Clauses on Pokemon Showdown

[Hipmonlee]

You also could handle misclicks with the "are you sure you want to use a move that might break sleep clause" message box, or grey out the move so it cant even be selected.. Whatever I dont care, we might as well have some misclick protection..

But the situations you are talking about seem like some pretty short straws to grasp. I mean, what even is the current ruling when you are down to your last pokemon and your only pp left is a sleep move? I can remember multiple versions of this before the time the sim enforced the move failure.

Either way we are gonna have funny little edge cases. We could announce an ideal sleep clause that covers all these. But the point is, there is always innaccuracies in the sim.

A sleep clause like that is unenforceable on carts and has significant repercussions - like the GSC one - I am opposed to. However a sleep clause in rby that has repercussions in the single instance of a last pokemon victreebel/venusaur against a full health boosted slowbro is not something that worries me.

 

[Joim]

The discussion should be about which clauses to implement (ie. Freeze Clause yes/no), because the Sleep Clause will change for all te sim if it has to change and there's no plans to change it by now.

 

[Crystal_]

I'd implement freeze clause. There's no total need to, but the is no reason not to.

 

[Dre89]

I'd implement freeze clause. There's no total need to, but the is no reason not to.

The reason not to is because we're changing the mechanics of the game for something that doesn't really alter its competitiveness. Even with a FC, the game is still incredibly luck-based, and you still are likely to get screwed over by a million other types of hax that are actually more probable than freezes.

It isn't worth making the game illegitimate for such an insignificant change to its competitiveness.

Joim- Well if PS is going to stick with illegitimate mechanics, is there any chance of a Stadium tier being implemented as well? It'd be nice to have a legitimate tier as well.

 

[Golden Gyarados]

The reason not to is because we're changing the mechanics of the game for something that doesn't really alter its competitiveness. Even with a FC, the game is still incredibly luck-based, and you still are likely to get screwed over by a million other types of hax that are actually more probable than freezes.

It isn't worth making the game illegitimate for such an insignificant change to its competitiveness.

Joim- Well if PS is going to stick with illegitimate mechanics, is there any chance of a Stadium tier being implemented as well? It'd be nice to have a legitimate tier as well.

Can you turn clauses off if you don't want to use them? I'm really tired of the "pure mechanics" argument, because yes, clauses alter mechanics of the game to enforce competitive standards, that's a thing most people accept. For those of you who will just die if there's any tampering with the purity of the cartridge, I'm pretty sure you can disable clauses, right? So why not implement them for those that want them and if you don't want to use them, don't use them?

 

[Jorgen]

Sure, that'd be a good option. The ladder should probably, at the very least, have Sleep Clause enforced, though, because it's just way easier than trying to enforce some workaround.

 

[Dre89]

Can you turn clauses off if you don't want to use them? I'm really tired of the "pure mechanics" argument, because yes, clauses alter mechanics of the game to enforce competitive standards, that's a thing most people accept. For those of you who will just die if there's any tampering with the purity of the cartridge, I'm pretty sure you can disable clauses, right? So why not implement them for those that want them and if you don't want to use them, don't use them?

Enforcing a freeze clause is like making counter work on all physical attacks or ghost moves actually hit psychic types. It alters the game to make it slightly more competitive, but the game is still incredibly luck-based anyway.

There are a lot of mechanics that you could alter to make the game more competitive. If you want to go down that road just play mods that balance it completely.

The game should be left untouched by default. It shouldn't be 'spoiled' for the people who want to play the real game on the ladder when you can just play mods if you want a balanced version.

I can understand a sleep clause, because that does alter the competitiveness of the game significantly. But there's no need for a mechanical one because a non-mechanical one doesn't make the game any less competitive but keeps true mechanics. But seeing as it'll be mechanical anyway there's no point talking about it.

 

[Joim]

Joim- Well if PS is going to stick with illegitimate mechanics, is there any chance of a Stadium tier being implemented as well? It'd be nice to have a legitimate tier as well.

We are struggling to get a Gen 1 OU via challenge by now due to the amount of players, having two Gen 1 tiers won't happen. Especially Stadium, a lot of people hate it. Anyone the whole mechanics argument is dull, especially when it was Nintendo itself who created this Sleep and Freeze clauses...

Sure, that'd be a good option. The ladder should probably, at the very least, have Sleep Clause enforced, though, because it's just way easier than trying to enforce some workaround.

It's also the smarter thing to do, honestly. If you want to play pure RBY you could as well take your old GB and cartridge and play in link play with friends.

Enforcing a freeze clause is like making counter work on all physical attacks or ghost moves actually hit psychic types. It alters the game to make it slightly more competitive, but the game is still incredibly luck-based anyway.

There are a lot of mechanics that you could alter to make the game more competitive. If you want to go down that road just play mods that balance it completely.

The game should be left untouched by default. It shouldn't be 'spoiled' for the people who want to play the real game on the ladder when you can just play mods if you want a balanced version.

I can understand a sleep clause, because that does alter the competitiveness of the game significantly. But there's no need for a mechanical one because a non-mechanical one doesn't make the game any less competitive but keeps true mechanics. But seeing as it'll be mechanical anyway there's no point talking about it.

Here's the deal: You keep playing Custom Game in Showdown, which is what you want and it's already available, and let the rest of us play the Gen 1 OU with clauses when it's added.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Freeze clause adds fuck all to the game, dont bother with it.

The only real justification for adding it is to stop people whining..

Enforce sleep clause though, if its an option between sleep clause as it has been or no sleep clause at all, only one of those games is remotely similar to rby as it should be.

 

[Dre89]

We are struggling to get a Gen 1 OU via challenge by now due to the amount of players, having two Gen 1 tiers won't happen. Especially Stadium, a lot of people hate it. Anyone the whole mechanics argument is dull, especially when it was Nintendo itself who created this Sleep and Freeze clauses...

I don't understand how many times I have to say this. The clauses were originally made for 3v3 and only intended for 3v3, which is why they were never implemented in the cartridge games. Nintendo never intended them for 6v6.