Good point about SR and Scarf. I still don't much like Scarf Haxorus since it reinforces a SpDef Skarm weakness but another Scarf Dragon might do the trick (at least it'll have the coverage moves to do something, I think. I haven't calced anything yet.) for Rotom-W that is. Balloon Tran again shows up as a viable pick to counter Garchomp and setup SR but its so useless against the rest of the team that it isn't really ideal. We could use Lando as a way to check Garchomp by foddering it to an Outrage and revenge killing it although that's throwing away the only significant punch on Team 1. I'll look at some specific sets and edit/post results soon.
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Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]
- Thread starter ganj4lF
- Start date
I've noticed that Tyranitar might be a good choice for team 1, no Pokemon really are bothered by sandstorm at all. I'd pick Tyranitar over Hippowdown and go mixed because apparently Melee is really concerned over Skarmory, but I want feedback first. Sandstorm is a staple of the OU metagame now, so I would really like to see it come in. Maybe something like this?
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Trait: Sandstorm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 12 SpA / 240 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
12 SpA is the minimum for the guaranteed 2HKO after SR on SpD Skarmory (standard)
12 SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 152-180 (46.48 - 55.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is just an idea, feel free to take the set and tweak it and such if you want, I just wanted some feedback on this
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Trait: Sandstorm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 12 SpA / 240 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
12 SpA is the minimum for the guaranteed 2HKO after SR on SpD Skarmory (standard)
12 SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 152-180 (46.48 - 55.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is just an idea, feel free to take the set and tweak it and such if you want, I just wanted some feedback on this
Well, it would need a tad bit more speed so that Skarm wouldn't be able to Roost stall it for a miss as easily but speed creeping isn't that great in this project.
Aside from nitpicks, the problem I have with Tyranitar is that it doesn't counter Rotom or Garchomp. We need to be stopping at least one or the other.
Aside from nitpicks, the problem I have with Tyranitar is that it doesn't counter Rotom or Garchomp. We need to be stopping at least one or the other.
Right now BalloonTran and Terrakion look like good picks. Both of them dissuade Spikes users from being used on team 2. BalloonTran (which Melee Mewtwo seems to have reserved) is better in the sense that it easily sets up Stealth Rock on Garchomp, while Terrakion doesn't do well against any of the opponent's team members, but gives us a threatening sweeper, good speed, and more variety amidst team 1's special attacks.
Haxorus, Azelf, Magnezone and Durant are the other choices. I can't see what Magnezone accomplishes, and Durant is very strong but can't switch in well on anything our opponent has (and won't be able to unless they choose something that's likely to spam physical attacks Durant resists), has to set up to be reliable, and doesn't fill any utility roles for our team. It's an extremely high-risk Pokemon, and though it has good reward, I don't see why we need to use such an all-or-nothing choice at this point.
Haxorus or another Choice Scarf Dragon is a good pick, as Dragons can revenge-kill Garchomp and also take Rotom-W's attacks comfortably. Azelf isn't too bad but I would prefer some extra utility with that set.
So Drako, consider changing Fire Punch to Stealth Rock on your Azelf, as this makes it a very competitive pick.
Haxorus, Azelf, Magnezone and Durant are the other choices. I can't see what Magnezone accomplishes, and Durant is very strong but can't switch in well on anything our opponent has (and won't be able to unless they choose something that's likely to spam physical attacks Durant resists), has to set up to be reliable, and doesn't fill any utility roles for our team. It's an extremely high-risk Pokemon, and though it has good reward, I don't see why we need to use such an all-or-nothing choice at this point.
Haxorus or another Choice Scarf Dragon is a good pick, as Dragons can revenge-kill Garchomp and also take Rotom-W's attacks comfortably. Azelf isn't too bad but I would prefer some extra utility with that set.
This Azelf still hits the whole opposing team hard, especially Garchomp and Terrakion, while also filling our SR slot. It doesn't need Focus Sash much because it hits every one of our opponent's Pokemon for good damage and isn't OHKOed by Zapdos without prior damage, while almost always avoiding the kill from Rotom-W. Fire Punch isn't that useful against the opposing team, and we already have U-turn to get away from would-be counters, while Stealth Rock has enormous utility.
Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- U-turn
- Fire Punch Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt
So Drako, consider changing Fire Punch to Stealth Rock on your Azelf, as this makes it a very competitive pick.
Speaking of Azelf...
I'm really liking the idea of Azelf right now. However, I think it needs to be changed into a special attacking SR set. Hitting on the special spectrum is important because Garchomp's Rough Skin could be used to wear down Azelf faster than normal. (which puts a bit more emphasis on prediction) This'll also let you spam Psychic/Psyshock which reduces the need for an ice type coverage move. Being able to set SR justifies his selection as he provides a key support that Team 1 is now in current need of. Overall, it sort of serves a "fight fire with fire" approach to Garchomp in that it to is an offensive SR setter however, it has Levitate which means it "walls" any Garchomp that is reluctant to use Outrage. This'll be a good way to use Garchomp for free turns or to force it to trade its life in for Azelf's.
I'm really liking the idea of Azelf right now. However, I think it needs to be changed into a special attacking SR set. Hitting on the special spectrum is important because Garchomp's Rough Skin could be used to wear down Azelf faster than normal. (which puts a bit more emphasis on prediction) This'll also let you spam Psychic/Psyshock which reduces the need for an ice type coverage move. Being able to set SR justifies his selection as he provides a key support that Team 1 is now in current need of. Overall, it sort of serves a "fight fire with fire" approach to Garchomp in that it to is an offensive SR setter however, it has Levitate which means it "walls" any Garchomp that is reluctant to use Outrage. This'll be a good way to use Garchomp for free turns or to force it to trade its life in for Azelf's.
What about a mixed set with Psychic/Fire Blast/Ice Punch/Stealth Rock, 4 Attack EVs and a Hasty nature? This guarantees an OHKO on Garchomp, not even letting it set up Stealth Rock, 2HKOs Zapdos 7/8 of the time with Ice Punch, and demolishes stuff with Psychic and it's 90 (as opposed to 80 for Psyshock) BP, while still usually avoiding the OHKO from Rotom-W at full health. Fire Blast is useful against shit like Ferrothorn and Skarmory. U-turn could also be a good idea but right now I'm not a big fan.
Firstly, in responses to the Magnezone set, I'd like to point out that Magnezone already has T-Bolt to deal with Skarmory so it doesn't need HP Fire for Skarmory.
HP Ice hits Garchomp hard and Magnezone can take Outrages all day long.
Secondly, on questions re the Speed EVs: Magnezone isn't outspeeding much right now(save Reuniclus) with 60 base speed, so what's the point in wasting EVs on speed to get THAT much closer to a good speed? 252 HP allows it to take more hits, which is it's job.
Personally though, I like Azelf at this point. It seems the most balanced set right now.
HP Ice hits Garchomp hard and Magnezone can take Outrages all day long.
Secondly, on questions re the Speed EVs: Magnezone isn't outspeeding much right now(save Reuniclus) with 60 base speed, so what's the point in wasting EVs on speed to get THAT much closer to a good speed? 252 HP allows it to take more hits, which is it's job.
Personally though, I like Azelf at this point. It seems the most balanced set right now.
The reason I like Haxorus over other dragons at this point is due to its insanely high attack and Mold Breaker, and the fact that it isn't 4x-weak to anything (Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp) or weak to fighting or steel priority (Kyurem and Kyurem-B). Hydreigon and the Lati twins also rely on Draco Meteor that could end up as severe setup bait if Team 2 picks intelligently. I'd rather die locked into Outrage than leave myself victim to a sweep because I crippled myself with Draco Meteor or a choice-locked Earthquake without Mold Breaker.
Haxorus gives us enough speed unless Team 2 picks an even faster scarfer (which means less power, which they can't necessarily afford against Team 1's defense and use of paralysis) while maintaining tremendous power to just steamroll over an even barely weakened Team 2. Sure, SDef Skarmory might be able to take some Outrages and cause some problems, but it's not like Haxorus wouldn't still demolish the rest of the team as currently constructed. We say we don't want Skarmory to "wall" 4/6ths of our team, but as of right now, Haxorus would beat 4/6ths of Team 2, as well, and force Team 2 heavily defensive without being able to rely on Levitate. Haxorus literally rips through Team 2 with a single move while not fearing being locked into said move at this current time. It doesn't need setup, it doesn't need support, and it operates as a revenge killer and cleaner. It can switch into the Volt Switches from Team 2 without worry and fears nothing from Rotom-W, and can even switch into 3 of Zapdos' 4 moves, while still being able to beat Zapdos after Stealth Rock in most situations even if it DOES switch into HP Ice. It can even take Terrakion's Stone Edge to the face if it absolutely had to. It isn't weak to Stealth Rock like Mence or Nite, either.
Haxorus gives us enough speed unless Team 2 picks an even faster scarfer (which means less power, which they can't necessarily afford against Team 1's defense and use of paralysis) while maintaining tremendous power to just steamroll over an even barely weakened Team 2. Sure, SDef Skarmory might be able to take some Outrages and cause some problems, but it's not like Haxorus wouldn't still demolish the rest of the team as currently constructed. We say we don't want Skarmory to "wall" 4/6ths of our team, but as of right now, Haxorus would beat 4/6ths of Team 2, as well, and force Team 2 heavily defensive without being able to rely on Levitate. Haxorus literally rips through Team 2 with a single move while not fearing being locked into said move at this current time. It doesn't need setup, it doesn't need support, and it operates as a revenge killer and cleaner. It can switch into the Volt Switches from Team 2 without worry and fears nothing from Rotom-W, and can even switch into 3 of Zapdos' 4 moves, while still being able to beat Zapdos after Stealth Rock in most situations even if it DOES switch into HP Ice. It can even take Terrakion's Stone Edge to the face if it absolutely had to. It isn't weak to Stealth Rock like Mence or Nite, either.
Yup, that makes sense. To me Fire Blast is very useful to deal with Ferrothorn, Stealth Rock is a fixture, and a Psychic attack is also needed. Since we won't have room for Ice Punch anymore, Psyshock looks crucial to get the likely 2HKO on Zapdos. As for U-turn versus Thunderbolt, the former gives us more momentum but the latter OHKOs Starmie unless they decide on a pitiful defensive variant, which Team 1 would be perfectly happy with. U-turn also allows Azelf to get worn down more easily by Garchomp. It's a tough call because momentum is pretty cool, but Thunderbolt is more reliable. Since this set is so different from Drako's, I'm just going to go ahead and nominate it:
Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt/Thunder
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock
Feel free to suggest changes, especially if you think U-turn is clearly superior to Thunderbolt. Also worth considering could be Grass Knot:
252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 252-299 (96.55 - 114.55%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
No need to have Hasty if U-Turn isn't there, just use Timid for now. U-Turn vs Tbolt vs GK is a tricky question. Ignoring Turn's utility, it gives Azelf a way to bite Ttar (probably not very hard though) as well as the Latitwins. TBolt means that Heatran isn't going to lol at Azelf. Not sure if there's anything special GK hits that would warrant it's use over one of the other options. (mind you these are just off the top of my head so they are by no means the entirety)
I'm not sure if Stealth Rock on Azelf is the best choice. It's really frail and pretty much gets OHKOd or severely crippled by everything Team 2 has, so I'm not sure when it has the time to set up rocks and still not lose the original purpose for its submission. Also, I wouldn't want an Azelf without Ice Punch since it can't OHKO chomp anymore which imo is really important. And it's not like the player for Team 2's team is gonna have an easy time at wearing down Azelf with rough skin. One wrong prediction and chomp is done for and Zen Headbutt does over half anyway depending on min max damage roles.
Also, specially defensive Heatran lols at special attacker Azelf's Thunderbolt anyway.
252 SpAtk Life Orb Azelf Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran (+SpDef) : 23,58% - 27,72% (5-6 hits to KO)
Edit: But if anyone can really convince me, I put Stealth Rock over Fire Punch. Thunderbolt is up to discussion as well because Skarm and stuff..
Also, specially defensive Heatran lols at special attacker Azelf's Thunderbolt anyway.
252 SpAtk Life Orb Azelf Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran (+SpDef) : 23,58% - 27,72% (5-6 hits to KO)
Edit: But if anyone can really convince me, I put Stealth Rock over Fire Punch. Thunderbolt is up to discussion as well because Skarm and stuff..
TCTphantom
formerly MX42
Azelf @ Choice Specs
252 Spa, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Timid Nature
-HP Ice
-Fire Blast
-Psyshock
-Grass Knot
Well, Azelf has been suggested, and decided to throw my own idea into the ring. Specszelf hits everything on Team 2 hard. It either OHKOs in the case of Terrakion and Chomp, or 2HKOs with Rotom W and Zapdosm making it a great revenge killer. Psyshock hits everything hard ATM, and is the prefered stab to pseudo go mixed. Fire Blast for steels, HP Ice for their Chomp. And Grass Knot. Normally, the best counter to Azelf is TTar, and a lot of people suggested HP Fighting. However, I feel for this CTP, Grass Knot is the better move, as it also threatens several Bulky Waters, meaning Team 2 cannot have good checks to future teamates we might suggest.
Oh, have some cals...
252 SpA Choice Specs Azelf Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 274-324 (67.82 - 80.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Azelf Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 418-492 (129.01 - 151.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Azelf Psychock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 418-492 (128.39 - 151.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Azelf Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 219-258 (57.03 - 67.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Azelf Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 180-213 (59.4 - 70.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So as one can see, this Azelf has no safe switchins.
I'd like to discuss each option suggested in turn:
Choice Scarf Haxorus: This set, as already stated before is setup bait for SpDef Skarmory, which is slightly disadvantageous considering Skarmory already walls half the team. However, at the same time it does have high offensive capability and can sweep the team if played correctly. Not a bad choice at all.
Insect Plate Durant: Honestly, I don't think Durant is a bad mon, but with 58/48 defenses(HP and Special Defense), it can't take most resisted stuff, let alone any neutral stuff(example is Venomoth who can OHKO with Bug Buzz despite resist). On the plus side, IF it manages to set up, it has one of THE HIGHEST ATTACK stats in the game and can sweep the opposing team ruthlessly.
Drako's Azelf: Personally my favorite at this point of time, Azelf seems like a good choice to me, with enough bulk to take a hit and good offensive power as well. The set itself is really balanced and is a really good choice here.
Leftovers Magnezone: The positives are that it can tank Outrage from Garchomp all day long and OHKO with HP Ice. It also has good STAB in Thunderbolt and can take on Skarmory any day. The disadvantage is that it loses coverage vs steel types like Scizor without HP Fire and is quite slow.
Focus Sash Terrakion: How exactly does this counter Garchomp or Rotom-W? That's what we should be aiming for so no, I'm not too keen on this mon. Agreed, it does have the positive of offering fighting type coverage and also has stone edge which is an advantage. However, at the same time it has chances of being OHKOed by Garchomp on the switch with Outrage as well as Earthquake meaning it is set up bait for Garchomp to SD and sweep
Choice Specs Azelf: Won't say much as similar to Life Orb Set of Drako but prefer that because a locked Azelf can't do much in terms of coverage whereas LO at the cost of HP can maintain versatility in terms of coverage
Relaunched's Azelf: Again, I believe this is inferior to the LO set of Drako because Garchomp can easily deal with the set and the set has no Ice coverage to hit Garchomp or Zapdos.
Choice Scarf Haxorus: This set, as already stated before is setup bait for SpDef Skarmory, which is slightly disadvantageous considering Skarmory already walls half the team. However, at the same time it does have high offensive capability and can sweep the team if played correctly. Not a bad choice at all.
Insect Plate Durant: Honestly, I don't think Durant is a bad mon, but with 58/48 defenses(HP and Special Defense), it can't take most resisted stuff, let alone any neutral stuff(example is Venomoth who can OHKO with Bug Buzz despite resist). On the plus side, IF it manages to set up, it has one of THE HIGHEST ATTACK stats in the game and can sweep the opposing team ruthlessly.
Drako's Azelf: Personally my favorite at this point of time, Azelf seems like a good choice to me, with enough bulk to take a hit and good offensive power as well. The set itself is really balanced and is a really good choice here.
Leftovers Magnezone: The positives are that it can tank Outrage from Garchomp all day long and OHKO with HP Ice. It also has good STAB in Thunderbolt and can take on Skarmory any day. The disadvantage is that it loses coverage vs steel types like Scizor without HP Fire and is quite slow.
Focus Sash Terrakion: How exactly does this counter Garchomp or Rotom-W? That's what we should be aiming for so no, I'm not too keen on this mon. Agreed, it does have the positive of offering fighting type coverage and also has stone edge which is an advantage. However, at the same time it has chances of being OHKOed by Garchomp on the switch with Outrage as well as Earthquake meaning it is set up bait for Garchomp to SD and sweep
Choice Specs Azelf: Won't say much as similar to Life Orb Set of Drako but prefer that because a locked Azelf can't do much in terms of coverage whereas LO at the cost of HP can maintain versatility in terms of coverage
Relaunched's Azelf: Again, I believe this is inferior to the LO set of Drako because Garchomp can easily deal with the set and the set has no Ice coverage to hit Garchomp or Zapdos.
There really shouldn't be another special attacker, otherwise we become very weak to Blissey or Chansey. I think we have to pick a physical attacker at this point for Team 1. Also, I noticed that the other team has a noticeable weakness to Grass and Ice moves. My first thought was of course Abomasnow, but he is way too slow, even with a sarf. A scarf user and/or a SR setter have been requested, and the choice I have made fulfills one of them:
Gallade@Choice Scarf
EV's: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
Trait: Justified
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch
-Leaf Blade
-Stone edge
Gallade provides the scarf that everyone wants, the power to punch holes through Team 2, and the Ice/Grass attacking combo. Close Combat for powerful STAB, Ice Punch defends against Dragons, Leaf Blade hits Jellicent, who would otherwise completely wall him. The forth move I still aren't sure about, between Earthquake or Stone edge to hit Victini, who would also have a field day on Gallade. Earthquake isn't the best move to get locked into, but Stone Edge isn't the most reliable move either. I feel like I might go with Stone Edge because it gives us an alternate move to hit Zapdos with.
When it comes to it's abilities, I went with Justified since I don't see Gallade getting outsped anytime soon. The EV's with an adamant nature are manufactured to give Gallade the most power possible. Here are some calcs:
252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 458-540 (141.35 - 166.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Gallade Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 268-316 (69.79 - 82.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 202-238 (52.6 - 61.97%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 198-234 (65.34 - 77.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 198-234 (65.34 - 77.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 364-432 (101.67 - 120.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Here are some other calcs on pokes that could have been chosen to deal with Gallade:
252+ Atk Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 196-232 (48.63 - 57.56%) -- 50.78% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Stone Edge vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 254-300 (91.03 - 107.52%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Gallade Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 234-276 (68.62 - 80.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So there you have it. Now before people jump down my throat and claim I "missed some calcs", obviously Gallade can't take a physical hit which is why he gets OHKO'D by Garchomp's Outrage. He can, however, take any hit from Terrakion at least once since he resists both of it's STAB's. Its good special bulk helps deal with Zapdos and Rotom-W just fine, too.
Anyway, there's my submission. Any opinions?
Gallade@Choice Scarf
EV's: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
Trait: Justified
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch
-Leaf Blade
-Stone edge
Gallade provides the scarf that everyone wants, the power to punch holes through Team 2, and the Ice/Grass attacking combo. Close Combat for powerful STAB, Ice Punch defends against Dragons, Leaf Blade hits Jellicent, who would otherwise completely wall him. The forth move I still aren't sure about, between Earthquake or Stone edge to hit Victini, who would also have a field day on Gallade. Earthquake isn't the best move to get locked into, but Stone Edge isn't the most reliable move either. I feel like I might go with Stone Edge because it gives us an alternate move to hit Zapdos with.
When it comes to it's abilities, I went with Justified since I don't see Gallade getting outsped anytime soon. The EV's with an adamant nature are manufactured to give Gallade the most power possible. Here are some calcs:
252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 458-540 (141.35 - 166.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Gallade Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 268-316 (69.79 - 82.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 202-238 (52.6 - 61.97%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 198-234 (65.34 - 77.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 198-234 (65.34 - 77.22%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 364-432 (101.67 - 120.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Here are some other calcs on pokes that could have been chosen to deal with Gallade:
252+ Atk Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 196-232 (48.63 - 57.56%) -- 50.78% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Stone Edge vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 254-300 (91.03 - 107.52%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Gallade Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 234-276 (68.62 - 80.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So there you have it. Now before people jump down my throat and claim I "missed some calcs", obviously Gallade can't take a physical hit which is why he gets OHKO'D by Garchomp's Outrage. He can, however, take any hit from Terrakion at least once since he resists both of it's STAB's. Its good special bulk helps deal with Zapdos and Rotom-W just fine, too.
Anyway, there's my submission. Any opinions?
What does Gallade have over Medicham? Ok, it's more bulky on the special side (still it won't last that much thanks to no reliable recovery), but it actually takes physical hits worse, and cannot even come close to Medicham's power (example: 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 268-316 (88.44 - 104.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock). Not saying I like the idea, but I'd like to know the reasons behind your choice anyway.
In addition to what ganj4lF said, what does Gallade offer us over Terrakion as a Scarfer? Sure, you get improved special bulk (whatever), the ability to hit Jelli super effectively with Leaf Blade (lol) at the cost of a much better dual STAB and far better speed (with your set, we can't even revenge Dragonite).
e: I guess you get a stronger hit on Garchomp. Still, 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 204-241 (56.98 - 67.31%). That's a kill most of the time after SR and 3 rounds of LO damage. Something to think about. We could even run Adamant Terrak which gets us 252+ Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 223-264 (62.29 - 73.74%), and it would still outspeed +1 Dnite, Gyara, etc.
e: I guess you get a stronger hit on Garchomp. Still, 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 204-241 (56.98 - 67.31%). That's a kill most of the time after SR and 3 rounds of LO damage. Something to think about. We could even run Adamant Terrak which gets us 252+ Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 223-264 (62.29 - 73.74%), and it would still outspeed +1 Dnite, Gyara, etc.
What? Does this even count as an argument? A Terrakion can't switch into garchomp. I kinda knew that before you pointed it out. It is meant as a poke that can sweep team 2 ATM at +2 while also setting up rocks. It is not ment to switch into chomp but can chomp switch into it. It has a focus sash too so it can easily beat rotom-W one on one. It can tank terrakions moves to use against slowbro too. Also plz stop commenting on how venomoth kos it as first it has tinted lens and secondly it is very rarely used.
It has a focus sash... their last choice has Stealth Rock so chances are that sash is already broken leaving Rotom-W free to OHKO.
Also, just a question here. Which Pokemon on Team 2 is Terrakion supposed to switch into anyway? That CB Terrakion will KO with Close Combat(even if sash isn't broken Terrakion will be OHKOd next turn and if sash is broken no question).
Garchomp is self-explanatory. Rotom-W will KO the next turn while Terrakion CANNOT OHKO Rotom-W, so Rotom-W wins there as well. Zapdos? It can always Volt Switch to Garchomp and Terrakion is once again gone.
This is exactly why my comment was valid - it needs to be able to switch in to a pokemon on team 2, take a hit and OHKO back, which it doesn't.
More importantly though, this is what could happen if we select Terrakion:
Team 2 selects LO Scizor(fairly good chance, since it forms Volt Turn and counters Garchomp's checks)
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 307-361 (95.04 - 111.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
This means that Terrakion can't even switch in because:a) It doesn't OHKO Scizor so Scizor can switch in at any point and b) Scizor then OHKOes it
As a further result, we can't even select Azelf as a counterpick because Scizor counters it.
I'm not criticizing the set as such, rather I'm criticizing the viability of the set in the current context.
Why not Scarf Kyurem-B for the slot. Scarf allows him to outspeed every member of Team 2 and he can just click Outrage seeing as Team 2 does not have a Steel type. Makes for a nice revenge killer or a late game cleaner if the opposing team takes some prior damage. It does open up a hole for Team 2 to pick a faster Scarfer but Kyurem-B does have great bulk in itself to be able to take a hit.
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
Scarf Kyurem-B versus Haxorus is an interesting comparison. Kyurem-B can tank general hits better and hit things harder, but it also has a greater weakness to Stealth Rock and Mach/Bullet Punch than the latter. It's a cool choice but I'm not really inclined towards "Stealth Rock weak Scarfer" as a pick, especially since Team 1 probably can't viably choose a Rapid Spinner in pick five or six.
Right now picking Azelf without Stealth Rock is a bad idea. We need a Stealth Rock user in pick 4 or pick 5, because it isn't that hard for team 2 to pressure every possible Stealth Rock user in picks 5/6. Since Azelf can learn Stealth Rock, there's no good reason not to give it Stealth Rock. The extra coverage move just doesn't do enough for it when compared to the utility of Stealth Rock. If we just want to pick something with four attacks, we can do better than Azelf. For instance, Alakazam, or even better a Scarfed Dragon, which provides us an important role of revenge killer.
Right now picking Azelf without Stealth Rock is a bad idea. We need a Stealth Rock user in pick 4 or pick 5, because it isn't that hard for team 2 to pressure every possible Stealth Rock user in picks 5/6. Since Azelf can learn Stealth Rock, there's no good reason not to give it Stealth Rock. The extra coverage move just doesn't do enough for it when compared to the utility of Stealth Rock. If we just want to pick something with four attacks, we can do better than Azelf. For instance, Alakazam, or even better a Scarfed Dragon, which provides us an important role of revenge killer.
I considered Kyurem-B, but again, the weakness to Stealth Rock as well as vulnerability to priority makes me favor Haxorus ever so slightly. Scizor's Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch are real threats, and even with Kyurem-B's bulk, it can't really take them very well. It's vulnerable to every type of hazard.
Also, why Adamant if you're using Ice Beam? Sure, you preserve your bulk... but what exactly is Ice Beam killing coming from a weakened special attack stat?
Overall, though, I like a Scarf Dragon in general, and wouldn't be completely averse to it.
This pokemon isn't designed to switch in or it wouldn't have a sash. You could also have asked which poke chomp was goin to come in on and it doesn't. Terrakion is a great lead as it can cripple a poke and they get no rocks and we do or kill a poke and both teams get rocks. We can switch in on chomp's rocks or sd then sd as chomp takes us to our sash and then ko something with cc and at worst taking a double down with chomp. Since when can chomp set up an sd on it because it dies. We won't let chomp get 2 free turns and therefore he can't be at +2 with rocks up. Terrakion can force a switch and then live an attack using its sash and those are 2 set up turns. Zapdos will rarely vile switch because if we volt switch and we stone edge then Landorus can do a lot better. This poke also has its weaknesses resisted by other pokes and gliscor, Landorus-T and Golurk dont like our Landorus at all. Scizor can't stop a +2 sweep thx to sash. We can only assume rocks will be up of melee Mewtwo is the battler (did a great job last time) because of the pressure that is put on and the difficulty of allowing pokes free turns. Stealth rock is still vital to have though and Terrakion can be both, stealth rock and cripple the poke or as a sweaper and how many other pokes can put on so much pressure while packing rocks.
LilOu
PO poopyhead
Ice Beam is filler anyways...It just works for things like Lando-T / Gliscor that you can hit supereffectively.
0SpAtk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (-SAtk) Ice Beam vs 252HP/0SpDef Landorus Therian (Neutral): 135% - 160% (516 - 612 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
0SpAtk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem Black (-SAtk) Ice Beam vs 252HP/0SpDef Gliscor (Neutral): 153% - 183% (544 - 648 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.