The UU Viability Ranking Thread

After using it for a while, I think Tangrowth would be well-suited for B-rank, much to my surprise it wasn't listed yet. It takes physical hits very well, not to mention its durability due to Regenerator and can easily seed/sleep Pokémon on the switch. It very often lures out Chandelure and Roserade as well, allowing you to switch to an appropriate counter.

Any thoughts?
Tangrowth should be in C-Rank. Sure, it is one of the best physical wall which can tank nearly all physical hits, one of the best ability and a great movepool but it is really weak on the Special side and has common weaknesses. Despite its flaws, it deserves the C-Rank thanks to its ability to wall nearly a lot of physical sweepers.
 
Eh, I'm leaning towards C-Rank for Tangrowth. While his physical bulk is no doubt solid, his special bulk is horrible. This cannt be stressed enough since Tangrowth is 2HKO'd by a negative nature life orb feraligatr's ice beam. The common fire types have no trouble destroying it either. It does deserve to be ranked, but I find C-Rank more appropiate.
Wait, what? Firstly Feraligatr never runs Ice Beam, and secondly, Feraligatr is barely used in UU (some would say for good reason). Having a crappy defense stat on one side of the spectrum isn't too much of an issue, but I think the main reason would have to be that grass is just an innapropriate typing to be tanking physical hits with in UU. With lots of fire type attackers around and heracross, as well as many physical threats being able to run great special sets (kingdra, mew) tangrowth just can't check enough reliably. C seems fine.

Also I'd like to see Empoleon moved up to A. I did propose this earlier in the thread so I won't repeat myself unless there are objections.
 
Hmm, Empoleon for A-rank. With a pretty solid specially defensive typing and stats to back it up, I think empoleon should be the premier specially defensive stealth rocker in UU. The great thing about empoleon is it also can be unpredictable if need be. I find the stray offensive penguin now and again, and there's no reason not to run it. Empoleon is capable of running either role given the correct teambuilding, but the only thing plaguing this guy is the fighting/ground weaknesses. Disposing of those should be simple enough, though. Empoleon deserves a-rank, honestly.

On another note, tangrowth to c-rank seems pretty appropriate. While immense physical bulk is great coupled with regenerator, there are way more things in UU to deal with tangrowth (durant, zapdos, victini, azelf and escavalier just to name a handful) It's hard for me to believe physical bulk is enough to earn tangrowth b-rank, with paltry special defense and weaknesses to pretty common specially attacking types holding it back. There is a reason tangrowth isn't in UU, and that reason also should be putting it in c-rank, with the almost sheer inability to fend off even moderate special attacks.
 

Arkian

this is the state of grace
is a Contributor Alumnus
I think empoleon should be the premier specially defensive stealth rocker in UU.
We have Bronzong for that job.

Although I still agree with you because Empoleon is a little unpredictable capable of going defensive and offensive, and excels at both. It deserves to be higher in both rank and usage. That is all. :)
 
We have Bronzong for that job.

Although I still agree with you because Empoleon is a little unpredictable capable of going defensive and offensive, and excels at both. It deserves to be higher in both rank and usage. That is all. :)
Bronzong isn't good, Empoleon is a lot better.

I agree with Empoleon in A-Rank. Sure, the Specialy defensive set has competitition with other bulky water but it has two big advantage, its typing and the access to SR which only Laggron has. Unlike them, it has a resistance to a lot of typing and is one of the few counter to Kingdra. Also, unlike most bulky water, it is quite powerful and can be a great sweeper with Choice Spec or Agility. So yes, despite the competition with other bulky water, it deserves the A-Rank
 

Laga

Forever Grande
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
In my opinion i would say that yanmega and nidoking should be moved one rank up each, simply because of their diversity.

Nidoking has an amazimg movepool, with awesome power through sheer force and LO. Sometimes you can even catch people off guard with a scarf.

Yanmega works fantastically when you have a spinner on your team. If rocks are gone, life orbed Yanmega is a force to be reckoned with. Even though LO speed boost yanmega is often preferred, specs tinted lens can hit normal "counters" extremely hard.

I just think that these 2 pokemon are some of the best Life Orb users in UU, and therefore I personally think they should get a little more respect.
 
In my opinion i would say that yanmega and nidoking should be moved one rank up each, simply because of their diversity.

Nidoking has an amazimg movepool, with awesome power through sheer force and LO. Sometimes you can even catch people off guard with a scarf.

Yanmega works fantastically when you have a spinner on your team. If rocks are gone, life orbed Yanmega is a force to be reckoned with. Even though LO speed boost yanmega is often preferred, specs tinted lens can hit normal "counters" extremely hard.

I just think that these 2 pokemon are some of the best Life Orb users in UU, and therefore I personally think they should get a little more respect.
No, they don't deserve the A-Rank. Nidoking has competition with Nidoqueen which has a better bulk that allows her to take a lot of hits and isn't really fast.

Yanmega needs support, it is extremly weak to SR and is weak on the special side.

Both of them are great mons but their flaws are problematics and that's why they are in B-Rank and they should stay in
 

Arkian

this is the state of grace
is a Contributor Alumnus
No, they don't deserve the A-Rank. Nidoking has competition with Nidoqueen which has a better bulk that allows her to take a lot of hits and isn't really fast.
Nidoking isn't all that slow and is more powerful than Nidoqueen. He just needs a few faster pokemon out of the way and he can potentially sweep. The boost from both Sheer Force and LO is going to make him a verry powerful force that few can stop thanks to his magnificent coverage.

On that note, I agree with Lag on moving Nidoking to A-Rank because it fits the description well. I also want to propose Weavile down to B-Rank, this is because Weavile is EXTREMELY frail and is hindered by priority users. It is also (in my opinion) outclassed by Bisharp as a Dark-Type SD sweeper because it has access to priority in Sucker Punch to cover its speed issues, the only thing Weavile has over it. This is also the reason that I think Bisharp should be B-Rank.
 
Nidoking isn't all that slow and is more powerful than Nidoqueen. He just needs a few faster pokemon out of the way and he can potentially sweep. The boost from both Sheer Force and LO is going to make him a verry powerful force that few can stop thanks to his magnificent coverage.

On that note, I agree with Lag on moving Nidoking to A-Rank because it fits the description well. I also want to propose Weavile down to B-Rank, this is because Weavile is EXTREMELY frail and is hindered by priority users. It is also (in my opinion) outclassed by Bisharp as a Dark-Type SD sweeper because it has access to priority in Sucker Punch to cover its speed issues, the only thing Weavile has over it. This is also the reason that I think Bisharp should be B-Rank.
Nidoqueen takes much better advantage of her fantastic defensive typing, plus Modest Nidoqueen actually out damages Timid Nidoking.

Also Bisharp for B rank has been brought up many times, and it's been rejected each time for the same reasons: Bisharp is slow, his defensive typing sucks, and it's far too hard to set up with him for far too little payout. Bisharp outclasses Weavile at absolutely nothing.
 
Why is Togekiss in A Tier? Not saying that it's bad I'm just wondering why people consider it to be A Tier material. I personally think it's more a B Tier pokemon. Para-Flinch is not a reliable way to sweep, and its typing is not very good for walling.
 

Arkian

this is the state of grace
is a Contributor Alumnus
Why is Togekiss in A Tier? Not saying that it's bad I'm just wondering why people consider it to be A Tier material. I personally think it's more a B Tier pokemon. Para-Flinch is not a reliable way to sweep, and its typing is not very good for walling.
Togekiss isn't always seen with a ParaFlinching set. Its unpredictability is one of the main reasons for it being A-Rank, it can be either Defensive, Support, or Offensive. Its offensive options are endless, for example it can run either Nasty Plot, a choice set, or even go mixed with the HustleKiss set. Togekiss has few flaws (its typing as a defensive poke) as well, another quality that allows it an A-Rank.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Honestly, Togekiss is good but I wouldn't necessarily say A-tier. It's pretty great and doesn't have many true counters but it can be easily revenge killed. Low A tier or high B tier, I'm not sure.
 
Nidoking isn't all that slow and is more powerful than Nidoqueen. He just needs a few faster pokemon out of the way and he can potentially sweep. The boost from both Sheer Force and LO is going to make him a verry powerful force that few can stop thanks to his magnificent coverage.

On that note, I agree with Lag on moving Nidoking to A-Rank because it fits the description well. I also want to propose Weavile down to B-Rank, this is because Weavile is EXTREMELY frail and is hindered by priority users. It is also (in my opinion) outclassed by Bisharp as a Dark-Type SD sweeper because it has access to priority in Sucker Punch to cover its speed issues, the only thing Weavile has over it. This is also the reason that I think Bisharp should be B-Rank.
I didn't say that Nidoking is slow, just that it isn't really fast. Modest Nidoqueen hits harder than Timid King.

Weavile is great, it shouldn't down to B-tier. Bis haro doesn't deserve the B-Rank, it is slow, has a bad defensive typing and is hard to set-up, Weavile isn't outclass by it and is a lot better.

Why is Togekiss in A Tier? Not saying that it's bad I'm just wondering why people consider it to be A Tier material. I personally think it's more a B Tier pokemon. Para-Flinch is not a reliable way to sweep, and its typing is not very good for walling.
No, it is a solid A-rank. Para-flinch is really great especialy on it because it is hard to kill. It is really bulky and powerful and has an interresting options both offensively and defensively. Togekiss is really unpredictable thanks to it's stats and movepool and that's why it is in A-Rank despite its flaws(SR weakness, other common weaknesses and its middling speed).
 
Having tested Togekiss a lot, since I've been writing the analysis for it, I'd say it deserves B-Rank. Yes, it's a threat to always be aware of, but it can't solidly perform any roles. If I wanted to use a sweeper, something like Raikou, Zapdos, or Victini makes for the better option, since they can typically hit off more than one STAB, and have enough Speed to outpace certain threats. Giving Togekiss a Choice item doesn't help it much, as switching in and out with Stealth Rock on the field will warrant Togekiss a death sentence. If I wanted to use a bulky Pokemon to sponge Physical or Special Attacks while still being able to hit back, I'd rather look into something like Slowking, Cofagrigus, or Snorlax, all of which have better defensive typing and don't carry a crippling Stealth Rock weakness. The same goes for Wishpassing - Umbreon just does it better thanks to its bigger bulk and HP stat. Sure it has access to the ParaFlinch strategy, but there's still a lot of Pokemon that can beat that strategy, such as Guts Heracross (provided it's burnt or poisoned), Ground-types in general, Umbreon, Xatu, and a few others.

Togekiss is a Pokemon that can perform a vast amount of roles. However, it cannot lay claim to the best Pokemon to perform said roles in the UU tier. If you want a sweeper, use something faster and as strong / stronger. If you want a tank-like Pokemon, use something with better typing and better defensive stats. Togekiss is B-Rank.
 
I would like to propose some discussion on Qwilfish (sorry if this has already been done... I don't want to look through 15 pages of posts). Qwilfish is B-rank material. It has a unique role on offensive teams as a solid switch-in for both physical fire and fighting-types, which are obnoxiously common and extremely dangerous threats for offensive teams. With intimidate, it has become an extremely strong pivot for teams that otherwise have extremely few walls, and even provides spikes support. With some speed EVs, it can even prevent from becoming setup bait for Roserade by running taunt. For example, the set

Qwilfish @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spd
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Spikes

can be used to spread paralysis, and almost always gets numerous turns of free spikes, assuming the opponent has a fighting type, water type, or physical fire type. Basically, it can find an opportunity to be useful against pretty much all teams. The pressure it provides from spikes and the utility from taunt and thunder wave are incredibly useful for many teams.
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I dropped Heracross down to A-tier. It should apparent to everyone by now that its not an S-tier threat. (I think the majority of BW UU players can attest to that).

A couple of things i'm considering in the future:
-Moving Cofagrigus to S-tier
-Moving Raikou from S-tier down to A-tier

I asked this before, but what are your thoughts on this?

@Dropping Togekiss to B-tier:
I can't justify doing this right now. Togekiss is so good in BW UU right, in fact i'd argue that its SR weakness is the reason why it doesn't eat BW UU alive right now. It's just too much of a threat to be B-tier(Sturdy, versatile and strong).

I also went ahead and added Golurk & Tangrowth to C-tier. Feel free to argue if they should be placed higher or lower.
 
I agree with Heracross in A-Rank, it isn't as great as it was before.

I also agree with Cofagrigus in S-Rank, it is one of the best physical wall in UU, it is like a physical Snorlax and the OTR is also great.


C-Rank is fine for Tangrowth and Golurk, they have both a niche.

However, I can't agree with Raikou being in A-rank. It is one of the best sweepers in the metagame. It has really few counters and is hard to revenge kill with Substitute.
 
Raikou being A rank??? PK has anyone else voiced that opinion? If anything, zapdos is worse, since raikou is a sweeper in addition to a wallbreaker. And not SR weak/no access to boosting moves/unable to leverage voltswitch. Raikou is the premier late game sweeper as the only things that can revenge it are scarved pokemon since ground pokemon are all slower than it. Substitute helps with this, and will make flygon rely on u-turn. Also, wit risk management and scarves locking a pokemon into one move, it's easy for raikou to maneuver around it (i.e strong walls, not too much prediction involved). The only things that can stop it are bulky pokemon like swampert/snorlax, but good players should use raikou after wearing these walls down.

Also Togekiss is solid A rank because of nasty plot, which can destroy things like SpD swampert and snorlax, to the point where raikou/RD kingdra can come in.
 
I would have to support the idea of moving cofagrigus to S tier... It is incredible strong, especially against the extremely common hyper-offensive to semi-balanced teams which are so weak to it. It's bulk and typing makes it serve an important role other than sweeper, as it can check/counter the numerous fighting types. Also, its utility with trick room is immense, as it's bulk allows it to survive most sweepers' hits, and thereby stop would-be sweeps. Basically, it can sweep, can wall, and has a "tailwind" in Trick Room.

On the topic of Raikou, it should be kept in S tier in my opinion, as it has such a strong ability to clean up late game (provided the team got entries down and/or weakened its checks). It's still one of the best Pokemon to focus a team around, and can get past most of it checks with just entry hazards (Swampert o.o).
 
Raikou being A rank??? PK has anyone else voiced that opinion? If anything, zapdos is worse, since raikou is a sweeper in addition to a wallbreaker. And not SR weak/no access to boosting moves/unable to leverage voltswitch. Raikou is the premier late game sweeper as the only things that can revenge it are scarved pokemon since ground pokemon are all slower than it. Substitute helps with this, and will make flygon rely on u-turn. Also, wit risk management and scarves locking a pokemon into one move, it's easy for raikou to maneuver around it (i.e strong walls, not too much prediction involved). The only things that can stop it are bulky pokemon like swampert/snorlax, but good players should use raikou after wearing these walls down.

Also Togekiss is solid A rank because of nasty plot, which can destroy things like SpD swampert and snorlax, to the point where raikou/RD kingdra can come in.
Zapdos is generaly better than Raikou. It is more versatile, it can run both offensive and defensive sets, it has also some moves that Raikou doesn't have such as Roost, Heat Wave and Agility. But I agree that Raikou shouldn't down to A-rank because it has few counters and is hard to revenge kill because of its bulk, Calm Mind and Substitute.

I agree that Cofagrigus should be in S-rank. It is excellent both offensively and defensively. The OTR is a really great sweeper, it can set-up TR and Nasty Plot really easily and can do then a sweep because most teams are weak to Cofagrigus. Defensively, it is one of the best physical staller, it checks or counters nearly all physical sweepers, has WoW to cripple them, has Mummy which is useful against sweepers that rely on their abilities like Mienshao, Sharpedo, Heracross and Azumarill, has haze to avoid a sweep and isn't a set-up fodder like Dusclops. It is the best ghost in the tier and one of the best Mons in the metagame.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Poor Hera. :( But eh, it's easily prepared for now, and Mienshao is the Top Fighting-type of UU. Sorry Hera, but Mienshao is da baws here. (hell, Mienshao should be the #1 most used Poke in UU right now)

Anyways, supporting Cofagrigus for S-Rank simply because it's the quintessential Ghost-type of UU. It can fulfill numerous roles in one set. Cofagrigus is the ultimate spinblocker; basically if you're running a Spiker, like Roserade, Froslass, or Qwilfish, Cofagrigus is an amazing teammate to ensure that Blastoise or Claydol of theirs doesn't get rid of your hazards. Not only that, but it's a hard counter to some Fighting-types such as Mienshao (which being able to make this thing useless is amazing), as well as Heracross along with some others. Mummy is a wonderful ability, neutering some great abilities such as Mienshao's Regenerator, Krookodile/Heracross's Moxie, Azumarill's Huge Power, and more, which is another plus. This also makes Cofagrigus a strong wall, the defensive set is great for stall, so if you need a spinblocker/wall for a stall team, this is it. OTR set, the common claim to fame of Mr. Cofag, is also a strong sweeper, and with the Spikes support that Cofag will make sure never gets off the field, TR+NP is vicious and will wreck anything that doesn't have great special bulk. Two-turn setup is kinda ball, but Cofag can definitely handle it. Trick Room is also a great assistance to some vicious Pokemon such as Druddigon, Escavalier, and Rhyperior, all of whom can wreck shit in there. Overall, Cofagrigus is very reliable and versatile, and I've probably used this thing over any Ghost-type in UU 'case it's so reliable. Definitely an S-Rank Pokemon.

I strongly disagree with Raikou being moved to A-Rank. If you don't know already, here's the thing: Raikou is the pinnacle of special sweeping. SubCM is so deadly, that if you don't prepare for it: You're going down. Raikou has the bulk, power, and speed to just outright sweep everything after some boosts. Thunderbolt+HP coverage is nothing to be trifled with. It's one of the best late game cleaners around. Keep it in S-Rank.

On another note, we should add Sigilyph to the list somewhere. Its Cosmic Power set is capable of being a bitch to face, and its Magic Guard is nice to prevent passive damage. It can take on Fighters and cripple shit with burns, and after some boosts, it can be really powerful. It is prone to crits along with Haze/Whirlwind isn't an immediate threat either. It can also go for offensive CM and hit rather hard with usable coverage. That said, it does have an awkward Speed tier and packs some exploitable weaknesses, but for now I think C-Rank should be a good start for our fellow ancient bird thingie.
 
Poor Hera. :( But eh, it's easily prepared for now, and Mienshao is the Top Fighting-type of UU. Sorry Hera, but Mienshao is da baws here. (hell, Mienshao should be the #1 most used Poke in UU right now)

Anyways, supporting Cofagrigus for S-Rank simply because it's the quintessential Ghost-type of UU. It can fulfill numerous roles in one set. Cofagrigus is the ultimate spinblocker; basically if you're running a Spiker, like Roserade, Froslass, or Qwilfish, Cofagrigus is an amazing teammate to ensure that Blastoise or Claydol of theirs doesn't get rid of your hazards. Not only that, but it's a hard counter to some Fighting-types such as Mienshao (which being able to make this thing useless is amazing), as well as Heracross along with some others. Mummy is a wonderful ability, neutering some great abilities such as Mienshao's Regenerator, Krookodile/Heracross's Moxie, Azumarill's Huge Power, and more, which is another plus. This also makes Cofagrigus a strong wall, the defensive set is great for stall, so if you need a spinblocker/wall for a stall team, this is it. OTR set, the common claim to fame of Mr. Cofag, is also a strong sweeper, and with the Spikes support that Cofag will make sure never gets off the field, TR+NP is vicious and will wreck anything that doesn't have great special bulk. Two-turn setup is kinda ball, but Cofag can definitely handle it. Trick Room is also a great assistance to some vicious Pokemon such as Druddigon, Escavalier, and Rhyperior, all of whom can wreck shit in there. Overall, Cofagrigus is very reliable and versatile, and I've probably used this thing over any Ghost-type in UU 'case it's so reliable. Definitely an S-Rank Pokemon.

I strongly disagree with Raikou being moved to A-Rank. If you don't know already, here's the thing: Raikou is the pinnacle of special sweeping. SubCM is so deadly, that if you don't prepare for it: You're going down. Raikou has the bulk, power, and speed to just outright sweep everything after some boosts. Thunderbolt+HP coverage is nothing to be trifled with. It's one of the best late game cleaners around. Keep it in S-Rank.

On another note, we should add Sigilyph to the list somewhere. Its Cosmic Power set is capable of being a bitch to face, and its Magic Guard is nice to prevent passive damage. It can take on Fighters and cripple shit with burns, and after some boosts, it can be really powerful. It is prone to crits along with Haze/Whirlwind isn't an immediate threat either. It can also go for offensive CM and hit rather hard with usable coverage. That said, it does have an awkward Speed tier and packs some exploitable weaknesses, but for now I think C-Rank should be a good start for our fellow ancient bird thingie.
I agree that Sigilyph should be added to C-Rank because it has a niche. It is really hard to kill after boosts of Cosmic Power and can do great damages with Stored Power after boosts despite its flaws.

I think that Piloswine should be add to C-rank. It has a niche in being a Tank, it is quite powerful, has a great offensive typing and is really bulky. It also has access to SR and is a nice counter to Raikou and Zapdos
 

reachzero

the pastor of disaster
is a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Togekiss is incredibly, amazingly good as long as you have a teammate that can deal with Zapdos and Raikou, which really you need anyway. It belongs in A-rank. My big question is why Tornadus is A-rank; it is hard-countered by Zapdos, Stealth Rock weak, and has no recovery. It has relatively few opportunities to switch in safely. In other words, it is a pretty medicore Pokemon, in my opinion C-rank at best.
 
Togekiss is incredibly, amazingly good as long as you have a teammate that can deal with Zapdos and Raikou, which really you need anyway. It belongs in A-rank. My big question is why Tornadus is A-rank; it is hard-countered by Zapdos, Stealth Rock weak, and has no recovery. It has relatively few opportunities to switch in safely. In other words, it is a pretty medicore Pokemon, in my opinion C-rank at best.

You can honestly tornadus mediocre? Sure it's frail and weak to rocks, but that doesn't make it bad. With some of the best offensive stats in the tier at 101/121/108 if memort serves, tornadus is an incredibly offensive powerhouse. Slap a choice specs or life orb, and hurricane 2HKO's almost everything in the tier barring resistances. That is a feat in itself. Not only an extremely potent special attacker, but tornadus can also go physical with bulk up/acrobatics or even supportive with prankster rain dance, easily making leeway for kingdra, raikou, etc. With these great options all around, it's very hard to call tornadus mediocre. Being hard countered by a pokemon or two is nothing to make a pokemon mediocre. Hell, heracross is stopped by gligar and cofagrigus, but no one calls it mediocre
 
You can honestly tornadus mediocre? Sure it's frail and weak to rocks, but that doesn't make it bad. With some of the best offensive stats in the tier at 101/121/108 if memort serves, tornadus is an incredibly offensive powerhouse. Slap a choice specs or life orb, and hurricane 2HKO's almost everything in the tier barring resistances. That is a feat in itself. Not only an extremely potent special attacker, but tornadus can also go physical with bulk up/acrobatics or even supportive with prankster rain dance, easily making leeway for kingdra, raikou, etc. With these great options all around, it's very hard to call tornadus mediocre. Being hard countered by a pokemon or two is nothing to make a pokemon mediocre. Hell, heracross is stopped by gligar and cofagrigus, but no one calls it mediocre
Just thought I'd mention that Tornadus' offensive stats are actually 115/125/111. But yeah, Tornadus can really give teams problems. It's just a shame he's so frail and easily revenge killed, plus he really needs rain to operate at his full potential. I'd be fine with either A or B rank for him.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top