My mistake, I meant whichever one it pleases. I was referring to when you said you'd happily allow Jira to take 12% if my Jira counter also takes 12% to hazards. I meant that imo the counter did its job since Rachi has to switch out of counter and take another 12% from hazards, thus being worn down and unable to magically wish.
Eh, yeah, that prevents Jirachi from healing itself and makes it take more hazard damage. I just think that if you're careful enough with Jirachi and that if you use the predict at the right time, then it won't be enough damage to make a difference. Although seeing as how I didn't use Jirachi in the test, I don't speak from experience.
Because the Risk / Reward vs Tornadus is too high a price to pay. Because bringing in Breloom to tank a possible U-Turn is far too risky when it could very easily eat a Hurricane when you could have simply brought in your Hurricane resist. I am 2 tired to really go into this, and I already brought up Risk / Reward so many times in this thread its not even funny but this is the situation Tornadus-t puts you into, because it is utterly risk free to spam Hurricane, especially when you have regenerator to heal yourself. It is mindlessly easy, click Hurricane and U-Turn out, risk free, while the pressure is on the guy playing against Tornadus having to predict the Hurricane, having to predict the U-Turn (if it wants to avoid bringing in Jirachi time and time again. Again, I went through this many times before but thats why people struggle to play around Tornadus, which it doesn't really lose anything from just switching out, unlike most other pokemon in OU.
I agree with your assessment of Torn-T's impact on Risk/Reward ginga. It skews it in favor of the Torn-T player, just like you said. That was where my Dugtrio-comparison ultimately ended up. What I disagree with is the conclusion you drew from your assessment.
It's so safe for Tornadus to always just click Hurricane, because Regenerator basically negates the need to predict anything, ever. So Tornadus-T has pretty no reason not to click Hurricane when it comes in. And that's why you're always having to go for the Rotom-W or Jirachi or whatever. But if I have even one Pokemon that I'm willing to sac, then I maintain my ability to screw around with Tornadus for a few turns. Honestly, an example's not coming to me right now, but I had one earlier so that I know that there are examples out there somewhere. The only time that you truly cannot do anything about Tornadus-T is when you need all 6 of your Pokemon alive, and you can't afford to sac anything. Torn-T almost always turns that situation into a win for his player (although a lot of other things do too).
ginga, you'll find that I'm all about me, me, me. So I'm going to talk about myself now, if that's alright.
I used a few different teams while laddering, but the one I used most was a balanced Sand team with specially defensive Hippo, and Scarf Terrakion, and a Bronzong. I actually didn't even like the team, but I wanted an excuse to use the cutest Ground type in existence. But that's irrelevant. My point is that on my team, I think Bronzong was the only thing which could actually switch into Tornadus, and it lacked recovery obviously. So my question is, how on earth did I beat Tornadus?
Seeing as how Tornadus is "excellent at keeping his own weather up" and so Hippo's sand was not a reliable answer. And Bronzong would "just keep getting U-Turned out of, until it died". And "Torn-T would just switch out of my Scarfer at no penalty due to Regenerator". Now, I'll grant you, about 70% of the Tornadus's I met were played pretty badly, but that leaves me with about 30% of well-played Tornadus-T's.
No, I am not saying that Tornadus should be OU because you have to have a brain to use it well. I'm just saying that it's not as universally dominating as I think is implied from the Ubers camp. You guys keep making great points about things it can do, but those things don't always pan out for it.
And uhh... I can't remember what else I was gonna say, so conclusion time! I think of Tornadus as being simply a better version of Mienshao. A version of Mienshao that doesn't get out-sped by a bunch of things, that has better bulk, and where Jellicent=Jirachi. Those are the two things that make Mienshao just another decent Fighting-type, and make Torn-T potentially Uber. But in my mind, they just aren't enough to push for a ban.