Ubers CCAT 3 - Skies are Clear

[blitzlefan]

I agree with akuto wholeheartedly on this, and I really like projects like these because they teach me how good players build their teams (not just throwing stuff together nilly-willy like I do XD). Also, though I have tried weather+hazards+spinblocker, I've never thought about using Latios before (why is that?) and I have only started using Terrakion recently, after it was brought up here. (thank you!) Even if we don't learn anything particularly interesting about the metagame, say, if it was like what jackm said, "Offensive Weatherless in Ubers is doomed to cookie-cutter syndrome.", I/we will still gain the knowledge of how to build better teams. :)

Also, for the team, I like Arceus-Ghost over Latios, as it has some different weaknesses/resists from Latios. Also, SD Arceus-Ghost is pretty rare right? (But I've seen it used pretty well by a friend). However, we'll probably need some surefire way around Darkrai if we do so!

 

[Haruno]

Idt our team is cookie cutter or "inovative" at all. Actually i think this is in one of the most clever and original teams i`ve even helped to build. Having all these smart people coming to point out things and suggest things and help out is wonderful and ik we can pull this team together!

4 of the 4 mons we already chose are equivalent to the team that sweep uses on ladder.

 

[blitzlefan]

4 of the 4 mons we already chose are equivalent to the team that sweep uses on ladder.

We've only chosen 3 so far?
Latios
Deoxys-s
Terrakion

and I have no clue what Sweep uses on the ladder...?

 

[lousy918]

We've only chosen 3 so far?
Latios
Deoxys-s
Terrakion

and I have no clue what Sweep uses on the ladder...?

the last mon is like >90% confirmed to be giratina-o anyway
also idk but the only rmt sweep made was the one with liepard
and i didn't really want deoxys-s but there was an overwhelming majority for it so yeah

 

[blitzlefan]

the last mon is like >90% confirmed to be giratina-o anyway
also idk but the only rmt sweep made was the one with liepard
and i didn't really want deoxys-s but there was an overwhelming majority for it so yeah

Nooooooo! I will not let this happen then! As much as I like Giratina-O (Giratina-O + Deoxys-s is excellent), I will do my best to convince you all of Arceus-Ghost's greatness (though I think it has just a tiny bit less usage than Giratina-O). During the day, I'll right something up (it's 12:08 AM right now and I'm running on coffee and I can barely think). But if you're going to run hazards offense, you kind of have to run a spinblocker anyway, and with limited Ghost types in Ubers, I kind of doubt the auxiliary portion of this team will be the innovative part (unless Sableye anyone?).

 

[IAmAnHero]

I think Giratina-O would be a better spinblocker because then we could use another Arceus form to patch up any weaknesses the team will have.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I use SD Arceus-Ghost as a spinblocker and sweeper all in one, with a set similar to EKiller. IMO its a better way since Terrak no longer stops it, it checks normal EKillers well since its immune to ESpeed and is way more offensive than ordinary spinblockers. Plus it's more uncommon especially with CM Arceus-Ghost everywhere.

Also by being a sweeper and spinblocker all in one, we open up more teamslots rather than use a separate sweeper if we choose Giratina-O.

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Multitype
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Extremespeed
-Shadow Claw
-Swords Dance
-Brick Break / Recover

I run Brick Break but I guess with Terrak we might not need it as much and Recover becomes an option.

It has swept teams before

 

[MMII]

So yeah, I kinda cut my last post much shorter than I wanted to so I'm just going to continue off of that.

We need to work on getting our Core down before worrying about Tina vs Ghostceus. We know we are going to run one of them so as long as we keep that in the back of our head we can go on and pick the stuff that'll actually be the heart of our team. Shaymin was mentioned before and I want to go back to it. It actually shares some similar checks and counters but the main problem with it is that Soul Dew Latias is the most common answer to it. (which Latios is obviously not luring out) Tailwind Zekrom benefits from Latios as most teams will use their Ferrothorn to stop the blue dragon which'll mean Zekrom will have an easy time cleaning. Rayquaza benefits from bulky Arceus being softened up and it has Air Lock for weather sweepers. As White already mentioned, a CM Arceus (looking at you Ghost) will be happy to see stuff like Chansey, Ferro, and opposing Arceus softened up. (although, we shouldn't hop onto Arceus too early, we'll need the glue) Anyways, these are just some ideas and some of them are fairly uncommon as well as being solid choices.

 

[akuto]

Actually i think it it would be wise to pick our spinblocker now. So than later we can choose other solid pokes that can support them. Zekrom is a solid choice but that would mean we have 3 dragons (palkia latios) being weak to the huge scarf quaza threat. Also about shaymin, we didnt really discuss him and i think he would be a solid choice. Threating out kyogre on switch in, taking a surf if needed. Also ohko offensive groudon and can come into its eq. Also if someone can hop on ps or something and test drive magic guard wow ghostceus with judgement. I cant being out of town with just my phone.

 

[Haruno]

Actually i think it it would be wise to pick our spinblocker now. So than later we can choose other solid pokes that can support them. Zekrom is a solid choice but that would mean we have 3 dragons (palkia latios) being weak to the huge scarf quaza threat. Also about shaymin, we didnt really discuss him and i think he would be a solid choice. Threating out kyogre on switch in, taking a surf if needed. Also ohko offensive groudon and can come into its eq. Also if someone can hop on ps or something and test drive magic guard wow ghostceus with judgement. I cant being out of town with just my phone.

If we really are sticking with three dragons then we're forced to use steelceus/ferro.

 

[akuto]

Actually i think it it would be wise to pick our spinblocker now. So than later we can choose other solid pokes that can support them. Zekrom is a solid choice but that would mean we have 3 dragons (palkia latios) being weak to the huge scarf quaza threat. Also about shaymin, we didnt really discuss him and i think he would be a solid choice. Threating out kyogre on switch in, taking a surf if needed. Also ohko offensive groudon and can come into its eq. Also if someone can hop on ps or something and test drive magic guard wow ghostceus with judgement. I cant being out of town with just my phone.

Magic coat is what i ment to say

 

[blitzlefan]

Guys, we've established that we're using Deoxys-S, Latios, and Terrakion.

A spinblocker can come later I guess, so let's focus on mons that go well with Latios + Terrakion. These two already have fairly good offensive/defensive synergy, but can't really get past Ghost types. Perhaps a double status Darkrai could work here?

Also, @akuto

Hide

you could've just edited your last post...

 

[lousy918]

Actually wanted to submit Dialga but too late so:
Damn it I keep changing my mind

can we submit more than one

Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Dark Void
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse

With a speed stat that allows it to outspeed Arceus, Darkrai can easily put any Ghostceus or Darkceus to sleep. Should they switch to a sleep absorber to activate sleep clause, no worries; T-Wave would hinder any attempts at a sweep, as they will now get outsped by most of the metagame. So Lugia, heard you wanted to wall Latios? Too bad, coz you're gonna sleep. Darkrai also tends to bait in Tyranitar, which it can damage beyond reparation, allowing Latios to beat it later on. Chansey is the best of all, Darkrai gets a free Dark Void on it, and hits the switch-in hard with an essentially 120 power move coming off a base 135 SAtk, before Dark Voiding that too (thank Natural Cure). Also, scarfers tend to switch in to revenge kill after Dark Void, but are then paralyzed, easing Latios' sweep, as it no longer has to switch out of ScarfKia, ScarfKion and ScarfSect.

lol but still js

EDIT: just realised we get raped by SD ghostceus with espeed even if we use darkrai, so thinking of skarmory > deoxys-s coz imo I would rather not get swept than not weaken the opponent by 25%

 

[blitzlefan]

lol but still js

EDIT: just realised we get raped by SD ghostceus with espeed even if we use darkrai, so thinking of skarmory > deoxys-s coz imo I would rather not get swept than not weaken the opponent by 25%

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Deoxys-S has nothing to worry about because most people don't lead off with their Arceus forms. Also, if they do, Deo-S can Taunt if they SD and simply spam hazards if they attack (and Deo-S isn't supposed to provide any sort of defensive synergy anyway) so if there is a typestacking issue, Deo-S shouldn't be the one to go (being a suicide lead, it's kind of exempt from synergy as just die die die die die) lol Lastly, we can just find some other way around Arceus-Ghost as currently it just hits Latios for STAB SE damage.

 

[Bossness]

If Swords Dance Arceus-Ghost is a problem, then we can just use the Substitute + Nasty Plot Darkrai that I nominated at the start of the CCAT.

Artemis (Darkrai) @ Leftovers
Trait: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Substitute
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot

A Darkrai moveset I first used in puregenius's The Requiem, and also currently use in another team I commonly battle with. Despite its lack of coverage moves, this Darkrai is an unbelievably dangerous offensive threat judging by my own experience from both using and facing it, as the combination of Substitute and Nasty Plot can very easily catch people off guard, since Darkrai rarely uses both of these moves at the same time. If one somehow manages to set up a Nasty Plot while having a Substitute up (which isn't too difficult with some intelligent application of Dark Void, Substitute, one's own prediction skills, as well as the utilization of people's tendency to not expect Darkrai to have both Nasty Plot and Substitute simultaneously), one can pretty much expect Artemis to be able to at least devastate a large portion of the opponent's team before going down (and very likely, the opponent may even need to sacrifice a Choice Scarf-holding Pokémon or a user of a priority move such as their Extreme Killer Arceus in the process of breaking Artemis's Substitute, and being able to eliminate such Pokémon in the opponent's team pretty much for free is always helpful), thanks to its high Speed and incredible power after just a single Nasty Plot. Against some teams, it can even get a free Substitute on the turn in which the opponent switches to their Espeon or Xatu expecting a Dark Void.

Darkrai also beats any Calm Mind Arceus 1 Vs. 1.

 

[Haruno]

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Deoxys-S has nothing to worry about because most people don't lead off with their Arceus forms. Also, if they do, Deo-S can Taunt if they SD and simply spam hazards if they attack (and Deo-S isn't supposed to provide any sort of defensive synergy anyway) so if there is a typestacking issue, Deo-S shouldn't be the one to go (being a suicide lead, it's kind of exempt from synergy as just die die die die die) lol Lastly, we can just find some other way around Arceus-Ghost as currently it just hits Latios for STAB SE damage.

Actually in the last dozen or so games around 7 of them were people leading with their setup arceus against my deo-s. Which is actually pretty smart since deo-s can't threaten it in any way and at the very worst stops it from boosting.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Darkrai can't come in on any of SD Arceus-Ghost's attacks. The best counter to that will be Skarm since it takes pitiful damage from +2 Brick Break and can just Whirlwind, but we already have Deoxys-S. Arceus-Steel is what I think fits in best right now, but even it is 2HKOd. An Arceus-Ghost of our own or any Giratina forme can probably be a shaky check due to Extremespeed immunity, but the former relies on winning speed ties while Giratina Formes get outsped and 2HKOd, meaning that they can ony come in once to phaze. It will be hard to check especially with immunity to CCs and ESpeeds.

 

[akuto]

The problem with ur darkrai set is anything bulky that resists your stab will mess with u. And bulky cm fightceus WILL come in and set up on u no problem. Darkrai i never liked running ever so i would say no.

 

[lousy918]

Ummm... I'm pretty sure Deoxys-S has nothing to worry about because most people don't lead off with their Arceus forms. Also, if they do, Deo-S can Taunt if they SD and simply spam hazards if they attack (and Deo-S isn't supposed to provide any sort of defensive synergy anyway) so if there is a typestacking issue, Deo-S shouldn't be the one to go (being a suicide lead, it's kind of exempt from synergy as just die die die die die) lol Lastly, we can just find some other way around Arceus-Ghost as currently it just hits Latios for STAB SE damage.

its not so much how deoxys-s doesn't care about ghostceus, more of stacking with skarmory as both spikes but whatever floats your boat people.
not saying deoxys-s is bad and all

 

[MMII]

Skarmory will just throw away offensive momentum to stack up on extra support. In general though, keep in mind that offensive teams generally satisfy themselves with just checking threats as losing one of their team members isn't a big deal.

Anyways, I really want to avoid adding Giratina-O to the team. It has really poor synergy with Latios and doesn't really have anything special with Terrak or Deo-S, either. (outside of support stuff) The main thing I feel that is pulling us to picking Tina over Ghostceus, despite the latter's better offensive synergy with Latios, is the fact that it checks so many weather sweepers that are keen on cleaning our helpless team. I thought about it some and I think I came up with a solution. Rayquaza has pretty good offensive synergy with Latios as it is difficult to switch into outside of Arceus (Yeah Lugia, Lando-T, and even Cresselia all fall to standard SD Ray with Rocks up. Screw V-Create.) which also happens to be one of the more common answers to Latios as well. (ignoring rain Ferro of course) Air Lock will let us pick Ghostceus as we don't need Tina to stop the dreaded weather cleaners netting us two solid partners with good synergy at one time.

With that said...

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Trait: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- V-create
- Swords Dance
- ExtremeSpeed


I opted for SD over the Mixed Attacker as I felt the ability to clean was more important than extra wall breaking when we already have Latios. If you guys have any cool minor set changes I'm open to edit them.

 

[jackm]

MM is right. The only thing drawing us to logically choose Giratina-O over Ghostceus is its ability to check weather sweepers; apart from that, it doesn't provide much. Ghostceus, on the other hand, is one of the most reliable win conditions in the game. On a team based around a powerful wallbreaker, a win condition is obviously necessary, and Ghostceus does the job quite well.

 

[akuto]

Unless we run ice beam on ghostceus or something. Than like i said before we are completely open for scarf quaza to sweep.

 

[blitzlefan]

Unless we run ice beam on ghostceus or something. Than like i said before we are completely open for scarf quaza to sweep.

Scarf Rayquaza? That's kind of rare isn't it? But that brings up a good point nonetheless. What's our scarf/revenge killer going to be?
But...
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Rayquaza: 337-396 (96.01 - 112.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
if we do go with SD Rayquaza.
Also, DD Rayquaza could be okay as well?

Edit: *facepalm* How did I forget about Terrakion? But he's more of a late game clear though... he doesn't really have all that much power... hmmmm...

 

[IAmAnHero]

Our scarfer/revenge killer is Terrakion. SD Rayquaza would probably be a cool addition to the team. He's pretty terrifying.

 

[polop]

Unless we run ice beam on ghostceus or something. Than like i said before we are completely open for scarf quaza to sweep.

Terrakion revenge kills, most Rayquaza variants shouldn't be a problem at all really...

Since all of our team except terrakion (but he can destroy weakened spinners though...) can OHKO the most common spinner, Forretress, I wouldn't be so hasty to say a spin blocker is nessecary. Really the only ones that can stand up to Deoxys-S and spin are Kabutops and Tentacruel and both dislike Latios. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with using a spin blocker, its completely viable, just not mandatory.

If we do decide to go with a spinner, everyone should realize its about impossible to stop adding a Dragon. If we choose Ghost Arceus we'll need a Palkia (this is extremely interesting as it doesn't have to use Choice Scarf) or Latias (unless you wanna use Gastrodon or Ludicolo <- I can't see why you'd use that on a non-rain team) to switch into specs ogre. Granted these guys do synergize well offensively with Latios so its not exactly bad... in fact this makes me want to use a Ghost Arceus. Really all three of its sets work well. As long as we use Recover we technically also have something to switch into Draco Meteors (Arceus is just THAT bulky (252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 294-346 (66.21 - 77.92%) ).

I completely agree with using SD or DD or Tailwind (hey, it lets Latios clean up if Rayquaza dies in its sweep and lets it laugh at genesect switch-ins in 1 turn) Rayquaza. What no one has mentioned is that we've failed to address the fact a Support Arceus walls the entire team. Rayquaza helps bypass this issue. All three variants also provide a win condition which is pretty much needed for an offensive team.