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Kyurem-B
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
Actually, Terrakion owes a lot of it's awesomeness to it's speed and SR resistance.
Late game, Terrakion can usually just hit CC and watch things die without getting hit; whereas Kyu-B's often needs to take a hit in order to dish out a hit, and as bulky as it is, that's not a good thing; especially when you're weak to, and often outsped by type/s that have the highest attack stat in this metagame. Hello Terakkion, Salamence, Garchomp, Scizor, Breloom.
Here's an idea. To midigate the fact that Kyu-B has terrible speed, it might be best to use him with para support. Twave his whole team and bring in Kyu-B and spam outrage.
The more I think about the more I think it's outclassed by Haxorus.
The more I think about the more I think it's outclassed by Haxorus.
Well, I'm kinda grumpy now. I RNG'd a Lonely Kyurem a while back because it was recommended in Colonel M's post (which had both a Lonely Mixed set and a Lonely Mixed Hone Claws set by shrang), but now it looks like nobody is in favor of Lonely anymore.
So, my question; I have ONE more Kyurem I can catch. What Nature should I pick in order to be able to run the BEST set(s) for Kyurem-B in OU? Just so you know I have no planned team for it quite yet, I just want to be prepared.
Secondary question (apologies for being off-topic); I have a Modest Kyurem that I RNG'd for Kyurem-W. Is that still the best choice for it?
Thanks!
P.S: If my questions are intrusive, please let me know where it would be most appropriate for me to go and I'll delete this and ask there instead. :)
So, my question; I have ONE more Kyurem I can catch. What Nature should I pick in order to be able to run the BEST set(s) for Kyurem-B in OU? Just so you know I have no planned team for it quite yet, I just want to be prepared.
Secondary question (apologies for being off-topic); I have a Modest Kyurem that I RNG'd for Kyurem-W. Is that still the best choice for it?
Thanks!
P.S: If my questions are intrusive, please let me know where it would be most appropriate for me to go and I'll delete this and ask there instead. :)
Terrakion resists Rock instead of being weak to it, which means it can actually survive some super-effective priority attacks Kyurem-B can't because it's weak to SR
While it doesn't say a lot in terms of viability, Kyurem-B needs 68 Attack EVs to match Jolly Haxorus's Attack
Kyu-B keeps giving me massive LOLs with Adamant Banded Outrage, especially when it gets a Sub courtesy of Gliscor. Too funny.
We find ourselves disagreeing about how fast Kyurem needs to be. Kyurem ties with Gliscor so unless it needs to outrun it any cost I see no point in running maximum speed. Jolly CB-Cube with SR can damage analysis-Gliscor with Outrage to the point it cannot create subs anymore and should Gliscor try to keep up in terms of speed, it might die (Impish) or will die (Jolly).
As for the other spreads, I see want you did. With 236 EVs it is faster than +speed 80, namely Venusaur, Dragonite and Mamoswine. We probably have to decide for ourselves how reasonable it is. Venusaur is not really a threat to it and the stats suggest that the majority of Dragonites are adamant. It doesn't have to stay that way because there is a rise in jolly Mamoswines in the Suspect Ladder compared to standard OU. Maybe because of Kyurem?
56 EVs are for Politoed and Breloom and should be the minimum amount of speed you have, full stop.
There are two other distributions I want to suggest - they make it as fast as a Gliscor of mine would prefer:
Neutral 148 put it in a very good speed tier above Breloom and Politoed and is very good for substitute sets.
216 is for me the more offensive approach for it being faster than Lucario.
Are there any objections?
As for the other spreads, I see want you did. With 236 EVs it is faster than +speed 80, namely Venusaur, Dragonite and Mamoswine. We probably have to decide for ourselves how reasonable it is. Venusaur is not really a threat to it and the stats suggest that the majority of Dragonites are adamant. It doesn't have to stay that way because there is a rise in jolly Mamoswines in the Suspect Ladder compared to standard OU. Maybe because of Kyurem?
56 EVs are for Politoed and Breloom and should be the minimum amount of speed you have, full stop.
There are two other distributions I want to suggest - they make it as fast as a Gliscor of mine would prefer:
Neutral 148 put it in a very good speed tier above Breloom and Politoed and is very good for substitute sets.
216 is for me the more offensive approach for it being faster than Lucario.
Are there any objections?
Neliel
Sacred Sword
I wonder why a set of substitute, roost, dragon claw and fusion bolt is not listed on the standard sets. I used it a bit and i have to say that dragon claw is far better than outrage, you still hit things hard due to that 170 base atk, while avoiding revenge kills since you will not be locked into outrage. Also, sub+roost can stall a lot of things, the toxic spikes support of tentacruel under rain is very very good indeed.
I've always found myself using the mixed set or the sub + 3 attacks set. I have tried band, and despite its awesome power I always found myself getting revenged easily. The mix set allows it to hit hard on both sides of the spectrum, no one can really ignore that nice base 120 special attack. While the sub cube can set up a sub on weak attacks and just go to town, and cannot be easily revenged. Kyurem B has excellent bulk that can be abused, and the Sub d claw set looks quite interesting, as does the sub hone claws that I will test soon.
I also thought something like that, but a Hail version of it, with Substitute/Dragon Claw (Or Outrage)/Fusion Bolt/Blizzard, but I don't have a Hail team (I prefer Sand :P) so I haven't tested it
Most people complain that Kyurem-B's gigantic 170 Attack is wasted with its poor physical movepool. They are right, but they don't remember Kyurem-B also has a high 120 Special Attack stat that has a far more useful movepool
It may not be the physical nightmare we expected it to be before BW2 was released, but it's now one of the best Mixed Dragons in OU, if not the best, with its Speed and its Bullet Punch weakness as its only problems (Compared to most Mixed Dragons of course. That's why I didn't list its SR weakness)
The only other mixed dragon in ou thats really any good as a stand out set is salamence an the only downside to mence is the fact he is considerably weaker. Typing, move pool, speed all go to mence, as to who is better, I have no opinion on the matter.
lol man, I've always wondered to myself "when would a Lax nature be even remotely useful? perhaps a mixed attacking tank that for some reason can't sacrifice its Speed?" and here it is. You know you're desperate when you're running Lax; I'd say Relaxed is the better nature so you don't sacrifice any of its bulk. Honestly, with Lax, you're not even outrunning Jolly Tyranitar (although getting the jump on 16 Speed Tentacruel is cool I guess).
I've been having a lot of success with the Sub-Hone Claws set, but subbing in Fusion Bolt instead of Roost. Works wonders on my rain team, and its subs are so bulky its amazing. The best is tanking a Heatran's earth power and it doesnt even break your sub.
I've revisited Kyurem-B's oft-laughed at Choice Band set and I have been really pleased. A very simple Drag-Mag team has gotten me high on the PS! ladder and Kyurem-B plays a crucial part in it simply because its Outrage is so strong that it can weaken a steel to a point where only 1 hit is needed to take it out with another Dragon. It also nets a lot of surprise KO's. You may be wondering how a poke with 170 base Atk gets surprise KO's: I am using max HP as opposed to max Speed. Surprisingly when you run Max HP, almost all the crap the is supposed to revenge kill you after SR misses out on the KO. Since you bring in Kyurem-B on slower targets to outrage on, they can not tell the difference between you running max speed (which is the standard) or not. Here some calcs to illustrate:
Techniloom / LO Scizor (same attack stat and base power priority moves)
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 283-335 (72.37 - 85.67%) 75% chance to OHKO after SR
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 283-335 (62.33 - 73.78%) 0% chance to OHKO after SR
Lefties/Scarf Keldeo
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 278-330 (71.09 - 84.39%) 68% chance to OHKO after SR
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 278-330 (61.23 - 72.68%) 0% chance to KO after SR
Lefties Gengar
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 286-338 (73.14 - 86.44%) 75% chance to OHKO after SR
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 286-338 (62.99 - 74.44%) 0% chance to OHKO after SR
There are other but these are some I have encountered so far.
Techniloom / LO Scizor (same attack stat and base power priority moves)
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 283-335 (72.37 - 85.67%) 75% chance to OHKO after SR
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 283-335 (62.33 - 73.78%) 0% chance to OHKO after SR
Lefties/Scarf Keldeo
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 278-330 (71.09 - 84.39%) 68% chance to OHKO after SR
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 278-330 (61.23 - 72.68%) 0% chance to KO after SR
Lefties Gengar
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 286-338 (73.14 - 86.44%) 75% chance to OHKO after SR
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 286-338 (62.99 - 74.44%) 0% chance to OHKO after SR
There are other but these are some I have encountered so far.
I have seen the sub Hone claws set, and what is amazing is that so many things can't break the sub. Having all that decent bulk does make up for that surprisingly mediocre speed stat. With one hone claws boost, Kyurem-B 2HKO'd a conkeldurr with Dragon Tail. I also saw another battle where Kyurem-B and its Hone Claws set singlehandedly phazed a team with some hazards support. However, I have yet to see any of the other variants mentioned in the OP. I wonder if we will see any other physical OU dragons (Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus) after this tier shift.
The only thing I find lacking in this beast is Ice Shard.
The only thing I find lacking in this beast is Ice Shard.
CB Kyurem-B + Scarf MoxieMence actually works really well, a bit like the Raquaza+Salamence combo.
Only thing to worry about are things that outspeed Mence, which can easily be solved by a priority attacker ala Scizor/Mamoswine etc.
Kyu-B + Duggy is actually good on sun / rain teams. I admittedly haven't used Kyu-B much, but the scarf set tears through offensive teams, considering they rely on offensive resistance in Genesect to beat most Dragons, and Gene falls to Kyu-B so it beats most Deo-D offense, etc., much more easier.
Simply putting together what I've heard (I'm a noob amongst you very experienced folks), it seems like the Careful Sub Hone Claws and the Adamant Choice Band and Choice Scarf sets are seeing the most use/popularity (with Pillsbury running CB HP and Speed over Atk and Speed). I wonder which one of these builds has the "broadest" application (can be useful on the most amount of teams)?
I usually make up for the lack of speed with Ninjask, and just Baton Pass Speed Boosts, and maybe a sub or Swords Dance. Surprisingly, I've seen people without ANY of the major priority users, and they got WRECKED! As for Breloom, Ninjask does a lot of damage to Breloom with Aerial Ace.
So ive been facing some Kyurem-B's on the ladder, and I have to say my self disappointed as I really thought it would be huge here in OU, but it really isnt. It can easely be revenge by common scarfers like Terrakion, Salamence, Keldeo and Latios, also with the big use off Scizor and Breloom this doesnt makes it easier for him to break thorugh teams, the thing is that this guy really cant beat through here in OU because it needs a lot off support and that movepool doesnt really make him shine either. So from my thoughts off facing him I will say that hes mediocre in OU, but that there is always something to explore as with that massive Attack stat, and overall good stats it can be a huge threath if the set is right, and if played right.
Well sorry for doubble post !
But ive worked out a set that beats every none steel type in the tier under a sub, this set OHKO's or 2HKO's ALL pokemon in OU bar steel types. Also it 3HKO's ALL steel types in OU.
Also you might get surprised Ferrothorn and Skarmory cant wall this set both gets 2HKO'd, not even max Def Skarm can wall it.
Kyurem-B @ Icicle Plate
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 184 HP | 252 Atk | 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Substitute | Freeze Shock | Fusion Bolt | Roost
This set is awesome, so first off ill explain the EVs. 72 Spd lets Kyu-B outspeed all base 61 Spd pokemon this means that this Kyu can beat Jolly Tyranitar while beeing under a Sub, this spread also lets Kyu outspeed 16 Spd Tentacruel, Standard Jirachi/Celebi, bulky Rotom-W and speed ties with Gliscor which doesnt matter as Freeze Shock OHKO's it anyway, 252 Atk to hit as hard as possible, and Freeze Shock is just ridicoulus doing around 50% to wall Jellicent, the rest put in HP for maximizing bulk and with this spread Kyurem's substitutes gets incredibly bulky. Also with Freeze Shock + Fusion Bolt Kyu gets the best coverage it can get withouth getting stucked to Outrage or minimize its speed or defenses with Earth Power, Roost is for regaining HP so it can be around for a longer time and set up subs more often, as Kuy's sub is so bulky it can afford to run a Icicle plate which let Freeze Shock have a BP off 252 STAB attack, which is pretty much insane due to its already massive Attack stat.
How I actually came up with this set was actually because off SubPunch, this works just about the same and with all the switches Kyu-B forces it can easy set up a sub and fire off. Also a thing I noticed this guy totally needs EQ, with EQ this set would have been so insanely strong with nearly no counters at all.
EDIT: Leftovers are also viable as this lets your longivety increase in Sand, but Dugtrio can easely fix this as its an excellent partner and Kyurem-B beats Tyranitar under sub anyway, just for the people like beeing safe and really dont feel that roosting all to much will fit them.
So what do you guys think off this set ?
But ive worked out a set that beats every none steel type in the tier under a sub, this set OHKO's or 2HKO's ALL pokemon in OU bar steel types. Also it 3HKO's ALL steel types in OU.
Also you might get surprised Ferrothorn and Skarmory cant wall this set both gets 2HKO'd, not even max Def Skarm can wall it.
Kyurem-B @ Icicle Plate
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 184 HP | 252 Atk | 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Substitute | Freeze Shock | Fusion Bolt | Roost
This set is awesome, so first off ill explain the EVs. 72 Spd lets Kyu-B outspeed all base 61 Spd pokemon this means that this Kyu can beat Jolly Tyranitar while beeing under a Sub, this spread also lets Kyu outspeed 16 Spd Tentacruel, Standard Jirachi/Celebi, bulky Rotom-W and speed ties with Gliscor which doesnt matter as Freeze Shock OHKO's it anyway, 252 Atk to hit as hard as possible, and Freeze Shock is just ridicoulus doing around 50% to wall Jellicent, the rest put in HP for maximizing bulk and with this spread Kyurem's substitutes gets incredibly bulky. Also with Freeze Shock + Fusion Bolt Kyu gets the best coverage it can get withouth getting stucked to Outrage or minimize its speed or defenses with Earth Power, Roost is for regaining HP so it can be around for a longer time and set up subs more often, as Kuy's sub is so bulky it can afford to run a Icicle plate which let Freeze Shock have a BP off 252 STAB attack, which is pretty much insane due to its already massive Attack stat.
How I actually came up with this set was actually because off SubPunch, this works just about the same and with all the switches Kyu-B forces it can easy set up a sub and fire off. Also a thing I noticed this guy totally needs EQ, with EQ this set would have been so insanely strong with nearly no counters at all.
EDIT: Leftovers are also viable as this lets your longivety increase in Sand, but Dugtrio can easely fix this as its an excellent partner and Kyurem-B beats Tyranitar under sub anyway, just for the people like beeing safe and really dont feel that roosting all to much will fit them.
So what do you guys think off this set ?
Freeze Shock without a power herb just screams "please switch to something that resists / quad resists me and then kill me"; every team packs a bulky water nowadays or can just break the sub and kill Kyu.
There is not much resisting Freeze Shock, and Fusion Bolt rounds off for pretty decent coverage as only Water/Fire/Steel and Ice resist its STAB move and gets 2HKO'd by Freeze Shock or by Fusion Bolt after. And beeing under a sub Kyurem-B can just roost up and switch out, or hit again and that hard. Try to be positive, you've seen the power from SubPunch sets, this has the same idea.
With SubPunch, you hit in one turn if they don't hit you. Freeze Shock takes two turns instead, so its incredibly easy to switch a resist in, and you can basically just keep an electric resist in to wall it, since Freeze Shock broadcasts that you're using it and they can switch in an Ice resist.
Yes this is true, but when forcing the opposing pokemon out you will still hit, and yeah I kinda got the point as Focus Punch charge before it get hitted so that kinda sux tho..