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np: NU Stage 9 - Locked Out of Heaven
- Thread starter jake
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Actually, it is a huge disappointment for me that Serebii is the one who made the error. All other sources have never shown Metang learning Magic Coat at any point :(
While I was knocking up the cheapest whore-ass of a team I could think of so maybe I could have a spin on the ole NU ladder again, I realised that using the Showdown team builder is akin to rubbing my eyes up and down vigorously upon a rusty yet still dangerously sharp cheese grater.
Cut to the chase - does anyone know where the 'search Pokemon by various attributes i.e. type, ability, move, base stat... etc' tool has gone on the PO client? I can't see it anywhere on the new client :(
While I'm here, may I ask is there a particularly good teambuilding thing that lets you search by attributes like I used to be able to do on PO. I blame this complete and unaldulterated thread derail on a lack of 'Simple Questions Simple Answers Thread'. Hope to see some of you on the ladder!
Cut to the chase - does anyone know where the 'search Pokemon by various attributes i.e. type, ability, move, base stat... etc' tool has gone on the PO client? I can't see it anywhere on the new client :(
While I'm here, may I ask is there a particularly good teambuilding thing that lets you search by attributes like I used to be able to do on PO. I blame this complete and unaldulterated thread derail on a lack of 'Simple Questions Simple Answers Thread'. Hope to see some of you on the ladder!
I think this is what your looking for? Also welcome back!
Thanks big D (or is that J...) that thing might even be a bit over the top lol but it looks glorious!
I was watching Treecko battle someone with a team I made, and the choice between using Psychic/Psyshock on Jynx really mattered (and was the difference between winning/losing ultimately). Which do you think is most effective in this metagame? On one hand you have Munchlax, while on the other hand, physical walls are everywhere. So what comes to mind is which do you think is most effective? Should it only come down to what set you're using or can you afford to stick to the same move without set considerations in mind, given what type of Pokemon you're more likely to see in the metagame? Discuss yo.
Quite an useless comment, but... it depends whatever your team is weak to. If your team is weak to Alomomola (not Tangela and the likes, you've Ice Beam for that), Psychic is undoubtedly the superior choice. If your team is weak to Munchlax/Lickilicky, Psyshock is.
No option is strictly better than the other, though I generally see more use for Psychic even if only because of higher BP.
No option is strictly better than the other, though I generally see more use for Psychic even if only because of higher BP.
i would use psychic over psyshock for various reasons: power, physically bulky pokemon such as regirock and alomomola being more common than specially bulky pokemon such as lickilicky and munchlax (though momo cant do anything besides toxic, and even then, many jynx carry sub) and while i havent laddered that much since new meta began about a month ago, i havent seen many munchlax at all, suprisingly less than i expected. even then, teammates that deal with munchlax well (i.e. sawk and primeape) can be used to deal with it easily. another reason to use psyshock instead is to have an easier time winning a cm war if such a situation occurred. (which are rather uncommon) psyshock has its merits, but psychic is generally better to use.
Depends on the preference of your team's needs for specific threats, least to say. Psychic is generally superior on Choice Scarf sets (since most setup Pokemon like Carracosta or Garbodor are better off being hit on the Special side), and is starting to become somewhat common on the standard Life Orb set. It's better vs Alomomola and Weezing (though Ice Beam still does a lot and Weezing is most likely not going to stay in on Jynx) but that's about it really, otherwise Psyshock hits Munchlax, Regice, Lickilicky, or Mantine.
I hate Alomomola and will always use Psychic>Psyshock.
Seriously though, I usually carry enough physical attackers that can plow through special walls. With an ample amount of physical attackers and physical walls and very few special walls and special attackers, it is typically better to run Psychic from my experiences.
I seriously despise Alomomola.
I generally go for Psychic in this metagame, but I agree with Agent Dell that it's mainly down to how the rest of the team looks whether Jynx should use Psyshock or not. This logic though I feel mainly applies to Jynx's LO set as other sets such as Choice Scarf or Nasty Plot + Lovely Kiss prefer a specific one.
On Choice Scarf, Psychic is better on Jynx as it lets it revenge kill Gorebyss and Carracosta much more reliably, which is one of the targets that it aims to hit. Specially defensive Pokemon such as Lickilicky or Regice are crippled enough by Trick and/or Lovely Kiss. I personally think Ice Beam / Psychic / Lovely Kiss / Trick is the best way to run Scarf Jynx as the way it plays it only needs Ice Beam and Psychic as its offensive moves and Trick + Lovely Kiss easily cripples the best switch ins to Jynx such as Lickilicky and Munchlax. Focus Blast is a really unreliable move to be locked into anyways.
For Nasty Plot + Lovely Kiss Jynx prefers Psyshock as it doesn't want special walls from ruining its sweep and it deals plenty of damage to Psychic targets after +2 anyways. +2 Psyshock does massive damage to Grumpig, Regice, Munchlax, and Lickilicky, 2HKOing all of them (LO +2 Psyshock OHKOes Regice after SR and has a decent chance to do the same vs Licky and Munchlax)
As a final note, Lovely Kiss should be on every Jynx set ever. Don't let me catch anyone not using it. ;;
On Choice Scarf, Psychic is better on Jynx as it lets it revenge kill Gorebyss and Carracosta much more reliably, which is one of the targets that it aims to hit. Specially defensive Pokemon such as Lickilicky or Regice are crippled enough by Trick and/or Lovely Kiss. I personally think Ice Beam / Psychic / Lovely Kiss / Trick is the best way to run Scarf Jynx as the way it plays it only needs Ice Beam and Psychic as its offensive moves and Trick + Lovely Kiss easily cripples the best switch ins to Jynx such as Lickilicky and Munchlax. Focus Blast is a really unreliable move to be locked into anyways.
For Nasty Plot + Lovely Kiss Jynx prefers Psyshock as it doesn't want special walls from ruining its sweep and it deals plenty of damage to Psychic targets after +2 anyways. +2 Psyshock does massive damage to Grumpig, Regice, Munchlax, and Lickilicky, 2HKOing all of them (LO +2 Psyshock OHKOes Regice after SR and has a decent chance to do the same vs Licky and Munchlax)
As a final note, Lovely Kiss should be on every Jynx set ever. Don't let me catch anyone not using it. ;;
Scarf Jynx probably doesn't need it.
You're right that Scarf Jynx is generally less dependent on Lovely Kiss, but EBeast's lecture still implies that you should be using it anyways, as it's by far Jynx's best move regardless of what set you're using.
OK I want to bring up a cool strategy that I've been using for a while on the ladder now, and it absolutely stomps unprepared teams. I'm talking Tailwind baby~
I'll be honest, I've not really made a full Tailwind team, as that would make it fairly unflexible when I come across a team such as Stall which can pivot around, Protect to waste precious turns etc. No, I'm using a simple combo of antilead Butterfree and Choice Band Fraxure. Butterfree is by the way an excellent way to prevent SR from being set up. When they switch it's just hilarious: you can predict it and Stun Spore the next Pokemon, you can U-Turn to gain immediate momentum, or you can simply go for the Tailwind right away if you see that the opponents team really relies on outspeeding threats to deal with them and can't take a hit. This is where it gets interesting, since a massive amount of teams on the ladder nowadays are... offensive.
I use Fraxure as my Choice Bander because its STAB Outrage is nigh unresisted in the tier. Early game though you can soften stuff up with Dragon Claw and coverage moves, and lategame just go for the Outrage sweep. I use Jolly since it then outspeeds Scarf Rotom-S, Jynx, Primeape and Charizard (and easily OHKOs them without Stealth Rock) as well as other mons with naturally high Defense such as Gorebyss. Adamant can be used for that pinch of extra power but I've found that outspeeding the tiers premier Scarfers to be far more beneficial.
Of course, you're not limited to Fraxure! Wrecking balls such as Choice Band Sawk also work fine under Tailwind, but require a tad more support due to the ubiquity of Misdreavus and Scolipede, which means that it cannot spam its STAB move so easily. Close Combat defense drops also make it more prone to revenge killing with priority moves. I'm using Butterfree as my setter because I like keeping SR off and the sheer cool factor, but there are of course other nigty options. Illumise, Murkrow and Cottonee can all set it up with priority, Articuno has the available moveslots and can possibly set it up multiple times due to Roost and its insane bulk, and Braviary can set it up and absuse it at the same time.
edit @ below: well damn i wasn't aware that Zard got Tailwind! Another fantastic mon to set it up then
I'll be honest, I've not really made a full Tailwind team, as that would make it fairly unflexible when I come across a team such as Stall which can pivot around, Protect to waste precious turns etc. No, I'm using a simple combo of antilead Butterfree and Choice Band Fraxure. Butterfree is by the way an excellent way to prevent SR from being set up. When they switch it's just hilarious: you can predict it and Stun Spore the next Pokemon, you can U-Turn to gain immediate momentum, or you can simply go for the Tailwind right away if you see that the opponents team really relies on outspeeding threats to deal with them and can't take a hit. This is where it gets interesting, since a massive amount of teams on the ladder nowadays are... offensive.
I use Fraxure as my Choice Bander because its STAB Outrage is nigh unresisted in the tier. Early game though you can soften stuff up with Dragon Claw and coverage moves, and lategame just go for the Outrage sweep. I use Jolly since it then outspeeds Scarf Rotom-S, Jynx, Primeape and Charizard (and easily OHKOs them without Stealth Rock) as well as other mons with naturally high Defense such as Gorebyss. Adamant can be used for that pinch of extra power but I've found that outspeeding the tiers premier Scarfers to be far more beneficial.
Of course, you're not limited to Fraxure! Wrecking balls such as Choice Band Sawk also work fine under Tailwind, but require a tad more support due to the ubiquity of Misdreavus and Scolipede, which means that it cannot spam its STAB move so easily. Close Combat defense drops also make it more prone to revenge killing with priority moves. I'm using Butterfree as my setter because I like keeping SR off and the sheer cool factor, but there are of course other nigty options. Illumise, Murkrow and Cottonee can all set it up with priority, Articuno has the available moveslots and can possibly set it up multiple times due to Roost and its insane bulk, and Braviary can set it up and absuse it at the same time.
edit @ below: well damn i wasn't aware that Zard got Tailwind! Another fantastic mon to set it up then
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4672819&postcount=333
I'll drink to that.
I'll drink to that.
I agree. Tailwind is a very under-looked strategy that can often mean the difference among several advantages that carry on their ways towards the deciding factor of the match among many opposing offensive and defensive teams alike. Regarding Lead Butterfree, it's a very interesting set that I've been mentioning a few times to people who may or may not be familiar about it here and there, and I myself am very interested in it myself and really want to try it out very soon.
Butterfree's ability to rack up status-inducing move rather successfully and reliable definitely allows the team to obtain an early-game advantage and momentum with this strategy, while Articuno and Braviary has a lot of ways upon finding opportunities to setup due to their solid bulk and ability to force switches a lot. The offensive Pokemon that Cherub Agent have selected are definitely solid abusers of Tailwind as well.
I think offensive players should give a strategy like this a try if they haven't done so already, as it's surprisingly very effective and is applicable in a variety of teams and situations.
Butterfree's ability to rack up status-inducing move rather successfully and reliable definitely allows the team to obtain an early-game advantage and momentum with this strategy, while Articuno and Braviary has a lot of ways upon finding opportunities to setup due to their solid bulk and ability to force switches a lot. The offensive Pokemon that Cherub Agent have selected are definitely solid abusers of Tailwind as well.
I think offensive players should give a strategy like this a try if they haven't done so already, as it's surprisingly very effective and is applicable in a variety of teams and situations.
Speaking of Braviary, what does everybody feel about its effectiveness this round? While Scarf hasn't been as useful to me, I feel like Band and SubBU are still very effective in their respective roles. The rise of Misdreavus and Weezing as physical walls over Alomomola is helpful to Band because both are 2HKOed without Rocks damage. The SubBU set also loves Weezing's in usage on even the occasional offensive teams as a pivot since it gives it another opportunity to set up; on the other hand, it dislikes the rise in Foul Play Misdreavus. Of course, this is only from my own experiences, so what do you guys think?
I've actually been thinking about using Braviary in this metagame recently. With the recent shifts people have been using less Alomomola and less Regirock in favor of Misdreavus, Weezing, and Metang, which Braviary can break through. CB Braviary puts massive holes into teams that are currently focusing on beating Scolipede and Jynx, while putting Birds on the backburner. SubBU Braviary is still pretty effective as well with the rise of Metang over other Flying-type resists. While Metang is very good Pokemon this meta, it doesn't do so hot vs SubBU Braviary unless it's using Psych Up. If Metang switches into Braviary as it uses Bulk Up, it becomes a 50/50 shot of winning. Metang can either predict Substitute and go for Meteor Mash (Which barely breaks Brav's Sub at +1) or Toxic predicting another Bulk Up.
SubBU Braviary was contained easier back in the day as Flying-types were the big focus in the metagame and people running 2 checks to Braviary such as Rock-type/Piloswine + Scarf Rotom-A was a common sight. However, it is now easier to support Braviary since the latter has fallen out of favor due to other Scarf Pokemon becoming popular such as Scarf Primeape, Charizard, and Jynx.
Speaking of Rotom-A falling a bit out of favor, I've actually been using Scarf Zebstrika instead. Even with Modest it still outspeeds even Scarf Zard and provides Volt Switch momentum, which is nice. It also packs Overheat which lets it check Scolipede, Jynx, Serperior, and hit Metang for massive damage. Has anybody else been using Zebstrika in this metagame? What set and what did you think of it?
SubBU Braviary was contained easier back in the day as Flying-types were the big focus in the metagame and people running 2 checks to Braviary such as Rock-type/Piloswine + Scarf Rotom-A was a common sight. However, it is now easier to support Braviary since the latter has fallen out of favor due to other Scarf Pokemon becoming popular such as Scarf Primeape, Charizard, and Jynx.
Speaking of Rotom-A falling a bit out of favor, I've actually been using Scarf Zebstrika instead. Even with Modest it still outspeeds even Scarf Zard and provides Volt Switch momentum, which is nice. It also packs Overheat which lets it check Scolipede, Jynx, Serperior, and hit Metang for massive damage. Has anybody else been using Zebstrika in this metagame? What set and what did you think of it?
To be honest, for quite some time until recently I've never really understood the logic behind using a Choice Scarf set with Zebstrika seeing as it's already really fast and is quite weak compared to other Electric-types. I've came to realize that what particularly matters is it's coverage and Speed the more time you think about it in the current state of the metagame, since it outpaces every other common Choice Scarf user in the tier of course and has the coverage to hit several Pokemon neutrally at worst, giving it justifyable reasons to use over other Electric types. Lightningrod is also really valuable and makes for a plentiful way to check other Choice locked Electric-types like Rotom-A while giving it a cool boost on the process. While Choice Scarf will usually make the most plausable use of Zebstrika as of result, it also can use other items as well since its Speed means isn't entirely dependent on Choice Scarf to be effective (perhaps options like Specs or Expert Belt seems cool too).
Yeah, I tried Expert Belt Zebstrika not too long ago, and while it wasn't a bad Pokemon on my team by any means, its power is really disappointing. I ended up switching to Life Orb, which, while nice in its own regard, doesn't give you the utility of bluffing a Choice Scarf. It's really a 50/50. Both have their uses, and both are effective. Neither outclass each other because which one you would rather run usually depends on the situation. Zebstrika's speed tier is sexy though, and it definitely warrants its usage right now (and even in past metas, although much less so than this one).
As for Braviary, I still haven't used it this meta, even though I really should. I've been excited for SubBU since we first got the drops. No, it isn't very fast, but this isn't a problem for such a set. The ability to serve as a wall-breaker more than justifies the team slot. The ability to set up on a good portion of the metagame is even nicer. Since most Scolipede (in my experience) run Aqua Tail in lieu of Rock Slide, a 90 BP move is the best Scolipede has to hit it with. It can also, obviously, set up on certain choice locked moves. Braviary is still a very real threat right now that should not be ignored. I will say, however, that I can only imagine that its usage has plummeted since March's stats.
Another Pokemon that I have been interested in lately is Munchlax. I haven't really seen this little guy around since it dropped, and it's the only drop I personally have yet to use. I'm sure its most common set up to this point has probably been the same one Snorlax likes to run in UU--RestTalk/Whirlwind/Body Slam. Another set that sounds pretty cool right now is a Curse set. The main things that can break through Munchlax are obviously Fighting-types, and Sawk can break through Munchlax easily even with a couple of Curses under its belt. For reference, Adamant Banded Sawk still has a good chance of OHKOing 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Munchlax at +2. But I feel like once the opponent's Fighting types have been eliminated (which isn't too difficult is paired with Misdreavus), Munchlax can set up much more easily.
Has anyone else tried it out in since it dropped nearly a month ago? Even if it is the typical RestTalk Phaser, how has it worked out for you?
#stallneverdies
As for Braviary, I still haven't used it this meta, even though I really should. I've been excited for SubBU since we first got the drops. No, it isn't very fast, but this isn't a problem for such a set. The ability to serve as a wall-breaker more than justifies the team slot. The ability to set up on a good portion of the metagame is even nicer. Since most Scolipede (in my experience) run Aqua Tail in lieu of Rock Slide, a 90 BP move is the best Scolipede has to hit it with. It can also, obviously, set up on certain choice locked moves. Braviary is still a very real threat right now that should not be ignored. I will say, however, that I can only imagine that its usage has plummeted since March's stats.
Another Pokemon that I have been interested in lately is Munchlax. I haven't really seen this little guy around since it dropped, and it's the only drop I personally have yet to use. I'm sure its most common set up to this point has probably been the same one Snorlax likes to run in UU--RestTalk/Whirlwind/Body Slam. Another set that sounds pretty cool right now is a Curse set. The main things that can break through Munchlax are obviously Fighting-types, and Sawk can break through Munchlax easily even with a couple of Curses under its belt. For reference, Adamant Banded Sawk still has a good chance of OHKOing 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Munchlax at +2. But I feel like once the opponent's Fighting types have been eliminated (which isn't too difficult is paired with Misdreavus), Munchlax can set up much more easily.
Has anyone else tried it out in since it dropped nearly a month ago? Even if it is the typical RestTalk Phaser, how has it worked out for you?
#stallneverdies
Hello everyone. I have never posted anything here at the NU section(just lazy). Well here is my first post. :]
Yes, Treecko, I have tried curse Munchlax. Its good. I have paired it with a defensive Musharna. Its a good core IMO. Only a few banded pokes like Rampardos, Fraxure and Torterra can break through it. Also SD leavanny is a threat too. However, these pokes are uncommon.
But then I havent tried Misdreavus. I think it is a good pair for Munchlax. Lemme try it.
:)
Yes, Treecko, I have tried curse Munchlax. Its good. I have paired it with a defensive Musharna. Its a good core IMO. Only a few banded pokes like Rampardos, Fraxure and Torterra can break through it. Also SD leavanny is a threat too. However, these pokes are uncommon.
But then I havent tried Misdreavus. I think it is a good pair for Munchlax. Lemme try it.
:)
I've used Munchlax extensively in this meta (classic Rest-Talk) and he works wonderfully to me, since he can tank even boosted special attacks. with a ghost givin' support to him, his life is elongated so much and Body Slam isn't too weak even without ATK EVs, but i have a curse that prevents me to pratically never paralyze the opponent lol. Actually i think that Munchlax is the most consistent and durable Special Wall in the tier and he can also support the team with an occasional paralysis and phazing opponent's special setupper and recover all his HP with Rest.
Against things like Jynx is pretty awesome since he resists one of his STABs and can tank even a +2 Psychic (the trouble starts when Jynx has Psyshock), phazing her and body slamming.
I think Munchlax is a great poke. Massive special bulk, 2 resistances, 1 immunity and only one weakness (which is rare on the special side), phazing and a solid attack with para chance. I haven't used it since the beginning of RU so I'm massively hyped to use it again. It could be a top NU pokemon imo.
Also does anyone have any quick suggestions of how to stop lead Sash Scolipede from getting any Spikes down? Like decent Pokemon not taunt Cottonee or anything. Is there a Poke faster than Scolipede with a multi-hit move? Right now I'm forced to concede at least 1 layer of Spikes and I'm not happy with that at all >:(
Also does anyone have any quick suggestions of how to stop lead Sash Scolipede from getting any Spikes down? Like decent Pokemon not taunt Cottonee or anything. Is there a Poke faster than Scolipede with a multi-hit move? Right now I'm forced to concede at least 1 layer of Spikes and I'm not happy with that at all >:(
the only ways i can think of are scarf sleep (jynx, butterfree), leading with a spinner (most of them beat scolipede), or using persian which is shit. another option would be leading with something so dangerous that they're forced to attack you in fear of setting up—such as samurott or carracosta—and attacking right away.
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