its ability is basically useless since it's quite clear that sand won't be used in this match-up. Second, and most important, even if you predict correctly and switch into a NP from Thundurus, you basically have a 50% chance to have a full HP Thundurus with a NP under its belt. Most of the other sets suggested easily outspeed and OHKO with a super effective move; why choose one of those offensive pokemons that can't do so? Mienshao is often overlooked, but it's still a great U-Turner, and can use Regenerator to heal residual damage (I'm not sure we're going to include a spinner), and can outspeed Thundurus easily; Terrakion can do the same, albeit not being able to U-Turn (not even going into Mamoswine, since priority solves all those problems). If you don't like it, you can use Infernape or some sort of Azelf to do the trick. They have their own problems, but at least don't rely on a tricky speed tie to handle Thundurus (which seems the most dangerous Team 1 member till this point), and can still complete a VoltTurn core.
Landorus-Incarnate @ Life Orb
Speaking of monkeys with fire coming out of their heads...
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sheer Force
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Superpower
The sheer force (get it?) of this thing is incredible. Flare blitz hits like a radioactive truck filled with flaming ninjas on steroids - scoring an OHKO on every poke on Team 1 so far; and will deal massive amounts of damage to anything that doesn't resist it unless Team 1 decides to use rain.
475 speed means Darmanitan possesses a pretty quick U-turn useful for scouting early. Using Jolly instead of Adamant allows Darmanitan to outspeed a few threats, such as +1 Salamance, who is OHKOed by Rock Slide or Stone Edge after SR. Speaking of these attacks - while Rock Slide is my preferred option due to it being 10% more accurate; I put Stone Edge as a slash because it can OHKO Thundurus-T without SR on the field - something Rock Slide won't let us achieve; and Thundy seems to be a priority right now. Superpower simply grants good coverage.
While Darmanitan is not going to be able to come in on anything because of his 55/55 defenses, I feel he is a good option for Team 2 because he completes a VoltTurn core with Rotom-W, puts a lot of pressure on our opponent and, damn it, it's about time Team 2 got a physical attacker.
And now, for some criticism.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't feel Magnezone is a good option because of the fact that he needs an unpopped balloon to survive Metagross' attacks. This means that 'Zone won't come out until 'Gross comes out, and 'Gross won't pop his head out until 'Zone's balloon is popped; effectively trading 1 slot for another.
Landorus would be a great partner for this team; except for the fact that we may as well be flipping a coin when trying to take out Thundurus. Everything so far on Team 2 can get destroyed by it, and so far our only 'mon that outspeeds is Rotom-W; who may not be able to score a KO even after rocks.
Gyarados gets destroyed by both Thundy and Meloetta's electric attacks, and he can't set up on 'Gross if he's locked into Meteor Mash (2HKO); but is otherwise a good option that forces Team 1 to pick something that can outspeed and OHKO at +1.
Really liking both Mienshao. He completes a VoltTurn core, has regenerator to keep himself healthy, and is capable of dealing massive damage with HJK.
Although Protect is a questionable choice at best on Terrakion, it prevents Metagross from Bullet Punching him to death, so I won't complain. He doesn't complete a VoltTurn core like Mienshao; but his massive physical damage makes up for it.
I love Darmanitan, but rain could easily be used on team 1 and that would severely hurt it's usage, making me think that Terrakion or Mamoswine would be better choices.Speaking of monkeys with fire coming out of their heads...
Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sheer Force
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Superpower
The sheer force (get it?) of this thing is incredible. Flare blitz hits like a radioactive truck filled with flaming ninjas on steroids - scoring an OHKO on every poke on Team 1 so far; and will deal massive amounts of damage to anything that doesn't resist it unless Team 1 decides to use rain.
475 speed means Darmanitan possesses a pretty quick U-turn useful for scouting early. Using Jolly instead of Adamant allows Darmanitan to outspeed a few threats, such as Salamance, who is OHKOed by Rock Slide or Stone Edge after SR. Speaking of these attacks - while Rock Slide is my preferred option due to it being 10% more accurate; I put Stone Edge as a slash because it can OHKO Thundurus-T without SR on the field - something Rock Slide won't let us achieve; and Thundy seems to be a priority right now. Superpower simply grants good coverage.
While Darmanitan is not going to be able to come in on anything because of his 55/55 defenses, I feel he is a good option for Team 2 because he completes a VoltTurn core with Rotom-W, puts a lot of pressure on our opponent and, damn it, it's about time Team 2 got a physical attacker.
EDIT: ninja'd by above
Mamoswine is a better choice, no doubt - but the point of this is to suggest different pokes :P
If Team 1 decides to use Rain to shut down Darmanitan for good; we can pick Kingdra or Pineapple Mariachi Duck and abuse their rain against them with ridiculous speed and damage; or use a weather inducer of our own, though!
If Team 1 decides to use Rain to shut down Darmanitan for good; we can pick Kingdra or Pineapple Mariachi Duck and abuse their rain against them with ridiculous speed and damage; or use a weather inducer of our own, though!
Going to have to highly discourage Darmanitan. It's certainly powerful but the real draw to Darmanitan is sun support. Imo, putting Darmanitan on the team basically assures us that Team 1 will use Politoed (and it can certainly use it to its advantage as we can see by the team so far). If Ninetales would have been Team 2's third member then I can see Darmanitan being a viable option to rape all of existing Team 1 but that's neither here nor there. Oh and, for the record, Darmanitan will always be using Rock Slide, not Stone Edge, as the difference in damage is miniscule and its accuracy is much, much better.
We're going to move onto voting now. Here's our list:
Electrolyte's Mamoswine
ganj4lF's Terrakion
Skore's Mienshao
mrb's Terrakion
PapaBearAds's Landorus-I
Joeyboy's Gyarados
ClubbingSealCub's Darmanitan
To vote, simply post the name of the user who posted the set in bold. For instance, If I wanted to vote for mrb's Terrakion, my post would look like this (lol, I accidentally typed 'shit'):
mrb
That's it, literally. Do not suggest any further sets and don't complain about any of the choices. Anyone can vote, even those who suggested sets. You are allowed to vote for your own set and nobody's going to think you are an asshole -- just make sure to read up on the other sets and make sure that your choice is definitely the best. Let's see some votes!
We're going to move onto voting now. Here's our list:
Electrolyte's Mamoswine
ganj4lF's Terrakion
Skore's Mienshao
mrb's Terrakion
PapaBearAds's Landorus-I
Joeyboy's Gyarados
ClubbingSealCub's Darmanitan
To vote, simply post the name of the user who posted the set in bold. For instance, If I wanted to vote for mrb's Terrakion, my post would look like this (lol, I accidentally typed 'shit'):
mrb
That's it, literally. Do not suggest any further sets and don't complain about any of the choices. Anyone can vote, even those who suggested sets. You are allowed to vote for your own set and nobody's going to think you are an asshole -- just make sure to read up on the other sets and make sure that your choice is definitely the best. Let's see some votes!