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October 14th, Last chance for help?
- Thread starter Golden Piloswine
- Start date
Ready for ratin'
Cresselia sets up Trick Room nicely, too, but with so many fakeout users, you need a ghost to set it up. Jellicent is good, but I'd think Duskclops has better defensive stats. While I can't recall Jellicent being OHKOed very often first round, a good grass attack or dark attack and a fair followup kills it before TR can go off.
It is worth noting that too many of your guys aren't TR players. Rage Powder doesn't work against spread moves, and Volcarona bites it to common weather-supported attacks - rock, water, fire... Amoongus seems more like what you need, and can even be sweet w/ Regenerator and a quiet nature.
Porygon2 seems much better than Zapdos for dropping thunderbolt... and setting up TR for that matter.
It is worth noting that too many of your guys aren't TR players. Rage Powder doesn't work against spread moves, and Volcarona bites it to common weather-supported attacks - rock, water, fire... Amoongus seems more like what you need, and can even be sweet w/ Regenerator and a quiet nature.
Porygon2 seems much better than Zapdos for dropping thunderbolt... and setting up TR for that matter.
^ Thanks, but if you read the team building, I want to avoid using super-standard Pokemon like Cresselia, and Porygon2. You are right that Rage Powder does'nt affect spread moves, but I can usually predict spread moves, and only two of my Pokemon are'nt TR, I don't believe in a full tilt TR team.
1. why are you not using lightningrod/why do you say low kick is banned; also try bonemerang>earthquake sometime
2. cress>musharna (you're not even using discharge on zapdos to take advantage of telepathy)
3. protect<bullet punch on hariyama because you lack priority outside of fake out
4. cursed body>water absorb and protect<recover on jellicent because it's better imo (although i'll admit it WOULD give you a free switch in on surfs aimed at marowak)
5. why are you using max speed stuff when YOU'RE USING A TRICK ROOM TEAM? i realize you'd sometimes want to forgo TR, but you can't really do much with the non-TR members you have
6. you have no weather control so either slap sunny day on some random mon or use ttar/abomasnow over either zapdos or volcarona
7. rain+ferro can wreak your team right now. sure you have guts hariyama but toxic+close combat pretty much guarantee it's not living for long anyway
thats all for now
2. cress>musharna (you're not even using discharge on zapdos to take advantage of telepathy)
3. protect<bullet punch on hariyama because you lack priority outside of fake out
4. cursed body>water absorb and protect<recover on jellicent because it's better imo (although i'll admit it WOULD give you a free switch in on surfs aimed at marowak)
5. why are you using max speed stuff when YOU'RE USING A TRICK ROOM TEAM? i realize you'd sometimes want to forgo TR, but you can't really do much with the non-TR members you have
6. you have no weather control so either slap sunny day on some random mon or use ttar/abomasnow over either zapdos or volcarona
7. rain+ferro can wreak your team right now. sure you have guts hariyama but toxic+close combat pretty much guarantee it's not living for long anyway
thats all for now
Avoiding "standard pokemon" for no reason other than to avoid them might be cool around your kitchen table, but it defeats the purpose of these threads. Calling Cresselia and Porygon2 common pokemon is laughable.
Predicting spread moves doesn't stop them. You have no wide guard, and are going to get plowed under by them.
Best of luck, but unshackle yourself.
Predicting spread moves doesn't stop them. You have no wide guard, and are going to get plowed under by them.
Best of luck, but unshackle yourself.
@lucariojr
1. I'm not using Lightingrod cause I have Thunderbolt on Zapdos, and I'd rather be predicte by crits. Sometime back to I asked voodoopimp about it and he said that it was fine with Battle Armor. Low Kick is banned because Bw2 tutors are banned, and Marowak has a DW ability.
2. I tested Discharge, Ii'd rather have a single aim move, plus if Jellicent gets hit...
3. I'll try that.
4. I'm sticking with Jellicent the way it is, but I will try the Recover.
5. Once TR runs out, I'll need the speed advantage.
6. Weather Control, Jellicent is good for rain, and has super-efective moves against the ground, rock types of sand, and fire types, I might run T-Tar over Zapdos so thanks for that.
7. Ok
@ labarith, I do not want a standard team with Cress it's way to easy to predict, and in my opinion Musharna is better except for statistical bulk, and mild move pool disadvantages. Mush is easy to predict to but not as easy as Cress. Thank you both for the critiques though, I'd love to battle you guys sometime.
1. I'm not using Lightingrod cause I have Thunderbolt on Zapdos, and I'd rather be predicte by crits. Sometime back to I asked voodoopimp about it and he said that it was fine with Battle Armor. Low Kick is banned because Bw2 tutors are banned, and Marowak has a DW ability.
2. I tested Discharge, Ii'd rather have a single aim move, plus if Jellicent gets hit...
3. I'll try that.
4. I'm sticking with Jellicent the way it is, but I will try the Recover.
5. Once TR runs out, I'll need the speed advantage.
6. Weather Control, Jellicent is good for rain, and has super-efective moves against the ground, rock types of sand, and fire types, I might run T-Tar over Zapdos so thanks for that.
7. Ok
@ labarith, I do not want a standard team with Cress it's way to easy to predict, and in my opinion Musharna is better except for statistical bulk, and mild move pool disadvantages. Mush is easy to predict to but not as easy as Cress. Thank you both for the critiques though, I'd love to battle you guys sometime.
Creativity is a major part of a good team as it gives you an easy facet to outplay your opponent. However, if one Pokemon performs a role better than another, then replacing it with a lesser option isn't creative; it's purposefully inhibiting yourself. Musharna has a few niches here and there thanks to its lower Speed and greater Special Attack, but for what you're using it for (almost raw support), Cresselia does it better. Musharna is actually more predictable than Cresselia, not less, as Cresselia can run other options like Thunder Wave and Icy Wind and ignore Trick Room altogether. Cresselia is the stronger option for your team if you plan on just using a raw Trick Room support set; you should use it.
Musharna @ Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
Sassy
Telepathy
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 6 Def (you can probably fiddle with a damage calculator for better EVs)
-Trick Room
-Gravity
-Hypnosis
-Psychic / Helping Hand
Marowak @ Thick Club
Brave
LightningRod / Rock Head
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
-Sing
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Protect
The name of the game here is to set up Trick Room, then immediately set up Gravity with Musharna and start putting things to sleep with accuracy boosted Sleeping moves. Beyond that, the rest is fairly self explanitory. The only difficult part is securing the Marowak, as you'll need to get it from Pokemon XD where it snags it as an event move.
Sassy
Telepathy
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 6 Def (you can probably fiddle with a damage calculator for better EVs)
-Trick Room
-Gravity
-Hypnosis
-Psychic / Helping Hand
Marowak @ Thick Club
Brave
LightningRod / Rock Head
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
-Sing
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Protect
The name of the game here is to set up Trick Room, then immediately set up Gravity with Musharna and start putting things to sleep with accuracy boosted Sleeping moves. Beyond that, the rest is fairly self explanitory. The only difficult part is securing the Marowak, as you'll need to get it from Pokemon XD where it snags it as an event move.
I really don't like the look of Jellicent on the team. If you're using it for anti-rain support, it's going to fall very quickly. Pretty much every competent Rain team carries a few Grass and Electric-type moves to deal with more deadly anti-rain threats like Gastrodon.
Latios also looks to be a huge problem for your team. While you do have two Pokemon that can hit him for super-effective damage, neither of them take Draco Meteors well and both are too slow to outspeed Latios. To remedy both this problem and give you a more sturdy defense against Rain, I suggest swapping Jellicent out for a Ferrothorn.
Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry / Leftovers
Relaxed
Iron Barbs
252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpDef
-Gyro Ball
-Power Whip
-Leech Seed
-Protect
I don't think it's an overstatement to say that Ferrothorn is the single best answer to rain around. It resists Grass, Water, and Electric-type moves Rain teams love to thrown around and it only takes neutral damage from Ice. Ferrothorn can also dish out a fair amount of damage between it's two STABs, and unlike Jellicent, it can do huge amount of damage to Rain teams in a short period of time. What's best is that if you ever find yourself in a sticky situation, Ferrothorn can go into Stall mode on a dime and refuse to die. You'll give up a secondary Trick Room inducer, but your team doesn't really rely on Trick Room to the point where a second one would be necessary when you have some quicker Pokemon in reserve.
I agree with Lucariojr's recommendation, although you could also consider replacing Ice Punch instead to squeeze Bullet Punch on there. Also try out a Flame Orb over a Toxic Orb. From personal experience, you'd be surprised how long Hariyama can stay out on the field.
Finally, as much as I love Rage Powder Volcarona, it seems unnecessary with a Fake Out user by your side. Consider changing Rage Powder to Quiver Dance, Timid to Modest, and your Focus Sash to a Charti Berry. With all three of those at the ready, you can run an interesting TopMoth-esc core alongside Hariyama, giving you another interesting option to use outside of Trick Room.
Thanks Mantyke! I have a question about the Musharna, Marowak set. Why Gravity, and why accuracy boosted moves, because I though Sing, and hypnosis were horrible accuracy moves. Can you please elaborate on how Gravity affects these mons. I'll try Ferrothorn over Jellicent, I just thought that it was a nice niche because of the many methods it has of HP recovery, and Water Spout. I'm not sure about the orb's for Hariyama. In my eyes I think that there equal, so I'll have to play around with that a bit. I'll try Charti Berry Volcarona! Thanks!
Gravity lowers evasion of all Pokémon by two stages, effectively increasing the accuracy of all moves by 5/3. So Hypnosis would be 100% accurate and Sing would be 91.67% accurate. It also would make Flying-types susceptible to Earthquake, while keeping Musharna immune since it doesn't affect Telepathy.
Ah, thanks Voodo! This will be a great help!
Cresselia is one of the most common Pokemon ever in VGC, I don't know what you're talking about.
I agree with other people above me in that you should probably go full-on Trick Room with your team, Zapdos and Volcarona aren't going to work. Cresselia >>>>>>>> Musharna, and as been stated, being unique and winning are two different things. Marowak ABSOLUTELY NEEDS Lightningrod, no question. You're also going to need something to deal with Taunt users, as they will destroy Trick Room.
That's about all I have to say.
Zapdos works darn good especially with a Helping hand, Electric Gem STAB Discharge, with Musharna's Telepathy. Volcarona I have yet to see work well. I did'nt give it Lightingrod because crits hate Marowak, with taunt users I have Mental Herb to help cushion the effect, and predict the user since there is typically 1 per team. I mostly use Jellicent as the primary user to avoid Fake Out, and Hariyama to Fake OUt potential Taunt users.
To labarith: No offense, but even with my first few RMT's, (Which I admit were not good) you constantly say something like Calling Cress is laughable, and Protect does'nt get you wins, it gets you, not losses. I mean both these statements are incorrect. Cress showed up against me 5 out of 8 times at Philly, and Protect is a really useful move. I don't understand the logic.
To labarith: No offense, but even with my first few RMT's, (Which I admit were not good) you constantly say something like Calling Cress is laughable, and Protect does'nt get you wins, it gets you, not losses. I mean both these statements are incorrect. Cress showed up against me 5 out of 8 times at Philly, and Protect is a really useful move. I don't understand the logic.
I am also open to anyone who would like to give me sugestions to replace Volcarona, even though it's shiny, sniffle...
Chesto/Rest > Moonlight I would think...Use Cresselia. I don't care how much you want to avoid it. It is a VGC GOD.
God (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Moonlight
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Thunder Wave
Tested this team some more on GBU, major weakness to sun, how should I handle it? Rain is pretty good though, I have'nt lost against it as of yet.
You haven't lost to rain? What 4 do you pick?
And have you updated/changed your team yet? (I ask because I just assume you should be using Cresselia because it's less predictable than Mushy...)
Generally speaking, if you have access to BW2, Jellicent with Giga Drain's not a bad idea... probably over Protect (Seriously, you're TR, you're on a clock. You don't put out pokemon unless you're going to use 'em). (Also, I'm shocked you don't have Ice Beam > Shadow Ball...).
And have you updated/changed your team yet? (I ask because I just assume you should be using Cresselia because it's less predictable than Mushy...)
Generally speaking, if you have access to BW2, Jellicent with Giga Drain's not a bad idea... probably over Protect (Seriously, you're TR, you're on a clock. You don't put out pokemon unless you're going to use 'em). (Also, I'm shocked you don't have Ice Beam > Shadow Ball...).
Have you implemented any of the suggestions you've been given yet? From my suggestions alone, I can see at least two options to get a really nice head start on sun.
You could:
- Start with Hariyama / Marowak and Cresselia (assuming it has the exact same moveset as your Cresselia).
- Have Marowak Protect or Hariyama Fake Out turn one while Cresselia Trick Rooms.
- Either set up a Light Screen to support your team mates or start using Helping Hand boosted attacks
Or:
- Start with Hariyama + Volcarona (now with Quiver Dance over Rage Powder).
- Fake Out one Pokemon while Volcarona Quiver Dances and your Flame / Toxic Orb activates
- Start throwing around boosted Heat Waves and Bug Buzzes while Hariyama is Close Combatting and Bullet Punching things.
Also, if you'd like to share battle video numbers of some of your endeavors, we could try to give you more in depth advice.
Moonlight does just fine on it's own, and it's not just a one-time heal. It can be used again and again.
To Labarith: Actually I've noticed that Musharna works good, and I have tried Cresselia. It makes it hard for me to set up TR because some other Cresselia uses it to, so I prefer Jellicent to set up TR.
to TheMantyke: I have a battle video here, not very good quality, and is before I used Cresselia, it is against non standard rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXB_A4h2te8&feature=plcp
Also to TheMantyke: thanks, I'll update the team, but I like the cushion of Telepathy as you see in the video above, I'll do some more battle with Cress, and see which one I like more.
to TheMantyke: I have a battle video here, not very good quality, and is before I used Cresselia, it is against non standard rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXB_A4h2te8&feature=plcp
Also to TheMantyke: thanks, I'll update the team, but I like the cushion of Telepathy as you see in the video above, I'll do some more battle with Cress, and see which one I like more.
I'll post more vids soon.
Edited
From what I see this is not a dedicated TR team, so keeping full-speed Mons is not a bad thing, tho I'd have a few suggestions.
I think Gravity is one of the most underrated moves in whole metagame. TheMantyke's fantastic idea seems to have potential to improve your team. Nobody is prepared for Gravity because not many people use it, and it seems to fit your team perfectly.
You seem to lack second speed control method. You said you don't wanna use overused Pokemon like Cresselia, so I won't suggest you to use a T-Wave Thundurus. If i were you I'd try this out:
Scumbag (Liepard) @ Focus Sash/Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252/0/128/0/128/0 (or any you wish)
- Fake Out/Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Swagger/Encore
- Foul Play/Protect
This kitty allows you to troll opponents and create opportunities for your teammates very easily. Prankster + Encore is a great thing to have, especially against Fake Out users, Swagger + Foul Play combination may be vary painful to fight against. Not to mention how good this shiny Liepard looks.
I think Gravity is one of the most underrated moves in whole metagame. TheMantyke's fantastic idea seems to have potential to improve your team. Nobody is prepared for Gravity because not many people use it, and it seems to fit your team perfectly.
You seem to lack second speed control method. You said you don't wanna use overused Pokemon like Cresselia, so I won't suggest you to use a T-Wave Thundurus. If i were you I'd try this out:
Scumbag (Liepard) @ Focus Sash/Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252/0/128/0/128/0 (or any you wish)
- Fake Out/Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Swagger/Encore
- Foul Play/Protect
This kitty allows you to troll opponents and create opportunities for your teammates very easily. Prankster + Encore is a great thing to have, especially against Fake Out users, Swagger + Foul Play combination may be vary painful to fight against. Not to mention how good this shiny Liepard looks.