OU Shenanigans (Weatherless)

[BlankZero]

So I play OU now. It's a fun game, if a bit predictable at times. I don't like weather though. I feel it's very overdone and I'd like to get my team up to defeating it, without becoming anti-weather.

So far, I've changed this team at least a dozen times, every time I tweak it a bit better, but I've hit a bit of a wall. That's where I need Smogon's help.

Let's go over the team, shall we?

Hide

Lando Calrisian (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SpAtk / 4 HP
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
Timid Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- HP Ice

After a lot (really lots) of testing, I found RP Lando-I to be my best fit, reason being that I needed a good Special Sweeper, and this guy is like Nidoking on PCP with a Jetpack. Honestly, if he had the Poison Immunity Nido has, he'd be Uber Tier (exaggeration for great effect). So ya, this is my Special Sweeper. Come in on an Electric or Ground attack (very common in Rain I've found} and hit the win button. CM up once or twice on setup bait and even Genesect can't get you with one shot.

Hide

Blob (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpDef / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic
- Heal Bell

Kind of disappointing, I know. Standard Wish Pass Cleric Chansey. Clericy pokemon to wish pass to Ferrothorn/heal all those statuses I collect.

Hide

Whirligig (Starmie) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Spinner. High Speed Revenger. EBelt coverage. this guy is just too good to replace. And believe me, I've tried.

Hide

Scizor (Bruce Campbell) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Adamant Nature
-Bullet Punch
-U turn
-Pursuit
-Swords Dance

Named after one of my favorite actors, who is also a general badass. LO SD Scizor kills everything, especially Terrakion, Lati@s, and anything else it can trap with Pursuit+Technician Boost.

Here's some numbers for you. Note, these are all BEFORE Swords Dance factored in.

252Atk Life Orb  Technician [B]Scizor[/B] (+Atk) [B]Pursuit[/B] vs 4HP/0Def  Levitate [B]Latios[/B] (Neutral): 74% - 88% (226 - 266 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb  Technician [B]Scizor[/B] (+Atk) [B]Pursuit[/B] vs 252HP/0Def  Levitate [B]Latias[/B] (Neutral): 56% - 65% (204 - 240 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb  Technician [B]Scizor[/B] (+Atk) [B]Pursuit[/B] vs 252HP/0Def  Levitate switching [B]Latias[/B] (Neutral): 74% - 88% (272 - 322 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb  Technician [B]Scizor[/B] (+Atk) [B]U-turn[/B] vs 252HP/0Def  Levitate [B]Latias[/B] (Neutral): 97% - 115% (356 - 422 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 87% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Life Orb  Technician [B]Scizor[/B] (+Atk) [B]U-turn[/B] vs 252HP/252Def  [B]Reuniclus[/B] (+Def): 66% - 78% (282 - 332 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (2HKO on Reuniclus with maxed Bulk)
252Atk Life Orb  Technician [B]Scizor[/B] (+Atk) [B]Bullet Punch[/B] vs 0HP/0Def  [B]Terrakion[/B] (Neutral): 94% - 111% (306 - 360 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 68% chance to OHKO. (Guaranteed after 1 layer of spikes, or even just SR.)

Overall, Scizor is STILL a BAMF, even in this new age of faster, and some more bulky opposition.

Hide

Ferrous Bueller (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

I cannot tell you how much I love this thing. So many Espeons die left and right to this guy, expecting to reflect a Status or a hazard, only to eat a Gyro Ball to the face, head, and neck. Rocky Helm is also very nice when I need Death Fodder versus something like a Terrakion or Garchomp on a Sweep. Barbs and Helm knock off a good chunk of HP (a little over 30%), and Hazards don't hurt either.

Hide

Bullysaurus Rex(Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry/Yache Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Hasty Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Outrage

MoxieMence. All it does is win! Not really, but it is fantastically powerful, and if it scores a kill, Attack Boost! This guy can really threaten an opponent like no one's business, especially mid-game, or even as a late-game cleaner. Not much else to say really. Good coverage, powerful, super quick. One of the fastest +1 Dragons, and at +2, it's GG. Unless Mamoswine is out, but even then, Yache Berry variants might hold out against non-Sashed Mamos. I haven't run those numbers myself, so no guarantees. But really, unless you run ScarfedMence for some reason, run DDance.

OTHER PAST MEMBERS

Hide

Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpAt / 4 SpDef
Calm Nature
-Spikes
-Psycho Boost
-Toxic
-Recover

Stall Spiker Deo-D. This guy did a lot for me, but didn't fit into my overall team. I already have Blissey as a great Special Wall, and Ferrothorn can Spike or Rock, depending on my needs at the time. A secondary Hazard with near-guarantee was great, but this guy didn't quite cut it.

Hide

Heatran @ Leftovers/Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAt / 4 Spd
Timid Nature
-Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Toxic
-Roar

A fun Phazer, who I kind of miss in my current team, but doesn't bring quite enough to come back in right now.

Hide

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: I forgot to copy/paste, so I don't really remember.
Timid Nature
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon
-HP Fire

Steel Killer. Trap and Burn.

Hide

Jets (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
EVs: 144 SAtk / 112 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Scarf Genesect. Standard set is standard. Just doesn't pull its weight on a team like this.

Hide

Blob (Chansey) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpDef / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic
- Heal Bell

Wishpass Blissey replaced by Chansey.

POSSIBLE REPLACEMENTS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyhow, that's my team as it stands. Feel free to rate, leave me suggestions, Luvdisc, etc.

It's not a FABULOUS team, but it is halfway decent.

Let me know what you see.

SHOUTOUTS
*Dr Ciel for the EV spread on Lando, the Item Change on Starmie, and the Forretress Discussion.

*Shurtugal for the great back-and-forth and suggestions, even if I didn't like some of them, they still gave full, importable sets and reasoning behind them all.

*Arcticblast and A dude for helping with my Blissey dilemma.

*Trinitrotoluene for the newer Lando EVs, the Blissey EVs, and the MoxieMence recommendation.

*Everyone else for your contributions, big and small.

 

[Dr Ciel]

Hey there and really great weatherless team you got there! I really like the use of Rock Polish Landorus as alate game sweeper, as it has become very popular since Sheer Force was released. Anyways, this team team seems to be very well put together, and it shows that you know what you are doing so kudos to you on that. Alright, I must say that non-weather teams are my favourite teams to rate, as they have tons of sweepers and you really have to think them out, unlike weather teams, where you can use generic stuff and call it a team. Okay, I've done my fair share of rambling before I even got to the rate, so let's not keep you waiting any longer, alright? Okay, when I take a glance at your team, I am not seeing any weakness, so I'll just suggest some EV and moveset changes, and my changes may result in you changing of a Pokemon or two, so please bear with me throughout. Okay, to kick things off, on Landorus, the EV spread is very messy, so I'd just go with the classic 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd over your current one. This one allows you to outspeed most threats in the tier, while still maintaining its offensive presence. Moving on, I would use an Expert Belt or Life Orb over your current item of Leftovers. With a Life Orb or Expert Belt equipped, Starmie can raise its damage output at the cost of some HP (With Life Orb) or raise the damage output of its supereffective moves (With Expert Belt). On your Ferrothorn, you're running Thunder Wave + Gyro Ball, which works off your speed, and Thunder Wave reduces your opponents speed, which reduces Gyro Balls damage output. For the aftermentioned reasons, I suggest that you use Toxic over Thunder Wave. Toxic helps you outstall most threats in the OU metagame nowadays. Lastly, if you're going to keep Dragonite, I'd highly suggest using a Lum Berry over your current item choice of Life Orb. Lum Berry guarantees a free round of Outrage, as it removes the nasty confusion side effect that Outrage causes. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I really hope that my advice helped. Have fun and good luck with your team!

~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)

 

[BlankZero]

I appreciate the rate! I would disagree on the "no weaknesses" bit, just due to having run into a few pokemon (mainly Scarf Terrakion and Jirachi) that give me headaches to no end, but I'm sure it's probably just my lack of skill showing on that.

Okay, to kick things off, on Landorus, the EV spread is very messy, so I'd just go with the classic 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd over your current one. This one allows you to outspeed most threats in the tier, while still maintaining its offensive presence.

My original idea was to hit some kind of benchmarks defensively. I feel Lando is pretty frail (especially versus Ice) and was trying to at least give him something to work with there. After a CM or 2, I wanted to be able to withstand an Ice Beam from Genesect, or even a Hydro Pump from Rotom-W. I'll give the basic EVs a shot though too, and I'm still not sold on Special Lando over Double Dance Therian Forme. That's gonna take a lot of testing though.

Expert Belt or Life Orb over your current item of Leftovers. With a Life Orb or Expert Belt equipped, Starmie can raise its damage output at the cost of some HP (With Life Orb) or raise the damage output of its supereffective moves (With Expert Belt).

Honestly, Leftovers helps Starmie. A lot. I know it doesn't seem like it, but without Recover, or Blissey having Wish support (for now), Starmie is pretty frail, and Hazards really hurt my team enough for me to care, or I'd just move her out in favor of, say, Moxie Gyrados, as it would fit the same coverage role, but hit harder (Scarfed Waterfall+Moxie), although the coverage isn't quite there yes I know Ice Fang/Waterfall/TBolt iknowiknowiknow...

Toxic over Thunder Wave. Toxic helps you outstall most threats in the OU metagame nowadays.

I've been working on this actually. A lot of this set changed when I got Deo-D out of the team, which is another reason I'm struggling with Terrakion, but I needed more power to the team (at least I think so), and Deo-D had Toxic. Ferrothorn has TWave mainly as party support. It has saved my ass a few times when something got Parahaxed for 2 turns and let me sweep through them. I'll try Toxic though. Ferro's job got a bit harder when I replaced Deo-D though.

Lum Berry over your current item choice of Life Orb. Lum Berry guarantees a free round of Outrage, as it removes the nasty confusion side effect that Outrage causes.

I actually hadn't thought of that before! I actually might be trading DNite out for Salamence, but I'm still debating the moce set for both of them, so it's a tough call.

Well, that's all I have to say for now. I really hope that my advice helped. Have fun and good luck with your team!

Once again, I appreciate it! I'll do some testing later on and make changes (and document them) as I go.

 

[linkhawkins]

I have been using your Blissey but with a slight alteration to the EVs.

EVs: 20 HP / 200 Def / 56 SAtk

It gives it a lot of needed OHKO's including on Landorus species.

 

[Shurtugal]

Hello! I like the use of CM Landorus so I will go for the rate.

The Problem

The first problem I notice is a lack of stealth rock. The move is the most important move in the game, and without it, you're going to struggle against most teams (both offensive and stall). Secondly, I see you lack a punch of speed to actually pull of offensive sweeps, and this seems like an offensive-built team to me, so this is a huge problem. Let's not forget that Genesect will probably win against most members of this team, with only Blissey for walling. Nothing likes taking banded hits from Terrakion, as both Ferro and Bliss suffer from a Fighting type weakness and Starmie is 2HKO'ed by banded CC. Tornadus-T also owns this team except, again, for Blissey. You're standard Torn-T / Gene / Duggy will easily sweep and you can't do anything about it. Also, Sun sweeps you day and night. So you need some big changes, but I see some potential here, so no need to worry! Let's get into what we can do to fix these problems!

The Rate

Magnezone seems very useless on this team. Seriously, what is it doing that CM Lando isn't? CM Lando removes just about every defensive Pokemon you can dream of, even Chansey, so it can pretty much eliminate you're everyday steel types with no problems at all. With that said, I think it's time we find a more suitable member than your current Magnezone. I think Scarf Genesect over Magnezone is a good idea. For starters, it completley helps against Tornadus-T, it offers revenge killing, some amazing coverage, and U-turn. At best it can also check opposing Genesect, and counter the Non-Scarf varients. However, you still have many problems with this team. I really don't like the dragon lead in Dragonite, why not use something like LO + Roost Latios? Latios offers you that big power and boom, and counters problematic Pokemon like Terrakion / Keldeo with ease, and checks sun teams (which you currently lose to). I would add Stealth Rock over Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn so you can actually stop Torn-T from switch spamming you and from a Volca sweep. With the loss of Dragonite, you can actually afford to sack Starmie. I would go with Bulky Attacker Rotom-W in steed, so you can actually use a Volt-Turn core to make this team more aggressive and have back up to Torn-T's Hurricane.

I hoped I helped and GL!

Sets:

[B]Latios[/B] @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
 
~ Draco Meteor
~ Psyshock
~ Surf
~ Roost
 
[B]Genesect[/B] @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
Nature: Naive
EVs: 112 Atk / 144 SAtk / 252 Spe
 
~ U-turn
~ Ice Beam
~ Flamethrower
~ Thunderbolt / Iron Head
 
[B]Rotom-W[/B] @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 138 Hp / 144 SAtk / 224 Spe
 
~ Hydro Pump
~ Volt-Switch
~ WoW / TWave
~ Rest

 

[Arcticblast]

Just pointing out that Heal Bell and Wish are legal together on Blissey. Looks like a nice team.

 

[BlankZero]

I'll respond to the short ones first.

Just pointing out that Heal Bell and Wish are legal together on Blissey. Looks like a nice team.

I have been using your bliss but with a slight alteration to the EVs.

EVs: 20 HP / 200 Def / 56 SAtk

It gives it a lot of needed OHKO's including on Landorous-T

I'm actually looking into a little project to bring back a Gen4 set on Blissey, but I want to test it before a reveal, but if it falls through, I'll take these into consideration. :)

Now the big one. I'll respond inside the quote.

Hello! I like the use of CM Landorus so I will go for the rate. I'm still not 100% I'll stick with him. I may go back to Double Dance Lando if I don't see some changes to how CM Lando fares very soonish

The Problem

The first problem I notice is a lack of stealth rock. The move is the most important move in the game, and without it, you're going to struggle against most teams (both offensive and stall). I'm actually changing Spikes out on Ferro for Rocks. It's a holdover from when I had both Rocks and Spikes, but with Deo-D gone, I forgot to rearrange everything. Secondly, I see you lack a punch of speed to actually pull of offensive sweeps, and this seems like an offensive-built team to me, so this is a huge problem. Let's not forget that Genesect will probably win against most members of this team, with only Blissey for walling. Nothing likes taking banded hits from Terrakion, as both Ferro and Bliss suffer from a Fighting type weakness and Starmie is 2HKO'ed by banded CC. Tornadus-T also owns this team except, again, for Blissey. You're standard Torn-T / Gene / Duggy will easily sweep and you can't do anything about it. Also, Sun sweeps you day and night.Emphasis mine. I hate sun. So much. Especially when paired with Jirachi. Just Ugh. So you need some big changes, but I see some potential here, so no need to worry! Let's get into what we can do to fix these problems!

The Rate

Magnezone seems very useless on this team. Seriously, what is it doing that CM Lando isn't? CM Lando removes just about every defensive Pokemon you can dream of, even Chansey, so it can pretty much eliminate you're everyday steel types with no problems at all. One word. Skarmory. If it didn't exist, I'd be all over this change already, but let's think a bit first. With that said, I think it's time we find a more suitable member than your current Magnezone. I think Scarf Genesect over Magnezone is a good idea. For starters, it completley helps against Tornadus-T, it offers revenge killing, some amazing coverage, and U-turn. At best it can also check opposing Genesect, and counter the Non-Scarf varients.I may try out my Gene set from my Ubers team then. Physically Scarfed Gene with Flamethrower/UTurn/Iron Head/Explosion. Thoughts? However, you still have many problems with this team. I really don't like the dragon lead in Dragonite, why not use something like LO + Roost Latios? Latios offers you that big power and boom, and counters problematic Pokemon like Terrakion / Keldeo with ease, and checks sun teams (which you currently lose to).I'm not opposed to this, but what other suggestions do you have? I feel my team is very Special Heavy as it is, and I'm definitely going to want to replace a Physical Pokemon with another Physical one I would add Stealth Rock over Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn so you can actually stop Torn-T from switch spamming you and from a Volca sweep.See above. I don't think I need Spikes AND Rocks, but I'll test it out first. With the loss of Dragonite, you can actually afford to sack Starmie. I would go with Bulky Attacker Rotom-W in stead, so you can actually use a Volt-Turn core to make this team more aggressive and have back up to Torn-T's Hurricane.I had Starmie before I ever added DNite. I like the spinner, I like the Dragons Check (fast Ice Beam), I love the amount of coverage it has, and I love its power. I won't say Rotom-W wouldn't fit, but I really would prefer to have some sort of spinner if it doesn't become dead weight otherwise, hence no TSpikes Tentacruel

I hoped I helped and GL!

Sets:

[B]Latios[/B] @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
 
~ Draco Meteor
~ Psyshock
~ Surf
~ Roost
 
[B]Genesect[/B] @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Download
Nature: Naive
EVs: 112 Atk / 144 SAtk / 252 Spe
 
~ U-turn
~ Ice Beam
~ Flamethrower
~ Thunderbolt / Iron Head
 
[B]Rotom-W[/B] @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 138 Hp / 144 SAtk / 224 Spe
 
~ Hydro Pump
~ Volt-Switch
~ WoW / TWave
~ Rest

These are definitely nice sets, and I'm willing to give them a try, seeing as you were kind enough to explain it all.

Thanks for the rates guys, keep them coming! I'd love to actually break into the top ranks with this, seeing as I hate this weather spam crap :P

 

[Shurtugal]

Hey!

Landorus: I'm glad you liked my rates. You're having Skarm issues on Landorus? +1 Focus Blast OHKO's Skarm after rocks man, so you shouldn't have problems.... Even the RP set can still KO after 2 SR switch ins + Focus Blast.

Ferro: I'd prefer Spikes + SR over SR + TWave because the hazards allow you to net more KO's. It's a personal change though, but you need SR for sure.

Magnezone / Genesect: Skarm isn't an issue, as like you said, you're team is heavily special based. Almost everything, even Blissey, can outright threaten Skarm so what's the problem? My thoughts on the physical Genesect is a no, just use the regular specially based one. The reason being is because you have more coverage, which allows you to revenge a lot more Pokemon.

Starmie / Rotom-W: Rotom-W synergizes with Genesect better, and overall, the only STAB you lose is psychic since Rotom-W can Volt-Switch and Hydro to make up for TBolt and Scald, so what coverage are you losing? Especially since my Latios change already compensates your psyshock loss from Starmie. Ice Beam is also on Genesect too, and you really don't need the spin. Volt-Turn (which Rotom-W + Genesect) help this team go either defensive or offensive at any given time, and I feel it will make this team a lot better.

Latios / Dragonite: I understand your concern on the physical attacking loss. However, with Psyshock on Latios and CM Sweep on Lando, you should be fine. However, if you're looking for a physically based member, I suppose you could opt to use something over Genesect as the revenge killer if you feel you need a physical attacker. Maybe try Scarf Terrakion, which offers that nice fighting type to your team and can overall replace Gene if need be (checks chloro sweepers and also Torn-T, which makes Terrak useful). CM Lando wrecks Chansey though, but if you use RP, then I would highly consider Terrakion.

GL


EDIT: Oh, and Genesect is fast enough to revenge Dragons too, better than Starmie, and also resist Outrage.

EDIT2: Seems you don't like CM Lando. Actually, I think the double dance Lando fits this team better. Use all my changes, but just keep Landorus a physical attacker, and you won't even have to resort to Terrakion - you can keep Genesect! GL! Feel free to PM or VM me with other questions you might have!

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Alright. Let's get down to business. First off, this team actually looks pretty good as it is, so I'll be making a few nitpicks here and there. First off, for Landorus-T, you should use an EV spread of 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe and an Adamant nature. The given EV spread grants you a slightly noticeable increase in bulk, allowing you to set up on more opponents, most notably Scarf Terrakion, and the Speed EVs allow you to outpace Scarf Latios after a Rock Polish. The remaining 252 EVs maximize Landorus-T's power. Also, you've made the notion of swapping Dragonite out for Scarf MoxieMence. This is one change that I agree you should make, given that a +Spe Salamence can actually revenge kill Genesect, which poses a slight threat to your team, despite the presence of Magnezone, and clean house in the endgame. Finally, for Blissey, I'd recommend using an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD. This enables Blissey to better take on the powerful specially-based weather sweepers, many of which can run through your team at +1 with your Blissey EV spread. Also, since Breloom and Keldeo are pricks, I'd recommend using Psyshock over Thunderbolt to keep the two in check. A summarized list of changes can be seen below.

Nitpicks:

Landorus-T:
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Lonely ----> 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe Adamant

LO Dragonite ----> Scarf MoxieMence

Blissey:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD ----> 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD

Starmie:
Thunderbolt ----> Psyshock

I'll edit in pictures sometime later. With that said, good luck with your team!

 

[BlankZero]

Once again, I'll respond in-quote.

Hey!

Landorus: I'm glad you liked my rates. You're having Skarm issues on Landorus? +1 Focus Blast OHKO's Skarm after rocks man, so you shouldn't have problems.... Even the RP set can still KO after 2 SR switch ins + Focus Blast.

As you saw, I switched to DoubleDance. :P

Ferro: I'd prefer Spikes + SR over SR + TWave because the hazards allow you to net more KO's. It's a personal change though, but you need SR for sure.

Changed it up to Toxic/SR. If I notice a stronger need for Spikes, I'll swap out Tox for them.

Magnezone / Genesect: Skarm isn't an issue, as like you said, you're team is heavily special based. Almost everything, even Blissey, can outright threaten Skarm so what's the problem? My thoughts on the physical Genesect is a no, just use the regular specially based one. The reason being is because you have more coverage, which allows you to revenge a lot more Pokemon.

Actually, I'm having a grand time with the physical one, but I'll give your set a try too, seeing it looks a bit Mixed, which I like a lot. I like hitting hard with UTurn, so some Attack investment is always good.

Starmie / Rotom-W: Rotom-W synergizes with Genesect better, and overall, the only STAB you lose is psychic since Rotom-W can Volt-Switch and Hydro to make up for TBolt and Scald, so what coverage are you losing? Especially since my Latios change already compensates your psyshock loss from Starmie. Ice Beam is also on Genesect too, and you really don't need the spin. Volt-Turn (which Rotom-W + Genesect) help this team go either defensive or offensive at any given time, and I feel it will make this team a lot better.

Volt Turn is great, I agree. And yes, if I used Latios, I'd cover my psychic base easily. However, I've already lost a couple matches where Spinning would have greatly benefitted me, and Starmie is a base 115 speed. It outspeeds a ton of pokes as is. I will be swapping TBolt for Psyshock though.

Latios / Dragonite: I understand your concern on the physical attacking loss. However, with Psyshock on Latios and CM Sweep on Lando, you should be fine. However, if you're looking for a physically based member, I suppose you could opt to use something over Genesect as the revenge killer if you feel you need a physical attacker. Maybe try Scarf Terrakion, which offers that nice fighting type to your team and can overall replace Gene if need be (checks chloro sweepers and also Torn-T, which makes Terrak useful). CM Lando wrecks Chansey though, but if you use RP, then I would highly consider Terrakion.

I did try Latios, but as much as I wanted to like it, I just didn't. I honestly would rather use LO Alakazam and do the same thing. Better speed, no LO recoil, no entry hazards or Sand damage, yet ANOTHER status sponge (except for Paralyze), at the cost of bulk, but better coverage (HP Ice/Shadow Ball/Psyshock/Focus Miss). I will look at Terrakion too. I seem to remember the bulky Sub SD set being very good.

GL


EDIT: Oh, and Genesect is fast enough to revenge Dragons too, better than Starmie, and also resist Outrage.

If that's true, then I could drop Ice Beam on Starmie and go Boltbeam+Psyshock+Spin, or even drop Psyshock for Recover.

EDIT2: Seems you don't like CM Lando. Actually, I think the double dance Lando fits this team better. Use all my changes, but just keep Landorus a physical attacker, and you won't even have to resort to Terrakion - you can keep Genesect! GL! Feel free to PM or VM me with other questions you might have!

It has its merits, but strong physical presence from Yache Lando is too much to pass up, and the double dance set really hurts everything. Now if only there was a trade off for Stone Edge that hit more frequently.

Overall, I liked your ideas, and I gave them a decent try, but some of them either didn't fit the team/playstlye, or I just didn't feel I was able to use them properly. Thanks though! I really liked the work you put into your rate!

Alright. Let's get down to business. First off, this team actually looks pretty good as it is, so I'll be making a few nitpicks here and there. First off, for Landorus-T, you should use an EV spread of 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe and an Adamant nature. The given EV spread grants you a slightly noticeable increase in bulk, allowing you to set up on more opponents, most notably Scarf Terrakion, and the Speed EVs allow you to outpace Scarf Latios after a Rock Polish. The remaining 252 EVs maximize Landorus-T's power.The Lonely Nature actually serves a purpose here. It drops my Defense JUST below my Special Defense (literally just 2 points under), so Genesect gets the Attack boost instead of the special boost. Also, you've made the notion of swapping Dragonite out for Scarf MoxieMence. This is one change that I agree you should make, given that a +Spe Salamence can actually revenge kill Genesect, which poses a slight threat to your team, despite the presence of Magnezone, and clean house in the endgame.I'm testing the Magnezone swap for Genesect right now in fact. The Salamence idea is still there, but I'm not done testing it yet. Finally, for Blissey, I'd recommend using an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD. This enables Blissey to better take on the powerful specially-based weather sweepers, many of which can run through your team at +1 with your Blissey EV spread. Also, since Breloom and Keldeo are pricks, I'd recommend using Psyshock over Thunderbolt to keep the two in check.Sounds like an idea. I'll probably be running Wish/Heal Bell/Flame/Ice soon, and I wouldn't mind NOT giving these Leech Seeders their whole HP bar every other turn :P A summarized list of changes can be seen below.

Nitpicks:

Landorus-T:
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Lonely ----> 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe Adamant Will do

LO Dragonite ----> Scarf MoxieMence

Blissey:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD ----> 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD

Starmie:
Thunderbolt ----> Psyshock Will try this

I'll edit in pictures sometime later. With that said, good luck with your team!

Thanks folks! It's coming together nicely!

I still hate Jirachi though. Edit: And Reuniclus.

 

[Shurtugal]

Maybe try EQ on Latios over surf? It does like 47%, but it will lessen it's annoyance.

 

[BlankZero]

Maybe try EQ on Latios over surf? It does like 47%, but it will lessen it's annoyance.

Surf is a great move. It's the pokemon using it I have issue with :p

 

[Alfalfa]

Heal Bell and Wish are legal together with Blissey. Aromatherapy and Wish are illegal together.

 

[BlankZero]

Heal Bell and Wish are legal together with Blissey. Aromatherapy and Wish are illegal together.

Yep. Found that out earlier today.

Changes have been made.

I was looking at trying out CM Blissey with dual attacks, but people seem to get wise to the idea that it might not be just a wall once that first CM goes up, so Dual Attacking Wish/Heal Bell works for me. Already won me a match earlier.

Mixed Gene is bawse. Can pretty much kill anything with Iron Head set. Takes an Outrage from +1 Scarfed Mence after SR and KOs with Ice Beam.

Rocks > Spikes by far, but having both really does help a ton, so Ferrothorn is running both alongside Power Whip and Gyro Ball. The only things it doesn't hit for Neutral are Steels and Fire types, but I'm usually swapping out of those anyhow.

I want to thank everyone for their advise and rates. I really feel confidant about this team now :)

 

[Red3mpti0n]

You may have two scarfers, but they are both at relatively low speed tiers. This leaves you helpless against faster scarfers whose hits you cant really sponge such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Infernape and Latios, as well as Chlorophyll users like Venusaur. You need either some priority attacks or faster scarfers to check the above threats.

With the above resolved, speed is no longer an issue, meaning Landorus-T could drop Rock Polish for Substitute. Landorus-T forces a lot of switches and Substitute can give it the window it needs to work around the opponent's switch-in. In addition to all the basic perks of Substitute, it can also shield Landorus-T to get a Swords Dance off, providing a way to muscle through slower bulky threats like Scizor, Vaporeon and Jellicent. If you opt for Substitute, you should also try a Jolly nature, which lets you outspeed neutral base 100's; getting the jump on Salamence and Volcarona and KO'ing with Stone Edge is always nice. Otherwise, the team looks good :)

 

[BlankZero]

You may have two scarfers, but they are both at relatively low speed tiers. This leaves you helpless against faster scarfers whose hits you cant really sponge such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Infernape and Latios, as well as Chlorophyll users like Venusaur. You need either some priority attacks or faster scarfers to check the above threats.

With the above resolved, speed is no longer an issue, meaning Landorus-T could drop Rock Polish for Substitute. Landorus-T forces a lot of switches and Substitute can give it the window it needs to work around the opponent's switch-in. In addition to all the basic perks of Substitute, it can also shield Landorus-T to get a Swords Dance off, providing a way to muscle through slower bulky threats like Scizor, Vaporeon and Jellicent. If you opt for Substitute, you should also try a Jolly nature, which lets you outspeed neutral base 100's; getting the jump on Salamence and Volcarona and KO'ing with Stone Edge is always nice. Otherwise, the team looks good :)

Where do you think I could fit in a Priority Move though? Or a faster Scarfer?

EDIT: I'll do some testing via Scizor and Latias.

Edit 2: Thinking about keeping this LO Scizor I did over Genesect. But now I'll haveto rely on Fire Blast from Sally and FT from Bliss a bit more for the steel types... hmmm...

Also, I'm really not seeing a ton of super fast scarfers anywhere. And Lando isn't making people switch very often at all, meaning keeping RP might be my best bet against those super fast scarfs. But everything and their mom has HP Ice for some odd reason :/

 

[Red3mpti0n]

Also, I'm really not seeing a ton of super fast scarfers anywhere. And Lando isn't making people switch very often at all, meaning keeping RP might be my best bet against those super fast scarfs. But everything and their mom has HP Ice for some odd reason :/

Whether you see them often or not, all the scarfers I mentioned clean 6-0 you. But if you REALLY want Rock Polish, then I'd drop Swords Dance. Since they both wall you, I'd opt for either HP Ice or HP Fire for the OHKO on Gliscor a 2HKO on standard Skarm, respectively. Not to say Landorus won't miss the extra power, but it's not your late-game cleaner; Salamence is. Besides, Salamence appreciates those threats being out of the way without having to lock itself into Fire Blast.

Note: Using a HP means you need a Naughty nature to get the 2HKO on Skarm. Also, HP Fire requires Landorus to have an imperfect speed IV. Though negligible after a Rock Polish, opposing neutral nature Landorus-T will outspeed you before a boost and may have HP Ice.

 

[BlankZero]

Whether you see them often or not, all the scarfers I mentioned clean 6-0 you. But if you REALLY want Rock Polish, then I'd drop Swords Dance. Since they both wall you, I'd opt for either HP Ice or HP Fire for the OHKO on Gliscor a 2HKO on standard Skarm, respectively. Not to say Landorus won't miss the extra power, but it's not your late-game cleaner; Salamence is. Besides, Salamence appreciates those threats being out of the way without having to lock itself into Fire Blast.

Note: Using a HP means you need a Naughty nature to get the 2HKO on Skarm. Also, HP Fire requires Landorus to have an imperfect speed IV. Though negligible after a Rock Polish, opposing neutral nature Landorus-T will outspeed you before a boost and may have HP Ice.

Noted. So, perhaps a RP Special Attacking Lando is in order? Or how about CM Lando-I? I could run 2 Atk / 30 Def IVs and get HP Ice bp70 on Sheer Force Special Lando, no issues, and could swap Genesect to Scizor.

 

[Yeezy D]

You were considering Mamoswine. Also I realised that your team has two Pokes that have a 4x weakness to Ice, where Mamoswine's Ice Shard would really get to work. In my opinion, I would swap Landorus-T for Mamoswine, and you need to do something with your two 4x weakness to Fire also. Genesect and Ferrothorn are very susceptible to it, as they both share 4x weakness to Fire and not that much of a way of bulking it off. Also, you need to get some real speed behind you. Perhaps swap Terrakion over Genesect as another Scarfer, and Scartakion can OHKO Toed, outspeed opposing Genesect, etc.

tl;dr:
Mamoswine > Landorus-Therian
Terrakion > Genesect

 

[Joim]

Hello there!
I've seen you've changed your Blissey already, which I was going to point out that you could use Heal Bell + Wish. I'd change either of the attacks for Protection, which will help to assure a self-Wish. Otherwise, you are risking a 2HKO without being able to heal. Also she'll hit not for much unless it's a super effective hit, so I'd change maybe one of the attacks for Seismic Toss. 100 steady damage comes in nicely and will allow you to damage frail sweepers upon predicting a switch in, also good for these you can't hope but to tickle with flamethrower or ice beam.

Also, since your team is not that stally and you might not need rapid spin, I suggest switching Starmie for a CB Mamoswine which would perfectly revenge kill Dragons, Gliscors and even Hetrans. He's difficult to counter, even to check, thanks to Thick Fat afraid be not of fire attacks! Just consider him:
Mamowsine @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~ Ice Shard
~ Icicle Crash
~ Earthquake
~ Stone Edge

For the rest, I like your team. Looks a bit like my weatherless, and it works!

 

[BlankZero]

I'll definitely look at changing Starmie to mamoswine.

Scarf Terrakion might work, but I think I'll swap Genesect for LO Scizor at this point, as he destroys Terrakion pretty nicely.

About Landorus, I'm going to be playing around with his set again. The guy is absolutely monstrous and can be used Physically or Specially with no issues.

Thanks again for the advice folks. I appreciate it.

 

[Red3mpti0n]

If you use special Landorus, use the Incarnate forme, as Sheer Force boosts Earth Power and focus blast. It accomplishes the same thing that I suggested with Gliscor via HP Ice while also 2HKO'ing Skarm with Focus Blast.

 

[BlankZero]

If you use special Landorus, use the Incarnate forme, as Sheer Force boosts Earth Power and focus blast. It accomplishes the same thing that I suggested with Gliscor via HP Ice while also 2HKO'ing Skarm with Focus Blast.

Sounds like what I have been doing. I am nervous to lose a spinner though, especially one as strong as Starmie. I have had matches that were lost due to too many hazards on the field on my side. I like a good offense, and Starmie is a very good offensive spinner to have.

 

[Red3mpti0n]

Also, since your team is not that stally and you might not need rapid spin, I suggest switching Starmie for a CB Mamoswine which would perfectly revenge kill Dragons, Gliscors and even Hetrans. He's difficult to counter, even to check, thanks to Thick Fat afraid be not of fire attacks! Just consider him
For the rest, I like your team. Looks a bit like my weatherless, and it works!

I don't see why you can't just use Ice Beam > Psyshock on Starmie. Not only is it much faster than Mamoswine, it's naturally faster than every OU Dragon-type, handles Gliscor and Heatran and its Water-typing provides the same function that Thick Fat does.

They're obviously on polar opposite ends of the spectrum on just about everything and there is a great deal of merit to using Mamoswine, but EVERY team appreciates spin support; those that can afford to should do so. Over half of the team is affected by Spikes and Salamence has a SR weakness. It may not be necessary to have Rapid Spin, but it sure as hell helps.

 

[BlankZero]

I don't see why you can't just use Ice Beam > Psyshock on Starmie. Not only is it much faster than Mamoswine, it's naturally faster than every OU Dragon-type, handles Gliscor and Heatran and its Water-typing provides the same function that Thick Fat does.

They're obviously on polar opposite ends of the spectrum on just about everything and there is a great deal of merit to using Mamoswine, but EVERY team appreciates spin support; those that can afford to should do so. Over half of the team is affected by Spikes and Salamence has a SR weakness. It may not be necessary to have Rapid Spin, but it sure as hell helps.

I did have ice beam at some point, but I really don't have much in the way of a fighting type check (flying/psychic), so psyshock was very nice to have.