New to Pokemon VGC but not new to competitive gaming

[rockmanfan]

Ok, I'm a little nervous, this is my first post on the forums. I read through the rules and hopefully am not breaking any of them.

I've been playing pokemon since the original red and blue stateside releases, but this will be my first official tournament.
I'm totally open to any and all criticism as I'm not even sure if my team is viable in the meta game.
I did some research and decided to go with a rain based team.
I know they're popular, but they also seem very effective with lots of benefits.
Eager to hear what you guys have to say!

Politoed
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Item: Wacan Berry
Nature: Calm
Ability: Drizzle
EV's: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 D
Moveset:

• Scald
• Ice Beam
• Encore
• Protect

Nothing particularly special or surprising here. The staple of most rain teams. I tried to prioritize bulk and survivability. Encore has lots of handy uses like taking care of trick room.
TBH, I'm kind of considering cutting him. He feels like a fragile target a lot of the time. And I think Thunderus and Tornadus-t combined might be enough to keep rain up by themselves. You guys would know best tho.

Tornadus-T
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Item: Life Orb
Nature: Timid
Ability: Regenerator
EV's: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:

• Hurricane
• Super Power
• U-Turn
• Taunt or Rain Dance

One of my main damage dealers. Predictable moveset I know, but effective. Hurricane boosted by rain, Super Power for coverage. With his amazing speed I really want to add Taunt, but I'm worried I might need more rain coverage in case they take my Politoed out.

Thundurus
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Item: Electric Gem
Nature: Timid
Ability: Prankster
EV's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset:

• Thunder
• Thunder Wave
• Rain Dance
• Substitute

Another kind of obvious choice and great damage dealer for a rain team. Thunder boosted by rain. My main reason for adding him tho, is I really wanted a pokemon with Prankster and he just seemed like the best one. Priority Thunder Wave, Rain Dance and Substitute are all amazing. I'm a little worried about the lack of bulk tho...

Breloom
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Item: Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Moveset:

• Spore
• Mach Punch
• Bullet Seed
• Protect

This has recently become one of my favorite pokemon ever. He's fast, powerful, pretty much the best Spore user. He's protected from fire in rain and boosted by the sun. An easy choice, however, I'm once again worried about bulk..

Metagross
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Item: Occa Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Clear Body
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Moveset:

• Meteor Mash
• Bullet Punch
• Explosion
• Protect

I've been expressing my concerns with bulk this whole time and Metagross seemed like a good addition. His metal typing shielded by the rain, dealing as much damage as possible before self destructing.

Chandelure
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Item: Fire gem
Nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
EV's: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Moveset:

• Heat Wave
• Shadow Ball
• Trick Room
• Protect

I know he doesn't seem like a good choice for a rain team, but that's why I added him. I wanted some sort of unexpected surprise that would take care of threats like Ninetails or if my water support runs dry. He also pairs up quite well along side Breloom. And Trick room is there to deal with other Trick Room users.

Well that's that. I hope I followed all the rules.
I'm anxious to hear if my team is any good or totally stinks XD
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[M. Rock]

I want to point out right away that this team has not much in the way of Electric resistances, and nothing except a Politoed w/unSTABed Ice Beam to hit Dragons super effectively. I'll go more in-depth with bullet points:

- Rotom-W, arguably the most popular Electric-type in the tier, has a field day with this team. Nothing resists Thunderbolt outside of Breloom, which your opponent may have a means of dealing with. Even Specs Rotom-W can outspeed and kill with Hidden Power Ice...although you can survive with a sash and OHKO unless rotom runs 252 HP EVs. Then again he is on a lot of sand teams, and Breloom would just die to residual damage. You could even run Hidden Power Grass over Encore on Politoed if you wanted.

- Dragons could give you a hard time because you have no super effective move for them. In particular, I can see Multiscale Dragonite being a problem. To somewhat help I would recommend HP Ice over Substitute on Thundurus, since he is rather frail.

- While we're on the subject of Thundurus, you said you added him only because you wanted Prankster. And you are worried about his bulk. May I suggest a Calm Thundurus instead? It is a supporting Pokemon that serves more or less the same role as Zapdos, but it's niche is greater speed and access to Prankster Twaves. May I suggest this set?

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry/Electric Gem
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 196 HP / 204 SDef / 108 Spd
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt/Thunder

This was used by the San Jose seniors runner up a few months ago (and it was used by Wolfe Glick, a Worlds Finalist, but he had Electric Gem instead). It has good power and coverage, great support, and enough bulk to survive a Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor from Timid 252 SpA Latios. Taunt also shuts down Cresselia, who unfortunately, can paralyze the majority of your team. I know you have Chandelure, but most Cresselia are EVed with special bulk in mind and more than ready to take those hits.

- That said, you could actually replace Metagross with Scizor. Now stay with me on this: both counter the same exact Pokemon, both have trouble against the exact same Pokemon, and both pair well with the exact same teammates. Read both their on-site VGC12 analyses and you'll see what I mean. Scizor trades some bulk for better offensive coverage, and with STAB Technician Bug Bite, it can reliably 2HKO any Cresselia right through its Sitrus Berry! Also, Bullet Punch is so much more reliable than Meteor Mash IMO.

- You need something better to deal with Sun than a lone Chandelure. In fact, I can't really see it having much of a purpose on your team. In the rain, it's restricted to Shadow Ball. Without a Focus Sash, it can get killed surprisingly quickly, even in the sun. You should remove it. There is more of an explanation on this further down.

- Any team that has both Blizzard and Rock Slide can give you some serious trouble. Ways to remove these weaknesses: Put Cresselia over Chandelure. I have a few good ideas for a Cresselia set that could help your team; at least two of it's moves would be Psyshock and Trick Room. I'm contemplating the other two, but know that this thing can set up Rain Dance; good surprise value, and plenty of bulk to do so. I'll post back with it later tomorrow, I'm kind of running out of steam at this hour. Protip: get more sleep :p

- I'm thinking you might benefit from a more offensive Politoed, but I don't want to touch that before the rest of your team gets ironed out

- I can think of a few options that could be better than Tornadus-T. But before shooting them out, I want you to post your experience with using him and how effective he is. I also want to know how long you had this team and how successful it's been so far. What have been your biggest hurdles that you've encountered? Theorymoning all of this is great, but if you have more experience and more meat to your descriptions, it's easier for you to recognize your flaws and easier for others to help you. I want to recommend a Kingdra set, but again, I'd rather hear your experience with Tornadus because I don't want to remove an important member of your team.

I'm a bit tired now, but I'll be back later with more substance to my advice. Because I like rating teams, it keeps me sharp! Hope I helped somewhat

 

[tlyee61]

I want to point out right away that this team has not much in the way of Electric resistances, and nothing except a Politoed w/unSTABed Ice Beam to hit Dragons super effectively. I'll go more in-depth with bullet points:

- Rotom-W, arguably the most popular Electric-type in the tier, has a field day with this team. Nothing resists Thunderbolt outside of Breloom, which your opponent may have a means of dealing with. Even Specs Rotom-W can outspeed and kill with Hidden Power Ice...although you can survive with a sash and OHKO unless rotom runs 252 HP EVs. Then again he is on a lot of sand teams, and Breloom would just die to residual damage. You could even run Hidden Power Grass over Encore on Politoed if you wanted.

- Dragons could give you a hard time because you have no super effective move for them. In particular, I can see Multiscale Dragonite being a problem. To somewhat help I would recommend HP Ice over Substitute on Thundurus, since he is rather frail.

- While we're on the subject of Thundurus, you said you added him only because you wanted Prankster. And you are worried about his bulk. May I suggest a Calm Thundurus instead? It is a supporting Pokemon that serves more or less the same role as Zapdos, but it's niche is greater speed and access to Prankster Twaves. May I suggest this set?

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry/Electric Gem
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 196 HP / 204 SDef / 108 Spd
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt/Thunder

This was used by the San Jose seniors runner up a few months ago (and it was used by Wolfe Glick, a Worlds Finalist, but he had Electric Gem instead). It has good power and coverage, great support, and enough bulk to survive a Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor from Timid 252 SpA Latios. Taunt also shuts down Cresselia, who unfortunately, can paralyze the majority of your team. I know you have Chandelure, but most Cresselia are EVed with special bulk in mind and more than ready to take those hits.

- That said, you could actually replace Metagross with Scizor. Now stay with me on this: both counter the same exact Pokemon, both have trouble against the exact same Pokemon, and both pair well with the exact same teammates. Read both their on-site VGC12 analyses and you'll see what I mean. Scizor trades some bulk for better offensive coverage, and with STAB Technician Bug Bite, it can reliably 2HKO any Cresselia right through its Sitrus Berry! Also, Bullet Punch is so much more reliable than Meteor Mash IMO.

- You need something better to deal with Sun than a lone Chandelure. In fact, I can't really see it having much of a purpose on your team. In the rain, it's restricted to Shadow Ball. Without a Focus Sash, it can get killed surprisingly quickly, even in the sun. You should remove it. There is more of an explanation on this further down.

- Any team that has both Blizzard and Rock Slide can give you some serious trouble. Ways to remove these weaknesses: Put Cresselia over Chandelure. I have a few good ideas for a Cresselia set that could help your team; at least two of it's moves would be Psyshock and Trick Room. I'm contemplating the other two, but know that this thing can set up Rain Dance; good surprise value, and plenty of bulk to do so. I'll post back with it later tomorrow, I'm kind of running out of steam at this hour. Protip: get more sleep :p

- I'm thinking you might benefit from a more offensive Politoed, but I don't want to touch that before the rest of your team gets ironed out

- I can think of a few options that could be better than Tornadus-T. But before shooting them out, I want you to post your experience with using him and how effective he is. I also want to know how long you had this team and how successful it's been so far. What have been your biggest hurdles that you've encountered? Theorymoning all of this is great, but if you have more experience and more meat to your descriptions, it's easier for you to recognize your flaws and easier for others to help you. I want to recommend a Kingdra set, but again, I'd rather hear your experience with Tornadus because I don't want to remove an important member of your team.

I'm a bit tired now, but I'll be back later with more substance to my advice. Because I like rating teams, it keeps me sharp! Hope I helped somewhat

hi, that would be me. Minor nitpick but wolfe mentioned that it only survives it 13/16 times. Here are some suggestions:

if you use thundurus-i: try replacing taunt / hp ice with swagger and give metagross a lum berry to power him up greatly.

you could also try thundurus-t, he provides good offense and pairs well with politoed and thundurus.

try replacing chandelure with terrakion. he is a good sun counter and pairs extremely well with thundurus / tornadus / scizor or meta

if you want a bulkier spore user, give amoonguss a try. he can redirect attacks and pairs well with terrakion and thundurus

i would also recommend cress. give her swagger, tr, psyshock and somethng else. she pairs up nicely with thundurus/terrakion/metagross
you can use the same swagger strategy with metagross and cresselia

 

[M. Rock]

hi, that would be me. Minor nitpick but wolfe mentioned that it only survives it 13/16 times. Here are some suggestions:

if you use thundurus-i: try replacing taunt / hp ice with swagger and give metagross a lum berry to power him up greatly.

you could also try thundurus-t, he provides good offense and pairs well with politoed and thundurus.

try replacing chandelure with terrakion. he is a good sun counter and pairs extremely well with thundurus / tornadus / scizor or meta

if you want a bulkier spore user, give amoonguss a try. he can redirect attacks and pairs well with terrakion and thundurus

i would also recommend cress. give her swagger, tr, psyshock and somethng else. she pairs up nicely with thundurus/terrakion/metagross
you can use the same swagger strategy with metagross and cresselia

Wow, small world isn't it?

Seconding Tylee's suggestions for Terrakion and SwaggerLum, they will be great assets to you.

Cresselia's last move should be a matter of personal preference, but three ideas that jump out at me: Rain Dance (for putting the weather back), Rest (if you want to run a ChestoRest strategy and keep Cress around a long time), and Ice Beam (which gives Cress good offensive coverage). As for EV spreads, I found these two to work rather well, which one you pick depends on what you want to survive:

Calm, 252 HP/28 SpA/216 SpD/12 Spe @ Sitrus Berry
Max HP for bulk, coupled with SpD to take assaults from Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, and other weather teams all day. 28 SpA lets you 2HKO Hitmontop with Psyshock and 2HKO Tornadus-I and Thundurus-I with Ice Beam. The other 12 are a speed creep to outspeed other Cresselia and Modest Rotom formes with no speed investment.

Another alternative is that you could use the same as above except with 176 SpD and putting the other 40 into Def. It still lets you survive attacks like Volcarona's Bug Buzz while allowing Cress to take less from Fake Out and slightly less from Sucker Punches. Tylee suggested this for my team, and it works pretty well, although you could use the first one if you're dead set on having a huge amount of special bulk

 

[tlyee61]

Another alternative is that you could use the same as above except with 176 SpD and putting the other 40 into Def. It still lets you survive attacks like Volcarona's Bug Buzz while allowing Cress to take less from Fake Out and slightly less from Sucker Punches. Tylee suggested this for my team, and it works pretty well, although you could use the first one if you're dead set on having a huge amount of special bulk

another minor nitpick, but he would be wasting EVs there. 36 would give the exact same number. btw, if you want more physical bulk go 60 Def EVs to always live Dark Gem Ttar crunch + sand

 

[rockmanfan]

First of all I'd like to say thanks so much for all the advices.
Secondly, I'd like to apologize, as I said before I'm new and I thought I read all the rules(most rules in forums are all usually common sense things >_<;;) but I didn't realize there were sub forum specific rules(which totally makes sense after reading them). That being said, I admittedly have not play tested my team at all outside of the standard game. I formed this team after researching the meta and combining my knowledge from other competitive games I've played. I read all the rules now, I understand if this thread gets closed or infracted. Hopefully not >_<
I'm just now learning about battling 101 and there are battle simulators I can download? That must be how you guys play test so quickly and thoroughly.
I'm a little worried about time constraints tho. The tournament is less than a month away(I literally live like a ten minute walk from where they're holding it, seems like a waste to not go..) and I already have two unique pokemon on my team, probably more after reading your recommendations. I still need to catch these guys with the natures and possibly even IV's I need to compete properly >_<;;; I actually went out and bought copies of original Black and White just for the sake of catching proper Thunderus and Tornadus...

 

[tlyee61]

First of all I'd like to say thanks so much for all the advices.
Secondly, I'd like to apologize, as I said before I'm new and I thought I read all the rules(most rules in forums are all usually common sense things >_<;;) but I didn't realize there were sub forum specific rules(which totally makes sense after reading them). That being said, I admittedly have not play tested my team at all outside of the standard game. I formed this team after researching the meta and combining my knowledge from other competitive games I've played. I read all the rules now, I understand if this thread gets closed or infracted. Hopefully not >_<
I'm just now learning about battling 101 and there are battle simulators I can download? That must be how you guys play test so quickly and thoroughly.
I'm a little worried about time constraints tho. The tournament is less than a month away(I literally live like a ten minute walk from where they're holding it, seems like a waste to not go..) and I already have two unique pokemon on my team, probably more after reading your recommendations. I still need to catch these guys with the natures and possibly even IV's I need to compete properly >_<;;; I actually went out and bought copies of original Black and White just for the sake of catching proper Thunderus and Tornadus...

If you're pressed for time, go over to NuggetBridge and request them in the trading section. You could also download them off of Pokecheck, but be aware that the Pokemon will come with a ribbon attached. Some battle simulators are Pokemon Online, an offline client (with the Skarmbliss VGC server) and Pokemon Showdown, an online client (with the nuggetbridge server)

 

[rockmanfan]

If you're pressed for time, go over to NuggetBridge and request them in the trading section. You could also download them off of Pokecheck, but be aware that the Pokemon will come with a ribbon attached. Some battle simulators are Pokemon Online, an offline client (with the Skarmbliss VGC server) and Pokemon Showdown, an online client (with the nuggetbridge server)

Wow, thank you so much. I never knew about this site. I was able to trade pokemon easily and Pokemon Showdown is amazing. I'm definitely going to spend tons of time there.

I'm still play testing and learning the meta in general, but I'm going to update my team and post my findings.