OU Stats - December 2012

[TaBuu]

Even in an environment where Rain is the dominant weather, Heatran is still able to hit the Top 5 Most Used List.
I don't think the fact that Rain is dominant is the whole reason as to why Infernape is so underused. Rain dominance definitely hurts Infernape a lot; however, people should not take that as their sole argument against Infernape. Heatran is a good example.

We should ask ourselves, Why is Heatran able to maintain a high usage stat, even when the current metagame is unfavorable for it? The reason is because Heatran has ways to still hold a position and be useful even if Rain is dominant. Heatran is a superb Special Wall thanks to it unique Fire-Steel Typing. It is also able to act as a wonderful Sun/Hail Counter thanks to its Ability, Flash Fire, and its typing (once again). Basically Heatran has various roles it can take on ranging from Wall to Specs to Scarf to Weather Trapper.

Now let's look at Infernape. Infernape has two great STABs that can be abused. Infernape holds a wonderful 108 Base Speed along with a respectable movepool.
Infernape is also able to take on many Variants from Scarf to Mix to Band to Sweeper.
However, this is pretty much where it ends. Infernape's Offensive stats are pretty average, if not a little above average. Infernape lacks a solid Defensive Typing and lacks useful Resistances that he can take advantage of. Lucario who is frailer than Infernape has a plethora of Resistances to take advantage of. Then one must look at the actual viability of his sets. CB? Why not leave that to Terrakion who has better STABs, more Bulk, and more Power? Swords Dance? Lucario has an easier time setting up thanks to all those resistances; plus, Lucario has more Power and can actually afford to run Adamant Nature. Scarf? While it does have its perks as a premium Scout, one must keep in mind that it takes some heavy competition from the likes of Terrakion and Keldeo.
And finally, to add insult to injury, Infernape suffers from the dominant Rain playstyle, making even his viable sets such as MixApe or ScarfApe, a little underwhelming at times.

 

[SuperHydreigon1996]

| 1 | Scizor | 184871 | 19.225% | 148224 | 19.058% |
| 2 | Politoed | 174969 | 18.195% | 160722 | 20.665% |
| 3 | Ferrothorn | 159378 | 16.574% | 138075 | 17.753% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 152726 | 15.882% | 119202 | 15.327% |
| 5 | Heatran | 135058 | 14.045% | 111131 | 14.289% |
Nothing surprising here so far
| 25 | Infernape | 78792 | 8.194% | 63837 | 8.208% |
| 26 | Keldeo | 72344 | 7.523% | 55916 | 7.190% |
...Why the hell is Infernape used more than Keldeo?! What do people see in that monkey in a rain-infested metagame?
| 34 | Kyurem-Black | 62560 | 6.506% | 47664 | 6.128% |
Looks like people are starting to use Kyurem-B more. Its sets are indeed really powerful. Most powerful wallbreaker in OU
| 38 | Hydreigon | 60001 | 6.240% | 47213 | 6.071% |
This guy needs more love. He's one of the most powerful wallbreakers in OU right now.
| 46 | Latias | 51380 | 5.343% | 40249 | 5.175% |
Why isn't she used more? She's a better check/counter to rain teams than Latios.

Well, nothing really became OU, but Chansey did drop to UU...

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

We should ask ourselves, Why is Heatran able to maintain a high usage stat, even when the current metagame is unfavorable for it? The reason is because Heatran has ways to still hold a position and be useful even if Rain is dominant. Heatran is a superb Special Wall thanks to it unique Fire-Steel Typing. It is also able to act as a wonderful Sun/Hail Counter thanks to its Ability, Flash Fire, and its typing (once again). Basically Heatran has various roles it can take on ranging from Wall to Specs to Scarf to Weather Trapper

Basically Heatran differentiates itself from all other Fire-types thanks to its typing. It's one of the key factors that mantain his usefulness on this meta. Apart from being an amazing special wall, and an weather trapper, it can be an offensive supporter that can also kill dragons, setup Stealth Rock, sweep late-game, shut down walls, spread status, or even phaze. Also, rain doesn't impede Heatran from OHKOing most Steel-types with its powerful Fire-type attacks:

252SpAtk Heatran (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Ferrothorn (+SpDef): 72% - 86% (256 - 304 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252SpAtk Heatran (Neutral) Fire Blast in Rain vs 252HP/232SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Skarmory (+SpDef): 54% - 64% (182 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

That's why Heatran is so useful and viable on this metagame, even though it's a Fire-type between so many Rain threats. So, unlike most Fire-types, Heatran's place on top 5 most used Pokémon is well-deserved.

 

[TaBuu]

@Dark Fallen Angel:
LOL I don't know if you're supprting, going against, or correcting me...

But I will say that I agree with:

That's why Heatran is so useful and viable on this metagame, even though it's a Fire-type between so many Rain threats. So, unlike most Fire-types, Heatran's place on top 5 most used Pokémon is well-deserved.

Also hopefully you saw my point in the Heatran, Infernape, Rain Comparison...

 

[Hyperactivity]

I'm surprised that no UU players have come on this thread screaming about why you guys let Chansey drop. I know that I'm extremely tempted to.

And Abamasnow dropping in time with the return of Haill in UU and below is awesome. We don't have to use Snover anymore.

 

[EggyLv999]

Excuse me, Jellicent #34. The arguably BEST Keldeo check in any tier is 14 places lower than it?! Do people not realize how much of a weakling Keldeo is when facing Jellicent? lol HP Electric and Ghost doing shit for the lose. That aside, Jellicent is still a great special wall with reliable recovery, a FAR better defensive typing than Blissey, the ability to spin-block, and being able to wall Terrakion choice-locked into CC or X-Scissor is pretty big. You could also run a weird Acid Armor set to be able to wall from both ends, and Choice Specs/Scarf Jellicent is a surprising threat. Needs to be at least top 20.

Keldeo's usage simply isn't high enough to justify running jellicent as a dedicated counter.

 

[Halcyon.]

Keldeo's usage simply isn't high enough to justify running jellicent as a dedicated counter.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Jellicent is a fantastic wall outside of countering Keldo and can be a real pain in the ass to offensive teams by spreading burns and recovering off damage. A lot of common rain teams have a problem with him, as few can hit him hard enough to 2HKO before he burns you/recovers in your face. As for countering Keldeo, it really depends on who you're playing. Most good players know how valuable Keldeo is and use him frequently. I've run into Keldeo all over the ladder, and sometimes he can be hard to deal with. I think Jellicent is certainly a good choice to any team (except rain, they should definitely use Tentacruel over him).

 

[EggyLv999]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Jellicent is a fantastic wall outside of countering Keldo and can be a real pain in the ass to offensive teams by spreading burns and recovering off damage. A lot of common rain teams have a problem with him, as few can hit him hard enough to 2HKO before he burns you/recovers in your face. As for countering Keldeo, it really depends on who you're playing. Most good players know how valuable Keldeo is and use him frequently. I've run into Keldeo all over the ladder, and sometimes he can be hard to deal with. I think Jellicent is certainly a good choice to any team (except rain, they should definitely use Tentacruel over him).

Looking at the top ten, tyranitar, breloom, rotom-w, and to an extent, ferrothorn, all break Jellicent. Jellicent has nice typing for walling certain pokemon, but its mediocre defensive stats and large amount of weaknesses allow many pokemon to defeat it easily.

 

[Halcyon.]

Looking at the top ten, tyranitar, breloom, rotom-w, and to an extent, ferrothorn, all break Jellicent. Jellicent has nice typing for walling certain pokemon, but its mediocre defensive stats and large amount of weaknesses allow many pokemon to defeat it easily.

True, but 3/4 of those guys will think twice about switching into him for fear of a burn. He's by no means a "top 10" kind of wall, but considering Keldeo is suspect and that he fills other roles as well, I think his usage is justified.

 

[TheDoctor1]

All hail Scizor, King of OU! (again).

What are Zam and Cloyster doing at 19 and 20 respectively?

And Infernape is STILL higher than Keldeo? At least he dropped 3 spots, I guess.

::sigh::

Zam is amazing and being number 19 makes tons of sense, his sash set is one if not the best revenge killer in ou.

About other stuff. I also don't understand why infernape is still so high in ou

Chaney dropping is a shame but I am guessing he will be banned to bl shortly

I am surprised that celebi and reunc have not moved up since genesect was ban, maybe next month when people get more use to sect being gone. I guess it doesn't help that the new number one poke is scizor.

Sure this is some other stuff but that's all I got atm

 

[Victini Owns]

I don't see why Victini isn't used much more, I'm surprised he's still UU. Seriously it has about 7 good sets (Scarf, Band, Trick Room, Final Gambit, Special, Mixed, Support) so he's really unpredictable, not to mention Choice Band V-create hits harder than Choice Band Outrage from adamant Kyurem-B and this is not even in sun. It also recently got freaking Bolt Strike to shit all over water types and hits harder than STAB Zen Headbutt.

 

[TheDoctor1]

Nope. Chansey has been UU before and it was perfectly manageable. This was before Virizion, Scrafty and Mienshao dropped there, mind you.

I am sort of surpised by this (i guess it happened during the year+ i wasn't playing, or maybe i just forgot he use to be uu) but on the other hand with cross being the most used poke in uu i guess i can see how it makes sense. I am very said about what this will mean for my raikou :(.

 

[Bent1ey]

Technically Moltres can also take advantage of the Rain with -STAB!- Hurricane, but Volcarona is mostly viable because it is a pain to stop after Quiver Dance, it resists most priority and is all around awesome.

And Victini does suffer from a Stealth Rock weakness that Infernape lacks, so it arguably has an aditional problem over the ape.

 

[Antihaxxer]

Yes, Rain is dominant, but only in 20% of the games (and probably less because sometimes, there is two Politoad in one game), so Fire type can still shine !

 

[Arcticblast]

If you're going to use Victini in OU do not use V-Create. The speed and defenses drop make Victini extremely easy to revenge kill. Use Blue Flare instead, which doesn't have the same unfortunate side effects and it will potentially outdamage V-Create on a large number of threats, since many of Victini's switch-ins are physically bulky pokemon.

go home Rayquaza_ you're drunk

V-Create is WHY you use Victini in OU. It's the strongest attack you can possibly use in OU that isn't Explosion or... Rampardos's Head Smash? After STAB it still has 135 base Power in Rain, which is nothing to laugh at. In Rain, Choice Band V-Create is a guaranteed KO on Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock and one turn of Life Orb (73.57 - 86.62% - even if Tornadus lives through that, it's not laughing it off), although you should just be smashing it with Fusion Bolt anyway. If you're using a Sun tean, any offensive switchin to Victini is taking massive damage - even Dragonite can't handle a V-Create. And if you're so worried about being revenge killed, you can use the Trick Room set. Victini is just ridiculously strong.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

@Dark Fallen Angel:
LOL I don't know if you're supprting, going against, or correcting me...

But I will say that I agree with:

That's why Heatran is so useful and viable on this metagame, even though it's a Fire-type between so many Rain threats. So, unlike most Fire-types, Heatran's place on top 5 most used Pokémon is well-deserved.

Also hopefully you saw my point in the Heatran, Infernape, Rain Comparison...

I am supporting you, Heatran is certainly the better Fire-type on OU, and the easiest to fit on teams.

If you're going to use Victini in OU do not use V-Create. The speed and defenses drop make Victini extremely easy to revenge kill. Use Blue Flare instead, which doesn't have the same unfortunate side effects and it will potentially outdamage V-Create on a large number of threats, since many of Victini's switch-ins are physically bulky pokemon.

Apart from what Articblast said above, it doesn't matter if V-Create is less powerful than Blue Fire against physically defensive Pokémon because most of them are neutral, or even weak to V-Create, such as Skarmory or Hippowdon. The only physical wall that I can remember now to be weak to Fire, Slowbro, is smashed by Bolt Strike. V-Create is so powerful that it hits even resists for massive damage, I remember how many times my Tyranitar with HP EVs was taking massive damage ON SANDSTORM just by switching-in on V-Create! And as of note: Even after the speed drop, it was still slower than Victini. It doesn't matter if V-Create lowers speed, because Victini isn't meant to be used as a sweeper anyway, it is a wallbreaker.

 

[Eazy Beast]

ok wtf is going on, 1st you guys bash chansey and went down uu, now you bash on the fire ape. Plz just argue on metagross instead

 

[TaBuu]

ok wtf is going on, 1st you guys bash chansey and went down uu, now you bash on the fire ape. Plz just argue on metagross instead

You obviously need to go back and realize that the arguments and facts presented are pretty accurate. Infernape does struggle in the current Metagame. If you feel otherwise please present a counter-argument. Complaining like a 3 year-old is not the best way to go on about arguing your case.

@Rayquaza_:
Don't use V-Create? I think the arguments on this statement have been dished out.
But if we follow your logic, then I guess people should be running Sacred Sword on Terrakion eh?

 

[moonbase]

What exactly is the reason why victini is in UU, and not in OU?

It has a pretty decent dual stab, it has arguably the 3 greatest pokemon moves ever made in its humongous attacking arsenal, and it is an amazing wall breaker.

I know that today's metagame is not exactly friendly to our cute little friend, but it isn't exactly friendly to a lot of pokemon, most notably Heatran, and that thing is in the top 5 of OU usage statistics. Someone please explain this to me.

Also one more question, what sort of usage does a pokemon have to get to be deemed fit for ubers, or deemed so retarded, that it drops to UU?

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

I think the cutoff is 3,4 but i could be wrong

Edit: 4,3; thanks frog

Edit2: nop, i was right. 3,4

 

[frogoholic101]

What exactly is the reason why victini is in UU, and not in OU?

It has a pretty decent dual stab, it has arguably the 3 greatest pokemon moves ever made in its humongous attacking arsenal, and it is an amazing wall breaker.

I know that today's metagame is not exactly friendly to our cute little friend, but it isn't exactly friendly to a lot of pokemon, most notably Heatran, and that thing is in the top 5 of OU usage statistics. Someone please explain this to me.

Also one more question, what sort of usage does a pokemon have to get to be deemed fit for ubers, or deemed so retarded, that it drops to UU?

It has bad (uninvested) bulk, it can't switch in on anything, it is SR weak, it is Pursuit weak, it fails in Rain (most dominant weather) only thrives in Sun (hardest weather to maintain), it can't really beat any of the top 10 pokemon (bar the steel types), and it is incredibly predictable and actually not that hard hitting (base 100 isn't all that great), and it is slow. If I've missed anthing else out, someone please chip in.

UU/OU cutoff is 4.3% IIRC.

 

[Tressed]

What exactly is the reason why victini is in UU, and not in OU?

It has a pretty decent dual stab, it has arguably the 3 greatest pokemon moves ever made in its humongous attacking arsenal, and it is an amazing wall breaker.

I know that today's metagame is not exactly friendly to our cute little friend, but it isn't exactly friendly to a lot of pokemon, most notably Heatran, and that thing is in the top 5 of OU usage statistics. Someone please explain this to me.

Also one more question, what sort of usage does a pokemon have to get to be deemed fit for ubers, or deemed so retarded, that it drops to UU?

SR weak, main STAB makes it weak to revenge kills, weird STABs defensively, bad STAB in rain, and limiting stats keep Victini down. If it was a little faster, or wasn't a Psychic type (Steel type, anyone?), we would see a whole lot more usage. Its just awkward to fit into a team because it does need a bit of support to get things done.

Aaaannd ninja'ed by Froggy.

 

[Hugin]

Also one more question, what sort of usage does a pokemon have to get to be deemed fit for ubers, or deemed so retarded, that it drops to UU?

Ubers is a banlist, meaning something that is so centralizing and so good at what it does in OU, that it gets kicked out(which is subjective). If something gets used on IIRC 3.3% or more teams in OU, it cannot be used for UU.

 

[Arcticblast]

The OU/UU cutoff is approximately 3.41% usage in OU - 1 in 20 battles. The same thing applies to UU/RU, RU/NU and NU/PU.

 

[Daggerfall]

| 68 | Machamp | 19536 | 2.032% | 16224 | 2.086% |

, not to mention Machamp is bad too! Use Conkeldurr, guys!

Well, Machamp has some use since Dynamicpunch causes confusion. Since confusion has suddenly become popular for some stupid reason, Machamp has a reason to be used over Conkeldurr despite being inferior in pretty much every other way. Because we all know how reliable confusion is, right?