Theorymon Sessions

[Othesemo]

Dusknoir doesn't really seem that impressive to me. It's a lot slower so it's more vulnerable to status, it can't heal status like Misdreavus so Toxic will wear it down eventually, and it can't boost. Its main advantages are probably Leftovers, Shadow Sneak and Earthquake.

It's also missing levitate, so it's vulnerable to spikes and t-spikes, unlike Missy.

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Alright, I've got a question that's been bouncing around my mind for a while. What if there existed a parallel to the Flame Orb and Toxic Orb which caused paralysis?

Like the other status orbs, I imagine it would be exclusively seen on status sweepers (I suppose that Limber Lopunny could also use it with switcheroo, but eh). Obviously, it'd be horrible for Swellow, who relies on its fantastic speed tier to function, but what about Ursaring? Ursaring actually has respectable bulk, and without toxic/flame orb eating away at it, it could gain a lot more longevity. It might see use on bulky Guts sets, as long as the user is alright with being outsped by Munchlax. What's interesting, though, is that Quick Feet negates the speed drop from paralysis, meaning that you'd end up with a sweeper capable of outspeeding Timid/Jolly Charizard, while still packing 130 base attack and a 140 bp STAB move- all without having to lose a non-negligible portion of your health every turn. The downside of this, of course, is that there'd still be the ever present risk of full paralysis, which would necessarily happen at the worst of all possible times.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

What if Regirock received Solid Rock from the Dream world?
Regirock isnt OHKOed by much anyways, so sturdy isn't important. With Solid Rock, there isnt much that can downright OHKO Regirock, helping it be the best Physical wall in the tier.

 

[jake]

It's also missing levitate, so it's vulnerable to spikes and t-spikes, unlike Missy.

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Alright, I've got a question that's been bouncing around my mind for a while. What if there existed a parallel to the Flame Orb and Toxic Orb which caused paralysis?

Like the other status orbs, I imagine it would be exclusively seen on status sweepers (I suppose that Limber Lopunny could also use it with switcheroo, but eh). Obviously, it'd be horrible for Swellow, who relies on its fantastic speed tier to function, but what about Ursaring? Ursaring actually has respectable bulk, and without toxic/flame orb eating away at it, it could gain a lot more longevity. It might see use on bulky Guts sets, as long as the user is alright with being outsped by Munchlax. What's interesting, though, is that Quick Feet negates the speed drop from paralysis, meaning that you'd end up with a sweeper capable of outspeeding Timid/Jolly Charizard, while still packing 130 base attack and a 140 bp STAB move- all without having to lose a non-negligible portion of your health every turn. The downside of this, of course, is that there'd still be the ever present risk of full paralysis, which would necessarily happen at the worst of all possible times.

I don't think this would be really very optimal for any Pokemon (except Quick Feet Scolipede, but Swarm is vastly superior). Even Pokemon like Ursaring that wouldn't mind the ~slowness~ would actually very much mind the 25% chance of doing absolutely nothing on your turn. I'd much rather have a slight drop in HP every turn rather than risk doing nothing on my turn and getting outright OHKOed because Ursaring or whatever was helpless that turn.

While the damage from burn / poison is kinda annoying, it pales in comparison to the risk of full paralysis. Unless there is a new ability introduced that cuts the risk of full para (but still keeps the speed cut in order to be balanced), I don't think there'd be any reason at all to use a paralysis Orb over one of the other two.

 

[Infernis]

It would actually make for a decent item on Mightyena, if you can somehow nab some Howl boosts at the same time. Then again, Moxie sets would still outclass it for most Mightyena users. (They exist, right?)

 

[vyomov]

OK, I think this is super-cool.
What if Spike Cannon, for each time it hits(not more than 3 though) sets up a layer of Spikes?
Firstly, Corsola would see WAY more usage. Imagine being able to attack and at the same time set up Spikes. Taunt would be completely useless because the Spike Cannon is an attacking move.
Scolipede would decrease big time in usage because it would lose it's niche as the best spike user to Corsola.
Rapid spinners would be a must on every team. Users of attacks like Double Kick would rise in usage as they could break Corsola's Focus Sash and ensure it doesn't set up spikes.

 

[Othesemo]

OK, I think this is super-cool.
What if Spike Cannon, for each time it hits(not more than 3 though) sets up a layer of Spikes?
Firstly, Corsola would see WAY more usage. Imagine being able to attack and at the same time set up Spikes. Taunt would be completely useless because the Spike Cannon is an attacking move.
Scolipede would decrease big time in usage because it would lose it's niche as the best spike user to Corsola.
Rapid spinners would be a must on every team. Users of attacks like Double Kick would rise in usage as they could break Corsola's Focus Sash and ensure it doesn't set up spikes.

Being a normal type move, Spike Cannon is ineffective against Ghosts, giving them the dubious honor of being the best counter to Corsola. It's also worth mentioning that the most popular ghost- Golurk- does massive damage to Corsola with earthquake, netting a 1HKO on Corsola not invested in defense, and still dealing ~90% to those with maximum investment. While misdreavus can't do much to Corsola, the situation is mutual- Scald is a possible 6HKO.

So, I imagine that Golurk and Missy would both rise somewhat in usage (as if they needed the help). Of course, Corsola is otherwise a complete waste of a team slot, so I imagine that a fair number of people would still be using Scolipede for its ability to not be utterly useless once spikes are up. It's an interesting thought, though.

 

[Axelotl]

What if Haunter got Nasty Plot?

Haunter definately looks like it could be devising a Nasty Plot. I got the idea from Sketchmons, where someone was talking about Nasty Plot Gengar.

Sub + Nasty Plot could be a really dangerous set on Haunter, as a sub allows it to avoid priority attacks, particularly from Skuntank. Sub + NP Haunter vs. Skuntank could lead to some ridiculous mindgames though. Sub + NP Haunter would also be able to do some massive damage to Lickilicky, 2HKOing with HP Fighting and a Timid nature.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 273-322 (64.38 - 75.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The problem with Haunter is it's dificult to set up with it, because it's so insanely frail. If you manage to get 2 NP's up, however, you should be able to do some work. +4 Timid LO Haunter OHKO's Lickilicky after SR 100% of the time.

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 408-481 (96.22 - 113.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

NP Haunter's main checks would likely be offensive priority users (though not Sucker Punch; as stated in the example above, it'll only lead to mindgames and isn't really a safe way to deal with it). However, Haunter's Ghost typing limits this to Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, and Ice Shard. Carracosta, Samurott, Metang, and Piloswine would probably rise in usage as these provide a way to deal with Haunter as long as it subs/NP's on the switch. Metang and Piloswine must also watch out for HP Ground and HP Fighting, respectively.

 

[Axa]

What if Machoke got Drain Punch?

First off, it's baffling why he can't.

Next, the obvious question is how he stacks up against Gurdurr. Gurdurr has slightly better Attack and a bit more physical bulk, while Machoke is very slightly faster and specially bulky. Gurdurr will most likely be using Guts, and it has Mach Punch, while Machoke has the option of Guts or the No Guard-Dynamicpunch combo, but it has to resort to Bullet Punch for priority.

 

[vyomov]

Well, Machoke would still be pretty slow so wouldn't make TOO much difference but yeah, might make it a little more viable.

 

[Konata Test]

What if Haunter got Nasty Plot?

Haunter definately looks like it could be devising a Nasty Plot. I got the idea from Sketchmons, where someone was talking about Nasty Plot Gengar.

Sub + Nasty Plot could be a really dangerous set on Haunter, as a sub allows it to avoid priority attacks, particularly from Skuntank. Sub + NP Haunter vs. Skuntank could lead to some ridiculous mindgames though. Sub + NP Haunter would also be able to do some massive damage to Lickilicky, 2HKOing with HP Fighting and a Timid nature.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 273-322 (64.38 - 75.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The problem with Haunter is it's dificult to set up with it, because it's so insanely frail. If you manage to get 2 NP's up, however, you should be able to do some work. +4 Timid LO Haunter OHKO's Lickilicky after SR 100% of the time.

+4 252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 408-481 (96.22 - 113.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

NP Haunter's main checks would likely be offensive priority users (though not Sucker Punch; as stated in the example above, it'll only lead to mindgames and isn't really a safe way to deal with it). However, Haunter's Ghost typing limits this to Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, and Ice Shard. Carracosta, Samurott, Metang, and Piloswine would probably rise in usage as these provide a way to deal with Haunter as long as it subs/NP's on the switch. Metang and Piloswine must also watch out for HP Ground and HP Fighting, respectively.

Axelote, NP Haunter could definitely be a legitimate threat, but being frail sorta hampers your setup chances. Skuntank usually has taunt to get past sub and nasty plot, and that can be troubling, also that being said, it needs to be wary against prankster encore users, either volbeat, or the infamous swagger liepard has it. All in all a great addition to it's movepool if it were to exist.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

What if Octillery got No Guard?
Octillery is based off of a turret, and turrets have good accuracy, so wynaut? Octillery has Access to Blizzard, Gunk Shot, and Fire Blast (why does he not get hydro pump), so No Guard could work very well on him.

 

[Punchshroom]

Actually, Octillery does get Hydro Pump via level up in B2W2 (about time), but what Octillery wants is not the luxury to use stronger moves, but the ability to outspeed things so that its low defenses are not easily exploited. Seeing as Remoraid is pretty fast and looks like it could learn Agility (don't know why Goldeen can :P), how about "What if Octillery got Agility?".

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

Agility Octillery would be fantastic. Although using a setup move basically says no to one of the strongest Water Spouts in the game, Octillerys massive move pool provides good coverage.
Here's another: What if Swoobat got Baton Pass?

 

[Leafshield]

Swoobat getting Baton Pass would be a huge, huge boon to dedicated BP teams, and even single pass teams. With Swoobat's ability to achieve + 2 in both Special Attack and Special Defense in a single turn, previously not-so-powerful special attackers like Grumpig and Camerupt would see plenty more use. It also gives Swoobat a niche over Ninjask, being able to run a Focus Sash set, but still being able to hit pretty damn hard after a single turn of boosting to +2, something that Ninjask can't necessarily boast all the time. All in all, I think Golem would become more popular, as well as Piloswine, with access to multi-hitting STAB and, in Pilo's case, STAB priority that hits Swoobat Super-Effectively.

 

[NfskMjmMal]

http://www.smogon.com/bw/abilities/simple

Simple

Description

All stat changes applied to the wielder are doubled. Set boosts (such as those received by Baton Pass or copied via Psych Up) are not doubled.

:(

 

[Leafshield]

http://www.smogon.com/bw/abilities/simple



:(

Oh...

Well that's kinda shitty.

 

[shadowpandax]

I thought Simple gives you the doubled boosts that can be passed through Baton pass, but the Simple user cannot receive doubled boosts from a Baton Pass (like Ninjask gets one speed boost, and when passed over it gives your Simple user 1 speed boost instead of 2)

 

[jake]

I thought Simple gives you the boosts that the user of Simple gets and can be passed through Baton pass, but the Simple user cannot receive doubled boosts from a Baton Pass (like Ninjask)

that's.. exactly what it says

swoobat will still have its inherent flaws (ie still being weak as hell and 2HKOed by most attacks even after the boost) but since it's so fast, being able to pass +2/+2 to anything would be really phenomenal. you could BP out of skuntank / whatever they use to deal with it and go right into something like charizard. pokemon like tangela and alomomola would become a major liability because suddenly swoobat can come in and boost once then bp to something fast and destructive, and since it has access to roost too it can be reliable enough to do this consistently.

i dunno, it'd be really good i think but not so much that it'd be impossible to deal with

 

[NfskMjmMal]

Surprised none of these have been mentioned already.

RU April Stats

57 | Klinklang | 3.30462%
58 | Alomomola | 3.14258%
59 | Mandibuzz | 3.06274%

(Threshold is 3.41% for anyone who doesn't know.)

So obviously,

What if Klingklang dropped to NU?

What if Alomomola rose to RU?

What if Mandibuzz dropped to NU?

Will add my thoughts later.

 

[vyomov]

Alomomola rising to RU would mean physical attackers like Hustle Zweilous would run rampant, while surprisingly Regirock would see more usage just to beat these attackers.
Klinklang would mean haze and taunt mons would be more common to prevent it Shifting Gear and sweeping.
Mandibuzz is actually a REALLY good mon, it would help wall some of the common threats like Golurk(immune to Earth and resist on Ghost)

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Baton Pass Swoobat

Baton Pass Swoobat would become a huge threat, being able to boost up, attack with Stored Power, and Baton Pass once threatened. This also allows it to avoid Sucker Punch mindgames (Skuntank no longer checks it) and pass to something else. The only problem is its fraility meaning that it is easily destroyed by priority and Rock Blast, which is becoming increasingly common to check Jynx and Scolipede, and the fact that most SR leads have access to it or Icicle Spear in the case of Piloswine. Still, it would be a great addition, especially with a Salac berry.

RU Drops/Rises

Alomomola rising to RU means that more physical walls such as Tangela and Regirock will become more common. Pokemon that used to be stopped cold by it, such as SD Samurott, will again become more common. In addition, Alomomola's wish passing roles will now be handed to Lickilicky who will become much more common.

Mandibuzz dropping would mean that there is now a decent counter to Scolipede. It can check much of the tier and phaze them out, and can also utilize Foul Play to hit back hard. However, its SR weakness and weakness to threats like Jynx means that its usefulness is hampered, but will give others like Lickilicky a run for their money. (Also, finally a wall that has reliable recovery apart from Wish, Rest and Synthesis)

Klinklang will become a major force in the tier. Shift Gear and Gear Grind makes an excellent counter to SubNP Jynx by coming in on any move and using it as setup fodder. The best counter to Klinklang is, ironically Klinklang, as they can't do much to one another. Heck, probably the best way to stop Klinklang is to prevent it from setting up in the first place with constant offensive pressure, since it is hard to stop after two boosts or so

 

[The NU Tuber]

All right, here's one: What if Charizard got Hurricane?

This could potentially be a huge boon to non-Sunny Day special sets, as Charizard usually has to rely on the rather weak Air Slash for a Flying STAB, and Hurricane's much bigger damage output can be game-changing. Zard could also have much more utility in the meta, specifically against rain, where he could easily OHKO Ludicolo with a Choice Scarf, never-miss-in-rain Hurricane (who would otherwise live an Air Slash). Hurricane could also help him break through Fire-resistant walls such as Alomomola without having to rely on Hidden Power. What do you guys think?

 

[Lasagne]

What if Klingklang dropped to NU?

What if Alomomola rose to RU?

What if Mandibuzz dropped to NU?

What if Klingklang dropped to NU?
Klinklang would be a MASSIVE threat, and things like Weezing and Alomomola would rise in usage to counter it, possibly pushing Alom into RU (leads onto below question). It could potentially be a very good late game sweeper once all its counters are taken out. This pokemon would have a huge impact on the metagame, and would very possibly rise back up to RU in the next tier changes.

What if Alomomola rose to RU?
WOW this would make so many pokemon so much better at sweeping. Sawk, Primeape and SD Samurott stand out as pokemon walled by Alomomola. These pokemon would definitely become a lot more popular and once again, this could cause some more pokemon to rise to RU, such as Sawk. This would possibly have the biggest impact of the 3 changes listed here, making many pokemon a lot better.

What if Mandibuzz dropped to NU?
Mandibuzz is a good physicall wall in RU already imo, and it could easily take Alomomola's place as the premier physical wall in NU, walling Primeape relatively well, though it would definitely take a lot from CB Sawk's Stone Edge or Ice Punch. Mandibuzz would become one of the best phazers in the tier, able to whirlwind out a lot of big threats that would be able to set up on it otherwise, even though it doesn't have pitiful attack stats. Mandibuzz would be a polar threat to Klinklang, a massive defensive threat instead of offensive.

 

[Raseri]

What if Klinklang dropped to NU?

Klinklang would be a great threat in NU just because of how much it can set up on. Most defensive Pokemon are complete fodder to Klinklang because of its great typing and solid defensive stats. If Klinklang did drop, HP Fire would become the norm on defensive pokemon like Tangela, Roselia and the like. Interestingly, this would make Flying-types great partners for Klinklang, as they don't have to worry about HP Ice or Rock anymore. Charizard in particular would work great with Klinklang, due to its ability to take on things like Misdreavus and Weezing. Klinklang would be a major player in NU.


What if Alomomola rose to RU?
We lose our only good bulky water, so physical attackers will go on a rampage! Physical defense will fall onto Tangela, so instead of Grass-types being great because they can get past Alomomola, Fire-types will be the new underrated type in NU. SD Zard will get even better without Mola. SD Samurott will become even more amazing than it is now, because +2 Adamant LO Megahorn can OHKO Tangela after hazards I think. Kangaskhan will become absolutely ridiculous, without a nice sponge for its attacks it becomes even harder to stop. The lose of Alomomola would be pretty rough on NU, it is a major balancing force that keeps physical attackers in check.

 

[vyomov]

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 273-322 (81.98 - 96.69%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So while not guaranteed there's a fairly decent chance chance: or so it seems.
However, take this into account:0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 218-258 (65.86 - 77.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So that means that Tangela can heal off the damage from hazards while Samurott sets up, meaning there is no chance to OHKO while Tangela then OHKOes again with Giga Drain.

On the other hand, Scarf Glaceon could rise in popularity: it OHKOes:
248 SpA Glaceon Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 522-614 (156.75 - 184.38%) -- guaranteed OHKO