Gen V Balanced Hackmons

[Redless]

IMO, spore can be viably used on any pokemon that is not seen as magic bounce fodder. I think that the widespread availability of spore is what makes it broken. If the opponent doesn't switch a magic bouncer in as spore is used, something is going to be slept.

Ok, that wasn't clear. Thank you for clarifying. The thing that keeps many Pokemon from abuseing spore to its fullest of course, is the four moveslots. That said, I think that this reasoning is indeed valid.

When you say that spore is more dangerous to these sweepers because it can stop sweeps, this doesn't prove if sleep is broken or not. Saying that using a powerful technique can check that same technique makes the technique not broken doesn't make sense. Yes, prankster spore can stop sweeps, but doesn't this show how strong and centralizing spore is?

What I was saying is that spore provides an important check to many sweepers that otherwise might dominate, effectively balancing the metagame.

My point is, once the opponent knows Gengar has spore, they are taking a huge risk not using magic coat. Yes, prediction goes both ways, but this only matters if Jirachi/Shuckle are able to deal with Gengar in the same manner that Gengar deals with them.

If they magic coat and you sprore, you've just crippled Gengar, this dealing with it in the same manner it would deal with them. While I see that you use the Deoxys to subpass to Gengar, in many situations, the opponent would be prepared to sleep you with their magic coat.

In regards to mold breaker spore, there are quite a few ways to get past it, although most of them are used with it in mind. This may indeed be over centralizing to the metagame. I would be more open to testing mold breaker spore than the traditional variety, anyway. You have a valid point, although I am not sure how valid those in charge of suspect testing will see it. I hope I helped you develop your argument.

 

[EV]

You do know Pickpocket only activates when YOU are hit, right?

No, I didn't. =(

I guess Dark Gem+Thief would make better sense, but I liked the idea of boosting Acrobatics and activating Pickpocket at the same time. Oh well!

 

[BlankZero]

No, I didn't. =(

I guess Dark Gem+Thief would make better sense, but I liked the idea of boosting Acrobatics and activating Pickpocket at the same time. Oh well!

The only time I've seen Pickpocket used effectively is on Sashed Weavile, where something would try to OHKO it and get its leftovers or choice item snatched away.

 

[Golden009]

Sleep Talk is so fricking anti-meta. "Oh, so you thought you could put me to sleep? THINK AGAIN!"

 

[verbatim]

Alternatively, Magic Coat.

 

[Aeongate]

Alternatively, Magic Coat.

Have fun getting that off switching in.

 

[EV]

Sleep Talk is so fricking anti-meta. "Oh, so you thought you could put me to sleep? THINK AGAIN!"

To an extent, yes. But what about when you select a worthless move with it or you wake up and waste a turn? 1 turn is enough for a lot of monsters to set up or screw you over.

• 
  Magic Bounce is ideal as long as the opponent isn't running Mold Breaker Spore.

• Sap Sipper is a good alternative but see Magic Bounce.

• Insomnia/Vital Spirit are great since even though they fall asleep from Mold Breaker Spore, they always wake up at the end of each turn.
  I like Insomnia Lugia. It totally walls Prankster Groudon/Rhydon.

• Leaf Guard + Sun is pretty cool and there's Hydration + Rain.

 

[Vincent]

Other options against Spore are Magic Guard or Poison Heal + Toxic Orb.

 

[BlankZero]

Poison Heal Regigigas is such a beast.

 

[nincada assassin]

do people run prankster worry seed

 

[Toraen]

Gastro Acid is better if you want to nullify abilities. You don't want to give your opponent a temporary immunity to spore since you probably have it somewhere on your team. The only reason to use Worry Seed over Gastro Acid would be to prevent Rest, and that's not very common (only Hydration users are good with it, Sleep Talk is too unreliable for BH).

 

[Aeongate]

I wish Gastro Acid worked on Magic Bounce. Then again, that would probably make the ability far less useful, especially against Pranksters.

 

[Imanalt]

Ah the good old days with magic bounce steelceus being affected by gastro acid... :p

Anyways yeah im really not a fan of gastro acid in general because getting it bounced by magic boubce really screws you over, when you could be somethibg that more disables the opponent like spore if youre sure its not a bouncer :/

 

[Redless]

If you want to not be bothered by magic bounce without running mold breaker, skill swap is an alternative. It works well for weather starters or other Pokemon where their ability isn't super important in the long term.

 

[Adrian Marin]

I just recently found out that Teeter Dance is not stopped by Magic Bounce.

For example:

It's easy to keep subs and KO quickly with this set.


Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: null Atk / null SAtk
- Teeter Dance
- Substitute
- V-create
- Copycat

Click here to watch it sweep an entire team!

 

[Infernis]

No Guard Inferno or Dynamic Punch work just as well (or better) for inflicting status to magic bounce users.

 

[Adrian Marin]

No Guard Inferno or Dynamic Punch work just as well (or better) for inflicting status to magic bounce users.

However you will be forced to run No Guard, and Dynamic Punch is stopped by ghosts.

 

[Redless]

No guard inferno or dynamic punch nessecitates running no guard, where with teeter dance, you can run what you want as an ability.

 

[lokt]

If you want to not be bothered by magic bounce without running mold breaker, skill swap is an alternative. It works well for weather starters or other Pokemon where their ability isn't super important in the long term.

Redless, why did you reveal the secret? :(
Anyways, skill swap on stall is super important to get your hazards down against magic bounce. Otherwise, stall would have to use up a pokemon for mold breaker hazards which isn't as efficient as dedicating one move slot on 2 pokemon to get down your hazards efficiently.

 

[Golden009]

I may have just had the longest balanced hackmons match ever.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-16437428

He ended up just giving up at the end.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

I may have just had the longest balanced hackmons match ever.

snip

He ended up just giving up at the end.

81 turns is pretty short, even for BH. Some sand stall matches last upwards of 150 turns.

 

[Adrian Marin]

I may have just had the longest balanced hackmons match ever.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/balancedhackmons-16437428
He ended up just giving up at the end.

I have 200 plus turn matches often.

 

[Aeongate]

Games are so long mainly because every Pokemon has access to instant reliable recovery, and nearly all Pokemon benefit from it. Obviously this means that if you don't 2HKO the target, they may be able to simply ignore you and heal back up. Also, I've seen a few Wish Giratinas which are obviously great at keeping the rest of your team healthy, and doesn't require you to sacrifice moveslots on your other 'mons.

 

[EspyOwner]

WARNING: NEW CHALLENGERS APPROACHING!

Due to some snooping around in the WiFi blacklist thread, I found some people had done some pretty cool hacks... Like having a default forme Meloetta-P and Zenmanitan. Thanks to Nexus and Marty, we got to testing them and they perform as you would expect in battle - they keep forme! This is big news for other Pokemon with forme changes as well, such as Giratina and the now wild mind game that may or may not become popular... You'll learn to just call it Arceus.


I can't be too bothered to write up theorymon sets right now, but I'll be explaining the "mechanics" behind Arceus briefly after some quick stats on the rest of the Pokemon.

HP: 150
Attack: 120
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 120
Special Defense: 100
Speed: 90

HP: 100
Attack: 128
Defense: 90
Special Attack: 77
Special Defense: 77
Speed: 128

HP: 105
Attack: 40
Defense: 105
Special Attack: 140
Special Defense: 105
Speed: 55

HP: 120
Attack: 120
Defense: 120
Special Attack: 120
Special Defense: 120
Speed: 120

Now comes the fun part.

Arceus Factor

Arceus, as it is, has one sprite for each type in the current games. It used to be that to use these sprites you would have to use Multitype and a plate to match the type sprite you were to use. No one would ever think much of it, it wasn't that big of a deal.

Except now Arceus is allowed to use any of its sprites with any typing it can possibly use.

To gain a type other than Normal Arceus still must use Multitype, but do not fear, as you can still bluff by using a Normal Arceus sprite... Or if the metagame goes how I believe it will, no Arceus sprite is to ever be trusted. Is it really a Ghostceus? Is that Magic Bounce or is it just a Multityped Arceus in disguise? The only way to find out its typing is to have a keen eye for hazards, attack with whatever move you feel is the most appropriate, and to watch out for abilities that are out of the ordinary.

To make things more clear, the changes are like this

Typed Arceus can masquerade as any other Arceus, but must remain using Multitype with a plate attatched.
Normal Arceus can masquerade as any other Arceus while retaining its ability to... Well, use abilities. No plate required.

Here's a nice visual aid courtesy of user Marty from Pokemon Showdown!

As of writing this post these changes are not yet implemented into Showdown! but will be in due time they're implemented now.

 

[Imanalt]

frankly, i dont see darm-z or meloetta-p having a particularly large impact, but gira-o will have a very pronounced impact on the metagame. it FINALLY gives us a good option for an offensive ghost other than gengar, and since it can run judgment with spooky or draco plate, can do the same thing gengar does against imposters! However gira-o also has enormous bulk to help it set up, as well as not being weak to nature power like gengar was.