Teambuilding 101 (Round 2: Django, DTC, EBeast)

[Raseri]

don't recall quiting, but Weather

 

[MMF]

All Choice (sorry razzles ;_;)

 

[Machineae]

Weather

 

[Helias]

BALANCE

 

[viol and bass]

Stall

 

[Tofu]

Stall

 

[wiitle]

Stall

 

[soviet]

stall

 

[Bluwing]

Stall

 

[IceSpade]

Stall :P

 

[Incon]

Stall por favor

 

[Ewil]

stall

 

[IstheCakeReallyaLie]

You know, all choice with no spinner is a bad idea.

Stall.

 

[KryptoKrunch]

Stall.

 

[Louiss]

Stall, i've tried it before but really for like just 3 times, and the team of some experts is hopefully gonna be awesome :3

I wanted to try this new Walrein set for stalling as well:

Wallrein (Walrein) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Super Fang
- Block

Switch it into something that can't do shit against him, then block and the stalling can begin.

Maybe an idea for the teambuilders, idk, but it would be awesome.

 

[RitterCat]

CHOICE
ALL CHOICE

 

[jake]

The counting of the votes was done by a Mr. Rupert "Eager Beaver" Dongle, who informs me that Stall has won in a landslide (so if it's wrong then blame him, not me). Raseri also wanted to build with this slate of builders but there was a mix-up when I initially put it up, so I think he's building along with the first three.

I expect at least some kind of report on how far you guys are with your team in the next 24 hours or so - even if you aren't done yet, explaining what you have so far and how you got there would be wonderful. Thanks in advance, guys!

 

[Django]

 

[ebeast]

Already done with mine :] Since there was like 2 pages full of Stall votes I took the liberty of starting early. I have tested this team a bit and it has performed very well in every match I have used it with. I'm am not very good at Stall so I did get some help from my friend, AgentDell, to help me get the general idea on how to make a proper stall and helped me decide on that sets I ended up using. After making the team, it unintentionally came out looking very similarly to Dingo's Bit by Bit team although its more set to work in the current metagame.

Stall is general is a difficult playing style to build around because it no longer has Cryogonal to play with and has to deal with Zangoose and SubBU Braviary that are in the metagame. Even though it is very hard to build once you have successfully made a good team that can correctly incorporate Stall, you're looking at very solid team that is hard to beat. My team was made with the standard Stall way of thinking: beat down the opponent with hazards and Toxic damage. My team also incorporates the underused Tangela, Frillish, and Regice to make a solid core that deal with a lot of the metagame including Sawk, Samurott, Golurk, and Ludicolo. Tangela also provides Leech Seed support to wear things down immensely alongside Toxic damage and force switches making Pokemon take damage from hazards. Knock Off comes in handy when dealing with Pokemon with Leftovers in wearing them down as well as removes the Eviolite from Pokemon such as Gurdurr and Misdreavus to hit them harder with Tangela. Lickilicky provides Wish and Heal Bell support, Bastiodon is my Stealth Rock user, Roar user, and Bird check, and Regice with the role of tanking Samurott and Ludicolo as well as Alomomola + Amoonguss.

Since I always build my teams on PO it randomly picks a gender for me and when I C/Pd the team over to PS I noticed that all of my Pokemon were Female. As Offense is very manly and Stall is... the opposite of it I named the team: Girl Squad. Enjoy!

Team

Girly Man (Garbodor) (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 228 HP / 160 Def / 120 Spd
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rock Blast
- Toxic

• Garbodor is THE face of stall and the Pokemon that every stall team looks towards when they want to start a team. This is because it has a great Poison-type, good bulk, and is full of utility. Garbodor holds access Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Pain Split, and coverage moves such as Drain Punch, Seed Bomb, and Rock Blast that allow it to perform many tasks, all which it does perfectly. My set's job is to be able to continuously get up Spikes and Toxic Spikes to wear down teams very quickly with the rest of my squad. Rock Blast allow my Garbodor to check Haunter while Toxic comes in handy to poison Eelektross, Misdreavus, or any Pokemon can avoid being poisoned by Toxic Spikes due to them being absorbed by an opposing Garbodor, Skuntank, or Amoonguss. The Speed Evs on my set allow Garbodor to outspeed max Speed Golem, standard Cacturne, standard Misdreavus, and standard Probopass so it can get off another layer of hazards if needed. This set doesn't incorporate Pain Split although its not really needed with Lickilicky providing Wish support.

Pubic (Tangela) (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 240 HP / 220 Def / 48 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
Bold Nature
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

• Tangela is a great Pokemon and even though Amoonguss has essentially usurped its place in NU there are many things that Tangela does that Amoonguss cannot. These include beating Golurk, Torterra, and having access to Leech Seed and Knock Off. Tangela is very bulky and Regenerator makes it a bitch to deal with while the extremely handy Ground-type resist gives it the nod from me over Amoonguss. Leech Seed alongside Toxic and Spikes are amazing and one of the best stalling tools I have played with. They stay in they get worn down extremely quickly and if they switch out they take damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes. Hidden Power Ice allows Tangela to hit the very dangerous Sawsbuck super effectively and gives me an answer to an otherwise unstoppable threat. Synthesis gives Tangela some recovery so that it doesn't have to always only on Regenerator. This helps a lot if Tangela has been worn down considerable but can live an attack; Synthesis + Regenerator heals 83% of its health and is superior to just getting the 33% health from Regen. Of course Tangela is incredibly physically defensive and helps a lot against some of the best physically attackers in the tier such as Sawk,Absol, and Sawsbuck. My Evs are set so that Tangela can outspeed standard 84 Speed Golurk as well as minimum Speed Alomomola while my Defense EVs rest at a jump point, and the rest go to HP.

Chubby Chaser (Lickilicky) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Return
- Heal Bell

• Lickilicky is probably the glue of the team as Wish and Heal Bell are incredible moves to have on a Stall team. Lickilicky is very specially defensive and can tank most of the special attacks in the tier can stall out Toxic damage with Wish and Protect or heal status with Heal Bell. Pokemon such as Eelektross, Gorebyss, Exeggutor, Samurott, and Serperior cannot break through Lickilicky and just get stalled out by Toxic Spikes or take good chunks from Lickilicky's Return. Return is chosen over Body Slam and Dragon Tail for key reasons. Body Slam's ability to paralyze is not something that a stall team wants to have as the main point is to stall Pokemon out with Toxic and Dragon Tail, while the phazing is nice leaves Lickilicky as set up fodder. Return had good power and allows my team to deal damage to Eelektross without having to manually Toxic it with Bastiodon or Garbodor, which is pretty huge.

ｷﾀﾜァ*･゜ﾟ･*:.｡..｡.:*･゜(n‘∀‘)ηﾟ･*:.｡. .｡.:*･゜ﾟ･* !!!!! oh my god i'm a girl!!! (Frillish) (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Spd
- Scald
- Recover
- Night Shade
- Taunt

• Frillish takes my spot as my team's spinblocker over Misdreavus as the former has the ability to wall Swords Dance Samurott, successfully block Smashkoal from getting through and getting rid of my hazards, and has access to reliable recovery in Recover. Night Shade and Scald take place as Frillish's attacks of choice as Night Shade deals consistant damage and Scald's ability to hit Smashkoal as well as burn makes it an admirable attack, regardless of how weak it is. Taunt is a great move on Frillish as it prevents Musharna from setting up Calm Mind and Heal Belling off status so that Frillish can Night Shade or abuse Toxic Spikes to bring down the psychic fetus. Frillish's typing is also excellent and with Scald provides a decent check to the mighty pig known as Emboar who gives stall teams hell as well as Gurdurr. As Frillish already beats SD Samurott very well I use Cursed Body to randomly Disable attacks possibly forcing an opponent out and racking up hazards damage. My EVs are set so that Frillish can take hits from both CB Sawk and +2 Smashkoal while my 30 Speed IVs are so that Frillish underspeeds Gurdurr to take less damage from Payback. Even though reducing my speed to 115 means that Probopass can now outspeed before I can Taunt, Probopass nowadays uses Speed Evs anyways.

Dream of Life (Bastiodon) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SDef / 12 Spd
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic
- Roar

• I'm going to get this out of the way first, I'm not the biggest fan of Bastiodon and I think it's kind of a shame that I couldn't find a better Pokemon to fit this role. That being said Bastiodon really did fit the role I was looking for extremely well... What role am I talking about? The role of blocking Flying- & Normal-type spam and getting up Stealth Rock, of course. Every single team needs some of these kind of Pokemon and Bastiodon fit the role much better than Probopass as it holds access to Roar, which is a major move setting them apart. With Roar Bastiodon makes my fears of SubBulk Up Braviary and Musharna go away (at least unless it's last mon Brav) and allows my team to take advantage of all of the hazards its setting up. Protect was recommended to my by AgentDell and it has actually been a pretty important move for Bastiodon to stall out Toxic damage and scout out Pokemon such as Sawk on what move they will lock themselves into. As Bastiodon is extremely weak (2 hit Rock Blast barely breaks Offensive Haunter's Substitutes...) I decided to bring a second manual Toxic user. This helps immensely against Musharna as if its paired alongside a Poison-type to remove Toxic Spikes or its in a last mon situation, Bastiodon will be capable of beating Musharna by Toxic stalling it out alongside Protect. In fact my spread is pretty standard in being Specially Defensive however, I use 12 Speed Evs on this to outspeed the standard 16 Spe Musharna which makes it easier to stall it out of Heal Bells (if its even using it) This is because by being slower I never know when my opponent is going to want to Heal Bell so misprediction could cause Bastiodon to lose precious Toxic PP while possibly coming in handy if Bastiodon is very low on health and I need to quickly Toxic Musharna.

Redeeming Factor (Regice) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

• My favorite Pokemon on the whole team would have to be Regice it's just such a boss and I love using it on my other teams as well. Regice is my main stop to dangerous Pokemon such as Haunter, Ludicolo, and Special Samurott while also dealing with Alomomola + Amoonguss very well. RestTalk provides semi-reliable recovery that with Heal Bell from Licky isn't half bad. This allows me to continuously come in on all of those threats and do what Regice does best: tank. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are an excellent combination that gives Regice great coverage in just 2 attacks and deals excellent damage to Samurott, Ludicolo, Amoonguss, Alomomola, you name it. This is my most offensive Pokemon and can be considered somewhat of a stallbreaker as it checks a lot of the Pokemon that can stall out my stalling (essentially anything with Levitate). My EV spread is standard with 16 Speed Evs allowing Regice to outspeed base 45 Pokemon and Golem, 240 HP hitting a odd HP number so that Regice can switch into Stealth Rock 4 times, and max Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. My nature is definitely the thing that stands out the most out of this set. Since this is not an offensive team I don't have a Scarf user or priority to make use of if the aforementioned threats manage to slip through Regice so I wanted to make this set bulkier so that I could assure Regice's victory. I wanted a set that could 2HKO Alomomola and then add the rest into Special Defensive and came up with 136 SpA / 116 SpD. When making more complex spread I like to change nature and see if it would improve performance by doing so and it made a huge difference here. By keeping my older spread and just changing the nature to Calm I had gotten 2 more points in SpA and 14 extra for Special Defense, which is a big deal. This new spread gets the same KOes but also decreases damage from the Water-types' Hydro Pump by 3% on average. This might not seem like much but it actually makes a big difference in the grand scheme of things and does cool things like making +2 Gorebyss's Surf only do 45% max. This is certainly one of the most important Pokemon on the team as it prevents Alomomola + Amoonguss and all of the threats mentioned from destroying this team.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nu3870775
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nu3882421
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nu3900058
Above are replays of a match I had with the team as I was testing it out.

Importable (no nicknames)

Garbodor (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 228 HP / 160 Def / 120 Spd
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rock Blast
- Toxic

Tangela (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 240 HP / 220 Def / 48 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Lickilicky (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Return
- Heal Bell

Frillish (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Spd
- Scald
- Recover
- Night Shade
- Taunt

Bastiodon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SDef / 12 Spd
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic
- Roar

Regice @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

 

[watashi]

hey ebeast, excellent team even though it is basically bit by bit v2.0!!

you should try synthesis over sleep powder on tangela since it helps a lot against opposing spike stacking teams that can cancel out tangela's regenerator. this is important since unlike amoonguss and alomomola, tangela doesn't get leftovers recovery. synthesis also lets you stay in on pokemon such as cinccino, zangoose, and tauros instead of being forced to switch out and heal with regenerator. another option worth looking at is hidden powder ice which can go over sleep powder or knock off since swords dance sawsbuck could be troublesome to this team if it manages to set up on frillish, tangela, or licky.

shed skin arbok and scraggy to an extent are really troublesome for this team to face. the only solution i can see without making too many dramatic changes is for you to use perish song misdreavus or altaria over frillish, but then you will either lose an important counter to some huge threats in the tier or your spin blocker. they are rather uncommon though, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal; after all, you can't counter everything in nu!

also a spread of 248 hp / 252 def / 8 spdef with a calm nature on frillish gives you 1 extra point in def and spdef so use it instead!

 

[ebeast]

hey ebeast, excellent team even though it is basically bit by bit v2.0!!

you should try synthesis over sleep powder on tangela since it helps a lot against opposing spike stacking teams that can cancel out tangela's regenerator. this is important since unlike amoonguss and alomomola, tangela doesn't get leftovers recovery. synthesis also lets you stay in on pokemon such as cinccino, zangoose, and tauros instead of being forced to switch out and heal with regenerator. another option worth looking at is hidden powder ice which can go over sleep powder or knock off since swords dance sawsbuck could be troublesome to this team if it manages to set up on frillish, tangela, or licky.

shed skin arbok and scraggy to an extent are really troublesome for this team to face. the only solution i can see without making too many dramatic changes is for you to use perish song misdreavus or altaria over frillish, but then you will either lose an important counter to some huge threats in the tier or your spin blocker. they are rather uncommon though, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal; after all, you can't counter everything in nu!

Yes, I already said it unintentionally came out like dingo's team >:( also I completely forgot about Bambi when making this somehow lmao

I think I'll you up on your advice and change Knock Off over for Hidden Power Ice, I saw you saying that Scraggy isn't a problem since I have Knock Off + Leech Seed although Scraggy isn't common and Knock Off really doesn't matter to be frank. Getting rid of Scraggy's Eviolite isn't too much of a help as my team isn't strong enough to actually take advantage of it. Sleep Powder vs Synthesis is something I'll probably change as well since Sleep isn't very helpful when i'm trying to Toxic anyways. Things already Toxiced can't be put to Sleep and i have experience how annoying it can be to have only Regen as recovery. I'll add it right now, thanks. (although this isn't RMT forums, punk FLCL <3)

EDIT: Sorry my attention span equals zero so I didn't notice you last bit. Changing the Frillish spread as well, thanks!

 

[Django]

ooook so I guess I shoul post what I've done so far, and actually explain my previous post. I've always thought that Ditto was really unexplored, and one thing I've always wanted to try out was a stall team with Ditto. This means that stall can in one turn become incredibly agressive, provided I can get Ditto in on the right Pokemon, as well as giving me a way to clean up teams late game and stop a lot of dangerous Pokemon from outright sweeping me. Ditto was obviously the first Pokemon I put down. From there I drew up a list of top threats I absolutely had to counter in order for my team to be effective, as well as a list of qualities these Pokemon should have in order to make a good stall team.

Stuff I need to counter:

• Braviary
• Emboar
• Ludicolo
• Golurk
• Musharna
• Samurott
• Zangoose
• Sawk
• Exeggutor

If I can counter every single one of these, I reckon I can do a decent job at walling all of NU (for example, stuff like Gurdurr has really similar counters to Sawk, Cinccino to Zangoose etc).

Stuff I want to have on my team (as many as possible):

• Hazards
• Status moves
• Any other sort os passive damage
• Spinblocker
• Phazer
• Revenge Killer
• Wish
• Heal Bell
• Recovery on as many Pokemon as possible
• Rapid Spin / Taunt (to beat other stall teams)
• A win condition, as opposed to simply not losing.

Now obviously getting ALL of this into just 5 Pokemon (now that I have Ditto) is going to be a struggle, but I think I came pretty close.

The first two Pokemon I added were Regirock and Frillish. This gives me counters to: Braviary, Emboar (between the two of them), Samurott, Zangoose (again between them). Two Pokemon beating 4 of the most dangerous in NU sounds good to me. I also get Stealth Rock, a great spinblocker, and even Taunt if I can fit it on. Both Pokemon can also easily run Toxic, and Frillish gets Scald / Will-O-Wisp. So that leaves me with Ludicolo, Golurk, Musharna, Sawk, Exeggutor. Next up I go for perhaps the best stall Pokemon, Lickilicky. This gives me a great chance to beat Ludicolo, as well as Exeggutor. It also provides Wish, Heal Bell, and even phazing if I decide on Dragon Tail. Now looking at my team, Psychic types still completely wreck me, and I have no priority which, even on a stall team, is still a great tool to have. Skuntank fixes both of these problems, and is surprisingly bulky with enough investment. Also another option for Taunt which is great. Now we're left with just Sawk and Golurk, two very difficult Pokemon to counter. The first thing that sprang to mind is another great Pokemon for stall, and something that seems to have fallen off the radar now that Amoonguss exists: Tangela. It provides an essential Ground resist so I can beat Golurk, as well as a neat Sawk and Gurdurr check.

With that, I've got 6 Pokemon! Regirock / Frillish / Lickilicky / Skuntank / Tangela / Ditto. I think between them I've covered most threats in NU, but there is no way to really tell without actually playing with the team. Right now I'm going to go actually build the team (movesets, EVs etc) and start laddering. Thats when I'll really get a feel for the team and what it beats and what it doesn't. I'll be making changes (both small and big) in all likelihood, and I'll document them all here one way or another. I realise this is a lot less involved than how some builders like Zeb went about teambuilding, but I think this is the best way to build stall, and hopefully the results will be positive!

 

[marilli]

Great, Ebeast and Django!

I have a question regarding how one would go around facing an opposing Garbodor (shhhh and somewhat of the reason why I advocate a spinner despite how much they suck.) I'm talking about offensive spikestack team, like Zeb's most recent team (well, because stall is rarely seen to begin with). They can literally stack spikes on you everywhere especially because you have no offense whatsoever. Yeah, you can stack spikes too, but then with this spike-war, the stall team is surprisingly at a disadvantage! Why, you ask? NU stall has very, very small pool of good Roar / Whirlwind users. And this means that Kadabra / Haunter (for non-skuntank Ebeast team) and Bulk up Brav or whatever threat that is immune to Spikes becomes a big bitch to handle. In a sense they abuse Spikes a lot more because it's impossible to phaze around like a madman =(

 

[Django]

Yeah Amarillo, Spikes are probably the single biggest weakness my team has. I'm considering working in a spinner (maybe over Ditto...) purely to stop spikestacking teams like The Heist from running all over me. Currently all I can really do is set up Spikes while they do with Ditto, and then try and get Ditto in at the exact right time to sweep their team. It's risky, but luckily I haven't had to face too many Spikes teams yet (probably because stall is impossible to ladder high with but thats another story !!!)

EDIT: So yeah, any Spikes based team compeltely murders me. Replaced Ditto with Torkoal, lets see how it goes.

 

[ebeast]

@Ama

Yeah I agree that Spike stacking teams are hell to deal with when using either of our stall teams since our offensive presence is almost zero. (mine more than Dingo's) Through playing with the team Pokemon such as Garbodor, Misdreavus, and Skuntank have been kind of painful to deal with so I was going to edit the team, but would like some input from others if they want to help out.

I was am going to change Garbodor's spread to: 228 HP / 160 Def / 120 Spe Impish so that it can outspeed Adamant Rampardos and standard Misdreavus by extension and get off a Toxic on it before it can Taunt me. Misdreavus is honestly the devil to this team and I've only been able to deal with it if I manage to catch it on the switch with Toxic or by hoping for a freeze with Regice's Ice Beam. While Garbodor's spread loses out on the Special Defense EVs that I used for Haunter, I honestly haven't played many Haunters and they are dealt very well by Bastiodon and Regice anyways.

What I wanted some input on was on whether I should change Bastiodon's Protect slot for Magic Coat to also help out against Misdreavus as well as allow Bastiodon to bounce back Garbodor's Spikes (Although at the end of the day Spikes has more PP than Magic Coat) The problem is that like I said its not too reliable and Protect has a lot of utility in scouting moves and stalling Toxic and/or Leech Seed damage. If anybody knows of another way I could prevent Spikes on my side without changing members or if changing members keep the same effectiveness on the team.

Also Dingo: "probably because stall is impossible to ladder high with but thats another story !!!" I've actually been laddering (here's the surprise) with the team I posted and am closing into the 1900 range. :o