OU Stats (Now with 1850 Stats!) - April 2013

[Gary]

A lot of people fail to realize that, ElectivireRocks, which is a damn shame. This metagame is so damn offensive and fast paced that a lot of players don't really want to take Kyurem-B's other unique attributes into consideration. Instead, they say, "Oh look at that 170 base attack! Imma slap a Scarf or Band on it". Then people realize that they'd rather use CB D-Nite or Chomp for more coverage, and thus, leads to less usage of Cube. Sure, the CS and CB set are both great late-game, but the lack of any usefulness outside of spamming Outrage and occasionally Fusion Bolt just isn't very useful. On the other hand, Kyurem-B's Mixed set, Sub +3 attacks, and even the Hone Claws phazing set is quite fantastic. It seems like the only players that really use Kyurem-B, are noobies who only care about power, or well-experienced players who know how to take advantage of Kyurem-B's fantastic bulk and mixed capabilities. It's quite sad actually. At least Kyurem-B is used a LOT more on PS then PO. Also, Keldeo is in the 40s usage wise on PO. That's crazy! Looks like they still haven't gotten the memo yet on Keldeo's immense versatility in and out of rain.

 

[ElectivireRocks]

I think the reason behind Kyurem-B's lack of usage is that it got a decidedly bad first impression from the complete joke its suspect test was: not only was Genesect still around so everyone was focused on that damn thing, but people were mindlessly slapping a Choice Band onto him and clicking Outrage, only to be walled by some steel type and either KO'd or forced out.
However I can't really blame them for that when you look at Kyurem-B's set on its analysis page: most of them have weird EV spreads and some of its sets are rather counter-intuitive to someone who instantly sees "STAB Outrage from 170 base attack", so back then nobody really knew its real potential.
It's still outregeaous that it fell to UU on PO, though.

Luckily things are getting much better now and people have begun to realize that Kyu-B shouldn't be played as a poor man's Haxorus, but as a bulky mixed attacker.
Choice Band and Scarf sets are not bad, but other dragons are better for this.

 

[Turnstoash]

Metagross in sun with thunderpunch is actually a really good counter to rain teams I've found. It deals pretty easily with starmie, keldeo, gyarados, and tentacruel(pretending scald doesn't have a 100% burn chance). It also makes pursuiting the lati's easier because they're less likely to run hp fire in the rain. As a bonus, a lot of people will switch in to politoed to get rid of the sun and eat a thunder punch, making it a lot easier to win the weather war.

 

[HabibsHotDogs]

Also, Keldeo is in the 40s usage wise on PO. That's crazy! Looks like they still haven't gotten the memo yet on Keldeo's immense versatility in and out of rain.

You seem to have forgotten Tornadus-T is unbanned there, PS had Keldeo around the same rank during the big bird era, at least on PO people have the courtesy to use Torn-T a lot less, when big bird was big here.. I would see it in every other match if not more often!

As far as Metagross with thunderpunch, its counter-intuitive to use an intimidate proof pokemon and also a Gliscor lure with thunderpunch because of Landorus and Gliscor, Zen headbutt still 2hkoes gyarados and ohkoes Keldeo and some tentacruel, as far as starmie goes, you can find another way to beat it because on rain, unless metagross is scarfed, starmie will outspeed :)

Finally on Kyurem-B and its choiced sets, they are decent sets, I think Electivirerocks fails to properly appreciate the fact that kyube punches holes a lot more efficiently than other banded dragons simply because it can 2hko some steels with outrage and a band (such as heatran) and can take hits that haxorus can not and outspeeding threats an adamant dragonite can not, The scarf set is decent but being the slowest scarfer in OU is not a good thing. The power difference between haxorus and kyube is also significant enough to warrant kyube being a better bander (I've used both on a tailwind team and the only advantage haxorus has is that it can take priority hits after SR).

 

[ZandgaiaX]

At least Kyurem-B is used a LOT more on PS then PO. Also, Keldeo is in the 40s usage wise on PO. That's crazy! Looks like they still haven't gotten the memo yet on Keldeo's immense versatility in and out of rain.

Have you seen the usage stat differences? I mean sheesh: Dragonite is bloody fourth!

http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/Wifi OU/index.html

 

[ElectivireRocks]

You seem to have forgotten Tornadus-T is unbanned there, PS had Keldeo around the same rank during the big bird era, at least on PO people have the courtesy to use Torn-T a lot less, when big bird was big here.. I would see it in every other match if not more often!

Tornadus-T is used even less than Keldeo on PO.
And actually, it's banned now.

Finally on Kyurem-B and its choiced sets, they are decent sets, I think Electivirerocks fails to properly appreciate the fact that kyube punches holes a lot more efficiently than other banded dragons simply because it can 2hko some steels with outrage and a band (such as heatran) and can take hits that haxorus can not and outspeeding threats an adamant dragonite can not, The scarf set is decent but being the slowest scarfer in OU is not a good thing. The power difference between haxorus and kyube is also significant enough to warrant kyube being a better bander (I've used both on a tailwind team and the only advantage haxorus has is that it can take priority hits after SR).

I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. While both Haxorus and Kyu-B have unpredictability on their side (Haxorus could be running a boosting set, while Kyu-B could be running a bulky set), Kyu-B has more "safe" initial switch-ins than Haxorus.
Haxorus only need Superpower and Outrage to threaten to 2HKO every single OU pokemon except Skarmory and Landorus-T, while Kyu-B needs a third additional special move to do so, and even then it has issues with Jirachi and Forretress.
With Haxorus your opponent has a 50% chance to safely switch something in, while with Kyu-B this percentage is much higher.

Both of them can be easily be defeated if they predict wrong and get locked into Outrage, but Haxorus isn't punished as much as Kyu-B for switching in later in the match since it lacks a SR weakness.

Finally it's true that CB Kyu-B can even 2HKO steel-types with Outrage, but that doesn't help much in Scizor's case.

 

[HabibsHotDogs]

Tornadus-T is used even less than Keldeo on PO.
And actually, it's banned now.



I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. While both Haxorus and Kyu-B have unpredictability on their side (Haxorus could be running a boosting set, while Kyu-B could be running a bulky set), Kyu-B has more "safe" initial switch-ins than Haxorus.
Haxorus only need Superpower and Outrage to threaten to 2HKO every single OU pokemon except Skarmory and Landorus-T, while Kyu-B needs a third additional special move to do so, and even then it has issues with Jirachi and Forretress.
With Haxorus your opponent has a 50% chance to safely switch something in, while with Kyu-B this percentage is much higher.

Both of them can be easily be defeated if they predict wrong and get locked into Outrage, but Haxorus isn't punished as much as Kyu-B for switching in later in the match since it lacks a SR weakness.

Finally it's true that CB Kyu-B can even 2HKO steel-types with Outrage, but that doesn't help much in Scizor's case.

As a person who has used both... I'm sure Haxorus' coverage is incredibly chitty, you don't want a pokemon to be locked into superpower OR EQ unless you absolutely have to.

Banded Haxorus is walled by forretress and skarmory vs Kyu-B walled by Forretress and Ferrothorn.. its 2 walls vs 2 walls there might be some other ones that can take 2 hits from the ice dragon (ie: full health defensive jirachi with no hazards in play for example).

EQ was useful late game against teams with levitators but no fliers, but that is really something marginally small Haxorus had over Kyu-B, its ONLY advantage otherwise was the ability to take 1x priority.

I specifically picked the two banded outragers for my tailwind teams because that way I ONLY used outrage and very rarely coverage moves (or even dual chop) because you don't need to predict when you will be ohkoing the threat or 2hkoing the switch in :)

 

[Arcticblast]

1850 stats and 1850 comparisons are out!

Interestingly, while Rain outnumbers Sand in the regular stats, Politoed's 1850 usage is about 22% while combined Hippowdon and Tyranitar usage is roughly 27%. Even when factoring in dual inducer Sand teams and Damp Rock Rain (neither of which have 1850 measures, but they can be somewhat assumed by looking at the regular stats), Sand appears to have higher usage.

 

[cjrocker]

Keldeo jumps up ten spots, Dragonite falls out of the top ten, Landorus-I and Landorus T are both in the top 15. Total Landorus usage is over 30%. These stats are very telling, I tell ye.

Also, shit, if these were the stats we used to determine tiers, OU would have 45 Pokemon. Lol@Haxorus doing worse than Stoutland, and even Bronzong.

 

[Gary]

Wow look at Reuniclus' usage!

| 37 | Reuniclus | 4.80687% | 51357 | 3.743% | 39739 | 3.595% |

Also Kyurem-C:

| 72 | Kyurem | 1.22981% | 10165 | 0.741% | 7607 | 0.688% |

These 1850 stats really show what usage a Pokemon truly deserves. Keldeo definitely deserves #2 ranking, both Landorus and Landorus-T belong in the top 20, as well as Latias. Reuniclus' usage in 1850 shows how good it truly is, jumping more then ten spots. OTR is so damn good in this metagame, and a lot of people fail to realize that. I feel like the 1850 stats are the stats that we should be basing Pokemon viability on. It's a lot more accurate to be honest.

 

[Ehrmantraut]

| 41 | Infernape | 4.10135%

Oh look hey. infernape still makes OU in 1850s.

maybe now people can stop complaining that hes only ou because of noobs.

 

[Gary]

| 41 | Infernape | 4.10135%

Oh look hey. infernape still makes OU in 1850s.

maybe now people can stop complaining that hes only ou because of noobs.

Well, it's a huge drop from 32. I think a lot of it has to do with "noob" players, but then again, Infernape still has its uses on Sun teams and as a decent user of the Choice Band. I think this usage suits Infernape well. It could be lower, but I'm one to say that Infernape isn't complete garbage in OU if you know how to use it properly.

 

[Nix_Hex]

Thank you Arcticblast for the reminder. The 1850 stats and comparisons have been linked in the OP for convenience.

 

[MatchMaster]

Glad to see Landorus-T gets much more usage in 1850 than in standard. Most noobs just see it as another choice scarf user, which it is generally outclassed as. Defensive sets are what really make it useful; they tank physical hits, while also being able to hit hard back.

 

[GCSChris]

1850 stats definitely reflect what the meta is really like.

 

[doughboy]

I find it real telling how Keldeo is #2 on the stats for 1850+ teams, but there is a 10% difference between the 1850 vs normal stats. Puts into perspective in reality how influential Keldeo is on the tier.

What I also find interesting that I think most people won't notice is the bottom of the stat change list for 1850 vs normal:

| Cloyster | -2.83203% |
| Infernape | -2.85347% |
| Espeon | -3.32698% |
| Salamence | -3.62628% |
| Jolteon | -3.80236% |
| Alakazam | -4.01363% |
| Ferrothorn | -5.09609% |
+ ------------------ + --------- +

Espeon and Infernape represent here because they are largely not very good Pokemon. Infernape's only niche is a way to take down Heatran on sun teams without relying on Duggy. Salamence and Ferrothorn represent here because I think most upper-level players have identified what niche Ferrothorn and Salamence work on, and only using it in that niche exclusively (both are still good pokes). In Ferrothorn's case, Ferrothorn is only seen on Rain-teams towards the upper ladder because it can counteract Swift Swimmers and becomes much harder to take down. If used on Sand or weatherless teams, Ferrothorn just falls prey to shoehorn'ed HP Fire's on Pokemon, but not on Rain. The HP Fire problem, a large deterent to upper-level usage, still hasn't completely seeped down to the lower ladder where Ferrothorn can commonly be found on Sand and weatherless. Salamence is a bit harder to explain, but I think the reason for its downturn in usage is the same as discussed earlier here. Stiff competition from new Dragons and that sexy 24% usage of Keldeo, which MANY (maybe the majority) of them are Scarf'ed, explain Salamence's comparative drop. I can't forget that overall higher Landorus-T usage as well (6%+ more than normal stats).

 

[Erico9001]

Espeon and Infernape represent here because they are largely not very good Pokemon.

Maybe on the wrong teams. I've swept many teams with my espeon (not baton passing), so I know this is just untrue. It's not the pokemon that is bad, just how people are using it...

 

[Halcyon.]

Maybe on the wrong teams. I've swept many teams with my espeon (not baton passing), so I know this is just untrue. It's not the pokemon that is bad, just how people are using it...

If you mean that you're using Calm Mind Espeon to sweep teams, I would ask you why you aren't using Latias, which, while slightly less powerful, is significantly bulkier, has better resistances, and access to reliable recovery. Even CM sweepers like Reuniclus and Meloetta do a better job sweeping than Espeon, in my opinion. Espeon is way too weak defensively. It's too easy to revenge kill, even after boosts. For example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 177-208 (48.62 - 57.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 244-288 (90.03 - 106.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there are much better CM sweepers out there, and part of what makes them good is their better survivability.

 

[Lavos]

on the 1850 stat comparison:

| Donphan | -2.09601% |
thank you donphan sucks and good players realize that

| Gliscor | -2.25169% |
outclassed by lando-t for the most part, which sees a noticeably large increase in usage for the 1850 stats. another change that would have been anticipated if you play ou at a high level

| Infernape | -2.85347% |
once again, bad pokemon get used less by the better players

| Espeon | -3.32698% |
whoever said this is a great cm sweeper definitely does not play good opponents. espeon gets stopped by so many things it's not even funny, and if you're running hp fire, go ahead and add another three checks to espy's already long list.

| Salamence | -3.62628% |
mence never gets more than one kill vs an offensive team since everyone runs scarf rachi, keldeo, or terrakion, all of which can revenge mence easily

| Jolteon | -3.80236% |
why even use this thing when thundurus-t exists (rhetorical question calm down kids)

| Alakazam | -4.01363% |
huh? maybe this is due to the rise in jirachi usage but i don't understand what drove zam down so many places other than that. it makes a great revenge killer for some of the top sweepers right now such as keldeo, terrakion, breloom, and landorus. it even outspeeds scarf ttar which is a big plus. weird.

if you look at the top 15 or so pokemon whose usage stats increased the most in the 1850 stats comparison, those are basically the top pokemon in ou right now. stuff like keldeo, jirachi, lando-t, celebi, terrakion, ttar, lando, loom, lati@s, poli, hippo, and chomper all rose significantly in usage among better-ranked players. to me this indicates that the metagame has finally centralized itself around this group of pokemon, plus a few more that didn't see noticeable increases because everyone realizes how good they are. i guess the stat comparison just goes to show how terrible regular usage stats are for the purpose of evaluating metagame trends

 

[vyomov]

Completely agree with Lavos's post, Zam should see more usage.
Salamence has evolved, with the new dragons in OU and the excessive numbers of scarfers, Scarf Mence is simply no longer viable, outclassed by the tons of scarfers in OU like Jirachi, Terrakion, etc. However, it still does REALLY well at late-game cleanups, so hopefully people will start using MixMence more and it will rise again from the ashes(albeit in a different role)

Another mon I liked seeing go down was Ninetales. There were SO many better candidates for Drought but GameFreak screwed Sun over by giving Drought to Ninetales.
Honestly, outside Sun Ninetales is useless, meaning Politoed(which just HAPPENS to be one of the good mons in OU) kills it over.
Even inside sun, Heatran walls it to death and can set up SR while Ninetales switches out.

 

[ciaranroy]

I can't believe the hate for Kyurem-B in this current meta. It's my favourite pokemon due to its ability to just run through both stall and offensive teams with its mixed capabilities. I expected much higher usage amongst the top players because I thought they would recognise just how good it actually is.

Completely shocked at Alakazam too, as its just so versatile and makes a brilliant offensive glue and is almost guaranteed a kill a game when played right. I've let Scizor get to +6 before, and just come in and instantly revenges it with Alakazam. IMO, the best revenger in OU at the moment.

Appreciating the support for Landorus-T, as its an amazing pivot, both offensively and defensively.

Celebi getting the usage it deserves too. It'll be a top 10 pokemon soon, if it keeps rising so quickly.

Laughing at Donphan, Infernape and Jolteon. They suck.

Also, Kings Rock Cloyster deserves a mention as it is actually good (I said it). Now that Lavos used it in that warstory to great effect, its gonna be everywhere. Screw you Lavos. My teams weak to it.

 

[Gokuzbu]

| 186 | Gardevoir | 0.16578% | 7718 | 0.562% | 6155 | 0.557%

You darn fools! Not using the greatest poke in this meta. For shame

Agreed about Alakazam needing more usage. He is pretty incredible at what he does. However he's only really good at revenge killing with a focus sash, and without a life orb he can lack power. He is also walled depending on the moves used. Still love him to bits though, and is a staple on my teams.

 

[Erico9001]

If you mean that you're using Calm Mind Espeon to sweep teams, I would ask you why you aren't using Latias, which, while slightly less powerful, is significantly bulkier, has better resistances, and access to reliable recovery. Even CM sweepers like Reuniclus and Meloetta do a better job sweeping than Espeon, in my opinion. Espeon is way too weak defensively. It's too easy to revenge kill, even after boosts. For example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 177-208 (48.62 - 57.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 244-288 (90.03 - 106.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there are much better CM sweepers out there, and part of what makes them good is their better survivability.

I don't run a standard set. I am heavily invested in defensive ev's. Espeon over latios because Espeon is my counter to status and hazards.

I have my Espeon set posted here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4702934&postcount=378
I would actually be happy if Scizor switched in to my espeon. Usually they use bug bite anyways, not bullet punch, since they don't expect hp fire.

 

[Lavos]

Also, Kings Rock Cloyster deserves a mention as it is actually good (I said it). Now that Lavos used it in that warstory to great effect, its gonna be everywhere. Screw you Lavos. My teams weak to it.

for the record i used king's rock cloyster in world cup prelims last year so this isn't a new thing

sadly it obtained 0 flinches but i still won both the games i used it in cos clam

out of interest, what is your fourth move?

ice shard. loom sucks and i want it to know that

 

[Lork]

interesting to see infernape is top 50 even in 1850 stats.

for the record i used king's rock cloyster in world cup prelims last year so this isn't a new thing

sadly it obtained 0 flinches but i still won both the games i used it in cos clam

out of interest, what is your fourth move?