54.18% - 64.09% is how much Scarftar does to Virizion with Superpower. Not the most reliable check (not to mention Virizion can just Giga Drain most of the HP back). You can double switch Tornadus into Celebi, predict the switch and slam it with Ice Beam, yadda yadda. I know this is probably easier said than done, but the point was that this is one way of reducing your weakness to sand stall. Like I said, I thought of Virizion in less than a minute. Give me an hour and I'd probably end up giving you a better solution. Even a small change like that increases your chances of winning.
I'm not ignoring yee's post either. It's just that it's so similar to yours I can address both of you at the same time. My problem with both of your arguments is that you aren't linking why rain/sun is making team matchups difficult. Your sand stall vs rain offense / sun example just confuses the shit out of me because here you are, saying why rain and sun are broken, yet you use an example which completely shows the opposite - that rain / sun are completely destroyed by sand stall. Yes, I know you're arguing that because rain / sun are so powerful, that people have to rely on using sand stall to beat it, but why is that a bad thing? It's not like sand stall sucks in general that its only purpose is to counter rain and sun. I get reminded of
this. Even then, why does that matter? We have the term "anti-metagame" for a reason. Just because people are running things to counter rain doesn't mean rain is broken in any way, especially if said thing (sand stall), is perfectly viable in its own right. As for Kingdra, even if it's nothing more than a rain check (it's actually a bit more), since rain is dominant, it has that niche. That does not necessarily mean that rain is broken. As for its uselessness, it's not a waste of a mon at all. It can start its own rain (if you ban Drizzle, it can still do that, so it doesn't change anything). Apart from Ferrothorn running around, it actually has a number of ways of getting past different checks. If you look at Kingdra's analysis revamp in C&C, it doesn't just function as a "Rain Counter", but it has 4-5 very viable sets. I like to refer to evolution a lot, and this is no different. Evolution occurs because organisms with mutations survive a change in homeostasis of the ecosystem. The wild type die out. Why do you think sickle cell anaemia exists? It's clearly detrimental to affected people (carriers are slightly anaemic and completely affected people just die). Why, because malaria exists, of course! People get resistance to malaria because they have sickle cell anaemia, so why can't you use Kingdra (or other rain checks) to gain slight resistance to Drizzle?
Now onto address more of yee's post:
Tempted to bring a Sun + Gothitelle + Dug team to beat the Sand Stall we keep talking about? We're aware of that threat and might guess against you. Whichever one of us guessed right wins the game.
Isn't that the case with everything else in Pokemon? You're basically saying "if we predict correctly, we win the game, and whichever predicts right wins the game". Well no shit. You just proved my point. Pokemon is still won through smart play, predictions, and status of the players, not team matchups.
rain forces on you a one dimensional pokemon in Politoed that is useless against everything Balance and slower, while Scarf / Specs Keldeo (and the 20 other abusers we effectively banned already) clearly stand out as the most potent offensive threats. Sure, non weather teams can bring tough water resists to try to wall them but there are Rain teams, they can use clearly superior offensive threats of other kinds to be more threatening to weatherless
Um... no. I don't how many times I've run a team with SubPass Jolteon and standard Dragonite and rain teams have just completely fallen on its ass against it. It's because people run these standard teams where 4 Pokemon are weak to Jolteon, and Ferrothorn becomes free Sub pass fodder to Dragonite to set up. Against the team that BKC listed, it does just that (Toxicroak is not a very switch-in to Jolteon at all while the rest are fried by Thunderbolt. It's about exploiting these kind of weaknesses, not calling for bans.
So basically, you guys are arguing for banning rain / sun / Deo-D because 1) team matchups caused by these archetypes make it impossible to play, which I've already addressed, and 2) that they cut diversity. Number (2) is not a reason of broken conditions, but I'd more attribute it to people not bothering to be creative and just stealing what's efficient. Yes, I know that's not bad in the short term just to get yourself a team, but this is just being simplistic again. I've seen some very colourful and creative teams around the place, and they don't suck. I know this shit because this is all I play Pokemon for now. You will not see me running teams without some sort of weird thing that I'm testing, and while I know the ladder sucks, they're still pretty successful. My current team is
Lead Mew / SD Bisharp / DD Latios / Scarf Gengar / SD Acrobat Scizor / Bulk Up Tornadus. Find one set on that team that is standard. While I know it's not the best team around, but most of the matches I've won, and those I lost are due to me fucking up, not because of inherent team weaknesses. I've also trolled around with shit like Swords Dance Charizard (yes I know it's shit, but God that was fun). Why can't the rest of our community use their creativity, hm?