Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

[Unoriginal Name]

You don't learn to play Pokemon yourself, Pokemon teaches you how to learn it. ~Name lost to history (aka I can't remember)

Why that quote? It's simple: Kyurem-B is the definition of a Pokemon that is predictable, has many relative equivalents in the meta and looks much better as a theorymon; it shares the same fate as Flareon in poor defensive typing, a bad movepool for its stats and being relatively "outclassed" in most roles you would logically put it in. A blistering Attack stat such as his looks amazing; with Ice and Dragon STABs, it has neutral coverage on many things (though Steels are the bane of his existence regardless). His movepool and defensive typing is lackluster, however; SR weakness, resistances to types such as Water (resists Ice that they carry anyway and most pack a neutral Ice move), Grass (Ice kills them anyway) and Electric (meh typing in this meta, with EQs everywhere) and a neutrality against Ice (the only useful defensive perk Ice typing gave it) plus a lack of many notable Physical Ice STABs; not to say he doesn't have enough, however, but still.

However, this does not mean Kyurem-B is unworthy of A-Rank. Let's look at A-Rank's description:

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

Bolded the important bits. Sure, he can't exactly get past Steels without a good Fire-type attack (which, again, he lacks a viable Physical variation of such), but you have teammates for a reason. Stealth Rocks? Starmie and Ferrothorn/Forretress are actually decent partners to Kyurem-B. Similarly to Mamoswine, he can take out large parts of the tier; notably, other Dragons, Sand teams and every Venusaur in existence. He may be a low A-Rank, but he deserves A-Rank alright. His Outrage just wrecks everything, especially non-Steels with low Physical Defense (what Steel has low Defense? Excadrill? Anyway...), and his Ice STAB's aren't too shabby either. I say, though he may look much better as a theorymon, he's worth a good try in this meta and should always be considered when building a team, both as a teammate and a threat.

Beating a KB requires experience in this meta and a knowledge of the mon, hence my quote at the beginning. You can only learn to play around this guy when he tries to stop you from doing so. His limited movepool means the same moves are generally ran; however, don't let this fool you into thinking clever prediction can always kill him. His Speed can hold the Frost Dragon back, but he does have that okay bulk to make up for it somewhat. Kyurem-B is not perfect, but he's a great mon, one that you have to watch out for- or use yourself.

tl;dr: A small movepool and somewhat predictable and slow, yes, but great offensive typing makes up for this, plus DAT ATTACK. Kyurem-B shouldn't be Rank B! Let him stay where he belongs, wrecking in Rank A!

 

[Hemp Man]

Water (resists Ice that they carry anyway and most pack a neutral Ice move)

Actually I find him very good at checking Water Pokemon due to his massive bulk and access to SE Fusion Bolt.

 

[Unoriginal Name]

Actually I find him very good at checking Water Pokemon due to his massive bulk and access to SE Fusion Bolt.

Problem is, Fusion Bolt comes off of his lowish (lower, at least) Special Attack stat, using up a few EVs that he would rather invest in Attack in Physical sets. However, I've done minimal Mixed Kyurem (we need a catchy name for that, like MixMence- MixRum? KyuMix-B?) testing myself, so I'll take your word for it.

All the more reason to keep him in A Rank regardless.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Problem is, Fusion Bolt comes off of his lowish (lower, at least) Special Attack stat, using up a few EVs that he would rather invest in Attack in Physical sets. However, I've done minimal Mixed Kyurem (we need a catchy name for that, like MixMence- MixRum? KyuMix-B?) testing myself, so I'll take your word for it.

All the more reason to keep him in A Rank regardless.

Fusion Bolt is physical
derp

 

[Unoriginal Name]

Fusion Bolt is physical
derp

Oh, duh.
No idea why I thought it was Special there for a second.

...

I'm tired. I need to sleep.

 

[TrippingRocks]

The rest of your post is essentially "Kyu-B can only run physical sets and it sucks against anything that checks them". No, it can do much more than that as my and the other posts show.
This mentality is the result of the complete joke Kyu-B's suspect test was, where everyone and their mom slapped CB Kyu-B even in teams that didn't benefit from it and acted like being checked by a steel type after clicking Outrage was a problem only Kyu-B had.

Uh.. no. Read my posts again. I did not say that Kyurem-B can only run physical sets. In fact, I suggested that it would be better if he used a mixed set as his physical movepool lacks complete coverage.

The point I was trying to get across is that an all physical-attacking Kyurem-B is not his best set. He has absolutely no physical attack to hit steel-types for super-effective damage. If he's not locked into Outrage, his best option against steel types would be fusion bolt, which only does a bit more damage than a STAB and resisted Outrage.

If you're going to use Kyurem-B, go for a mixed set.

 

[LilOu]

Tabuu, Kyurem B only has 10 base special attack less than normal Kyurem. Yeah, the black version has a huge base attack, but it has very useful special attacking options. If you check Kyurem-B's analysis, ALL its sets have at least 1 special attack. Example: Ice Beam, Hidden Power, Earth Power and Draco Meteor. Even the Choice Band set runs Ice Beam!

 

[TrippingRocks]

"The point I was trying to get across is that an all physical-attacking Kyurem-B is not his best set"
You. are seriously missing the point here.

No, I don't think I'm missing the point. I've already mentioned this before, but I get that he has a huge attack stat. A huge attack stat is great and all, but coverage would make it even better. He doesn't have the physical coverage for it. That's why he uses his specially based attacks to patch it up.

It's Base 170 Attack is huge. No other OU Pokemon out there is capable of matching that kind of Power. Use a mixed set? Kyurem is simply a better choice thanks to that solid 130/130 Offense. Kyurem-B is meant to be a physical monster. Of course Outrage is tanked by Steel Types what kind of argument was that? Are you not going to run Close Combat Terrakion anymore because Jellicent is immune to it?

I'm pretty sure a Kyurem-B with 170/120 offense is better than a normal Kyurem's 130/130 offense. Sure, Kyurem-B hits a bit softer on the special side, but he also hits a lot harder on the physical side. Plus he gets Fusion bolt, which is certainly nice for physical coverage.
Terrakion runs close combat AND stone edge. It gives him nearly perfect coverage, allowing him to hit almost anything for STAB and neutral damage. His attack stat may not be as high as Kyurem-B, but his physical coverage is much better, allowing him to deal with steel types better.
My argument isn't that Steel types can tank an outrage. My argument is that Kyurem-B has NOTHING to hit them for super-effective damage. His best move against steel types would be fusion bolt, which does not receive STAB.

I'm arguing that Kyurem-B doesn't have the physical coverage to pull an all-out physical set. I have no idea where you brought up the analogy of the Terrakion and Jellicent. Jellicent is certainly immune to one of Terrakion's STAB moves, but Terrakion has another STAB move called Stone Edge.

Kyurem-B is an amazing wallbreaker but seriously outshines all the other Dragons as a Substitute abusing Dragon. With a Substitute in place, Kyurem can scout out the opposing Steel Type switch in and respond accordingly with his great movepool.

So you're advocating for a mixed set, right? Because his physical movepool ain't that great. Earth Power would certainly be a great move to use against steel types, but it's a specially based move. Therefore, Kyurem-B is best used with a mixed set, not a physical set.

 

[TrippingRocks]

LOL OMG. I can't believe how self-contradictory I sounded my bad.
Like I said earlier:
"I think what the problem here is, how you would go about defining mixed set. Yes CB Kyurem-B has Ice Beam, but does that really make him mixed?"

I consider it a mixed set if you run at least 1 physical-based attacking move and 1 special-based attacking move. You only have 4 move slots, so each move really defines the type of set you're using. Just having 1 physical and 1 special attacking move takes up half of your move slots. If you carry both of them, it's considered a mixed set.

 

[HabibsHotDogs]

So what was the verdict on gastrodon?

Here is another replay to show its utility in the current meta, another replay with breloom btw.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13275969

(My celebi is defensive with CM + Baton pass)

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13282801

^ That team had a ceebi


Seriously you can't compare Gastrodon to any of the pokemon in C rank.. really.. Roserade is approximately as influential as Gastrodon? (and thats probably the next best pokemon in C rank). Gastrodon is a clear B rank in my opinion because it checks so many pokemon!

Here is a list of the top 30 pokemon and how Gastro handles each:

This assumes Gastro is using a 252/252+/4 spread.

Hide

Bold Black - Most sets are hard walled
Italic Black - Most sets can be checked
No Format - Neutral can only check certain times/sets but at other times cannot
Bold Red - Force Gastro out/Hard counter
Italic Red - Usually force Gastro out

1. Scizor
2. Politoed
3. Ferrothorn
4. Dragonite
5. Tyranitar
6. Heatran
7. Jirachi
8. Breloom
9. Rotom-W
10. Latios
11. Terrakion
12. Gengar
13. Starmie
14. Garchomp
15. Forretress
16. Keldeo
17. Gliscor
18. Ninetales
19. Salamence
20. Alakazam
21. Tentacruel
22. Landorus-T
23. Volcarona
24. Mamoswine
25. Espeon
26. Jellicent
27. Skarmory
28. Thundurus-T
29. Infernape
30. Landorus-I

Pretty Impressive if you ask me!

 

[Magcargo]

I agree with moving gastrodon up. Its a full stop to many pokemon like thundorus-t and infernape unless they carry grass knot.

Also, any thoughts of moving Haxorus up to A-Rank? Haxorus has a powerful outrage, can boost its speed with DD and has great coverage with Low kick, outrage and Earthquake. While he faces competition with his breathern, he can differentiate himself with the combination of great coverage, high attack, and two setup moves in the form of Dragon dance and Swords Dance. He can 2HKO forretress with a fighting gem boosted Superpower after an SD. His biggest draw is his SR neutrality, which is a huge boon over other DD sweepers.

 

[kakuna]

Now back to Kyurem-B. A principal argument used is that kyurem-b is neutral to ice shard and is only weak to bullet punch and mach punch. Well the only ice shard user is mamoswine, who is good, but not great. The top two pokemon in OU are jirachi and scizor in usage statistics that are based off of good players. Scizor can bullet punch and jirachi can hit it with an iron head, not to mention a ton of jirachis are scarfed. Dragonite can fire punch scizor to oblivion and it can DD past any non scarf jirachis, in which case hax is a big factor in deciding who comes out on top. Politoed and tyranitar come next in usage. Kyurem-B does better than some dragons against toed. It isn't weak to ice beam but it gains a nasty weakness to focus blast at the same time. No physical dragons have any business around tyranitar, except for physically defensive rock tar. If that is the case kyurem dies to a stone edge which dragonite could have taken with multiscale. Next is breloom. Kyurem-B is worst out of dragons versus breloom. Terrakion next- seeing my point? If kyurem isn't banded then it is just susceptible to slower threats, and if it runs choice band it gets revenge killed while locked into outrage. It can only really set up subs against bulky waters, and rotom will volt switch or wisp on the switch in so really only politoed. And then sometimes politoed is scarfed and focus blasts you to low enough that you can't sub and then you die to rocks switch in next time. Even if you do set up a sub there is usually a ferrothorn or scizor waiting to kill you with gyro ball and bullet punch respectively. Out of the top 10 kyurem is mauled by 6, is iffy against 3 and can only destroy one, rotom-w.

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 507-601 (111.92 - 132.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO
what are you smoking?


Oh and how does it fare against mamoswine, must be great because it can take an ice shard!... If it isn't banded mamoswine lives and rocks kyurem with a superpower. If you are banded you had better watch out being locked in on outrage in case mamoswine is sash and kills you with endeavor and ice shard. Yes there are mindgames with substitute and such, but being neutral to ice shard doesn't save kyurem.

And gastrodon should move up to B. Yes the same tier kyurem should be in but lower in the tier. Gastrodon is a lot like rotom-w but it has more bulk and recover so it can actually beat hydreigon or non grass knot latios. No it is not as good as Rotom-w because it is very slow and takes spikes damage and doesn't resist hurricane and doesn't have will-o-wisp but it does have some pros over rotom, expecially on more balanced teams. And putting it in the same tier as hitmontop and sandslash is simply wrong.

Haxorus is not deserving of A rank because of how common priority is and how badly he takes it. Scizor can come in and bullet punch for heavy damage. Mamoswine has ice shard as well. It is kind of a slower salamence without fire blast, the attack increase isn't neccesary for dragons, and salamence fares better against all steels except for air balloon heatran which is something. The base speed means that scarf jirachi/salamence can always beat you. Ability to KO rotom-w without locking into outrage, swords dance, ability to take an ice shard if very healthy, ability to kill ferrothorn in rain and good physical water move count for something, but only enough for B rank. In summary it isn't fast enough or bulky enough to really sweep with dragon dance or swords dance. It's wallbreaking capabilities are decent, but if it runs fight gem everything else is weaksauce. If only it got fire punch >.<.

 

[Magcargo]

Now back to Kyurem-B. A principal argument used is that kyurem-b is neutral to ice shard and is only weak to bullet punch and mach punch. Well the only ice shard user is mamoswine, who is good, but not great. The top two pokemon in OU are jirachi and scizor in usage statistics that are based off of good players. Scizor can bullet punch and jirachi can hit it with an iron head, not to mention a ton of jirachis are scarfed. Dragonite can fire punch scizor to oblivion and it can DD past any non scarf jirachis, in which case hax is a big factor in deciding who comes out on top. Politoed and tyranitar come next in usage. Kyurem-B does better than some dragons against toed. It isn't weak to ice beam but it gains a nasty weakness to focus blast at the same time. No physical dragons have any business around tyranitar, except for physically defensive rock tar. If that is the case kyurem dies to a stone edge which dragonite could have taken with multiscale. Next is breloom. Kyurem-B is worst out of dragons versus breloom. Terrakion next- seeing my point? If kyurem isn't banded then it is just susceptible to slower threats, and if it runs choice band it gets revenge killed while locked into outrage. It can only really set up subs against bulky waters, and rotom will volt switch or wisp on the switch in so really only politoed. And then sometimes politoed is scarfed and focus blasts you to low enough that you can't sub and then you die to rocks switch in next time. Even if you do set up a sub there is usually a ferrothorn or scizor waiting to kill you with gyro ball and bullet punch respectively. Out of the top 10 kyurem is mauled by 6, is iffy against 3 and can only destroy one, rotom-w.

Oh and how does it fare against mamoswine, must be great because it can take an ice shard!... If it isn't banded mamoswine lives and rocks kyurem with a superpower. If you are banded you had better watch out being locked in on outrage in case mamoswine is sash and kills you with endeavor and ice shard. Yes there are mindgames with substitute and such, but being neutral to ice shard doesn't save kyurem.

And gastrodon should move up to B. Yes the same tier kyurem should be in but lower in the tier. Gastrodon is a lot like rotom-w but it has more bulk and recover so it can actually beat hydreigon or non grass knot latios. No it is not as good as Rotom-w because it is very slow and takes spikes damage and doesn't resist hurricane and doesn't have will-o-wisp but it does have some pros over rotom, expecially on more balanced teams. And putting it in the same tier as hitmontop and sandslash is simply wrong.

You are really underestimating kyurem-b's bulk. Kyurem-B can live a CB scizor's bullet punch AFTER SR with a bit of defensive investment. LO Terrakion also fails to OHKO it with CC without SR, meaning that LO Mamoswine falls into the same fate. Kyurem-B has many advantages that make him A-Rank. First, he has no counters. Scizor and ferrothorn are roasted by HP fire, Rotom-w, terrakion and jirachi are demolished by earth power, tyranitar hates focus blast and so on. He can run many defensive sets thanks to his amazing defenses and sky high attack. The HC + Dragon tail set can demolish teams by itself and can tank many hits. Kyurem-b can even run special sets with fusion bolt to destroy the metagame with its coverage. Even though Kyurem-b has many weaknesses, he is a great pokemon overall thanks to his great mixed bulk and attacking stats.

 

[MewTheDestroyer]

Honestly speaking, Dragonite and Salamence could go up to S rank. While they may both be weak to rocks, rocks obviously won't always be up. Now, Dragonite has this lovely ability named Multiscale. Everyone should know what Multiscale does by this point in time. Now, Dragonite has many different viable sets as well. Sets include: parashuffler, banded, dragon dance, tank, and tank [rain]. Now, what if I led with my Dragonite, and decided to go for a Dragon Dance? Dragonite not only has a massive attack stat already, but plus one is scary. Parashuffler, the most annoying set ever. Behind a sub, Dragonite can easily Dragon Tail opponents in and out, Paralyze them, and roost off any damage. Banded, it hurts.

Salamence: Banned to Ubers in D/P/P for a good reason, it was too strong for the meta. It has a very large movepool and hits like a truck. Salamence can run Scarf, Dragon Dance, or even Wish Support. But, if Salamence weren't overpowered enough, it gained Moxie in the DW, making this threat even more of a threat.

 

[Lavos]

jumping in here to note that i actually often find sub's a waste on kyurem-b, since it has such incredibly bulk (with admittedly subpar defensive typing) and great potential to stay alive in general. sub is often used to ease prediction, i.e. i know he's switching here but i don't know what to, so i'll sub and then attack next turn based on his switch, but people often forget it cuts 25% of hp and that hp can make a huge difference, especially on kyurem-b. for example, before a sub, standard bulky kyu-b can live non-life orb terrakion's close combat and cb scizor's bullet punch. after sub, it can't live either. i prefer to sacrifice an easier prediction for 25% of my hp, and either run a 3 attacks + roost set, or simply 4 attacks. it's often really convenient to double up on outrage and dragon claw, since you're often in situations where one is far better than the other (and sometimes even the difference between a win and a loss), and roost is always nice for those obvious switches where you know you can get some health back.

overall i definitely support kyurem-b to stay in a-rank where it belongs

@mewthedestroyer, if you want to read the rationale for why both dragonite and salamence weren't bumped up to s-rank only a few weeks ago, go back maybe 5 pages and look for pk gaming's post on the subject

 

[False Sense]

Uhh... Salamence for B-Rank...? What's your reasoning behind that? Personally, I can see why people would support it for S-Rank, because of it's sheer destructive potential and it's near un-counterability. It doesn't really have any flaws apart from it's Stealth Rock weakness, but it can still function fine regardless. I don't know if I'd go quite as far to say S-Rank, but it's definitely not B-Rank.

 

[Magcargo]

on the fence about Mence and S-Rank[/B].

Salamence would most likely fit into B-rank then A tbh. Having said that, suggesting mence for S-rank is a bit absurd.

I disagree with both of you. Salamence is perfectly fine in A-Rank. Salamence is a versatile mon and has no counters, but it is easily revenge killed by scizor, mamoswine and a myraid of CS users. Even though it has moxie, salamence can't use it well because of its average speed. B-Rank is too low, however, since salamence is a great cleaner and has great mixed attacking stats. Salamence also can dispatch physical wall with Hydro pump and Fire blast. Even though it faces competition with dragonite, each fulfill different roles, so niether really outclasses the other. In all honesty, dragonite and salamence are equal in terms of viability and should stay in A-Rank

 

[Lavos]

salamence sits right around middle to low a-rank in my opinion. we all know it's immensely powerful and the scarf/dd sets are capable of sweeping through teams at a moment's notice, i get it. however, its switch-in opportunities are extremely limited. with rocks up, it's 2hkod by simple stuff like keldeo's rain-boosted surf and terrakion's close combat that you would honestly expect a dragon/flying dual type to survive with ease. however, that's not always the case. the sheer fraility of salamence in general prevents it from doing a lot in most battles it's in. often you have to spend a lot of time painstakingly wearing down potential checks and counters before finally going in for the kill. priority's also a pain. choice band scizor's bullet punch does well over 50%, ice shard from anything not named donphan ohkos, and even breloom's lo mach punch, which mence resists, is doing a solid 30%. salamence's decidedly mediocre speed also hinders it greatly from pulling off a full sweep, since nowadays the average base speed for a choice scarfer is 108 or above. the scarf set has definitely seen better days. right now i actually think the best set is dd yache, since you can set up a dd as they try to sac something, then get another one as they bring keldeo in to revenge with hp ice. it's also very satisfying to pull off. but yeah, enough rambling. salamence is solid a-rank however you care to look at it.

 

[Lavos]

i know why people run sub, i'm simply explaining why i prefer roost/4 attacks.

 

[Magcargo]

I propose making two nominations
Magneton being added to D-Rank
Conkeldurr moving up to Low B-Rank from C-Rank
For Magneton, I'm going to use the same agruement I made awhile back.

Anyway, I would like to nominate magneton for D-Rank. While it is often labeled outclassed because of magnezone, its higher speed and ability to use the eviolite make it viable. Base 70 speed allows it to outspeed several pokemon if it uses a choice scarf. This includes CS magnezone, starmie, CS scizor, CS tyranitar and alakazam. Magneton can also opt to use the eviolite to increase its average defenses to passable levels and setup charge beams on weak walls. It has the same flaws as magnezone and then some, but is still worthy enough to be a D-Rank pokemon.

Conkeldurr deserves to be B-Rank IMO. Conkeldurr has many things going for it. A base 140 attack stat means that its going to hard no matter what. STAB Drain punch and Ice punch get good coverage, missing out only on jellicent. Even though it has low Special defense, its base 105 HP allows it to tank quite a few hits. Thanks to mach punch, he can check terrakion Mamoswine ETC, but they must be weakened. Finally, Conkeldurr's low base 45 speed can become an advantage under trickroom. I know that conkeldurr has a few flaws, but with proper team support, he can become a monster.

 

[Lavos]

I was wondering, is there a particular reason why Mamoswine hasn't been promoted to A rank or if it will? There was an overwhelming majority (I think everyone) that backed him to go A rank because he is simply so great at what he does and how Mamo wrecks so many teams with those godly STABs. Maybe it just hasn't been updated, which in that case this comment should be ignored.

i'm really on the fence about mamo. on one hand, it completely wrecks standard sun teams, including my own. out of 6 pokemon, you have at best one partially safe switch in, but that's air balloon heatran, which if mamo's jolly it just outspeeds and ohkos anyways. really sucks to try to deal with it, that's how i almost lost quarterfinals of friday's tour. he's also really good vs weatherless, again, since most weatherless teams lack a risk-free switch-in to mamoswine it can really put the hurt on teams if it predicts correctly. however, mamo often finds itself as dead weight against any defensively oriented team packing skarmory, forretress, or the like, and also struggles against most rain offense, which has several means to scare it out (terrak, keldeo, poli, sciz, loom, etc.) and doesn't have trouble switching in with a bit of prediction. i dunno really. if you guys want to move it up to a-rank that's fine by me but i'm not going to advocate either side of the argument.

 

[Poplolita]

Vaporeon should be rank B

After watching this, I think vaporeon should be in rank B... It is so good in the right hand.
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13412082

 

[HabibsHotDogs]

I can't see mamo as A rank because Mamo has traditionally been a response to other pokemon. It came into OU with the influx of ice shard prone threats and it would leave OU were they not here. It can check bolt beam rather nicely but is weak to quite a lot of moves, it threatens to ko a lot of the meta, but even simple/unexpected things like minor speed invested celebi/tentacruel or physically defensive celebi can easily deal with it.

 

[Gary]

I propose making two nominations
Magneton being added to D-Rank
Conkeldurr moving up to Low B-Rank from C-Rank
For Magneton, I'm going to use the same agruement I made awhile back.

Conkeldurr deserves to be B-Rank IMO. Conkeldurr has many things going for it. A base 140 attack stat means that its going to hard no matter what. STAB Drain punch and Ice punch get good coverage, missing out only on jellicent. Even though it has low Special defense, its base 105 HP allows it to tank quite a few hits. Thanks to mach punch, he can check terrakion Mamoswine ETC, but they must be weakened. Finally, Conkeldurr's low base 45 speed can become an advantage under trickroom. I know that conkeldurr has a few flaws, but with proper team support, he can become a monster.

I definitely support Magneton for D-Rank. He has a niche over Magnezone as a Choice Scarfer who can actually revenge kill certain things, such as +1 Gyarados and Dragonite. Magnezone is just too damn slow, and really only finds itself trapping and breaking wall with Choice Specs. Magneton is also pretty damn bulky with Eviolite, and can run a nasty Charge Beam set that's actually really hard to handle after a few boosts. Even an Adamant +1 Fire Punch from a Dragonite fails to KO it, which is pretty impressive. Since it's no longer paper thin, it's bulk can also keep its Sub from breaking even from neutral attacks. All in all, Magneton has enough of a niche over Magnezone that it as LEAST deserves D-Rank, maybe even low C-Rank.

Conkeldurr on the other hand.... I'm not so sure. Conk is good, really good, but he's hard to use. He's so damn slow, and in this powerful meta game Speed means a lot if you want to be a successful offensive team member. Although Mach Punch makes up for his speed a little, unlike Breloom it's not boosted by Technician, and it always forces him to run Iron Fist if he wants it be good. Speaking of Iron Fist, it's a great ability that makes his Focus Punch something to fear, as well as also powering up his Drain Punch, Mach Punch, and Ice Punch. Still, Conkeldurr always seems to want to have Guts since it makes him a reliable switch in to status moves while making him a force to be reckoned with. Being so slow leaves him wide open to powerful attacks such as Choice Specs Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, and Psyshock, while also combining with possible recoil from Toxic or Burn. His Bulk Up set is really dangerous, however Mach Punch is usually the only move I've ever seen him use since everything pretty much out speeds Conk and threatens to KO back with a special move. Breloom makes a much better user of a set up sweeper, and Terrakion is an all around better Fighting type in general. I think Conkeldurr is a really good Pokemon that can be dangerous in the right hands, however he finds it really hard to shine in this meta game. I think he should stay in C-Rank, but if he were to go to low B-Rank I wouldn't see much of a problem with it.

 

[Schpoonman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and ignore me if I'm talking about semantics too much, but there aren't tiers in the rankings. There is no "low B-rank, high S-rank, mid A-rank". I get where you guys are coming from, but better language to use would be "barely B-rank, on the cusp of S-rank" because we don't differentiate between Starmie, who struggles to make itself known in the metagame (in my recent experience) and Venusaur, who is possibly the most dangerous sweeper in the OU metagame right now.

Now, to be on topic: Against Magneton being tiered at all, and keep Conkeldurr in C-rank.

Magneton: Magneton's Choice Scarf set is the ONLY set it has that's better than anything Magnezone can do (Eviolite just does not work on a Pokemon with very obvious weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and a 4x weakness to Ground), but there are a multitude of Pokemon that are much faster and much more powerful, so its Choice Scarf set is mostly useless. In my experience, Magnezone's power is what makes him viable as a Magnet Puller. Magneton simply has no place in OU. It's not like those Pokemon that are outclassed in multiple aspects by separate Pokemon but mix them all together in a way that can't be recreated. It's just hopelessly outclassed.

Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr is too lop-sided. He sorely misses coverage if he's running SubPunch, but he takes too much damage too fast if he's not behind a Sub (with either his Bulk Up set or Guts set). He hits like a truck (though his Mach Punch is unquestionably weaker than Breloom's, his Focus Punch is terribly powerful, cleanly 2HKOing anything that doesn't resist it at worst) but is walled too easily through resistances and immunities.