Gen V STABmons

[Harbinger of Peace]

Here are some notable threats that I've thought up. A brief summary of each. I'm just gonna mention the new toys these pokemon get.

Landorus

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Notable new moves- Hurricane, Aeroblast, Brave Bird, Roost
Landorus is already a scary pokemon in OU, being able to fire off powerful Sheer Force boosted special attacks, abuse the sand with the powerful Edge-Quake combo, and more. But, with the addition of Hurricane to it's already vast movepool, it can now abuse the rain with a super-powerful Sheer Force boosted Hurricane. Hurricane is Landorus's strongest STAB, and it rips gaping holes in pokemon that don't resist. A Rock Polish set is one of the best ways to abuse the powerful Hurricane. Aeroblast is a weaker, but more accurate alternative to Hurricane if you plan on using Landorus outside of rain, and Roost grants Landorus reliable recovery, but you probably won't use this much.

Infernape

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Notable new moves- V-Create, Sacred Sword, Blue Flare, Fiery Dance, Hi-Jump-Kick
Infernape got quite a bit of amazing new moves, being able to abuse special and psychical moves. On the psychical side, there is Hi-Jump-Kick and V-Create, two insanely powerful attacks, and on the special side, there is Blue Flare, Sacred Sword, and Fiery Dance. These moves could be abused very well on a scarf set. Fiery Dance can turn Infernape into a Special-Moxie pokemon, and V-Create and Hi-Jump-Kick are brutally scary on their own. Infernape can also abuse it's powerful fire moves in the sun, which seems to be a pretty dominating weather with Sawsbuck running around. Infernape can also be very tricky to wall now, as it is unpredictable, and can possibly run a mixed set. This Ape packs a lot of powerful moves, and is something to look out for.

I'll post some more later.

 

[Champion Steve]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned it, but Psychic mons have access to Heart Swap. (Sash?) Espeon or Celebi might be useful in stealing sweeps, since both have access to Baton Pass.

Also, while playing earlier, I got swept 4-0 because of a Bibarel Smash Pass. Then, on the rematch, I led with Golurk and got a 6-0 win. It seems to me that it might be best to have a list on the OP of the most dangerous threats with some counters that have been found.

 

[EV]

Stored Powerrrr

:D

-

Also, while playing earlier, I got swept 4-0 because of a Bibarel Smash Pass. Then, on the rematch, I led with Golurk and got a 6-0 win. It seems to me that it might be best to have a list on the OP of the most dangerous threats with some counters that have been found.

Ok. I will clean up and add to Threatlist tonight and tomorrow. Everyone keep adding sets they've tested so I can incorporate them.

I'm going to talk to Joim about getting this in the Lab.

 

[Harbinger of Peace]

I've recently had some success with Baton Passing. I threw some pokes together to try making a BP chain, leading to a Golurk sweep. It was a lot of fun to use, and it did well... But Golurk was countered by another Golurk, and that was the end of that. But, my Baton Pass team still fought to the end. Watch the Replay to see how everything played out. My opponent was Lost Shiny.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokecommunity-customgame-39286

And I hope no one copies my strategy, lol

 

[Manectrifier]

I've been looking around for some checks to Sawsbuck, and I got some decent ones. First of all, when Sawsbuck decides to run Horn Leech, Scizor and Cobalion can take a hit and OHKO back. Outside of sun, Terrakion is a decent check too because he outspeeds and OHKO's with whatever fighting attack it runs. Sableye is a very decent check with a prankster dark void and immunity to Extremespeed, but has to watch out for a possible lum berry that Sawsbuck carries just for that Sableye. Skarmory is a good wall, but as the meta is very offensive, I'd use a different check.
A very good offensive check is Aerodactyl. The only problem is the ev spread. Aero needs 140 Def ev's to guarantee that he lives a +6 Extremespeed from Sawsbuck (assuming a neutral attack nature and no power-increasing items such as life orb). However, Aero also needs full investment in speed, because 252 speed with a positive nature lets him outspeed Scarf Politoed, which is kinda a big deal. So that would mean you only have 116 left for attack, which isn't that much, and might leave out on several KO's. So what do you think? What is the best spread for Aero?

Finally, arguably the best method of countering Sawsbuck is stalling Extremespeed's PP out. Of the top of my head, Zapdos, Aero, Suicune and Weavile can protect for it to lose 2 pp with pressure, but some of them aren't very viable in Stabmons. However, with smart play, a player can stall out a Sawsbuck with Spiritomb. Switching it in on an Extremespeed, then switching out to for example Zapdos on the Horn Leech, protecting on the ES, and then switching to Spiritomb again. However you'll need to have some luck as well as proper prediction when stalling out Sawsbuck this way. You're probably better off using Scizor or something.
Something else: Gyara is actually very good in this meta. I used CB with Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Brave Bird and Sleep Talk. Good sleep absorber, can sweep through teams with rain boosted CB Moxie Aqua Jets and is a good check for Landorus, Garchomp and Aerodactyl.

Oh, and lastly: Whimsicott rocks in this meta. Opponents will rip their hair out seeing it enter the field with Spore/Leech seed/Seed Flare/Encore. Encore is amazing in this meta, it just cripples so many things.

Anyway, cool meta, hope this'll be the next OM of the month!

 

[SpartanMalice]

I think Salac Swords Dance Terrakion with Head Smash instead of Stone Edge has some potential. Same accuracy, but with more power, and recoil. The recoil from Head Smash should bring it to Salac range pretty fast, and if there's nothing out there that resists fighting moves, just spam Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick. Risky strategy though due to the recoil.

 

[Mr Omgness]

For the Threat List: Sableye now has priority Dark Void & WoW and is immune to ESpeed (unless it's a Scrappy user), meaning it can stop pretty much any sweeper.

It is definitely one of the mons that have an impact on the meta. A lot of offensive pokes cannot start their mayhem as long as Sableye is in play.

 

[BlankZero]

For the Threat List: Sableye now has priority Dark Void & WoW and is immune to ESpeed (unless it's a Scrappy user), meaning it can stop pretty much any sweeper.

It is definitely one of the mons that have an impact on the meta. A lot of offensive pokes cannot start their mayhem as long as Sableye is in play.

Flareon stops it though.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Sableye has access to both priority Destiny Bond and Dark Void as well in addition to taunt, meaning it has three ways to shut down sweepers and a good recovery move.

Edit: Might as well add Foul Play there, but it isn't priority so yeah.

 

[Iamlegendshot66]

Can sawsbuck be banned as it is so OP.

 

[Mr Omgness]

Flareon stops it though.

How does Flareon bypass Dark Void unless Sleep Clause is already activated? Only option is to run Sleep Talk in which case it would have to run a Choice Set.

Choice Scarf Guts boosted Flareon could do some work with Sleep Talk yes, but again I think there are better abusers of this strategy.

Like SpartanMalice said, Sableye also got access to priority Destiny Bond; I forgot about that one. Sableye is as annoying as ever in this meta and can stop a lot of this meta's powerhouses in their tracks.

Scrappy Kangashkan could serve as a good physical attacker that can bypass Sableye's Prankster with Extremespeed. But after one Shell Smash Max Attack Kangashkan's Extremespeed does 66-78% to Max HP/Max Defense Sableye. So even with SR up it doesnt OHKO. So Sableye would have to be weakened or Kangashkan can only reliably defeat Sableye if it Belly Drums on the switch.

 

[vyomov]

Magmortar is actually one of the best ways to stop the Sableye and Sawsbuck Shenanigans... especially since it now gets Blue Flare and Fiery Dance. Alternatively, Magmortar can run Searing Shot, which hits hard and ALSO has a good chance to burn.
Flareon Guts-boosted V-Create is now one of the HARDEST hitting moves in the game.
Terrakion now gets... HEAD SMASH!!! MWAHAHAHA! That means that Terrakion can sweep a mon or two with Close Combat and then suicide with Head Smash, OHKOing anything neutral.

 

[PokeGyarados]

Finally, a meta with Acrobatics Gyarados! It's like the dream I had of Gen VI but will never happen!

On a different note, here's something that may look VERY familiar to UU players:

Aerodactyl @ Life Orb
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
-Brave Bird
-Head Smash
-Taunt
-Roost

Looking familiar? This is essentially Crobat's wallbreaker set in UU, but with Rock Head and Head Smash to rip apart anything that doesn't resist it alongside Brave Bird, which is the attack that I spam a lot. Taunt stops many moves that tanks often use (i.e. Spore), while Roost heals off SR and Life Orb recoil.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Yeah and it has access to Prankster recover as well Omgness, meaning if it can survive a hit and put something to sleep, it can gain all that lost HP back.

The choice of a prankster depends on how you want your team to play I suppose. Whimsicott doesnt have an Espeed immunity, but it has access to a 100% sleep move and lots of options from its normal moveset. Sableye has access to the moves I mentioned earlier, but has a chance of missing Dark Void. It's the same accuracy as Stone Miss. This can be fixed with Hone Claws but that'd be a waste of a moveslot.

Flareon's biggest let down is it's speed, Infernape can hit and run with V-Create due to its high speed, and Darmanitan can do a lot of damage, with both V-Create and Sheer Force Sacred Fire. Actually, I did some calcs and V-create actually hits harder than Sheer Force boosted Sacred Fire.

I think Kanga/Miltank are best used as defensive pokes with rapid spin, since they can spin through ghosts, and have access to reliable recovery moves like Milk Drink. Miltank can use Sap Sipper as well.

I've been wondering about running Hi Jump Kick on Terra as opposed to CC. In sand, this might actually let it survive some hits, but the accuracy and possible recoil is a problem. I still think Salac Terra is a good option with Head Smash since you get the salac boost faster.

 

[Mr Omgness]

After some more games:

- Gyarados is really great in this meta. I use a defensive set with Intimidate and it counters a plethora of things (hi Shift Gearers). With it's access to Roost now it has become a great wall. But Offensive-wise it finally gets Brave Bird/Acrobatics & Aqua Jet, and I've seen it work. Flying Gem Acrobatics can result in a Moxie boost which may well spell your doom.

- IMO, Metagross outclasses Scizor in the Shift Gear Set. Actually, all Metagross' stats are higher than Scizor's. Scizor gets walled by one of this meta's biggest threats: Keldeo. Metagross doesnt care a thing about it with it's Zen Headbutt. Scizor is forced to run Superpower to deal with Heatran, which gives it an Attack and Defense drop, Metagross has Earthquake. Clear Body may not be as good as an ability but makes sure that Metagross isnt harmed by Intimidate abuse.

About the speed: After one shift gear Metagross outspeeds Scarf Keldeo, which Scizor doesnt.

Metagross just has better coverage than Scizor does. Scizor's Technician Gear Grind and lack of an Earth Weakness is the only thing that sets it apart. But Scizor gets countered much easier.

- Actually I think Scizor's CB Set is a better choice. Whereas the Shift Gear aims for a late game sweep the CB set can start mayhem early in the game by firing off Gear Grinds. U-Turn/Superpower/Gear Grind/Bullet Punch is the setup that I prefer. U-turn can give you the edge while dealing good damage, Scizor wont mind the Superpower drops as much and CB Gear Grind can do some work. The CB set can wear down your opponent's pokes early game. It also allows you to invest into HP which gives it some more bulk that it might need to revenge threats later on with BP.

- Transform Chansey/Blissey is a real big threat and you better keep that in mind when you see one. An Eviolite Chansey transforming into a Latias, Ferrothorn (oh god help us) or Sawsbuck is no thing to underestimate.


EDIT: Actually if pre-evo STABs are taken into consideration, Scizor gets Brave Bird/Acrobatics which solves it problems with Keldeo. Altho it would need 2 SG boosts to outspeed Scarf Keldeo.

 

[SpartanMalice]

We were talking about Tail Glow passing in the lab earlier with Sash Prankster Volbeat, but I actually think Sash Speed Boost Yanmega can do a better job with this. I normally don't like BP teams much, but this could be a decent strategy. Basically, set up first, survive with sash, then pass it to a poke with access to sleep and baton pass, like Celebi or Regigigas, since they can both take hits with a defensive spread, then pass to Keldeo. at 2.5x Water Spout is deadly, and so is Secret Sword. The reason why I'm saying Yanmega is better is because Jellicent walls a Scarfed Keldeo stuck with a water or fighting move. But with access to a speed boost from Yanmega AND tail glow, Keldeo can run an expert belt set instead (because Life Orb makes Spout weaker, and 2.5x is plenty anyway) with Hidden Power Electric to counter Jellicent and Gyarados and probably Icy Wind or some other filler. It's a one shot though, but this could be a potentially effective strategy if someone pulls it off right.

 

[Mr Omgness]

Yanmega cant BP ;).

 

[SpartanMalice]

Oh. My bad, thought it could learn BP. Technically you can still do it with Ninjask over Volbeat though. But I guess Prankster could still work.

On a side note, Blissey has access to Lovely Kiss, Aromatherapy, Perish Song, and a recovery move. It could do Celebi's job while being able to tank special hits just the same. It helps that it has a normal typing as opposed to Grass/Psychic. I usually use Celebi, but I'm gonna give this a try and see how it works.

 

[toxicroaker]

dont know if anyone has stated this but whimsicott is boss support with prankster spore and aromatheropy to bad no baton pass tho T-T

 

[Harbinger of Peace]

After some more games:

- Gyarados is really great in this meta. I use a defensive set with Intimidate and it counters a plethora of things (hi Shift Gearers). With it's access to Roost now it has become a great wall. But Offensive-wise it finally gets Brave Bird/Acrobatics & Aqua Jet, and I've seen it work. Flying Gem Acrobatics can result in a Moxie boost which may well spell your doom.

- IMO, Metagross outclasses Scizor in the Shift Gear Set. Actually, all Metagross' stats are higher than Scizor's. Scizor gets walled by one of this meta's biggest threats: Keldeo. Metagross doesnt care a thing about it with it's Zen Headbutt. Scizor is forced to run Superpower to deal with Heatran, which gives it an Attack and Defense drop, Metagross has Earthquake. Clear Body may not be as good as an ability but makes sure that Metagross isnt harmed by Intimidate abuse.

About the speed: After one shift gear Metagross outspeeds Scarf Keldeo, which Scizor doesnt.

Metagross just has better coverage than Scizor does. Scizor's Technician Gear Grind and lack of an Earth Weakness is the only thing that sets it apart. But Scizor gets countered much easier.

- Actually I think Scizor's CB Set is a better choice. Whereas the Shift Gear aims for a late game sweep the CB set can start mayhem early in the game by firing off Gear Grinds. U-Turn/Superpower/Gear Grind/Bullet Punch is the setup that I prefer. U-turn can give you the edge while dealing good damage, Scizor wont mind the Superpower drops as much and CB Gear Grind can do some work. The CB set can wear down your opponent's pokes early game. It also allows you to invest into HP which gives it some more bulk that it might need to revenge threats later on with BP.

- Transform Chansey/Blissey is a real big threat and you better keep that in mind when you see one. An Eviolite Chansey transforming into a Latias, Ferrothorn (oh god help us) or Sawsbuck is no thing to underestimate.


EDIT: Actually if pre-evo STABs are taken into consideration, Scizor gets Brave Bird/Acrobatics which solves it problems with Keldeo. Altho it would need 2 SG boosts to outspeed Scarf Keldeo.

Although Metagross has better stats than Scizor, Scizor still hits very hard with it's STAB technician boosted Gear Grind, which hits 225 BP, compared to 150 on Metagross. Here are some calcs:

Ok, so I just took a bulky normal type pokemon to compare the move strengths without type resistance. I chose max Def. Regigigas.


Metagross

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Zen Headbutt: 53.77 - 63.2% Earthquake: 44.57 - 52.59% Gear Grind: 66.98 - 79.24%

+3 252 Atk Metagross Gear Grind vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regigigas: 284-336 (66.98 - 79.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(284, 288, 290, 294, 296, 300, 302, 308, 312, 314, 318, 320, 324, 326, 330, 336)

Scizor

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Bullet Punch: 39.15 - 46.22% Gear Grind: 97.64 - 115.09% Bug Bite: 58.25 - 68.86%

+3 252 Atk Technician Scizor Gear Grind vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regigigas: 414-488 (97.64 - 115.09%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
(414, 420, 422, 428, 434, 438, 444, 446, 452, 458, 462, 468, 474, 476, 482, 488)

So, it's easy to see thats Scizor can hit quite a bit harder with it's STAB moves than Metagross. Although Metagross has better coverage options and more speed, Scizor has better power and better priority. So, it's just a personal preference I suppose. There both really good to me.

 

[EV]

Can sawsbuck be banned as it is so OP.

At the moment, we are still finding out footing with this meta. I talked to Joim and he's working on the mod for his Lab. Sawsbuck might be our first ban, though. It is pretty centralizing.

-

On another note, I'm opening up testing for pre-evo STAB combinations!

From post #56:

Possible changes:
Bellossom would get Poison moves (Gloom).
Steelix would get Rock moves (Onix).
Scizor would get Flying moves (Scyther).
Eeveelutions would get Normal moves (Eevee).
Marill/Azumarill would get Normal moves (Azurill).
Tyranitar would get Ground moves (Pupitar).
Masquerain would get Water moves (Surskit).
Ninjask and Shedinja would get Ground moves (Nincada).
Altaria would get Normal moves (Swablu).
Drapion would get Bug moves (Skorupi).
Rotom formes would get Ghost moves (Rotom). They would NOT get other forme's moves, so no Spore Rotom-W.

[Theorymoning] Would this affect the game a lot? Is Shell Smash Azumarill too dangerous (albeit we already have Belly Drum)? Or Shell Smashing Eeveelutions? Think about it.

Who benefits the most? Is Azumarill scarier than Sawsbuck now?

Things to consider:
-Scizor can run Acrobatics and Brave Bird. As Mr Omgness said, this will help it counter certain mons like Keldeo (with enough Speed, tho).
-The Eeveelutions all have access to Shell Smash, Belly Drum, Recover, etc along with their other STAB. SmashPower Espeon, as I've already brought up, might make a splash thanks to status immunity from Magic Bounce (for the most part) STAB Stored Power, and coverage in Shadow Ball and HP Fighting/Judgment. But what about Leafeon? It now gets Spore+Belly Drum+ExtremeSpeed too, albeit without STAB, but can run Chlorophyll and has a fat Defense and no weakness to Mach Punch.
-Tyranitar, Ninjask, and Shedinja can run Spikes.
-Altaria gets all Normal moves. Does the cloud dragon have what it takes to be a threat?
-Drapion gets Bug attacks like U-turn and Heal Order.
-The Rotoms get all Ghost moves. D-bond, Hex, and Night Shade may play out somehow.

 

[SpartanMalice]

The best advantage Metagross has though is the ability to hit Keldeo, who is a big threat in this meta. However, if you can get one Gear Shift up, Scizor can possibly OHKO Keldeo as well.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Gear Grind vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 192-226 (59.25 - 69.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Gear Grind vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 286-340 (88.27 - 104.93%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

Superpower does about the same amount of Damage. Scizor can't outspeed Keldeo at +2 though, so it might be good idea to use Bullet Punch to weaken it's Water Spout first.

On the other hand Metagross outsped my Scarfed Keldeo at +2 and KO'd with Zen Headbutt. Either one is good IMO, I guess it depends on the rest of your team.

 

[canno]

The best advantage Metagross has though is the ability to hit Keldeo, who is a big threat in this meta. However, if you can get one Gear Shift up, Scizor can possibly OHKO Keldeo as well.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Gear Grind vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 192-226 (59.25 - 69.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Gear Grind vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 286-340 (88.27 - 104.93%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

Superpower does about the same amount of Damage. Scizor can't outspeed Keldeo at +2 though, so it might be good idea to use Bullet Punch to weaken it's Water Spout first.

On the other hand Metagross outsped my Scarfed Keldeo at +2 and KO'd with Zen Headbutt. Either one is good IMO, I guess it depends on the rest of your team.

Metagross can also deal with Steel-types without having to lower it's Attack, allowing it to sweep easier vs teams with more than one steel-type.

But yeah, whichever one you use depends on your team.

I would also like to mention another Shift Gear user - Bisharp. While not as bulky or strong as the others, it is faster that Scizor and has access to Dark Void. Any thoughts on this?

 

[SpartanMalice]

While Dark Void is interesting Bisharp's 4x weakness to fighting makes it kinda risky considering all the fighting moves around, especially Mach Punch which can get rid of it even after a Shift Gear. That being said I like Bisharp, he's a badass pokemon and it would cool to see it get more usage.

@Eevee General, Azumarill is definitely a threat, whether you run Choice Band or Belly Drum with Extremespeed. The plus side is it doesn't get Normal STAB like Sawsbuck, and since it's slow, other Espeed users will go first. However, I did some calcs and Azumarill can survive an Unboosted from Extremespeed while Sawsbuck can't survive Choice Band Extremespeed. And Belly Drum (which is a move I'm sure he already knows) obviously wrecks.

Altaria seems like it could be powerful as well, but with lower stats than other dragons I think it can be taken out comparatively easily, especially since it doesn't get any Normal STAB. Ninjask could probably benefit from Spikes, it's basically a faster Accelgor. With sash it can get at least two layers of Spikes.

As for Eevelutions, good luck surviving hits from Jolteon if it gets Shell Smash. Both his Special Attack and Speed Stats exceed 700 after a smash, meaning the best way to kill it is with priority. Same goes for Espeon. They're both frail on the physical side however, so you'd have to be careful. Flareon no longer has to worry about speed and could potentially hit harder than Darmanitan.

Edit: I wonder how Toxicroak would fare in this meta. Coil is basically a better Bulk Up that also boosts accuracy. Previously the best Toxicroak could learn was Cross Chop, and it normally runs Drain Punch for recovery, but it now it gets Hi Jump Kick and Close Combat. Coil boosts HJK's accuracy to 100% while also providing it with an attack and defense boost. It also gets Gunk Shot, but I'd figure it wouldn't need that much since Poison is a bad offensive type, and Ice Punch-Sucker Punch are better options anyway.

 

[Manitary]

- Transform Chansey/Blissey is a real big threat and you better keep that in mind when you see one. An Eviolite Chansey transforming into a Latias, Ferrothorn (oh god help us) or Sawsbuck is no thing to underestimate.

I also thought about those sets, but is Eviolite defense buff still retained upon transforming into a fully-evolved pokemon?

If it doesn't work, Transform Blissey is still interesting: come into a special attacker and transform into a Blissey counter but with more HP