Is kingdra viable on hyper offense teams? Can dragon pulse be used over draco meteor? How are life orb numbers calculated? And can hp fire be viable on kingdra, in both rain and weatherless?
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Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II
- Thread starter Matthew
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LO number is 10n-1 where n is any natural number (1,2,3,4 etc). pretty easy to see the logic if you think about rounding 10%. frankly though these numbers are like never relevant lol
kingdra is an unusual choice but it has its uses. it's not really a question of "does this fit hyper offense?", more "does this fit my team?" hp fire kingdra sucks in most circumstances since you're basically running it to counterteam rain, and stab rainpump is practically as strong as hp fire. as for dmeteor vs dpulse, you are never going to sweep with dmeteor so it's kind of a question of what you want to do with it. specs king for example can run double stab double stab (surf/dpulse for sweeping, dmeteor/hpump for smash)
kingdra is an unusual choice but it has its uses. it's not really a question of "does this fit hyper offense?", more "does this fit my team?" hp fire kingdra sucks in most circumstances since you're basically running it to counterteam rain, and stab rainpump is practically as strong as hp fire. as for dmeteor vs dpulse, you are never going to sweep with dmeteor so it's kind of a question of what you want to do with it. specs king for example can run double stab double stab (surf/dpulse for sweeping, dmeteor/hpump for smash)
LilOu
PO poopyhead
Lokt, i don't know a lot about this but i can try to answer with my knowledge :]
Think about Genesect. He got download so you use it with uturn when you get the att boost and you use an special att move when you get the satk boost. Know, a good spread for Scarf gene was 8 Atk / 248 Satk / 252 spe. The 8 evs in Atk allows him to get those bonus points when he gets the atk boost, now, i dont know how does it work but i know that you get extra points. Is that what you were looking for? Sorry if i didnt have the correct answer :[
Think about Genesect. He got download so you use it with uturn when you get the att boost and you use an special att move when you get the satk boost. Know, a good spread for Scarf gene was 8 Atk / 248 Satk / 252 spe. The 8 evs in Atk allows him to get those bonus points when he gets the atk boost, now, i dont know how does it work but i know that you get extra points. Is that what you were looking for? Sorry if i didnt have the correct answer :[
What do you mean by tools? Because if you want to know which amount of speed evs should your "x" pokemon run to outspeed certain threat you can use smogon strategy dex.
it's not really a "bonus" point, although i suppose the alternative is losing a point.
in the example you gave, gene's original spread was 4 atk / 252 satk. this makes both its offenses odd, so when you add 50% (for a +1 from download), they round down and lose half a point (each). moving 4 evs from satk to atk makes both of them even. if you have a +1 satk boost, your net satk is the same (because the .5 point wasn't contributing), but if you get a +1 atk boost, now you've gained 1 point of attack (because you added another .5 point).
similarly when EVing pokemon, if you give them a +nature in a stat, you're getting +10% rounded down. floor(200*1.1) = 220, floor(201*1.1)=221 (221.1 but the .1 is truncated off). so on and so forth until you get to 209*1.1=229, and 210*1.1=231. this is generally what is meant by a "free point"; you invested 4 more EVs to get one point and you got an extra one because of the +nature, the extra point happens all at once because of the truncation of the "partial points"
tl;dr it's all a matter of divisibility and floor functions
in the example you gave, gene's original spread was 4 atk / 252 satk. this makes both its offenses odd, so when you add 50% (for a +1 from download), they round down and lose half a point (each). moving 4 evs from satk to atk makes both of them even. if you have a +1 satk boost, your net satk is the same (because the .5 point wasn't contributing), but if you get a +1 atk boost, now you've gained 1 point of attack (because you added another .5 point).
similarly when EVing pokemon, if you give them a +nature in a stat, you're getting +10% rounded down. floor(200*1.1) = 220, floor(201*1.1)=221 (221.1 but the .1 is truncated off). so on and so forth until you get to 209*1.1=229, and 210*1.1=231. this is generally what is meant by a "free point"; you invested 4 more EVs to get one point and you got an extra one because of the +nature, the extra point happens all at once because of the truncation of the "partial points"
tl;dr it's all a matter of divisibility and floor functions
Is it worth it to use a Pokemon who is only effective at walling one classification of attacks? My friend is telling me dedicated special walls, such as Blissey or and Chansey, and dedicated physical walls, such as Forrtress, Skarmory, and Gliscor, should not be used as they can be easily taken down by the other classification.
EDIT: This applies to both Gen IV and Gen V. How could Blissey not be good in Gen IV?
EDIT: This applies to both Gen IV and Gen V. How could Blissey not be good in Gen IV?
I'd argue alakazam and maybe starmie give her a lick of trouble on that list.
Gengar - tickles scald wish protect, if disable, roar
252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 156-184 (33.69 - 39.74%) -- 26.71% chance to 3HKO
Tornadus -T - scald wish protect, rain helps your scalds
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 169-200 (36.5 - 43.19%) -- 99.15% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 195-229 (42.11 - 49.46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Volcarona - assuming you have rocks up, roar and ruin its day if not, scald then roar.
Latios - take the meteor on the switch if specs wish protect
however psyshock can be a problem so this usually only works once vs latios after that it is a prediction war.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 297-349 (64.14 - 75.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 255-301 (55.07 - 65.01%)
Latias roar when it calm mindsalong with a little burn stall.
Hydragion take the draco protect to scout outrage (esp if you see LO) wish protect scald.
And a rotom volt switch calc for laughs
252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 162-192 (34.98 - 41.46%)
252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 156-184 (33.69 - 39.74%) -- 26.71% chance to 3HKO
Tornadus -T - scald wish protect, rain helps your scalds
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 169-200 (36.5 - 43.19%) -- 99.15% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 195-229 (42.11 - 49.46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Volcarona - assuming you have rocks up, roar and ruin its day if not, scald then roar.
Latios - take the meteor on the switch if specs wish protect
however psyshock can be a problem so this usually only works once vs latios after that it is a prediction war.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 297-349 (64.14 - 75.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 255-301 (55.07 - 65.01%)
Latias roar when it calm mindsalong with a little burn stall.
Hydragion take the draco protect to scout outrage (esp if you see LO) wish protect scald.
And a rotom volt switch calc for laughs
252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 162-192 (34.98 - 41.46%)
as you can see vap stands up very well to those threats. heck, this set does sucha good job at counttering tornadus -t i am dumbfounded when I see people complain about it on the forums.
let me rephrase my question, what pokes specifically make physically def more worth it than specially defensive?
lol at your friend
it's definitely an oversimplification to say that the only good walls are mixed walls, because if that was true there would be almost no good walls at all >_> obviously you don't switch blisseys into physical attackers blind and you don't switch skarm into rainpumps.
it could be argued that one-sided walls have troubling vulnerabilities, but really it sounds more like your friend has never heard of switching and assumes that once you send skarm/bliss in, you leave it there until it dies... which is obviously an incompetent way to play the game.
to address the phrasing of your question "is it worth it", that depends a lot on your team. unless you're running full stall (in which you need a certain number of defensive pokemon on each side of the spectrum), chances are you're going to run a defensive pokemon not just for the bulk, but also as an anchor against certain things that threaten your team, or for the utility and support they provide to more offensive components (eg hazards, status spreading). in that case, "whether or not it's worth it" depends intimately on the pokemon you choose and on the team you intend to fit it on
i hope this kind of addresses your question? sounds like you shouldn't be taking your friend's advice too seriously, if that's actually his/her opinion
EDIT: oh and i forgot this earlier. with respect to EV efficiency, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19760 is the tool you should be using. it's not updated for gen V mons, but it's p easy to hack them into the java if you've got nothing to do and feel like decompiling a jar
@rolrctermaniac: the usefulness of physical defense vs special defense depends on the mon. mons like virizion tend to invest in physical defense because water has very few weaknesses and they're almost exclusively special, which means you can take a lot of hits neutrally if you have the bulk - hence the term "bulky water"
EDIT: erm... it's p tough to find specific examples. people could make a 20 page thread about pdef forry vs sdef forry and still wouldn't get anywhere. sdef skarm vs pdef skarm, same thing. sdef celebi vs pdef celebi, same thing. arguably one spread is more "standard" than the other (normally you invest in the defense that your resistances and stats will help the most with - hence heatran is usually sdef, celebi is usually sdef, skarmory/forry are usually physdef), but it's not as if there are no justifications for splitting the defenses a different way. even on pokemon as lopsided as blissey and chansey, there are reasons to invest in special defense (specspumps in rain). i think it would be a careless generalization to say, for a given mon, that investment in a single defense is unarguably superior to investment in the other.
it's definitely an oversimplification to say that the only good walls are mixed walls, because if that was true there would be almost no good walls at all >_> obviously you don't switch blisseys into physical attackers blind and you don't switch skarm into rainpumps.
it could be argued that one-sided walls have troubling vulnerabilities, but really it sounds more like your friend has never heard of switching and assumes that once you send skarm/bliss in, you leave it there until it dies... which is obviously an incompetent way to play the game.
to address the phrasing of your question "is it worth it", that depends a lot on your team. unless you're running full stall (in which you need a certain number of defensive pokemon on each side of the spectrum), chances are you're going to run a defensive pokemon not just for the bulk, but also as an anchor against certain things that threaten your team, or for the utility and support they provide to more offensive components (eg hazards, status spreading). in that case, "whether or not it's worth it" depends intimately on the pokemon you choose and on the team you intend to fit it on
i hope this kind of addresses your question? sounds like you shouldn't be taking your friend's advice too seriously, if that's actually his/her opinion
EDIT: oh and i forgot this earlier. with respect to EV efficiency, http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19760 is the tool you should be using. it's not updated for gen V mons, but it's p easy to hack them into the java if you've got nothing to do and feel like decompiling a jar
@rolrctermaniac: the usefulness of physical defense vs special defense depends on the mon. mons like virizion tend to invest in physical defense because water has very few weaknesses and they're almost exclusively special, which means you can take a lot of hits neutrally if you have the bulk - hence the term "bulky water"
EDIT: erm... it's p tough to find specific examples. people could make a 20 page thread about pdef forry vs sdef forry and still wouldn't get anywhere. sdef skarm vs pdef skarm, same thing. sdef celebi vs pdef celebi, same thing. arguably one spread is more "standard" than the other (normally you invest in the defense that your resistances and stats will help the most with - hence heatran is usually sdef, celebi is usually sdef, skarmory/forry are usually physdef), but it's not as if there are no justifications for splitting the defenses a different way. even on pokemon as lopsided as blissey and chansey, there are reasons to invest in special defense (specspumps in rain). i think it would be a careless generalization to say, for a given mon, that investment in a single defense is unarguably superior to investment in the other.
Thanks for the great response, I wish people would give SP def vap a try D:
I see that many are already coming to a conclusion that the OU council has pretty much decided that Torn-T is Uber and Keldeo is OU. Is the final results posted somewhere or are people just getting info from other voters? It's been awhile and usually it seems that the results would be up by now. If it is posted I can't seem to find the thread.
the votes are in the topic of #suspect (hit it up on IRC) but it's not really official since the thread has not yet been closed
To expand on that, currently at the time of this post, the results are as follows according to #suspect:
Keldeo: 60 OU / 11 Uber / 7 abstain; 85% OU
Tornadus-T: 22 OU / 52 Uber / 4 abstain; 70% Uber
78 of the 82 voters have voted, so it's done and there is a supermajority already for both. Just closing the thread and changing Showdown left until Tornadus-T gets the blazes out of OU.
Keldeo: 60 OU / 11 Uber / 7 abstain; 85% OU
Tornadus-T: 22 OU / 52 Uber / 4 abstain; 70% Uber
78 of the 82 voters have voted, so it's done and there is a supermajority already for both. Just closing the thread and changing Showdown left until Tornadus-T gets the blazes out of OU.
LilOu
PO poopyhead
I think that Meloetta is not Limbo just because she is too powerful for RU with speed higher than Tornadus-T in Piruette form and awesome Attacking stats in both forms. While Darmantan is placed in UU because some factors and Zen mode is something that no one uses and it is so unestable that it might be hard to decide a tier.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
It's propably some database error Meloetta-P also has some parts of Meloettas OU analysis i think someone just messed up a little when they uploaded the Meloetta analysis.
You are also right in your assumption that the limbo tier only exists to showcase Stats, Sprite, Movepool of a Pokemon that isn't released yet or is some kind of forme that can't be brought into battle directly.
When will the results of the suspect test be officially implemented?
LilOu
PO poopyhead
They will be official when you see the thread closed. But the results are obvious, there are only 4 participants that didnt vote so it doesnt matter if they choose OU or Ubers. Keldeo is going to OU and Tornadus to Ubers.
Yes it is banned and it is now Uber on PS
Can calm mind latios fill the same shoes as work up virizion if it were to replace virizion on a team as a set up yet hit hard without set up sweeper? Edit: btw thanks to anyone who answered my last question :)
Kk...could I replace kingdra on a team? Speaking of torn t, since its banned, can virizion come back to ou?
I currently have fast spike deo d, work up virizion, dd dragonite, sd offensive scizor, rain dance kingdra, and sash destiny bond gengar.
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