I never stated otherwise. I even recommended using a 401 hp spread. That post was about whether or not 400 is the leftovers number or 401 is the leftovers number. 401 is superior overall, but 400 gives the most recovery out of the hp ev's, which is what a leftovers number does.
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Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
I would agree with the Scizor + Thundurus pairing, first of all; this Thundurus screams "Volt-Turn!" My question is: is this meant to be a sweeper for a Rain team. If so, you need Politoed with HP Grass (for Gastrodon), probably a Specs set. If not, switch Thunder for Thunderbolt.
Well shoot. By the looks of it I stand corrected. What I've been calling the actual Leftovers Number for years was actually just the "optimal balance between Leftovers recovery and minimizing chip damage" number instead. Sorry LudwiG!
One of the things I like this thread for is to use other people's sets in battle and post videos here of my success to credit the progenitor and prove that it works:
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14392654
...Celebi THOUGHT it could switch into Thundurus...
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14581810
Thundurus OHKOs Tyranitar with Superpower, winning the weather war and letting Kingdra destroy the opposing team.
omg this could actually work, I've always been a fan of subnadus but havent been able to decide on the last moveslot...i love this lol.
Ok guys, here's my set, nastypassbi:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 16 Spe or 236 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Baton Pass
I use this on my current team, which I've peaked #2 on PS with. Seriously, this set has impressed me so much. It basically functions as three things simultaneously: a great physical/special wall, an NP BPer, and an additional win condition, and you don't have to pick which! With psychic, this celebi can still check a multitude of fighting-types, as well as being able to beat u-turnless landy-i 1-on-1 with either defensive spread barring hax. Meanwhile, BP lets celebi escape from things immune/resistant to psychic that try to trap it, like tyranitar and scizor, while recover keeps you healthy. But the crux of the set is nasty plot. Since celebi forces so many switches due to its ability to wall the hell out of stuff, you can easily get free NPs off. This makes celebi threatening enough that often this will provoke another switch from the opponent (say, for example, they bring in their own celebi. NP celebi with HP ice destroys other bis, so they might very well switch out, letting you get a second boost), which lets you boost further. Given that basically nothing can OHKO bi (especially on whichever side you choose to invest in--for example, defensive celebi take roughly 65% from CBnite outrage, which you easily stall for confusion or BP out of) you usually have at least a turn's warning to pass to whatever receiver of your choice and sweep.
In my experience Keldeo is maybe the best partner for this set due to its incredible synergy with celebi. They also force out/draw in exactly the mons the other wants to see--celebi draws in ttar and scizor, which it can BP to keldeo on. Keldeo meanwhile draws in bulky waters such as jellicent and even bulky grasses like ferro and other celebi, as well as the pink blobs if not using SS--celebi can absolutely set up on these. Natural cure also means celebi can take a twave, give a slow pass to keldeo, and come back without harm.
Give this set a try out, it's incredibly effective if used right!
I either faced you or someone using your team/set and it was quite the surprise and threat :o When I saw celebi use np I was thinking, "oh.. another dumb ladder-er... time to switch to [insert poke that can tank it easily because it was super early game]" and then it bped to lando and I was scared :P Surprisingly though, lando didn't have rp or it would have killed me (I was able to just revenge and then win soonafter) but it was a very high-pressure situation
I recall in bw1 running a very similar set (though wtih different intentions/execution):
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature / Calm Nature
- Giga Drain/Recover
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
The opp rarely realized what celebi would be doing, and by the time they did it was already out of sub-breaking range for like gengar and ko so it would set up to +6 and pass to starmie or tornadus or whatever and sweep
That was one of my most successful teams I think (got to ~2 as well I believe, but those were the po days)
But I can't manage to make it work again for the life of me :P
I'm pretty sure I know who that was you faced, not me though since I've stuck with keldeo and thundy-t as receivers for now. And yeah, what I love about the set is that, sure, a ton of stuff can wall celebi even with an NP, but basically nothing can kill it before it passes that NP to something you sure can't wall. I actually used substitute for a while as well but dropped it since NP just made celebi such a great stall-breaker and I wanted it to be able to attack/recover as well (damn 4MSS). Cool set though fsure, I could see that sweeping teams.
Is there any specific advantage that Celebi has over Mew other than a resistance to Water and Grass?
the resistances that celebi provides are pretty valuable to any team. as for that particular set, i'd also say the surprise factor plays a large part in it being successful. not to mention the excellent offensive and defensive synergy that celebi has with some of the most dangerous offensive threats that would benefit from recieving a +2 boost.
That's actually assuming you don't get hit any of the times you come in, and only heal leftovers one time everytime you do come in so + 1 doesn't matter i think. You only really use + 1 on pokemon that are vulnerable to stealth rock so that you are at 1 hp after 2 or 4 switch ins (depending on how weak you are to them).
@alexwolf
that thundurus set is amazing. I'm definitely going to try that out some time.
@kidogo
my buddy itzgator actually did a po live video with a NP BP Celebi. it had giga drain over psychic and mainly bp'd out to landorus, but he had heatran/slowbro as other potential targets. it's definitely really good and underated.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Bulldoze
- Gyro Ball
People don't understand the utility of ferrodoze. No longer setup bait for magnezone. (and some other stuff but....)
In my team in particular, subcm rachi/anything with cm/anything too fast really sucks because my only physical attackers are ferro(but not really) and lando-t (phy defensive variant :P) However, by bulldozing the toxicroak/rachi/whatever on the switch/whenever, I can lower its speed to the point where lando can outspeed and ko.
And such
Lavos
Banned deucer.
since you don't run any atk evs, 252 hp jirachi still has a 100% chance of keeping its sub intact after the first bulldoze, and if they already have a boost or two before you switch in, plus thunder, plus water pulse, you could still conceivably lose to subcm rachi so i'd suggest running enough atk to break 252 hp rachi's sub at least half the time. that's what i did on my old rain stall team from bw1 and it worked like a charm. rachi is then no longer an issue. also, bulldozing lucario feels awesome
That was definitely a concern, but then I have to run something like 168 evs and with ferro being my primary wall that isn't too feasible :P
If its thunder/water pulse then I can usually sack a few things to weaken it enough (but that is never exactly ideal)
The more common, imo, psyshock/thunder though can be handled well enough by lando-t
And yes@lucario :P
In any case:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Att/ 84 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Bulldoze
- Gyro Ball
For those who would like to deal with subcm rachi+others easily :)
If one wants to beat SubCM Jirachi with Ferrothorn, Curse is a much better option than loads of Atk investment + Bulldoze. Bulldoze used to be an ok option when SubCM Jirachi where running 252 HP, but these days they use 100 Def EVs too, making Bulldoze almost useless aside from hitting Magnezone. Curse, on the other hand, combined with Power Whip means that Ferrothorn will be able to counter any CM Jirachi out there in the long run. Here are some calcs:
move 1: Curse
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Gyro Ball
move 4: Leech Seed / Spikes / Stealth Rock
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
- +2 0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Jirachi: 111-131 (27.47 - 32.42%) -- possible 4HKO
- +1 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Jirachi: 104-123 (25.74 - 30.44%) -- possible 4HKO
- +1 4 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 42-50 (11.93 - 14.2%) -- 9HKO at best
- +2 4 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 56-66 (15.9 - 18.75%) -- possible 8HKO
- +3 4 SpA Jirachi Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 70-82 (19.88 - 23.29%) -- possible 6HKO
move 1: Curse
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Gyro Ball
move 4: Leech Seed / Spikes / Stealth Rock
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
If you really want to use Bulldoze, Power Whip should be your STAB because Bulldoze's secondary effect weakens Gyro Ball. Otherwise this has potential.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Bulldoze
- Gyro Ball
People don't understand the utility of ferrodoze. No longer setup bait for magnezone. (and some other stuff but....)
In my team in particular, subcm rachi/anything with cm/anything too fast really sucks because my only physical attackers are ferro(but not really) and lando-t (phy defensive variant :P) However, by bulldozing the toxicroak/rachi/whatever on the switch/whenever, I can lower its speed to the point where lando can outspeed and ko.
And such
You would not use them on the same pokes, though.
Gyro ball would be used for the latis and the like
Bulldoze would be used for magnezone and the like
Also commenting to say that I really like that set, alexwolf :o
@Alexwolf's Mixed Thundurus' Therian
Breloom also makes a great partner; together, they make a strong offensive core.
Thundy can U-turn, dealing over 65% ususally.
Breloom can finish Celebi with Technician boosted Mach Punch after rocks.
Breloom also makes a great partner; together, they make a strong offensive core.
Thundy can U-turn, dealing over 65% ususally.
Breloom can finish Celebi with Technician boosted Mach Punch after rocks.
Nice set. I myself was questioning the viability of Curse Ferrothorn the other day, wanted to test it out myself. I must say I am impressed by the fact it can so easily break the subs of Rachi. I'm definitely going to try this set out.
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14893951
Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
-
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn
"Le breloom sucks" tornadus.
With the creative part coming in at the -
If your opponent has a breloom it quickly becomes a liability because tornadus can absorb the spore and proceed to have priority hurricane/u-turn
There's a log up there
Also, on the curse ferrothorn set, shadow claw is also a viable option for the likes of reuninclus and such
Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
-
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn
"Le breloom sucks" tornadus.
With the creative part coming in at the -
If your opponent has a breloom it quickly becomes a liability because tornadus can absorb the spore and proceed to have priority hurricane/u-turn
There's a log up there
Also, on the curse ferrothorn set, shadow claw is also a viable option for the likes of reuninclus and such
Ah ah, looks excellent, priority with sleep talk is such a good idea. x)
But if there is no Breloom, you really can only Hurricane spam (ok, it already does that most of time but though...)
You should be warned of Low Sweep Loom though. I myself fire it very often (because activating sleep clause at start is just a bad overall strategy with loom), and Low Sweep let you under a lot of pressure since you're now KOed by bullet seed most of time.
But if there is no Breloom, you really can only Hurricane spam (ok, it already does that most of time but though...)
You should be warned of Low Sweep Loom though. I myself fire it very often (because activating sleep clause at start is just a bad overall strategy with loom), and Low Sweep let you under a lot of pressure since you're now KOed by bullet seed most of time.
My beef with Sleep Absorber Tornadus is that you exchanged the niche ability to take sleep for the pretty crappy downside of getting trapped by Tyranitar, especially CB Ttar. U-turn does not escape Pursiut, and "only" does about a third to TTar if by chance it select U-turn. Meanwhile, Pursuit can cleanly do 50% or more to Tornadus.http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-14893951
Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
-
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn
"Le breloom sucks" tornadus.
With the creative part coming in at the -
If your opponent has a breloom it quickly becomes a liability because tornadus can absorb the spore and proceed to have priority hurricane/u-turn
There's a log up there
Also, on the curse ferrothorn set, shadow claw is also a viable option for the likes of reuninclus and such
Why would you ever use Shadow Claw. STAB Power Whip or STAB Gyro Ball outdamages a super effective Shadow Claw by 40 points! The set in question is alexwolf's one with Pwhip/Gyro/Curse/Leech Seed. Gengar= Gyro Ball Jellicent=Pwhip
Sableye=Pwhip
70*2 = 140
120*1.5=180
So I was playing around with random sets trying to turn them into deadly sweepers, and then I came upon this gem: SubSalac CM Keldeo. CM Keldeo is a pretty deadly set, but too slow for the current fast-paced meta game. This set paired with Salac Berry gains the Speed of a Scarf but deals huge damage through the use of Calm Mind. It can play a bit like a double dancer set, boosting Speed against an offensive team while setting Calm Mind all over a stall team. Combining the both makes it a bulky, powerful, and quick sweeper that smashes stuff to the ground.
Keldeo @Salac Berry
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Secret Sword
I am not very good at EV spreads, but I want to make this set more bulky on the physical side to be able to set up on Ferrothorn only running Gyro Ball, or Specially Defensive Jirachi, and increasing its ability to take priority moves. If anyone would be willing to help me input EVs that accomplish these, I would appreciate it. Overall, this is a set that deserves more usage due to its unparalleled combination of speed, bulk, and power.
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Secret Sword
I am not very good at EV spreads, but I want to make this set more bulky on the physical side to be able to set up on Ferrothorn only running Gyro Ball, or Specially Defensive Jirachi, and increasing its ability to take priority moves. If anyone would be willing to help me input EVs that accomplish these, I would appreciate it. Overall, this is a set that deserves more usage due to its unparalleled combination of speed, bulk, and power.
Well, with 96 defense evs Keldeo's sub is not broken by Adamant Life Orb Scizor's Bullet Punch pretty much all the time (108 Evs for guarantee). Ferro's Gyro Ball and Rachi's Bodyslam won't break your sub without any defense evs anyway.
I would sacrafice Special Attack evs because Speed is too important for a salac set and Surf is still absurdly powerful in the rain, especially after a calm mind boost.
I would sacrafice Special Attack evs because Speed is too important for a salac set and Surf is still absurdly powerful in the rain, especially after a calm mind boost.